tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post2495989756980605077..comments2023-12-01T18:05:24.875-05:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: Genesis 2:21-25: Woman From Rib and Mother Goddesses of Near Eastern MythsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger192125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-90329071810659226482008-08-10T05:55:00.000-04:002008-08-10T05:55:00.000-04:00Unless Lee reopens this thread I'm shutting it dow...Unless Lee reopens this thread I'm shutting it down for good. 191 comments is enough, especially when it degenerates like it has.<BR/><BR/>Cheers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-20326170259849230012008-08-10T04:30:00.000-04:002008-08-10T04:30:00.000-04:00Harvey,Your accusations and conclusions based, on ...Harvey,<BR/><BR/>Your accusations and conclusions based, on my vulgar examples are unwarranted and wholly illogical. To conclude I am psychotic because, I offered up a dramatic and vile representation of what really happens in this cruel and violent life, is a heinous tactic, that associates the story teller with the crime they are talking about. You might as well condemn any person (survivors of the Holocaust, rape victims who were brutally, tortured for years, victims of sexual mutilation etc.) who give vivid, testimony of the vile and vulgar atrocities, perpetrated against them. The only reason you, lower yourself, and resort to maligning me, falsely accusing me to be in league with the atrocious acts I mention, branding me psychotic, is to blatantly, misdirect the viewer from the real arguments and paint me as immoral -- which is absolutely not true. It's a devious, underhanded trick, revealing, your inability to argue my specific points -- demonstrating fully -- you got nothing.<BR/><BR/>We are lucky as agnostics, atheists and the non-religious, that we have a testament of your unethical and illogical equivocations, encapsulated in writing, forever exposing your colossal, ineptitude and inability to, honestly, answer questions, that even most Christians would find wholly, absurd and interminably, fallacious. <BR/><BR/>Next: <BR/>Let's review; I opened up and bared my soul, giving real-life examples, of my intense grief and how others are affected by the death of their children. I used these examples to lend a sense of verisimilitude to the aftermath of god's actions, resulting in the misery and unimaginable grief, the survivors had to endure. The examples I used, solely, serve to illustrate the devastating effects of grief; specifically, the grief that cripples parents, who's children have died. The small sample, I shared, doesn't even -- remotely -- come close, to clarifying how monumentally overwhelming and tragic it is to lose your child. Mark Twain -- who lost two of his daughters -- wrote that, you could use every word, of every language, and still, not convey the unbearable loss, of your children. The pain and misery is ineffable.<BR/> <BR/>The only reason I used the examples I did, is to express, to people, who couldn't possibly, comprehend or imagine the heart wrenching, crippling, pain parents trudge through, when their child dies. Everything I do and everything I say -- everything -- comes from the perspective of my son dying. So when I took to studying the bible, all I could see is, god's supposed "just" actions of punishing his earthly children, by killing them, had a truly reprehensible side effect, that is not conveyed in scripture -- the surviving families must, now, live with unimaginable grief and pain, because of what god wrought. The magnitude of overwhelming, grief and anguish is staggering.<BR/> <BR/>This is an observation, that I became painfully, aware of, while reading the bible, with the perspective of having to watch my son suffer and die, coupled with the dreadful, long-lasting, suffering, of intolerable grief, I live with, to this day. <BR/> <BR/>Shamelessly, you accuse me of exploiting the pain and tragedy of my son's death, when I am <B>consumed</B> with nothing but the incredible loss of my child -- which if you learned anything from the article I presented -- you would understand, is normal. When confronted with what I read in the bible, it would have been criminal for me not to make my comparisons and arguments, while expressing the suffering I've gone through.<BR/> <BR/>I have to wonder, how, any book on suffering (the Holocaust, atomic bombing of Japan, slavery, war etc.) could convey the horrific suffering, without personal testimonies, that which you condemn me for. <BR/> <BR/>Then with all the eloquence of a cantankerous, pompous ass, saturated with grave insensitivity, that only a callous, cold-hearted, depraved and delusional, asshole, could vomit up, you unabashedly, maligned and slandered me, by accusing me of <B>disrespecting my son's memory, and devaluing him</B>. You are -- with out a doubt -- a despicable, cruel, little, man, a reprehensible, cretin, who -- in me -- evokes an utter, disgust and repulsion and what's truly, pitiful, is you are completely, oblivious, to your uncaring, insensitive words, having no idea how disgraceful and hurtful you are. You are beyond reproach and have made it perfectly, clear, you could never come to me with the compassion of Christ -- it is entirely beyond you; a never-ending chasm. <BR/><BR/><B>Do <I>not</I> use my son against me; you have no right to do so.</B> I don't care about the jabs leveled at me, specifically, I can tolerate those, but using my son, in the loathsome, way you did, is crossing a humongous line, in a malicious, hurtful way -- way, way out of bounds. Refrain, from that behavior or the discourse will be terminated.<BR/><BR/>--S.sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-57766968004792345282008-08-10T03:44:00.000-04:002008-08-10T03:44:00.000-04:00Harvey,Urban Dictionary is a wiki, where any imbec...Harvey,<BR/><BR/>Urban Dictionary is a wiki, where any imbecile, anonymous, user can make up a word and offer a definition, which is exactly the way you interpret the bible. You will not find "laquatious" in any authentic, credible, dictionary.<BR/><BR/>Umbilical cord? <BR/>Not all problems can be eliminated when dealing with complex organisms. As biological organisms we are susceptible to disease and injury.<BR/>OK, now your turn why did your god, the intelligent creator, of the finely tuned universe, create an umbilical cord, with the devastating, unintelligent design, that can cause thousand of babies to die a year or causes thousands of babies to suffer with severe mental deficiencies? <BR/> <BR/>To equivocate, <I>god loves us</I>, without showing <B>how</B> he loves us (his actions) only proves he is the figment of your delusional, mind. Care to offer tangible proof that comes directly from god, without equivocating or trying equate absurd, arbitrary, correlations, that shows god loves us?<BR/> <BR/><I>yea I call you WRONG and still hiding out blaming others for your pain and trouble</I><BR/> <BR/>Making false allegations again? Explain to me how I am hiding out and show me where I blamed others, for my monumental grief.<BR/> <BR/>This was your proof for what prayer can do:<BR/><I>Now speaking of what prayer can do...my baby was BORN DEAD.Umbilical cord wrapped around his neck TWO times..That's right for all of you that have exited God out...I gave up on having a living son, my wife while cut open and bleeding had the faith and trust in God until he breated and his heart beat...Then he was perfectly normal on all tests and is normal today.</I> <BR/> <BR/>Your argument is you have to have faith in Christ. That when you pray it has to be with unwavering faith in Christ, so your prayers can be answered. This is what you used to substantiate your claims that prayer works.<BR/> <BR/>Will god answer the prayer of a person, who does not have faith in christ -- who prays to their deity -- by actually bringing their dead baby back to life?<BR/> <BR/>You answered, <I>God hears and listens to all and he blesses all everyday with LIFE, and certainly things that none could ever deserve or ask for and further everything in life points to him.]</I><BR/> <BR/>You never answered if other religion's prayers are answered by god's <B>actions</B>, specifically in the case of bringing dead babies back. Does god act upon the prayers of other religions, by changing the laws of nature and causing miracles to happen, like what, supposedly, happened with your baby?<BR/> <BR/>You know why you can't answer, because if god answers the prayers of other religious people and they don't have faith in Christ, then your faith is null and void -- just another insignificant, delusional belief. So by all means rant and diverge.<BR/> <BR/>Sconnor~ "Also if god was not there who would have smote all the first born of Egypt? I know you have a difficult time with hypothetical but try really hard and think of a non-evasive, answer."<BR/><BR/><I>[God has a host that he uses to do his bidding. Death is one of those enemies that was given birth by the SIN, rebellion and deliberate turning of man away from God.(Jas. 1:14-15) That’s why death is our enemy and it will be obliterated( 1 Cor. 15:26, Rev. 20:14 ) <BR/><BR/>Death was sent to do the bidding of God. Was God in control?...Yes, that's why none died but the firstborn, which refrenced Jesus. Could God have stopped it?...Yes,but there would have been no freedom without that event, this also refrences Jesus. The whole story points to the redemption of all people by blood and the sacrifice of the firstbegotten or firstborn which God himself would step up and accomplish...Your point has NOTHING to do with the issues of the scripture]</I><BR/><BR/>So god did cause misery.<BR/> <BR/>But God wasn't completely in control. Evidently your god was cosmic moron, not able to distinguish between the Jewish first born and the Egyptian first born, so they had to put up blood markers so god wouldn't be confused. More mythology conundrums.<BR/><BR/>You made this statement -- <I>[First God DID NOT cause misery.</I><BR/> <BR/>Your answer was -- <I>[Just because you emphasize that God DID cause misery DOESN'T make it true either, in addition you have to twist scriptural messages to support your assertions, I don't]</I><BR/> <BR/>...conveniently avoiding the scripture that says god does cause misery:<BR/> <BR/><B>Ecc. 7:14 -- In the day of prosperity be joyful, but in the day of adversity consider: God also hath set the one over against the other, to the end that man should find nothing after him. <BR/><BR/>Which means: When times are good, you should be cheerful; when times are bad, think what it means. God makes them both to keep us from knowing what will happen next. <BR/><BR/>The Hebrew word for "Adversity" is "[r '', meaning, bad, evil bad, disagreeable, malignant bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)</B> <BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "Oh I'm sorry does god hang out with you or does he talk -- with your voice -- in your head? The important thing to remember is I do not recognize you as an authority," <BR/><BR/><I>[I am beginning to recognize you as a pious, and self exalted exploiter]</I><BR/><BR/>WTF? <BR/>Like I said, you have no authority, you use god's supposed, voice as your own, wallowing in delusion and bogus sense of superiority. You make the extraordinary claims that god talks to you through the bible and that you know what god thinks and does and how he wants us to act -- all I'm doing is asking you to substantiate those extraordinary claims -- can you? <BR/><BR/> <BR/>Sconnor~ Oh and your god had a hard time driving out this army.