Apologies Not Accepted!

I once had a friend named Mickey. He was a great guy, though underappreciated at the time. Like so many friends who grow up and part ways, we don’t see each other anymore. Oh, how the ages fly by—that is one lesson you learn from life. But I learned another, a more important lesson from my friend Mickey.

Mickey was one of a kind. He would come over and lounge around the house with the rest of us kids who occupied ourselves with less-than-constructive activities all summer long. We had great fun, but more than anything, Mickey got on our nerves because he broke half the things he touched. He was like “Chunk” from The Goonies.

He once stepped on our cat while walking upstairs. Another time, he crushed two Christmas lights that lit the walkway to our house. He broke two expensive lawn chairs by leaning back too far in them—and these are just a few things. Cassette tapes, tools, and dishes also came to be demolished with the calamitous touch of this oversized, Snickers-eating chum. Mickey was a Class-A klutz.

But Mickey was funny; just after every little mishap, he would say, breathing heavily and in a nerdy, fat boy’s voice, ”Oh, uh, sorry! I’ll pay for it!” He had a few other yucky tendencies too, like sweating profusely all over everything – and farting with the force of a category-1 hurricane – but this was all harmless fun in retrospect. It was actually hysterical. Mickey was a good guy. He still is, I hear.

But the other thing I learned from Mickey was that God must also be a pale-skinned, clumsy, fat kid with an eating disorder and a gland problem. No, just kidding. What I really learned from Mickey was that sometimes saying, “I’m sorry,” is not enough! When Mickey broke an expensive piece of stereo equipment we owned, mom and dad were furious. It took more than an apology to fix what was done—it took money from Mickey’s mom, which we got.

Now an apology is only good when it is followed by a resolution not to commit the same offense again. In Mickey’s case, he improved a little, but then again, he was still Mickey and always would be (what are you going to do, right?). As was the case with Mickey’s meaningless apologies, so it is with Christians and Christianity. We infidels get lots and lots of apologies for Christian shortcomings, but these apologies are totally un-redeemable.

My inbox is filled with emails from evangelical Christians making apologies for this, that, and the other. It’s always something as they apologize that I rejected Christianity without having a chance to know the “real Jesus,” that I was “soil with little root,” that I was ruined to Christianity by the radical Church of Christ from which I came, that I was not raised in or around family or friends of religion x, that I was driven away from the church by “cruel and divisive brethren,” that I was not taught well in preaching school, that I never had anyone take me to see a “real miracle,” that I was hurt inside from a personal tragedy, etc. The list is incredibly long.

Every step of the way, Christians are apologizing for something—for everyone else’s failures and for their own, but never for their deity’s failures. The apologies don’t mean a thing because no improvements can be made. Apologies for “bad Christians” are worthless because human nature is what it is. Humans will keep making the mistakes they make. There is nothing that can be done about that. And what about apologies from God? Well, of course, we get no apologies from that mystical being. God (if he existed) would owe the human race the biggest apology of all for bringing us into such an abhorrent existence. However, because the God of the Bible is like a big chemical company who refuses to be culpable for poisoning a small community’s water supply, you’ll get no apology from him. Allowing sick babies to stay on ventilators may move you and I to tears, but it doesn’t move God. So don’t expect an apology of any kind.

And what do we get in place of apologies from God? We get from Christians the ever popular “we’re all sinners” contention. That sickening gab never ceases to weary me. I’m tired of Christians apologizing for their failures, for the church’s failures (both today and in the past), for my supposed failures, for my parent’s supposed failures, for my preaching school’s supposed failures, and for the alleged failures of the whole human race. I want accountability, damnit, not meaningless apologies! Christians, your apologies are NOT accepted! And don’t tell me that you’re sorry I feel that way!

(JH)

34 comments:

Manifesting Mini Me (MMM) said...

Trust is not the same thing as demanding....

Manifesting Mini Me (MMM) said...

oops - I meant to say, forming trust is not the same thing as making demands. The latter seems easier to do than the former though.

Joe E. Holman said...

Uh, please try and make application!

(JH)

Bill said...

MMM, huh? I don't see how this ties in with the article.

Don Martin said...

Joe, right on! And here is more...because christians are forgiven by god for their sins, they have no motivation (except that standard "for the glory of god") to try and get things right. To actually pay attention to the issue behind the issues and address it...which is the total unreasonableness of their faith.

goprairie said...

