Funny...

Funny how those who boast the loudest, “I’m a patriot. I fight for freedom, God, and country” tend to support ideals that only lead to widespread oppression and fascism.

Funny how those God-believers who boast the loudest of their morality, saying “I have a foundation for my morality” are just as prone as anyone else towards immorality or moral lapses.

Funny how those who boast confidently about how Christianity has the greatest “evidences” in support of it seem to walk on egg shells, fearing day-to-day how some new scientific find may come along and crack the foundation of their faith.

Funny how those who boast greatly about “God’s great healing power” will just as surely depend upon Advil or some other pain reliever to rid themselves of the pain of an ailment.

Funny how those who boast so loudly about the “fine-tuning” of the universe have so little to say about all the ways our planet can kill us and how so much of our universe is lifeless and hostile to even the possibility of life.

Funny how those who testify most fervently about the sublime happiness that service to God brings depend on the usual 30 milligrams of Prozac a day and the latest best-selling Christian book to ease their minds of life’s many sorrows.

Funny how those who most loudly proclaim peace and religious liberty will be the most zealous to take life in the already heavily blood-soaked name of the cross.

Funny how those who publicly proclaim the truth of Christianity and tell us that we should “give to the Lord” and “sacrifice” for the kingdom’s sake are among the richest men alive.

Funny how those who tell us we should focus living lives “more abundantly” on earth are themselves focused on leaving this world for one to come.

Funny how those who tell us that the body is “the temple of the Lord” and how “God don’t make no junk!” are constantly seeking better, heavenly bodies in the resurrection.

Funny how those who talk the most about selflessness and “doing good for God” are always interested in their own destinies and putting another star in their heavenly crowns.

Funny how those who boast that “God is love” and that God “brings peace that passes all understanding” and tell us that “there is no fear in love, but perfect love casteth out fear” are always seeking to scare the populace into obedience by the merciless threat of unquenchable hellfire.

Funny indeed!

(JH)

15 comments:

Tyro said...

Does someone hear the squeaking sound of selection bias?

Considering that DC posted a case where a family did not resort to Advil for pair relief with tragic consequences, this list doesn't seem... um, what's the word, accurate.


There are real problems with Christian[ity|s] without having to engage in fallacies.

Joe E. Holman said...

Fallacies, tyro, fallacies???

Depends upon which screwball sky-worshiping sect of Christianity we're talking about, doesn't it?

This description wouldn't apply to Christian Scientists, obviously, but it would apply to the rest of Christianity when it their members go off half-cocked about God's wondrous care for his children.

(JH)

Tyro said...

Joe - I'm not contesting the fact that there are many (many!) high profile examples of these sorts of hypocrisies, and I just plucked the healing one since it was covered recently. Almost all of your points follow the same general theme of making sweeping generalizations with little substance.

Take your last point about love versus hellfire. I know many Christians don't believe in Hell or don't believe it is a place of torture but merely separation from God. I've no idea what proportion of Christians they represent, but I know they're out there and I'd bet you do to. It simply isn't accurate to say that all Christians who preach love are "always seeking to scare" us.

Fallacies, tyro, fallacies???

It is fallacious to step from these examples to generalize about all or most Christians. It is fallacious to imply that the hypocrisies of Christians affects the veracity of their claims.

I think I'm generally on your side and if I'm seeing a lot of problems, then doubtless any Christian will see them and won't be searching for any nuggets of truth. Perhaps I misunderstand your argument, or perhaps you aren't making an argument but just venting some frustration. If so, I apologize.

Manifesting Mini Me (MMM) said...

How about boasting about the grace for people who are indeed imperfect?? and how about boasting about grace for people whose imperfection is compulsion and whose expectations are unrealistic???

lee said...

"Funny how those who publicly proclaim the truth of Christianity and tell us that we should “give to the Lord” and “sacrifice” for the kingdom’s sake are among the richest men alive."

Actually, according to the latest Duke University Study @ http://news.duke.edu/2008/03/cprelease.html

Conservative Protestant christians are the poorest and most uneducated. I am assuming you mean those who prey upon these gullible, poor and uneducated conservative protestants.

AndreLinoge said...

"When the Tao is forgotten, goodness and piety appear".

I would add so does self-righteousness.

Lee Randolph said...

Hi Tyro,
what Joe is pointing out are inconsistencies in the thinking of some christians.

Sweeping generalizations? maybe.

However, and I think you agree, to contest the truth of something so verifiable is silly isn't it? usually when we contest the truth of something we contest it exactly because we don't believe it is the truth.

so all these christians with such widely differing beliefs, if we say that they if they are contested by another christian they are doubtful, then what we end up with after we strip away all the doubtful tenet is the following.

Jesus lived and died on the cross and we are saved by his bloody human sacrifice.

Inconsistency, thy name is christianity.

Lee Randolph said...

Hi lee,
isn't it fun having a name that is a suffix?
You write so eloquent-lee.

anyway, on to biznez,

Joe said:Funny how those who publicly proclaim the truth of Christianity and tell us that we should “give to the Lord” and “sacrifice” for the kingdom’s sake are among the richest men alive.

You said:Conservative Protestant Christians are the poorest and most uneducated.

what you said does not contradict that some of those Christians are among the riches men alive, as you pointed out, they seem to see their success and riches as a blessing.

I would say that no Christians salvation is guaranteed if they have not done what Jesus told them to do which is to give up everything and preach the gospel. How can they say they have faith if they aren't willing to sacrifice and test it? their discomfort on the earth is an instant in their eternal reward.