<BR/>Judges 1:19 -- And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>[No. Obviously you didn’t read the rest of the story:<BR/><BR/>Judges 2:21-23 ~ "I also will not henceforth drive out any from before them out of the nations which Joshua left when he died: , That through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the Lord to walk therein, as their fathers did keep it, or not. , Therefore the Lord left those nations without driving them out hastily; neither delivered he them into the hand of Joshua."<BR/><BR/>The reason was to "prove" them or so that their hearts, thoughts intents and aspirations could be exposed. Later in Chapter 4 God deals with those chariots. He destroys the army through the use of natural events...rain, with chariot wheels stuck in the mud. God corrects 20 years of pain and affliction in one day and the leadr of the Chariots head is stuck to the ground.</I> <BR/><BR/>Oh, I read the rest of the story. Contextually, it says, "The lord could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."<BR/> <BR/>It doesn't say god <I><B>pretended</B></I> to be weak so he could leave other enemies for Israel to fight. And even, if later on, in the story god says, I left other enemies for you to fight, it comes off as if, he is making excuses, for not being able to drive out the inhabitant of the valley. It's either, god backtracking or the writers of the bible, saw that their almighty god was not as powerful as he should be and <I>they</I> backtracked. In any case, god couldn't drive out the inhabitants -- at that time -- and how does scripture explain this? Because they had chariots of iron, not because of some elaborate plan for god to <I><B>pretend</B></I> to be defeated by chariots, so he could leave enemies for Isreal, later on.<BR/> <BR/>we are both in agreement egregious suffering inflicts the world -- the world is full of vile, horrible, suffering, and yet, god keeps creating earthly children, to send on to that abysmal planet, of suffering. Why does god keep creating more earthly children, that he sends into this sinful world?"<BR/><BR/>Your answer -- true to form -- incessantly diverges, makes inaccurate analogies and makes faulty conclusions.<BR/> <BR/><I>Why do you not stop eating, because you know there are people starving? Why not stop drinking, because someone is thirsty? Why don’t YOU sell you home and live outdoors because someone is homeless? You’re a bleeding heart liberal, with your own preconceived brand of morality based on you your totally irrational assessment of what you think life should be to you.</I> <BR/> <BR/>Whaaat?<BR/>I'm not asking god to stop eating or drinking, I'm asking why does he continue to send his earthly children, into, what he knows is, a land of suffering, levels of egregious pain more egregious then the first?<BR/><BR/><I>Arguments as such do not make sense and further leave the burden on you to be what you require everyone else to be.</I><BR/> <BR/>Is this a comment on your arguments? Sure fits the bill. <BR/><BR/><I>WHAT HAVE YOU GIVEN UP FOR THE COMFORT OF OTHERS? What have you done to befriend someone else’s living child? Are you a mentor at a school? Or are you just further totally absorbed in your self and your desire for everyone to bow down to you?</I> <BR/><BR/>This has nothing to do with my philanthropic endeavors, we are talking about god sending his earhtly children to an earth where there is mass suffering -- remember? <BR/>God does not have to give up his comfort, to send his earthly children, to a planet, that he knows is full of sin, evil, and vile suffering -- why does he continue to send his earthly children to a planet where there is egregious, vile suffering?<BR/> <BR/>Diverge, diverge, diverge.<BR/><BR/>--S.sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-89508810740418154542008-08-09T16:56:00.000-04:002008-08-09T16:56:00.000-04:00Sconnor~ "Oh there's doubt. It's unfair to pass ju...Sconnor~ "Oh there's doubt. It's unfair to pass judgment, based on a few postings and preconceived ideas and does nothing to further your arguments. My ability to reason and use logic, in light of your absurdities and lame non-answers and your habitual use of diverging and being evasive, are enough to cause me to respond, as I do."<BR/><BR/>[That’s just the problem you have repeatedly shown your inability to reason and use logic. As I said I don’t care if you don’t like the answers, I don’t like a lot of things but that’s just the way it is]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "Bullshit, non-answer. You didn't tell how he loves us; you just simply reiterated "god loves us" and declared humans to be sinners."<BR/><BR/>[You ask "How, exactly does God love us" and respond with a list of functions that one does BECAUSE one loves. Obviously you don’t understand your own question. <BR/><BR/>BEFORE you had an opportunity to do any of those things you loved Connor. Now either you don’t know what you’re asking or you don’t know how to properly articulate the question, either way from what I can see...OVERRATED!]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~"2. How are you privy to this information, while myself and others are not?"<BR/><BR/>[His love is manifest to all mankind and is not hidden from anyone. We partake of it everyday by waking, moving breathing and a host of other small and large things.]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "Bullshit mystical, non-answer. Arbitrarily listing everyday things we do in life is not evidence of god's love. Just because I walk and breathe is not god's love manifesting itself. When I shit and barf and masturbate, is that god's love manifesting itself?" <BR/><BR/>[Not only do you not understand what you ask or what you SUPPOSEDLY question you have no clue as to how to discern or know truth...Now that’s impressive, that you can fake your way along so well using a tragic situation as a defense and shield for your ignorance]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "BTW, there is no such word as "laquatious" -- and I didn't even have to look it up."<BR/><BR/>[Yea...OK...so go here and see how WRONG you are AGAIN. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=laquatious<BR/>Mr. Knowledge and reason, you gave the most laquatious answer to the most laquatious question and further you’re the most laquatious person I know...OVERRATED!]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ 1. So explain to me why your god designed the umbilical cord with such a devastating flaw?<BR/><BR/>[Can you FIRST explain why natural selection or any other naturalistic process has not eliminated the problem?]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "Bullshit answer. I asked first. Give me a straight forward, concise, answer and I 'll be glad to offer reams of information on natural selection."<BR/><BR/>[Doesn’t matter who asked what first...GIVE ME AN ANSWER MR. god of the world!]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "Oh, I called you wrong and you still are wrong.<BR/>Your argument of what prayer can do (...Now speaking of what prayer can do...) fails and crumbles under the weight of your bullshit. Your new arguments are counter-intuitive and prove that prayer did not bring you baby back from death."<BR/><BR/>[And yea I call you WRONG and still hiding out blaming others for your pain and trouble...so you’re WRONG Sconnor...prove me wrong why don’t you, instead of providing a diluted, meaningless, blanket assertions... and inarticulate profanities. YOU’RE OVERRATED!]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "Notice that part in your argument about what prayer can do? You are all over the place. It is a dizzying sight, to behold."<BR/><BR/>[And that doesn’t even account for the other’s I’ve seen and personally know that have were dead and are alive today because of God moving according to believing prayer...face it Sconnor, it’s beyond you to figure out and just when you think it’s where you can discern it it’s beyond your capacity to comprehend, God defies and is totally above what is left of your intellectual capacities.]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "My reading comprehension is just fine." <BR/><BR/>[You say so but the evidence is in your responses that a remedial class in reading comprehension is in order]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "Point blank question. Does god answer prayers, that are prayed by other religions? If a Hindu prayed to Brahma to bring back his dead baby, would god jump in and do it?"<BR/><BR/>[Stay focused, point blank...the question HAS BEEN ANSWERED]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "Wasting time with more bullshit, avoiding and diverging."<BR/><BR/>[Sconnor is wasting time and life PERIOD with ridiculous assertions and pursuits that he calls logical all the while looking for a platform to proliferate his preconceived biases by any means necessary]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~"4. Also when other religions pray to their god and one of their dead babies comes back to life, was it an act of god, or a delusion that their god intervened or a happy coincidental, outcome?<BR/><BR/>You know as well as I do this was a hypothetical question." <BR/><BR/>[You know that’s was a stupid question and lends nothing to the conversation and you’re frustrated that I recognize your stupidity and won't buy into it...deal with facts not hypotheticals]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "I'll have to do better, huh? You only have ignorance, delusion, and superstition to offer me and none of it comforts or helps me, in any way, which means you have zero to offer me. The bullshit you spew is convoluted, nonsense, that only, makes sense in the religious omelet of your myopic, mind and you continually and habitually skirt the issues. Your arrogance is dwarfed by your bullshit pat answers and you are worthy of no respect."