The whole imnperfect human thing plays loud here. Well, humans are NOT imperfect. Humans have been pruned and shaped by evolution to be perfectly adaptable and intelligent and social. Humans ARE driven by conflicting instincts to hide from predators yet be in the open to be able to partake of the opportunity of passing prey, of finding and keeping a mate yet being domestic to rear children, of staying in one place to build and develop yet move around enough to allow the earth to recover from out use. Those conflicting instincts and conflicting needs make us seem imperfect and make us constantly make decisions, but we are perfectly adaptable and able to learn and invent and do amazing things. We should take pride in what has been done and continues to be done by humans and not pass the 'sinners' paradigm to another generation.
Humans invented religion and therefore it is filled with conflicting ideas and it is time we grew out of it. It was invented to explain thngs we could not explain and science can explain most of them now. We do not need it anymore. We can focus all that energy on other things like science to explain the gaps that are still there. And there may be things our mind cannot yet get a handle on so may not BE able to explain, but we can be mature enough to LIVE with some uncertainty and not invent some strange myth to account for it. We can stop hoping for a better life in the hereafter and work to make THIS one better for ourselves and our kids and our kids kids and all those around us and them.
Getting dizzy, must get down off soapbox . . .

AIGBusted said...

You grew up Church of Christ? Oh my god, so did I!! Was church the kind that was extremely by the bible (even to the point of not having a piano)? Mine was.

Manifesting Mini Me (MMM) said...

Oh, thanks for the awareness alert.

What I meant is this: Joe wrote, "I want accountability damnit! Not meaningless apologies!"

Faith is not about making demands -it's the opposite - for me, it's about increasing my capacity to trust in a God Who can be trusted to not be abusive with power.

There is a counter story to yours. It involves a person who, like Mickey, is prone to being uncoordinated and, also like Mickey, can bump and stumble about, causing some things to break.

But, unlike your friend Mickey, this person visited a house where the owners valued her more than the items she broke (expensive teacups). Instead of demanding compensation, the owners of the home reassured her that she was more valued than the teacups that were accidentally broken. Knowing that their words were not totally believed, one of the owners finally picked up an unbroken teacup and smashed it to the floor to let her know for certain, no doubts, that they meant what they said.

At any rate, I like these stories, but I believe that rather than infecting this world with abhorrence, God allows grace for us to learn not to act abhorrently.

I believe He allows grace for us to come to understand all sorts of suffering that we cooperate with - even disbelieving and blaming Him.

Thanks, Take care!

Anonymous said...

MMM but don't you see how that no matter what the problem is, Christians never entertain the possibility that God is partially to blame? Isn't the President responsible for his policies? Isn't a CEO held accountable for how a company goes? Surely they are, even granting human beings free will, and yet they lack the omnipotence God does to help insure things go his way.

Tell you what, answer my recent question about torturing and killing witches here, or slavery here, or about the Inquisition here.

Answer me "yes" or "no": Is God partially to blame for this or not?

Jason said...

This looks like just another non-debunking rant. Nice.

Shygetz said...

This looks like just another non-debunking rant. Nice.

This looks like just another meaningless compaint from jason. Typical.

Jason said...

Not so meaningless that you couldn't resist responding ;)

jakel said...

"bringing us into such an abhorrent existence"

Do you have an abhorrent existence?

Caleb said...

Spare us the red herrings, David. Twenty-five thousand children will die of starvation today alone. And in case you didn't realize, starvation is among the most extremely slow and painful natural means available by which to leave this earth.
You know full well just how disgustingly awful life in this world can be, so don't bother trying to dance your merry way around the issue by pointing out just how great we have it here in the U.S.

My apologies if I come off as overly brusque, but I have little tolerance for those who would attempt to pass off the cruelties and horrors of life so tritely.

jakel said...

Caleb,

If you despise dialog so, why are you even here?

I thought his use of "us" with "abhorrent existence" implied he had suffered greatly which is why I asked.

I don't want to minimize pain and suffering, but I also don't want minimize the good either. Ignoring good should carry the same contempt that ignoring evil would in my humble opinion.

Perhaps you can take a moment from your impatience to answer this: Can you point to another's suffering and shake your fist at God for his suffering that is not your own?

