Dr. Vincent Torley is Clearly and Obviously Delusional, Sorry to Say
In a comment on this blog Torley claimed "either God exists or scientific knowledge is impossible." Then over at Uncommon Descent Torley was arguing against Sean Carroll's excellent video talk, "Is God a Good Theory" (seen below), and in response he says:
1) Why is it that almost every person on the planet agrees that when an apple is thrown up in the air it will fall back to earth, and yet, there is a world wide diversity with regard to god concepts? Isn't it obvious Torley has a misplaced certainty here? For if it is certain that his conception of god exists in the same way that he's certain an apple falls to earth, then almost everyone would believe in his god concept. Since it's clearly obvious they don't, it's clearly obvious Torley is delusional. He has no reasonable escape from this conclusion either. It is rationally impossible for him to.
2) Torley cannot move beyond agnosticism with regard to his god-concept, even if somehow he gets there in the first place. Here is just one of several different god-concepts he cannot argue successfully against. How can he be sure that a Cosmic Trickster God doesn't exist? Take the following two god-concepts:
Since it's obvious Torley is delusional then there is no reason to take his arguments for his god concept seriously. They are nothing but special pleading. He has arrived at a conclusion and therefore he's pretending to know things he doesn't know in order to maintain faith. This is a prime example folks, of how faith is an irrational leap over the probabilities, of why faith itself is irrational. Other believers might see this in him quite easily. They are not so rational in seeing the same thing of their own beliefs. But it's the same mind virus at work.
What can best explain Torley's sense of certainty? It's nothing more than a trick the mind is playing on him. We know the mind plays tricks on us, we know this. In his important book, On Being Certain: Believing You Are Right Even When You're Not,
neurologist Robert Burton argues that, "feeling certain--feeling that we know something--is a mental sensation, rather than evidence of fact. An increasing body of evidence suggests that feelings such as certainty stem from primitive areas of the brain and are independent of active, conscious reflection and reasoning." There is a massive amount of research going on that all support his conclusion too, as can be seen toward the end of this post.
If the facts I just presented don't act like an antibiotic then nothing will at this point, and Torley should be safely ignored as delusional. At that point Torley cannot be helped, I'm so sorry to say.
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Since Torley was arguing against Sean Carroll's excellent video talk, "Is God a Good Theory," here it is. I think Carroll nailed it:
The existence of God is as certain as the fact that our scientific inferences are well-grounded, since it is God Himself Who grounds them. My certainty about God’s existence is roughly on a par with my certainty that an apple thrown up in the air will fall back to Earth in a lawlike fashion, and not fly off into space or zoom around the room.The god he's certain about is,
Someone (beyond space and time) Whose nature it is to know and love in a perfect and unlimited way, Whose mode of acting is simply to know, love and choose (without anything more basic underlying these acts), Who is the Creator and Conserver of the natural world, and Who is therefore capable of making anything He wishes to, provided that it’s consistent with His nature as a perfectly intelligent and loving being, and with His other choices.[Actually, Torley is being disingenuous here and won't honestly admit it, since by extension he's also certain his evangelical trinitarian, incarnational, redeeming god exists, who is supposedly based in the pages of an inspired Bible, but I'll let that slide. If he's not certain of this, then what degree of probability would he say these additional beliefs of his warrant?] Now if Torley is a rational person unaffected by the irrationalities of faith, then he can be brought to his senses with just two facts. If not, then he cannot be helped, just like a heavily indoctrinated Moonie, or Mormon, or Muslim cannot be helped.
1) Why is it that almost every person on the planet agrees that when an apple is thrown up in the air it will fall back to earth, and yet, there is a world wide diversity with regard to god concepts? Isn't it obvious Torley has a misplaced certainty here? For if it is certain that his conception of god exists in the same way that he's certain an apple falls to earth, then almost everyone would believe in his god concept. Since it's clearly obvious they don't, it's clearly obvious Torley is delusional. He has no reasonable escape from this conclusion either. It is rationally impossible for him to.
2) Torley cannot move beyond agnosticism with regard to his god-concept, even if somehow he gets there in the first place. Here is just one of several different god-concepts he cannot argue successfully against. How can he be sure that a Cosmic Trickster God doesn't exist? Take the following two god-concepts:
(1) An all-powerful deity created and guides the universe ultimately towards a good purpose;How could he reject (2)? That's the question. If he says he knows (2) is false because he believes (1) is true, then the problem is that his belief that (1) is true could be part of a cosmic joke explained by (2). Therefore there is no way he could embrace (1) and be certain of it in the same sense he's certain an apple falls to the earth. Based on this consideration alone the best any believer can claim is agnosticism. This too is clearly obvious. Since that's so, it is clearly obvious Torley is delusional. He has no reasonable escape from this conclusion either. It is rationally impossible for him to.
and
(2) An all-powerful deity created and guides the universe ultimately towards an evil purpose, but has chosen to maliciously presented himself as benevolent to play a trick on created beings.
Since it's obvious Torley is delusional then there is no reason to take his arguments for his god concept seriously. They are nothing but special pleading. He has arrived at a conclusion and therefore he's pretending to know things he doesn't know in order to maintain faith. This is a prime example folks, of how faith is an irrational leap over the probabilities, of why faith itself is irrational. Other believers might see this in him quite easily. They are not so rational in seeing the same thing of their own beliefs. But it's the same mind virus at work.
What can best explain Torley's sense of certainty? It's nothing more than a trick the mind is playing on him. We know the mind plays tricks on us, we know this. In his important book, On Being Certain: Believing You Are Right Even When You're Not,
neurologist Robert Burton argues that, "feeling certain--feeling that we know something--is a mental sensation, rather than evidence of fact. An increasing body of evidence suggests that feelings such as certainty stem from primitive areas of the brain and are independent of active, conscious reflection and reasoning." There is a massive amount of research going on that all support his conclusion too, as can be seen toward the end of this post.If the facts I just presented don't act like an antibiotic then nothing will at this point, and Torley should be safely ignored as delusional. At that point Torley cannot be helped, I'm so sorry to say.
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Since Torley was arguing against Sean Carroll's excellent video talk, "Is God a Good Theory," here it is. I think Carroll nailed it:
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