<BR/><BR/>[You’re not worthy of respect either Sconnor, you believe that just because you’ve suffered tragedy the world should stop for you...WELL IT DOESN’T! You have no greater pass in life than I had and no greater grip on reality and suffering than me. You haven’t acted or behaved yourself respectfully in any manner in this blog and I am human like you. What RESPECT do you deserve? NONE HERE! Yet you’re extended grace, because I have no obligation to talk to you at all, but others need to see the utter futility of an empty soul and I say that even in that you’re still OVERRATED!]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "... said the man with the over-inflated ego."<BR/><BR/>[If you move that INFLATED chip off your shoulder then maybe you can see at least something accurately...like your OVERRATED and SELF-EXPLOITIVE NATURE!]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ Preposterous. I do not sit on my ass, wallowing in complacency. I have been on an obsessive search ever since my son died. Just because I don't accept your myopic, bullshit truth, doesn't predispose me to not wanting to know the truth.<BR/><BR/>[Yes but your total disrespect for me (and I’m sure) others as HUMANS displays your self-centered and pious attitude in your "supposed" search. Since men are the vehicles used to convey truth, you hold truth hostage to your fanciful presuppositional thinking and biases. That’s both illogical, unscientific and a total denial what you say you’re seeking...but you won’t be able to see it because you’re blinded by your own irrationality and self-centeredness]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "Also if god was not there who would have smote all the first born of Egypt? I know you have a difficult time with hypothetical but try really hard and think of a non-evasive, answer."<BR/><BR/>[God has a host that he uses to do his bidding. Death is one of those enemies that was given birth by the SIN, rebellion and deliberate turning of man away from God.(Jas. 1:14-15) That’s why death is our enemy and it will be obliterated( 1 Cor. 15:26, Rev. 20:14 ) <BR/><BR/>Death was sent to do the bidding of God. Was God in control?...Yes, that's why none died but the firstborn, which refrenced Jesus. Could God have stopped it?...Yes,but there would have been no freedom without that event, this also refrences Jesus. The whole story points to the redemption of all people by blood and the sacrifice of the firstbegotten or firstborn which God himself would step up and accomplish...Your point has NOTHING to do with the issues of the scripture]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "Just because you emphasize god "DID NOT" cause misery -- doesn't make it true."<BR/><BR/>[Just because you emphasize that God DID cause misery DOESN'T make it true either, in addition you have to twist scriptural messages to support your assertions, I don't.]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "Oh I'm sorry does god hang out with you or does he talk -- with your voice -- in your head? The important thing to remember is I do not recognize you as an authority," <BR/><BR/>[I am beginning to recognize you as a pious, and self exalted exploiter]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "nor does the bullshit you spew come directly from god. Your nothing but a bullshit artist, another deluded, ass; the equivalent of an ignorant, sweaty preacher, in a cheap suit, proselytizing on a street corner." <BR/><BR/>[That’s exactly where I began, and do it now as often as time will allow...I just saw a prostitute that I ministered to 25 years ago come to church. She laughed at me 25 years ago, but she's totally different now..That was a blessing.]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "You know the ones -- where everyone points at them and laughs, while the psycho-preacher is oblivious and continues to vomit up unsubstantiated, idiosyncratic, religious, nonsense, deep in a delusional orgasm."<BR/><BR/>[Laugh at me, I’m in good company, I just happen to know the one who put all this together and who’ll bring it all to an end]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "That's your dumb-ass argument, that doesn't address the god of the bible, who causes his earthly children to suffer, egregiously, in grief, because he killed people or ordered the killing of others."<BR/><BR/>[Ooh, it more addresses your self-exaltation and your twisted view of humanity being there at your beck and call]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ Oh and your god had a hard time driving out this army.<BR/>Judges 1:19 -- And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."<BR/><BR/><BR/>[No. Obviously you didn’t read the rest of the story:<BR/><BR/>Judges 2:21-23 ~ "I also will not henceforth drive out any from before them out of the nations which Joshua left when he died: , That through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the Lord to walk therein, as their fathers did keep it, or not. , Therefore the Lord left those nations without driving them out hastily; neither delivered he them into the hand of Joshua."<BR/><BR/>The reason was to "prove" them or so that their hearts, thoughts intents and aspirations could be exposed. Later in Chapter 4 God deals with those chariots. He destroys the army through the use of natural events...rain, with chariot wheels stuck in the mud. God corrects 20 years of pain and affliction in one day and the leadr of the Chariots head is stuck to the ground. <BR/><BR/>In short,the heart of the people was exposed through pain...just like your is today. Neither those chariots, leaders or your heart is problematic for God.]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "How dare you insinuate, that I used this example to soothe my emotions or feed my libido. It is a perfect example -- lewd and vile -- to make my point." <BR/><BR/>[No it’s a perfect example of the depravity of your heart to use your son’s tragedy as an instrument to disrespect humanity and people such as myself who didn’t reach out to you as a religious leader but AS A MAN AND A FATHER...THAT’S LEWD AND VILE! <BR/><BR/>Your contemptuous behavior and self-exaltation of you and your pain above all men and women, Christian and non-Christian is loathsome.]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "I know it is a vile example. Just because I bring it up does not make me a psychotic." <BR/><BR/>[I beg to differ with you sir...This shows the epitome of insolence, a desire to grandstand, and a callous approach toward the pain of others who may have experienced events you describe...but that doesn’t matter to you, only your weird, preconceived self-exaltation, behavior above all humans and perverted desire to try to prove that you have an intellectual superiority which the exact OPPOSITE has been demonstrated here.]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "F-you Harvey, you deluded psycho." <BR/><BR/>[I believe that by your own words you have proven to be the DELUDED PSYCHO and continue to demonstrate such with your inability to articulate any reasonable argument that doesn’t use profanity or require individuals to worship you.]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "Now your delusions of grandeur stifle you with suspicion. If this is any indication how you minister to the sick, grieving and suffering, again both you and your god are, apathetic, incompetent, malfeasants."<BR/><BR/>[This is how I minister to individuals who exploit pain and use tragedy to support their presuppositional biases. You have no free pass on suffering. If your sons life meant as much to you as you say it does you wouldn’t disrespect his memory in the self-centered manner that you do. Pain is one thing. You have NO LOCK on pain and suffering and your experience IS NOT above humanity and more specifically MINE. I won’t bow down to worship you as you require that Christian do, you’re not God and you certainly have NOTHING of value to offer but a story that is COMMON to me and others. As I said OVERRATED! I’ll further add EMPTY and WANTING.]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "So yeah, crazy. But I am fully capable of engaging you."<BR/><BR/>[All I’ve asked for you to do is expose yourself, which you’ve done quite well and more specifically in a rather embarrassing manner for yourself]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "Bullshit diverging, again. Even if sin isn't an imaginary magical substitution for what is evil in the world, we are both in agreement egregious suffering inflicts the world -- the world is full of vile, horrible, suffering, and yet god keeps creating earthly children to send on to that abysmal planet, of suffering. Why does god keep creating more earthly children, that he sends into this sinful world?"<BR/><BR/>[Why do you not stop eating, because you know there are people starving? Why not stop drinking, because someone is thirsty? Why don’t YOU sell you home and live outdoors because someone is homeless? You’re a bleeding heart liberal, with your own preconceived brand of morality based on you your totally irrational assessment of what you think life should be to you. <BR/><BR/>Arguments as such do not make sense and further leave the burden on you to be what you require everyone else to be. <BR/><BR/>WHAT HAVE YOU GIVEN UP FOR THE COMFORT OF OTHERS? What have you done to befriend someone else’s living child? Are you a mentor at a school? Or are you just further totally absorbed in your self and your desire for everyone to bow down to you? <BR/><BR/>Since you don’t quite know how to "go there" without becoming vulgar, and showing showing your vile and empty emotionalism, I’ll just be specific as this will be the culmination of my interaction to you, because you have demonstrated, against my hopes, that YOU are more valuable to you than anyone including your son. <BR/><BR/>I don’t know you and you certainly don’t know me, but to come off as you have has demonstrated the real problem. That problem BEGINS and ENDS with YOU! <BR/><BR/>As I said from the beginning, your son is FINE he’s quite OK. But you like pharaoh, have exalted your intellect to a place where you feel that you are unapproachable and above all humanity. Yet you’re just like us...a person with vile thoughts and expressions that cannot deliver yourself. YOU NEED GOD, for you will be the only problem that you will continue to face in life. <BR/><BR/>Stop exploiting the tragedy of your child as if that gives you a license to disrespect and act contemptuously or some special knowledge above all humanity. <BR/><BR/>Sorry, I love my children dearly and if either of them were to die it would change my life dramatically, but based on what I’ve already lost in life and what I’ve had to experience personally just to survive today...My faith stands firm and I simply render YES to God for my complete life, tragedy and joys. My life and mind belongs to him. He sustains me not some BLIND CHANCE in which there are no answers for even the smallest occurrence except for what can be discerned by a man based on what he can see in a test tube physically. <BR/><BR/>So thank you for exposing yourself and I appreciate any kindness displayed as I can see that whatever I have received is beyond you to provide.