Emanuel Goldstein said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Joe E. Holman said...

Jason said...

"This looks like just another non-debunking rant. Nice."


My reply...

If, by this comment, you are expressing the belief that Aristotelian syllogisms and formally written out, long-faced treatises are the only way to attack a position, you are not as educated as you want to seem!

(JH)

Joe E. Holman said...

David said...

"I don't want to minimize pain and suffering, but I also don't want minimize the good either. Ignoring good should carry the same contempt that ignoring evil would in my humble opinion."


MY REPLY...

Stop it, please!

You're not balancing anyone's views. We've seen this a thousand times; big-headed believer thinks he can score some points for Jeebuz, so he stresses the roses of life, and thereby, takes the focus off of the thorns. Well, it won't work!

Those of us who are NOT addicted to the narcotic of faith see through such crap.

And this reply was offered in my humble opinion.

(JH)

Shygetz said...

Can you point to another's suffering and shake your fist at God for his suffering that is not your own?

Yes, it's called empathy and even rats possess it.

Caleb said...

Shygetz, you rarely fail to brighten up my day.

Jim Jordan said...

God (if he existed) would owe the human race the biggest apology of all for bringing us into such an abhorrent existence.

Speak for yourself. Why is your existence so abhorrent?

Caleb said...

Jim, we have already been over this. He made a rhetorical point that was not necessarily a reference to his personal life as it was a reference to the horrifying state of life for a massive portion of humanity. Whether or not we "have it good" here in the United States (which is not necessarily true at all times, given the depression and heartaches of even a "normal" life), there are millions of people around the globe suffering intensely on a daily basis, and I seriously doubt you have any idea what that means.

It galls me that Christians be so callous as to pretend life is this wonderful little gift from God when there are vast multitudes who experience little but torment on a daily basis. Good god, man, as I already pointed out, 25,000 children will (statistically speaking) die of starvation today, usually in an agonizingly slow, intensely painful slip into death. As a grand total, about 150,000 humans perish on a daily basis. And, according to the Good Book, the vast majority of these suffering, dying people are going to burn in hell for all eternity.
"It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." Such a beautiful promise to look forward to in this life.

Yes, what a wonderful existence the Good Lord has granted to us in his divine love and mercy. Praise be to his name forever and ever, amen.

jakel said...

Shygetz "Yes, it's called empathy and even rats possess it."

Then why do those who suffer mightily or suffer at the hands of evil not always come to the same conclusion as you? Many who suffer mightily call out to God, some even find praise for him somehow.

If you truly empathize, how could you possibly come to a different conclusion? Maybe the experience you speak of, which you obviously do not know, means something completely different altogether.

"It galls me that Christians be so callous as to pretend life is this wonderful little gift from God when there are vast multitudes who experience little but torment on a daily basis."

Maybe if they who suffer call it a wonderful little gift, you could finally put the harsh words aside and listen.

I don't really know, I have not suffered. However, I don't take it lightly as some intellectual exercise. That is clearly your position and I want no part of it.

Caleb said...

David: "I don't really know, I have not suffered. However, I don't take it lightly as some intellectual exercise. That is clearly your position and I want no part of it."

Truly? Am I the one telling those in agony that they are to simply to "rejoice in their sufferings" in some sort of sick, sado-masochistic pleasure rush?

Suffering is real, suffering is huge, and suffering is everywhere. Yet when a child loses his parents in a car wreck, he is to be somehow consoled by the knowledge that their loving God sent them to burn in hell for their disbelief. When, as I've said, thousands of children slowly starve to death on a daily basis, entering an eternity of further suffering for their lack of a saving knowledge in Christ, am I to be expected to praise God for his sovereignty, wisdom, and loving mercy?

I don't know how I could possibly reiterate this any more clearly. The problem of suffering is among the biggest problems faced by a religion that proposes an all-powerful, all-loving God, and near as I can tell it has never been even remotely adequately addressed by believers (short of hyper-Calvinists and the like who have no problem with the concept of a sadistic god deriving pleasure from dealing out torment).

Manifesting Mini Me (MMM) said...

John asked me to consider why Christians do not think about blaming God for being negligent/responsible for the world's suffering.