If they gonna talk the talk they should walk the walk. What would Jesus Do?

John Murphy said...

Funny how you can get your facts so wrong. If you want sheer numbers the most blood lies at the door of Chairman Mao, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, and Pol Pot, to the tune of tens of millions! (Atheists every one).

zilch said...

andrelinoge says:

"When the Tao is forgotten, goodness and piety appear".

Laurie Anderson says:

"When love is gone, there's always justice.

When justice is gone, there's always force.

When force is gone, there's always Mom.

Hi, Mom!"

sorry for contributing to thread drift- the devil made me do it...

Lee Randolph said...

Hi John m.
you're forgetting the flood which killed everyone but noah and his family, all the cities that lay in path of the israelites after the exodus, the armies of the pharoah and the first born in egypt,
the body count is definitely higher on gods account.

Stan, the Half-Truth Teller said...

Tyro said:

Take your last point about love versus hellfire. I know many Christians don't believe in Hell or don't believe it is a place of torture but merely separation from God. I've no idea what proportion of Christians they represent, but I know they're out there and I'd bet you do to. It simply isn't accurate to say that all Christians who preach love are "always seeking to scare" us.

...which I understand and respect, and his point is well taken.

However, this effectively means that the stated goal of this blog -- notably, to "debunk Christianity" -- is impossible without first defining specifically what we mean by Christianity. John has gone to pretty great lengths to note we mean "Evangelical" Christianity, but apparently even this much smaller brush paints strokes too broad.

To me, it is simply one more example of why religion is a fool's crutch -- the clear existence of mutually exclusive sects, based on different interpretations of identical text, should be considered proof enough to all but the most self-righteous among us.

Either way, though, unless we agree on the tenets and doctrines of the targeted brand of Christianity, then any statement made could be dismissed (as Jason, Rachel, et al are so fond of doing) as the "wrong" type of Christianity, or as "wrong" interpretation of scripture.

John M. said:

Funny how you can get your facts so wrong. If you want sheer numbers the most blood lies at the door of Chairman Mao, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, and Pol Pot, to the tune of tens of millions! (Atheists every one).

Like we've never heard this before.

First, imagine how much more bloody the biblical account would have been had those technologically primitive Israelites and their persistent enemies had access to WMDs of any kind, or to something as mechanically and chemically simple as a belt-fed machine gun?

Second, because atheism is merely a viewpoint denying the existence of any divine being, and not an inherently dogmatic philosophy like Christianity, the crimes of some of its more well-publicized adherents are therefore divorced from the atheist viewpoint entirely. The bible actually has orders from the so-called perfect creator to decimate entire civilizations, or to rape and pillage enemies en masse. These orders came from god. Atheists who commit genocide are merely individual humans -- religionists are doing their god's bidding.

Third, and lastly, this is ad hominem, stupid, and pointless (granted, the second two naturally follow from the first, but I reserve the right to utilize redundancy to enhance my point). Just as the actions of a lone Christian (or a group of Christians) do not immediately reflect on Christianity as a whole, neither do the actions of lone (or groups of) atheists reflect on atheism. Unfortunately for your argument, when those actions are claimed by the very text held aloft as divinely [written | inspired], and equally well hallowed as being justifiable and righteous in the same, well...


So it may well be that Joe's initial post here was full of fallacies, but not so much if we accept that his targeted brand of Christianity is the fundamentalist, evangelical nut-job, the foundation of whose faith relies on each of these "sweeping generalizations".

It's pretty clear that he doesn't truly think that all Christians fit into all of his categories, but clearly some of them ring true in virtually every case, and I would suggest that in the vast majority of cases [of fundamentalist, evangelical Christians] a simple majority (or more) of these categories are accurate depictions.

--
Stan

lee said...

John Murphy

"Funny how you can get your facts so wrong. If you want sheer numbers the most blood lies at the door of Chairman Mao, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, and Pol Pot, to the tune of tens of millions! (Atheists every one)."

John, according to the Roman Catholic church their estimate of those killed in the witch hunts and inquisitions total more than 10 million over the past two thousand years. More realistic estimates made from outside the faith are upwards of 50 million. Remember, two of the greatest theologians in the history of the church Augustine and Aquinas sanctioned torture and murder for heresy and apostasy: Heresy such as justification by faith through grace alone.

Lee Randolph, Thanks for the compliment; I gotta be me.

Shygetz said...

john murphy said (again): Funny how you can get your facts so wrong. If you want sheer numbers the most blood lies at the door of Chairman Mao, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, and Pol Pot, to the tune of tens of millions! (Atheists every one).

I think I should make you write a thousand times "Hitler was not an atheist" until you understand it.

The motto of the Wermacht was "Gott mit uns" not "Darwin mit uns". Hitler said: "We have . . . undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out." Where did he get his anti-Semitism from? I'll give you a hint--not atheism. He even founded a religion based on Christianity stripped of all of the elements he found undesirable--Positive Christianity. And remember, Hitler never fired a shot, never pulled a lever on a gas chamber, etc. That was done mainly by the Einsatzgruppen, which was primarily Christian!

Hitler was a nominal Catholic who mixed a Jesus-as-warrior Christianity with Nordic blood myth. You can call him a heretic, or perhaps even a pagan, but certainly not an atheist.

You have been made aware of these facts numerous times. You can check them yourself; they are all true. You have continued to ignore them and say something that you should know to be false. That makes you a liar.

Flonkbob said...

Thanks Shygetz, saved me a lot of typing. I was debating the value of stating (again!) the obvious, but you did it so well that I have nothing to add except thanks. :)