<BR/><BR/>The shame of SIN covered with leaves still exists and is displayed here clearly.]<BR/><BR/>Thanks.District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-49259584397000342902008-08-09T03:35:00.000-04:002008-08-09T03:35:00.000-04:00Havey,Thanks 3M, I appreciate it and your observat...Havey,<BR/><BR/><I>Thanks 3M, I appreciate it and your observations are right on point without a doubt.</I> <BR/> <BR/>Oh there's doubt. It's unfair to pass judgment, based on a few postings and preconceived ideas and does nothing to further your arguments. My ability to reason and use logic, in light of your absurdities and lame non-answers and your habitual use of diverging and being evasive, are enough to cause me to respond, as I do.<BR/> <BR/>Sconnor~ "1. How, exactly, does god love us? <BR/><BR/><I>[God loves us in spite of our faults and pernicious ways based on his own choice to do so ]</I><BR/> <BR/>Bullshit, non-answer. You didn't tell how he loves us; you just simply reiterated "god loves us" and declared humans to be sinners.<BR/> <BR/>Try this on for size. <I><B>Sconnor how exactly did you love Connor?</B></I><BR/>1. I fed him when he was hungry<BR/>2. I gave him drink when he was thirsty.<BR/>3. I clothed him.<BR/>4. I gave him shelter.<BR/>5. I protected him from harm.<BR/>6. Whenever it was humanly possible, I protected him from disease.<BR/>7. Under no circumstance would I lay a hand on him to harm him.<BR/>8. Under no circumstance would I mentally abuse him.<BR/>9. I encouraged him.<BR/>10. I hugged him.<BR/>11. I kissed him.<BR/>12. When he was sick, I took care of him.<BR/>13. When he got boo-boos, I treated them and kissed them.<BR/>14. I held his hand.<BR/>15. I provided for him.<BR/>16. When he was sad, I listened.<BR/>17. I rubbed his back.<BR/>18. When he failed, I was there to support him.<BR/>19. When he succeeded I was their to complement him.<BR/>20. When he cried, I wiped away his tears.<BR/>21. I helped with his homework.<BR/>22. I helped him learn life lessons.<BR/>23. I taught him to be compassionate.<BR/>24. I just hung out with him.<BR/>25. When things went wrong for him, I told him things will get better.<BR/>26. I helped him with school projects.<BR/>27. I disciplined without being abusive.<BR/>28. We laughed together.<BR/>29. We'd joke together.<BR/>30. I would hold him close, just under the nape of my neck, kiss his forehead, while smelling the top of his head and I would tell him, the kiss on your forehead is a kiss that goes to your heart and to your very soul -- I love you with all my heart.<BR/> <BR/>Everyday, of every minute, your god is AWOL and neglects his earthly children, and turns a blind eye to my list. Your god shows no love like humanity is capable of. That's because your god is imaginary -- a figment of your twisted mind.<BR/> <BR/><B>The best minds will tell you that when a man has begotten a child he is morally bound to tenderly care for it, protect it from hurt, shield it from disease, clothe it, feed it, bear with its waywardness, lay no hand upon it save in kindness and for its own good, and never in any case inflict upon it a wanton cruelty. God's treatment of his earthly children, every day and every night, is the exact opposite of all that, yet those best minds warmly justify these crimes, condone them, excuse them, and indignantly refuse to regard them as crimes at all, when he commits them. Your country and mine is an interesting one, but there is nothing there that is half so interesting as the human mind. -- Mark Twain</B><BR/> <BR/>You, of course, are the one who condones, excuses, and indignantly refuses to regard them as crimes at all.<BR/> <BR/><BR/>Sconnor~2. How are you privy to this information, while myself and others are not?<BR/><BR/><I>[His love is manifest to all mankind and is not hidden from anyone. We partake of it everyday by waking, moving breathing and a host of other small and large things.]</I><BR/><BR/>Bullshit mystical, non-answer. Arbitrarily listing everyday things we do in life is not evidence of god's love. Just because I walk and breathe is not god's love manifesting itself. When I shit and barf and masturbate, is that god's love manifesting itself? <BR/><BR/>Sconnor~3. Can you tell us how god loves us, without referring to the bible?<BR/><BR/><I>[Should we ask you to define laquatious without referring to a dictionary? Although your gymnastics are absurd and unreasonable one stark display of God’s love toward you is that we would even meet and talk. Admittedly you’re sick, I know a physician and a referral is in order, that’s an example of the Love Of God]</I><BR/><BR/>Bullshit non-answer and straw-man. Thus far you have not demonstrated -- in the least -- how god shows his love for us. You and I talking, as a manifestation of god's love, is just another lame and ludicrous equivocation and non sequitur . You and I talk therefor god loves us -- bullshit.<BR/><BR/>BTW, there is no such word as "laquatious" -- and I didn't even have to look it up.<BR/><BR/> <BR/><BR/>Sconnor~4. How exactly does god love his enemies?"<BR/><BR/><I>[He loves his enemies by giving them ample warning before they bring destruction upon themselves. A little like an Ali-Cooney fight, he only asks that you listen to the warning signs first. He does this through the proliferation of truth and open, clear and objective rebuke at times. “Love is NEVER having to say you’re sorry”]</I><BR/><BR/>Bullshit non-answer and inaccurate analogy. To fit your logic the analogy should go like this: Ali told Cooney TO WORSHIP AND OBEY HIM and when Cooney didn't listen, Ali put anthrax spores in Coony's water and killed him -- therefore Ali loves him. Another ridiculous non sequitur that I can't even believe makes sense in your mind -- but evidently that's what happens when reason and logic is replaced with faith and ignorance, the mind becomes a wreck.<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ 1. So explain to me why your god designed the umbilical cord with such a devastating flaw?<BR/><BR/><I>[Can you FIRST explain why natural selection or any other naturalistic process has not eliminated the problem?]</I><BR/><BR/> <BR/><BR/>Bullshit answer. I asked first. Give me a straight forward, concise, answer and I 'll be glad to offer reams of information on natural selection.<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~Wrong. In your defense of prayer, supposedly your faith was all tapped out, but your wife's unwavering faith, sent the right message to god so that your son miraculously, came back to life.<BR/><BR/><I>[You can’t call me wrong because you have no basis and this is not a right or wrong question or answer. My wife held to the promise that God made to her 3 years prior even when the Dr. said it was impossible for her to have a child…Get a clue.]</I> <BR/><BR/>Sconnor~2. Did your wife's faith, in god, bring back your son from death or not?<BR/><BR/><I>[The promise of God who cannot lie brought my son back all my wife did was exercise her belief through trust, this only displayed her level of trust and belief, not a determination of the eventual outcome.]</I><BR/><BR/>Oh, I called you wrong and you still are wrong.<BR/>Your argument of what prayer can do (<I>...Now speaking of what prayer can do...</I>) fails and crumbles under the weight of your bullshit. Your new arguments are counter-intuitive and prove that prayer did not bring you baby back from death.<BR/><BR/>Here's your original statement:<BR/><BR/><I>...Now speaking of what prayer can do...my baby was BORN DEAD.Umbilical cord wrapped around his neck TWO times..That's right for all of you that have exited God out...I gave up on having a living son, my wife while cut open and bleeding had the faith and trust in God until he breated and his heart beat...Then he was perfectly normal on all tests and is normal today.</I> <BR/><BR/>Notice that part in your argument about what prayer can do? You are all over the place. It is a dizzying sight, to behold.<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "So, evidently god won't listen when a Hindu family prays to Brahma, when they are suffering? <BR/><BR/><I>[So evidently you suffer reading too..I said, “God hears and listens to all and he blesses all everyday with LIFE, and certainly things that none could ever deserve or ask for and further everything in life points to him.”]</I><BR/><BR/>My reading comprehension is just fine. You exclude the prayer part of the argument and jump in with an explanation that god blesses us with life, which has nothing to do with my question and then you further elaborate with more non sequiturs. <BR/><BR/>Point blank question. Does god answer prayers, that are prayed by other religions? If a Hindu prayed to Brahma to bring back his dead baby, would god jump in and do it?<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "Keep focused Harvey, We are talking about suffering -- not your interpretation, that life is a blessing. Once again you avoid and diverge."<BR/><BR/><I>[Obviously staying focused or identifying focus is not a strong point for you, please stick to your most capable assets and best arguments...ooh, I forgot, there are none...]</I><BR/><BR/>Wasting time with more bullshit, avoiding and diverging.<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~3. Does god answer the prayers and intervene to eradicate suffering and miraculously bring back dead babies, of other religions?<BR/><BR/><I>[God being good answers all prayer prayed to HIM. Do you read others mail or intercept emails that are not yours? Goodness is displayed in cultures and societies that don’t know God because HIS grace has been revealed and given to ALL men and his mercy is upon each one daily, including you]</I> <BR/><BR/>*Yawn*, unbelievable. In your scramble brain logic you propose god answers prayers but you don't answer if he brings dead babies back to life, when asked to by other religions. I'll ask again, does god answer the prayers of other religions by not only listening to the prayer, but by his action of bringing the dead baby back to life?<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~4. Also when other religions pray to their god and one of their dead babies comes back to life, was it an act of god, or a delusion that their god intervened or a happy coincidental, outcome?