This observation is partially accurate in that I know people who are Christians who do not blame God but I also have an experience whereby I was encouraged by a man (who practices living as a Christian) to express anger, blame and frustration at God. My friend found relief from distress in this practice but for me it was not a good fit since I was too intimidated to challenge or approach authority with anger - so, for me, coming to faith included an overcoming in learning to trust that God has a different response towards antagonism than people regularly practice. I have come to trust that He is not abusive in His power.

I know that it is not uncommon to find a degree of relief in asserting blame in times of distress. I've practiced that myself. As a nonbeliever, I had a very difficult time with reconciling the existance of a supernatural deity with the issues you write about here - what you call the Outsider test, Jesus as the only way, scripture, etc. etc. I thought the God of Biblical description was a real jerk. Before I went to atheism, my vision of god was oftentimes a WASP with arms crossed with his back turned away from me in contempt and disdain and at other times He was simply a black void, negligent and nonexistant. Instead of blaming this god, I simply erased him from existance (which actually turned out to be a good thing).

The ditch that I needed to jump was in my expectation/vision of what it means to be powerful. From my experience I understood power as a force that was either motivated or driven and usually sought to replicate/clone itsself. I never thought of power as an expression that would be the catalyst for freedom and independence with a single unifying spirit of love. It was a totally foreign concept to me that the highest degree of power could simply be the expression of creative love, void of an ulterior or motivating, malicious engine. Simply expressed for the purpose of enjoying and sharing in freedom and diversity. At first, I couldn't connect innocence with empowerment because I kept envisioning innocence to be weak and contemptible (this is how I was indoctrinated to believe and relate). "I am that I am" probably explains it as well as anything. So I believe that while God acknowledges the truth of how we are often infected with prideful power, He does say that it is not His intention to condemn those cooperating with it.

So for me, spiritual reconciliation/healing means being delivered from an offensive/defensive, victim/victimizer mindset/perspective.

I don't think I can write much more about this.

At any rate, take care and the best to you all. MMM

Manifesting Mini Me (MMM) said...

I need to expand a bit further on something I wrote that could be confusing - I wrote that it wasn't a good fit for me to blame God and then later said that I practiced placing blame in times of distress. I want to clarify that it wasn't uncommon for me to blame other people in times of stress and hurtfulness. I never considered how hurtful that whole process is - how it can incite defensiveness and shame and guilt and all sorts of unfriendly attitudes.

Okay, thanks!

Manifesting Mini Me (MMM) said...

Okay, one more thing to add - I believe in scripture, there are references made to two judges, two fathers, two lions, two thieves, etc.

The dividing line between these antagonistic views is in God's spirit and Way of love.

Shygetz said...

Then why do those who suffer mightily or suffer at the hands of evil not always come to the same conclusion as you? Many who suffer mightily call out to God, some even find praise for him somehow.

If you truly empathize, how could you possibly come to a different conclusion? Maybe the experience you speak of, which you obviously do not know, means something completely different altogether.


Empathize doesn't mean that you assume the personality of a person; it means that you feel discomfort due solely to another's discomfort. It causes me pain to see someone else in pain, which is probably a good starting point for morality in humans. So it is not surprising that different people react to suffering in different ways--we are different. Some probably do not condemn God publically because they fear repercussions--same reason North Koreans don't curse and shake their fists at Kim Jong-Il.

Some are actually less monotheistic than they pretend, thinking that God had no part in their suffering and blaming Satan in what seems to me a truly ditheistic manner.

I would guess that most are simply taught all their lives that God is their refuge in times of trouble, and therefore retreat to God without questioning where God was when the misfortune occurred.

However, I would remind you that the cliche reaction to sudden tragedy is to ask God why, not to praise Him.

jakel said...

Shygetz,

I like your response, but let me put it this way:

Let's say we put together the 200 men and women who have suffered most in the history of man in an auditorium.

Assuming before their experience, most believed in some type of God as man typically does. After their terrible experience, maybe some have turned away from their God's, maybe some have been drawn closer.

Shygetz, would you really stand in front of that group and say you empathize?

Let's say Caleb stands up in front of them and says "due to your horrible experience, I have decided there must be no god in the universe and if there is, surely he is not benevolent."

Perhaps they would say, "Caleb has it going on, he shows compassion merely by recognizing there is evil, come be our leader."