<BR/><BR/><I>[Name some that prayed and others came back to life and let’s examine each on it’s own merit…I’m waiting]</I><BR/> <BR/>You know as well as I do this was a hypothetical question. It does not need real life examples to give it merit. Out of the thousands and thousands of other religions and throughout history, another couple prayed to their god to bring their baby back to life and it happened. Contextually it is a different religion to yours, they prayed to their god and their baby came back to life. Is it because your god intervened? Is it because they are delusional or is it because it was a happy coincidence. <BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "I'll have to do better, huh? You only have ignorance, delusion, and superstition to offer me and none of it comforts or helps me, in any way, which means you have zero to offer me. The bullshit you spew is convoluted, nonsense, that only, makes sense in the religious omelet of your myopic, mind and you continually and habitually skirt the issues. Your arrogance is dwarfed by your bullshit pat answers and you are worthy of no respect."<BR/><BR/><I>[That’s right dig a little deeper...still not there yet and I’m not impressed!]</I><BR/><BR/>Sconnor~If my lack of belief in a personal god and disgust for religion, in general, wasn't completely solidified, you -- Harvey Christian -- just cemented it for me; and you prove, once and for all, that you are nothing but a pathetic, insecure, waste of skin and oxygen – bound by inadequacies and shortcomings -- who uses the supposed, voice of god -- as your own -- to elevate yourself, above others, while wallowing in a false sense of security and a bogus sense of superiority and authority. Again I say, If god is using you, to minister to me, then both you and your god are morbidly, incompetent!<BR/><BR/><I>[And your communication skills are a little above competence I suppose??? Still not impressed...You wouldn't last ONE day dregging the trenches I do...you have no idea-(LOL)Sconnor I’m beginning to believe that you’re overrated!]</I><BR/><BR/>Yeah, I can tell <I><B>I'm not striking a nerve at all.</B></I> <BR/><BR/><I>You wouldn't last ONE day dregging the trenches I do...you have no idea-(LOL)Sconnor I’m beginning to believe that you’re overrated!]</I><BR/> <BR/>... said the man with the over-inflated ego.<BR/><BR/>Sconnor (on a previous answer)"In your mind, maybe."<BR/><BR/><I>[Obviously not in what’s left of yours...</I><BR/><BR/>Snap! very articulate comeback, well said, very witty!<BR/><BR/><I>when one doesn’t want to know the truth one cannot find truth, but when one walks in the truth that is made available to them truth becomes much more abundant]</I><BR/><BR/>Preposterous. I do not sit on my ass, wallowing in complacency. I have been on an obsessive search ever since my son died. Just because I don't accept your myopic, bullshit truth, doesn't predispose me to not wanting to know the truth.<BR/><BR/><B>Believe those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it -- Andre Gide</B><BR/><BR/>And if that quote isn't clear, you're the one wrapped in a delusional cloak, of the one and only truth -- that I doubt greatly.<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~5. Explain why it's OK for your all-loving god to cause such misery and crippling grief caused by the after-effects of god killing people or ordering barbarians to kill people.<BR/><BR/><I>[First God DID NOT cause misery. Unbelief, rebellion, and disobedience (aka SIN) and man’s choice of SIN did that...so your whole premise is baseless]</I><BR/><BR/><B>Ecc. 7:14 -- In the day of prosperity be joyful, but in the day of adversity consider: God also hath set the one over against the other, to the end that man should find nothing after him.</B> <BR/><BR/>Which means: When times are good, you should be cheerful; when times are bad, think what it means. God makes them both to keep us from knowing what will happen next. <BR/><BR/>The Hebrew word for "Adversity" is "[r '', meaning, bad, evil bad, disagreeable, malignant bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery) <BR/><BR/>Reference -- <A HREF="http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=07451&version=kjv" REL="nofollow"> BIBLE CROSSWALK </A><BR/><BR/>Also if god was not there who would have smote all the first born of Egypt? I know you have a difficult time with hypothetical but try really hard and think of a non-evasive, answer.<BR/><BR/>Exodus 12:29 -- the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon<BR/><BR/>Reference -- <A HREF="http://bible.crosswalk.com/InterlinearBible/bible.cgi?word=Exodus+12%3A29§ion=1&version=kjv&new=1&oq=&NavBook=ec&NavGo=7&NavCurrentChapter=7" REL="nofollow"> BIBLE CROSSWALK </A><BR/><BR/>And after god smote (hkn -- to strike, smite, hit, beat, slay, kill ) the first born Egyptians -- the surviving families, the brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers, uncles and aunts, grandfathers and grandmothers all lived in misery -- unbearable anguish and grief -- because of god's actions.<BR/><BR/>Just because you emphasize god "DID NOT" cause misery -- doesn't make it true.<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~And you speaking for god is not recognized, thusly, you have no authority to even utter that statement. You do not possess any special knowledge of god or his morals. And the knowledge you think you have is creative interpretation, coupled with deluded imaginings, based on your idiosyncratic views, of your spurious, bible. Get it through your thick head, you have zero authority, with me. Anything you say about god carries no weight. <BR/><BR/><I>[And how do you know this? And what is your basis for this knowledge?]</I><BR/><BR/>Oh I'm sorry does god hang out with you or does he talk -- with your voice -- in your head? The important thing to remember is I do not recognize you as an authority, nor does the bullshit you spew come directly from god. Your nothing but a bullshit artist, another deluded, ass; the equivalent of an ignorant, sweaty preacher, in a cheap suit, proselytizing on a street corner. You know the ones -- where everyone points at them and laughs, while the psycho-preacher is oblivious and continues to vomit up unsubstantiated, idiosyncratic, religious, nonsense, deep in a delusional orgasm.<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~HE has authored life without your assistance...if he takes it IT'S HIS to take no matter how we feel about it.<BR/>That's your dumb-ass argument, that doesn't address the god of the bible, who causes his earthly children to suffer, egregiously, in grief, because he killed people or ordered the killing of others.<BR/><BR/><I>[You and your posterior are not the object of the conversation, but all one has to do is let you ramble aimlessly so that you can show that posterior for what it is...please try to produce something at least beneficial to the reader next time.]</I><BR/><BR/>Which is just your way of relinquishing by diverging, because you can't argue the specifics of a bible god killing his earthly children causing thousands and thousands of the survivors to mourn in misery for the loss of their loved ones. <BR/><BR/>Sconnor~6. Is it your assertion, that your all-loving god -- the one who created life has a right to cause you to suffer in egregious pain? <BR/><BR/><I>[ABSOLUTELY and there is no army THAT CAN STOP him if he so wills]</I> <BR/><BR/>Unbelievable. Then every vile, unimaginable, reprehensible, act that god could perpetrate, is perfectly all right and condoned by you?<BR/><BR/>Oh and your god had a hard time driving out this army.<BR/><BR/><B>Judges 1:19 -- And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.</B> <BR/><BR/>Sconnor~7. And how far are you willing to take it? Since god created my 7 year old daughter, is it HIS right to anally rape her and smear shit on her face, for the rest of her life?<BR/><BR/><I>[That is a psychotic question from a psychotic mind and since there is no precedent set ANWHERE in which God anally rapes or authorizes anal raping. The argument is lacking and is only an emotional strawman you’ve constructed to medicate yourself…TRY AGAIN.</I> <BR/><BR/>How dare you insinuate, that I used this example to soothe my emotions or feed my libido. It is a perfect example -- lewd and vile -- to make my point. I know it is a vile example. Just because I bring it up does not make me a psychotic. There are thousands of examples that are even more vile. This is hyperbole to be sure and another hypothetical you can't answer. I knew you would diverge and use the, "It's not in god's nature argument".<BR/><BR/>Evidently, there <I>are</I> limits to what your god could inflict.<BR/><BR/><I>John or Lee You OUGHT to be ashamed for letting this one go…I see DC is full of sensationalists and grandstanders at any cost]</I><BR/><BR/>Stop Pussy-whining -- now you have to resort to tattle-telling?<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~8. Or do you have limitations on what is acceptable for a supreme being to do to his earthly children?<BR/>Don't give me the bullshit pat answers, like, god would never do that or god is not capable of doing that, it would go against his nature. <BR/><BR/><I>[MN says if it happed before it can happen again right? God has NEVER encouraged or allowed the psychotic events that your SIN nature conjures up, therefore it is not likely to be a future event...strawman!]</I><BR/><BR/>You already set limitations on what your god can do to his earthly children -- you just can't admit it.<BR/><BR/><I>[No, I don’t claim to be helping you at all...I just wanna see how overrated you actually are, obviously you need to vent, and you could be telling a lie using a tragic event to grandstand...I wanna be front line and center so that world can better see the depth and emptiness of a godless heart as it exposes itself.]</I> <BR/><BR/>F-you Harvey, you deluded psycho. Now your delusions of grandeur stifle you with suspicion. If this is any indication how you minister to the sick, grieving and suffering, again both you and your god are, apathetic, incompetent, malfeasants.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.dailystandard.com/archive/obit_single.php?rec_id=491" REL="nofollow"> Connor's Obit. </A><BR/><BR/><I>[You do that yourself, you’ve already said you’re crazy, (and demonstrated it somewhat) I’m just looking and asking you to talk about it]</I><BR/><BR/>I, most assuredly, <B>do not</B> need <I>your</I> kind of help, nor do you have the proclivity or expertise to deal with the complex issues of my grief. I have sought the help I needed. This is the ultimate straw-man for you Harvey, but I can assure you my mental faculties are intact and I would appreciate that you do not use my grief as a leverage tool -- it is an unfair practice and again it does not forward your many illogical arguments.<BR/><BR/>Do yourself a favor, read these excerpts from The Death of a Child -- The Grief of Parents: A Lifetime Journey. Maybe you can learn something. <BR/><BR/><B>It is frequently said that the grief of bereaved parents is the most intense grief known. When a child dies, parents feel that a part of them has died, that a vital and core part of them has been ripped away. Bereaved parents indeed do feel that the death of their child is "the ultimate deprivation" (Arnold and Gemma 1994, 40). The grief caused by their child's death is not only painful but profoundly disorienting-children are not supposed to die. These parents are forced to confront an extremely painful and stressful paradox; they are faced with a situation in which they must deal both with the grief caused by their child's death and with their inherent need to continue to live their own lives as fully as possible. Thus, bereaved parents must deal with the contradictory burden of wanting to be free of this overwhelming pain and yet needing it as a reminder of the child who died.<BR/><BR/>But there are also many unique ways that bereaved parents express their grief. These individual parental responses are influenced by many factors including the person's life experiences, coping skills, personality, age, gender, family and cultural background, support and/or belief systems, and even the death or the type of death that occurred.<BR/><BR/>Moreover, those who seek (Harvey) to comfort grieving parents need to recognize and understand the complexities of the parents' emotions and should avoid relying on preconceived ideas about the way a couple is supposed to grieve if their child dies. Reactions of grieving parents may seem overly intense, self-absorbing, contradictory, or even puzzling. For bereaved parents, the death of a child is such an overwhelming event that their responses may often be baffling not only to others but to themselves as well.</B><BR/><BR/>So yeah, crazy. But I am fully capable of engaging you.<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ 9. And yet, god keeps creating more earthly children, sentencing them to endure egregious pain and unimaginable suffering. EXPLAIN THIS!<BR/><BR/><I>[SIN is the cause of all suffering NOT God...All that God created was good and very good and there was no pain or suffering in it. Sin effects the genome and creates horrendous effects beyond human control in everyone small and great]</I><BR/><BR/>Bullshit diverging, again. Even if sin isn't an imaginary magical substitution for what is evil in the world, we are both in agreement egregious suffering inflicts the world -- the world is full of vile, horrible, suffering, and yet god keeps creating earthly children to send on to that abysmal planet, of suffering. Why does god keep creating more earthly children, that he sends into this sinful world?<BR/><BR/>It is painfully, obvious, you have nothing but delusion and skewed rationalizations and your game plan is browbeating me with evasive equivocations and loquacious misdirection -- you have not answered one question honestly, without equivocating, on a mass scale.<BR/><BR/>I'm now waiting for the typical dim-witted christian, excuse, that <I>"you answered all the questions, you just choose not to see the answer".</I><BR/><BR/>--S.sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-44306878905331438562008-08-09T03:09:00.000-04:002008-08-09T03:09:00.000-04:00Harvey, I'm glad to hear the witness of your wife...Harvey, I'm glad to hear the witness of your wife's faith. Thanks for sharing!<BR/><BR/>Peace,<BR/>3MManifesting Mini Me (MMM)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08250513504254425163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-62726113498385971622008-08-09T01:04:00.000-04:002008-08-09T01:04:00.000-04:00Harvey, I'm grateful for the witness of your wife'...Harvey, I'm grateful for the witness of your wife's faith. Thanks for sharing that!<BR/><BR/>Peace to you!<BR/>3MManifesting Mini Me (MMM)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08250513504254425163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-81599802732845750212008-08-08T19:49:00.000-04:002008-08-08T19:49:00.000-04:003m,As I said before, some use their pain as justif...3m,<BR/><BR/><I>As I said before, some use their pain as justification to presume all sorts of things and attack others. But, after all, one never knows who one is talking to on the 'net...</I><BR/><BR/>Playing Jr. psychologist, again? I know you are very use to jumping to conclusions and pulling shit out of your ass, with absolutely nothing to back up your claims except delusions, faith, and flights of fancy, but as usual, your generalization is off the mark and completely in error -- your judgment, in the matter, is severely lacking. My attacks are justified and are made in response to Harvey's lame, absurd and insensitive arguments and his attempts of answering by being evasive and diverging. My points are germane and salient and yet Harvey still has to play games -- much like you do -- and run-around the issues, because, let's be honest, he doesn't have a platform to stand on and he has no clean way of salvaging god's reputation, specifically on the points I make. My son has been dead for over a year and a half and yes I do get angry from time to time, which is absolutely normal -- it is a very complicated situation -- but I don't expect you to understand, unless maybe you read the article, I made available for you. I can assure you, my pain plays no part in my responses to Harvey -- he <I><B>alone</B></I> conjures up my ire. With this I make a simple request, please, do not burden me with your expectations or preconceived notions on how I am suppose to or not suppose to act, in regards to my pain and the death of my son. Leave it be.<BR/> <BR/>These questions, still, loom<BR/> <BR/>1. How, exactly, does god love us? <BR/><BR/>2. How are you privy to this information, while myself and others are not?<BR/><BR/>3. Can you tell us how god loves us, without referring to the bible?<BR/><BR/>4. How exactly does god love his enemies?<BR/><BR/>You believe in these statements. Evidently, your faith isn't strong enough to stand up to scrutiny. <BR/><BR/>--S.sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-17511128618370076112008-08-08T18:36:00.000-04:002008-08-08T18:36:00.000-04:00Thanks 3M, I appreciate it and your observations a...Thanks 3M, I appreciate it and your observations are right on point without a doubt. I have appreciated how you have shared your personal experiences to let these and others know that what they are enthralled with and by is not unique and that God can destroy any darkness…Keep up the good work. <BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "1. How, exactly, does god love us? <BR/><BR/>[God loves us in spite of our faults and pernicious ways based on his own choice to do so ]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~2. How are you privy to this information, while myself and others are not?<BR/><BR/>[His love is manifest to all mankind and is not hidden from anyone. We partake of it everyday by waking, moving breathing and a host of other small and large things.]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~3. Can you tell us how god loves us, without referring to the bible?<BR/><BR/>[Should we ask you to define laquatious without referring to a dictionary? Although your gymnastics are absurd and unreasonable one stark display of God’s love toward you is that we would even meet and talk. Admittedly you’re sick, I know a physician and a referral is in order, that’s an example of the Love Of God]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~4. How exactly does god love his enemies?"<BR/><BR/>[He loves his enemies by giving them ample warning before they bring destruction upon themselves. A little like an Ali-Cooney fight, he only asks that you listen to the warning signs first. He does this through the proliferation of truth and open, clear and objective rebuke at times. “Love is NEVER having to say you’re sorry”]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ 1. So explain to me why your god designed the umbilical cord with such a devastating flaw?<BR/><BR/>[Can you FIRST explain why natural selection or any other naturalistic process has not eliminated the problem?]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~Wrong. In your defense of prayer, supposedly your faith was all tapped out, but your wife's unwavering faith, sent the right message to god so that your son miraculously, came back to life.<BR/><BR/>[You can’t call me wrong because you have no basis and this is not a right or wrong question or answer. My wife held to the promise that God made to her 3 years prior even when the Dr. said it was impossible for her to have a child…Get a clue.] <BR/><BR/>Sconnor~2. Did your wife's faith, in god, bring back your son from death or not?<BR/><BR/>[The promise of God who cannot lie brought my son back all my wife did was exercise her belief through trust, this only displayed her level of trust and belief, not a determination of the eventual outcome.]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "So, evidently god won't listen when a Hindu family prays to Brahma, when they are suffering? <BR/><BR/>[So evidently you suffer reading too..I said, “God hears and listens to all and he blesses all everyday with LIFE, and certainly things that none could ever deserve or ask for and further everything in life points to him.”]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "Keep focused Harvey, We are talking about suffering -- not your interpretation, that life is a blessing. Once again you avoid and diverge."<BR/><BR/>[Obviously staying focused or identifying focus is not a strong point for you, please stick to your most capable assets and best arguments...ooh, I forgot, there are none...]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~3. Does god answer the prayers and intervene to eradicate suffering and miraculously bring back dead babies, of other religions?<BR/><BR/>[God being good answers all prayer prayed to HIM. Do you read others mail or intercept emails that are not yours? Goodness is displayed in cultures and societies that don’t know God because HIS grace has been revealed and given to ALL men and his mercy is upon each one daily, including you] <BR/><BR/>Sconnor~4. Also when other religions pray to their god and one of their dead babies comes back to life, was it an act of god, or a delusion that their god intervened or a happy coincidental, outcome?<BR/><BR/>[Name some that prayed and others came back to life and let’s examine each on it’s own merit…I’m waiting]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "I'll have to do better, huh? You only have ignorance, delusion, and superstition to offer me and none of it comforts or helps me, in any way, which means you have zero to offer me. The bullshit you spew is convoluted, nonsense, that only, makes sense in the religious omelet of your myopic, mind and you continually and habitually skirt the issues. Your arrogance is dwarfed by your bullshit pat answers and you are worthy of no respect."<BR/><BR/>[That’s right dig a little deeper...still not there yet and I’m not impressed!]