Or maybe one of them would say "My experience has not lead me to deny God, I fall at his feet. For you to use my experience to deny God's existence is arrogant and misplaced."

They might say that Joe' statement "bringing us into such an abhorrent existence" is reprehensible given his rich and easy existance.

My point is that the only thing we can learn from other's extreme suffering is what they tell us. Without the experience, we can't possibly know the meaning of it.

You would be better off saying you have suffered more than I, which is probably true. That would be a valid argument. I am rich and live an easy and blessed existence. I have no cute reply for someone who has suffered. Neither should you.

Shygetz said...

Shygetz, would you really stand in front of that group and say you empathize?

Yes, I would. It would pain me to know that they were caused pain.

Are you saying you would stand in front of them and NOT empathize? What kind of a monster would that make you?

Perhaps they would say, "Caleb has it going on, he shows compassion merely by recognizing there is evil, come be our leader."

Caleb would not be trying to show compassion in that example, he was speaking the truth. He would not be trying to be their leader, he would be speaking the truth. Do you read poetry and get upset because it didn't teach you calculus?

Or maybe one of them would say "My experience has not lead me to deny God, I fall at his feet. For you to use my experience to deny God's existence is arrogant and misplaced."

They might say that Joe' statement "bringing us into such an abhorrent existence" is reprehensible given his rich and easy existance.


Or they might dance around a maypole and have tea. How many fictional sufferers do you want to invent to make your case? Take as many as you like, I don't mind; infinity times zero still equals zero.

My point is that the only thing we can learn from other's extreme suffering is what they tell us.

That is false, and bordering on stupid. Many people in this world have never met a Holocaust survivor, never heard or read their words. Yet the example of the Holocaust has served as a historical lesson to everyone who knows the story. If you see someone get horribly burned from falling in a fire after trying to leap over it, have you learned nothing? If so, that is YOUR problem, not mine. I can make conclusions based on other's experiences, including their suffering. While I may only share it to the minor extent allowed through empathy, I am smart enough to learn from it, and I daresay you are too.

Perhaps you mean that the only deeper meaning that can be found is by the sufferer. I disagree, but let's play it your way. I will no longer attempt to draw deeper meaning from the experiences of sufferers of disease and natural disasters; you are now not allowed to find any deeper meaning from the suffering of Jesus on the Cross, or the sacrifices of the martyrs. I think that's a reasonable trade.

Notionist said...

Hi there! I just stumbled upon your blog today, and I've enjoyed it enough that I intend to read it regularly. :)

Religious people falling all over themselves to defend their god remind me a lot of those parents who blame themselves, the school, the teachers, the principal, the classmates, and all of society for their child's shortcomings. They turn a blind eye to the fact that the child is misbehaving, just as the religious turn a blind eye to the fact that their god is, in George Carlin's words, "at least incompetent." Just because something--be it a child or a god--"belongs" to them, these people will take great pains to justify any misgivings.

Problem is, the world doesn't care too much about your kid's excuses. If only religion were held to such a standard.

(On a side note, Joe, something you said in your post brings to mind a lyric from one of my favorite songs: Nine Inch Nails' "Terrible Lie." "Hey God, I think you owe me a great big apology." I think you both hit it spot-on!)

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violetta8 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
violetta8 said...

I've noticed that in your conversation you have not denied God's existence. From what I understand in you article you are trying to prove that God is a sadistic evil existence. Is that it? Well, it burdens me to hear that. Yes I understand that there are so many bad things going on, but have you noticed the more well off a person is the less they believe in God? Why is it that people who live in poverty, sickness call out more to God than those who live in their comfortable houses and drive in their fancy cars? Is it because those who now live in poverty realize that the best thing they have is life or treasure every great moment they have as if it is their last? Should that not be how we live. Yes, I know what you are thinking, what kind of life is it when you have nothing to eat or nowhere to live? Well, that is where we come in. So how about instead of ranting about how "evil" God is or how "wrong or disillusioned" Christians are because that won't bring food or shelter to those in need. Get off your asses and do something about it. Don't try to blame something on God because I am pretty sure all of you have nothing to complain about.Personally i try to thank God for all I have. I may not be driving a mercedes or wearing the ugg boots i so really wanted, but nonetheless. my life is great so instead of TALKING about how someones life may not be i try to HELP them and DO something about it