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~If my lack of belief in a personal god and disgust for religion, in general, wasn't completely solidified, you -- Harvey Christian -- just cemented it for me; and you prove, once and for all, that you are nothing but a pathetic, insecure, waste of skin and oxygen – bound by inadequacies and shortcomings -- who uses the supposed, voice of god -- as your own -- to elevate yourself, above others, while wallowing in a false sense of security and a bogus sense of superiority and authority. Again I say, If god is using you, to minister to me, then both you and your god are morbidly, incompetent!<BR/><BR/>[And your communication skills are a little above competence I suppose??? Still not impressed...You wouldn't last ONE day dregging the trenches I do...you have no idea-(LOL)Sconnor I’m beginning to believe that you’re overrated!]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor (on a previous answer)"In your mind, maybe."<BR/><BR/>[Obviously not in what’s left of yours...when one doesn’t want to know the truth one cannot find truth, but when one walks in the truth that is made available to them truth becomes much more abundant]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~5. Explain why it's OK for your all-loving god to cause such misery and crippling grief caused by the after-effects of god killing people or ordering barbarians to kill people.<BR/><BR/>[First God DID NOT cause misery. Unbelief, rebellion, and disobedience (aka SIN) and man’s choice of SIN did that...so your whole premise is baseless]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~And you speaking for god is not recognized, thusly, you have no authority to even utter that statement. You do not possess any special knowledge of god or his morals. And the knowledge you think you have is creative interpretation, coupled with deluded imaginings, <BR/><BR/>[And how do you know this? And what is your basis for this knowledge?]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~based on your idiosyncratic views, of your spurious, bible. Get it through your thick head, you have zero authority, with me. Anything you say about god carries no weight. <BR/><BR/>[So I suppose you carry some...weight (of SIN in your soul) maybe but other than that...OVERRATED!]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~HE has authored life without your assistance...if he takes it IT'S HIS to take no matter how we feel about it.<BR/>That's your dumb-ass argument, that doesn't address the god of the bible, who causes his earthly children to suffer, egregiously, in grief, because he killed people or ordered the killing of others.<BR/><BR/>[You and your posterior are not the object of the conversation, but all one has to do is let you ramble aimlessly so that you can show that posterior for what it is...please try to produce something at least beneficial to the reader next time.]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~6. Is it your assertion, that your all-loving god -- the one who created life has a right to cause you to suffer in egregious pain? <BR/><BR/>[ABSOLUTELY and there is no army THAT CAN STOP him if he so wills] <BR/><BR/>Sconnor~7. And how far are you willing to take it? Since god created my 7 year old daughter, is it HIS right to anally rape her and smear shit on her face, for the rest of her life?<BR/><BR/>[That is a psychotic question from a psychotic mind and since there is no precedent set ANWHERE in which God anally rapes or authorizes anal raping. The argument is lacking and is only an emotional strawman you’ve constructed to medicate yourself…TRY AGAIN. <BR/><BR/>John or Lee You OUGHT to be ashamed for letting this one go…I see DC is full of sensationalists and grandstanders at any cost]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~8. Or do you have limitations on what is acceptable for a supreme being to do to his earthly children?<BR/>Don't give me the bullshit pat answers, like, god would never do that or god is not capable of doing that, it would go against his nature. <BR/><BR/>[MN says if it happed before it can happen again right? God has NEVER encouraged or allowed the psychotic events that your SIN nature conjures up, therefore it is not likely to be a future event...strawman!]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~I just know you will weasel out of this and skirt the issue, once again.<BR/><BR/>[was that weasel enough for ya?]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~Let me guess you think you are helping in some, idiotic, delusional, way. <BR/><BR/>[No, I don’t claim to be helping you at all...I just wanna see how overrated you actually are, obviously you need to vent, and you could be telling a lie using a tragic event to grandstand...I wanna be front line and center so that world can better see the depth and emptiness of a godless heart as it exposes itself.] <BR/><BR/>Sconnor~More of your deluded psychological idiocy. Spare me the psychological analysis. <BR/><BR/>[You do that yourself, you’ve already said you’re crazy, (and demonstrated it somewhat) I’m just looking and asking you to talk about it]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ 9. And yet, god keeps creating more earthly children, sentencing them to endure egregious pain and unimaginable suffering. EXPLAIN THIS!<BR/><BR/>[SIN is the cause of all suffering NOT God...All that God created was good and very good and there was no pain or suffering in it. Sin effects the genome and creates horrendous effects beyond human control in everyone small and great]<BR/><BR/>Peace Sconnor.District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-72324607760173394302008-08-08T10:12:00.000-04:002008-08-08T10:12:00.000-04:00Hi Harry - Just a follow-up to my last comment - I...Hi Harry - Just a follow-up to my last comment - I wasn't implying that you're a hypocrite - It just occurred to me that that could have been implied. Also, I don't know if you happened to watch Larry King last night, but it was a very compelling program about a popular Christian singer whose daughter was accidentally killed by her brother.<BR/><BR/>As I said before, some use their pain as justification to presume all sorts of things and attack others. But, after all, one never knows who one is talking to on the 'net...<BR/><BR/><BR/>3MManifesting Mini Me (MMM)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08250513504254425163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-15177220096845432522008-08-08T06:00:00.000-04:002008-08-08T06:00:00.000-04:00Harvey,Sconnor~ "Ahhhh, the umbilical cord -- one ...Harvey,<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "Ahhhh, the umbilical cord -- one of god's intelligent designs"<BR/><BR/><I>[Also, could be one of those naturalistic blind chances, purposeless kind of things too couldn't it?]</I><BR/><BR/>I'm not the one who believes in an intelligent designer --you are. <BR/><BR/>1. So explain to me why your god designed the umbilical cord with such a devastating flaw?<BR/><BR/>On faith -- <I>[No that's that baggage you're carrying that says that to you, read my statement carefully, at no point was there a comparison made only a statement of fact. There is no "wrong" faith in Christ. That's a burden I don't bear and one that you can't. Being thankful for a successful outcome to anything only creates a greater humility and willingness to serve others, not self]</I><BR/><BR/>Wrong. In your defense of prayer, supposedly your faith was all tapped out, but your wife's unwavering faith, sent the right message to god so that your son miraculously, came back to life. <BR/><BR/>2. Did your wife's faith, in god, bring back your son from death or not?<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "So, evidently god won't listen when a Hindu family prays to Brahma, when they are suffering? What about the Muslim family, the Buddhist family, the non-religious family? Does god turn a blind eye to these people "<BR/><BR/><I>[God hears and listens to all and he blesses all everyday with LIFE, and certainly things that none could ever deserve or ask for and further everything in life points to him.]</I><BR/><BR/>Keep focused Harvey, We are talking about suffering -- not your interpretation, that life is a blessing. Once again you avoid and diverge.<BR/><BR/>3. Does god answer the prayers and intervene to eradicate suffering and miraculously bring back dead babies, of other religions? <BR/><BR/>4. Also when other religions pray to their god and one of their dead babies comes back to life, was it an act of god, or a delusion that their god intervened or a happy coincidental, outcome?<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "Are you beginning to get the idea, now, that god didn't send you to minister to me?"<BR/><BR/><I>[NO! You'll have to do much better than what I'm seeing so far...and nothing in life is by chance]</I><BR/><BR/>Then your delusions of grandeur are deep. <BR/>I'll have to do better, huh? You only have ignorance, delusion, and superstition to offer me and none of it comforts or helps me, in any way, which means you have zero to offer me. The bullshit you spew is convoluted, nonsense, that only, makes sense in the religious omelet of your myopic, mind and you continually and habitually skirt the issues. Your arrogance is dwarfed by your bullshit pat answers and you are worthy of no respect.<BR/><BR/>If my lack of belief in a personal god and disgust for religion, in general, wasn't completely solidified, you -- Harvey Christian -- just cemented it for me; and you prove, once and for all, that you are nothing but a pathetic, insecure, waste of skin and oxygen – bound by inadequacies and shortcomings -- who uses the supposed, voice of god -- as your own -- to elevate yourself, above others, while wallowing in a false sense of security and a bogus sense of superiority and authority. Again I say, If god is using you, to minister to me, then both you and your god are morbidly, incompetent!<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "I, also, am still waiting for you to -- without equivocating -- address, specifically, to god's negligence -- in the bible -- not realizing, that by killing or ordering the deaths of so many, that he would synonymously, inflict undeserved suffering -- profound, devastating, grief -- on his earthly children, who survived the many onslaughts -- whether they were a "just" punishments or ludicrous ways to save babies and children from the evils of other religions -- god still left indiscriminate suffering and monumental grief in the wake of the destruction. God caused the suffering of untold millions."<BR/><BR/><I>[Already addressed...</I><BR/><BR/>In your mind, maybe.<BR/><BR/>5. Explain why it's OK for your all-loving god to cause such misery and crippling grief caused by the after-effects of god killing people or ordering barbarians to kill people. <BR/>You are a liar. You have not answered it.<BR/><BR/><I>...and your moral court is NOT greater than God.</I><BR/><BR/>And you speaking for god is not recognized, thusly, you have no authority to even utter that statement. You do not possess any special knowledge of god or his morals. And the knowledge you think you have is creative interpretation, coupled with deluded imaginings, based on your idiosyncratic views, of your spurious, bible. Get it through your thick head, you have zero authority, with me. Anything you say about god carries no weight. <BR/><BR/><I>HE has authored life without your assistance...if he takes it IT'S HIS to take no matter how we feel about it.</I><BR/><BR/>That's your dumb-ass argument, that doesn't address the god of the bible, who causes his earthly children to suffer, egregiously, in grief, because he killed people or ordered the killing of others.<BR/><BR/>6. Is it your assertion, that your all-loving god -- the one who created life has a right to cause you to suffer in egregious pain? <BR/><BR/>7. And how far are you willing to take it? Since god created my 7 year old daughter, is it HIS right to anally rape her and smear shit on her face, for the rest of her life?<BR/><BR/>8. Or do you have limitations on what is acceptable for a supreme being to do to his earthly children?<BR/><BR/>Don't give me the bullshit pat answers, like, god would never do that or god is not capable of doing that, it would go against his nature. <BR/><BR/>I just know you will weasel out of this and skirt the issue, once again.<BR/><BR/><I>Vent some more sailor...but this time go deep, I wanna really see what's in there!]</I><BR/><BR/>Let me guess you think you are helping in some, idiotic, delusional, way. More of your deluded psychological idiocy. Spare me the psychological analysis. Evidently, your delusions of religious authority cross over into the behavioral sciences and yet they are still both entirely inept.<BR/><BR/>And I noticed you conveniently avoided this altogether. Here it is again for you to avoid or skirt, or ramble on about without ever addressing it, specifically.<BR/><BR/><I>There are a lot of questions and things that people suffer and they are ALL WITHOUT EXCEPTION a result of SIN. So God is never and has never been negligent in any of his ways...they are past us and past our rationalizations and understandings.</I> <BR/><BR/>9. And yet, god keeps creating more earthly children, sentencing them to endure egregious pain and unimaginable suffering. EXPLAIN THIS!<BR/><BR/>--S.sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-25021598745375693362008-08-08T05:46:00.000-04:002008-08-08T05:46:00.000-04:003m,They view death as a condemnation and do not al...3m,<BR/><BR/><I>They view death as a condemnation and do not allow themselves to be healed of grief and hostility. I was one of those people myself.</I> <BR/><BR/>Oh, and you're an expert on grieving now? I'll tell you what you read this article <A HREF="http://www.athealth.com/consumer/disorders/parentalgrief.html" REL="nofollow"> The Death of a Child -- The Grief of the Parents: A Lifetime Journey </A> and find out how monumentally apathetic and ignorant -- no strike that -- how monumentally stupid you are. (You might even learn something there, too, Harvey)<BR/> <BR/><I>but that's because God isn't a hypocrite like people can be - He really does love His enemies.</I><BR/><BR/>Oh, goody, another question, I can add to my list that you avoid like the plague.<BR/> <BR/>1. How, exactly, does god love us? <BR/><BR/>2. How are you privy to this information, while myself and others are not?<BR/><BR/>3. Can you tell us how god loves us, without referring to the bible?<BR/> <BR/>4. How exactly does god love his enemies?<BR/> <BR/>Very simple questions. All I'm doing is asking you to substantiate your claims and thus far you have not done so. Kind of gives the impression you just pull this shit out of thin air, speak it, but you don't know why or how to justify it.<BR/><BR/>--S.sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-64017339499238586172008-08-08T05:20:00.000-04:002008-08-08T05:20:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-85410246594998026212008-08-08T02:46:00.000-04:002008-08-08T02:46:00.000-04:00Harvey, some people use their pain as a permission...Harvey, some people use their pain as a permission slip to punish and condemn others, thinking that is the way to alleviate suffering. They view death as a condemnation and do not allow themselves to be healed of grief and hostility. I was one of those people myself. <BR/><BR/>There is pain and suffering in this world - while some may refer to this as the "problem of evil" Jesus acknowledged this as part of the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and He didn't label it a "problem" - He saw it as a spiritual virus, in need of spiritual salvation and grace. It's evident that there is death, evil and suffering - but that's because God isn't a hypocrite like people can be - He really does love His enemies.<BR/><BR/>Take care Harvey!<BR/>3MManifesting Mini Me (MMM)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08250513504254425163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-74389612176152068072008-08-08T02:00:00.000-04:002008-08-08T02:00:00.000-04:00Sconnor~ "Ahhhh, the umbilical cord -- one of god'...Sconnor~ "Ahhhh, the umbilical cord -- one of god's intelligent designs"<BR/><BR/>[Also, could be one of those naturalistic blind chances, purposeless kind of things too couldn't it?]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "And that's what's needed -- faith? That's the secret to getting god off his fat ass and actually answering the cosmic phone? Are you, fucking, telling me that, all the people, who prayed for my son and my family were doing it wrong?"<BR/><BR/>[No that's that baggage you're carrying that says that to you, read my statement carefully, at no point was there a comparison made only a statement of fact. There is no "wrong" faith in Christ. That's a burden I don't bear and one that you can't. Being thankful for a successful outcome to anything only creates a greater humility and willingness to serve others, not self]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "So, evidently god won't listen when a Hindu family prays to Brahma, when they are suffering? What about the Muslim family, the Buddhist family, the non-religious family? Does god turn a blind eye to these people "<BR/><BR/>[God hears and listens to all and he blesses all everyday with LIFE, and certainly things that none could ever deserve or ask for and further everything in life points to him.]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "Are you beginning to get the idea, now, that god didn't send you to minister to me?"<BR/><BR/>[NO! You'll have to do much better than what I'm seeing so far...and nothing in life is by chance]<BR/><BR/>Sconnor~ "I, also, am still waiting for you to -- without equivocating -- address, specifically, to god's negligence -- in the bible -- not realizing, that by killing or ordering the deaths of so many, that he would synonymously, inflict undeserved suffering -- profound, devastating, grief -- on his earthly children, who survived the many onslaughts -- whether they were a "just" punishments or ludicrous ways to save babies and children from the evils of other religions -- god still left indiscriminate suffering and monumental grief in the wake of the destruction. God caused the suffering of untold millions."<BR/><BR/>[Already addressed, and your moral court is NOT greater than God. HE has authored life without your assistance...if he takes it IT'S HIS to take no matter how we feel about it...blatant, yes...but it's the way it is...We are all subject and noone has a free pass, God is not some cosmic belhop waiting for our demand...you got it twisted...but that's ok...<BR/><BR/>Vent some more sailor...but this time go deep, I wanna really see what's in there!]<BR/><BR/>Peace.District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-43577508197820255052008-08-08T01:17:00.000-04:002008-08-08T01:17:00.000-04:00Harvey,...Now speaking of what prayer can do...my ...Harvey,<BR/><BR/><I>...Now speaking of what prayer can do...my baby was BORN DEAD.Umbilical cord wrapped around his neck TWO times..That's right for all of you that have exited God out...I gave up on having a living son, my wife while cut open and bleeding had the faith and trust in God until he breated and his heart beat...Then he was perfectly normal on all tests and is normal today.</I> <BR/><BR/>Ahhhh, the umbilical cord -- one of god's <I><B>intelligent</B></I> designs. If anyone on this planet had a design flaw, that atrocious, that causes the deaths of thousands of babies a year and/or causes thousands of babies to become physically or mentally incapacitate, to suffer for years, would be held in contempt and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.<BR/> <BR/>And that's what's needed -- faith? That's the secret to getting god off his fat ass and actually answering the cosmic phone? Are you, fucking, telling me that, all the people, who prayed for my son and my family were doing it wrong? When my son was diagnosed with leukemia (his own blood, poisoning him) we prayed every minute, of every day. Our church put him on the prayer list and other churches followed suit. We gave my son a blanket, that was prayed over and was blessed by our pastor. We held prayer circles around Connor, while he was in his hospital bed, as he clutched a form fitting cross, in his hand. Friends, family, and people who we didn't even know prayed -- thousands of people -- and <I><B>none</B></I> of them had <B>faith</B>? Is this <I><B>why</B></I> my son suffered for months and then egregiously, in the hospital, where he was hooked up to machines keeping him alive? Is this why we suffer, still, to this day? Is this why there is so much sick, unimaginable, suffering in the world, that god's too busy to answer us? <BR/><BR/><B>This is why your son lives and my son suffers, for months only to die?</B><BR/><BR/>If god is using you, to minister to me, then both you and your god are morbidly, incompetent!<BR/><BR/>So, evidently god won't listen when a Hindu family prays to Brahma, when they are suffering? What about the Muslim family, the Buddhist family, the non-religious family? Does god turn a blind eye to these people -- his other earthly children, because they don't have <B>faith</B>? This begs the question, do they ever come out of dire situations and make the extraordinary claim, their god answered their prayers? We know these people don't have faith in your one and only, true, christian, god. So what is it? A delusion that their god intervened or a happy coincidental, outcome?<BR/> <BR/>Oh but Harvey Christian, because he's got the right god, on the cosmic phone and because he has faith, why, his god jumps right into action, while the rest of the suffering world is damned -- aren't you one, lucky, motherfucker.<BR/> <BR/>Are you beginning to get the idea, now, that god didn't send you to minister to me? Are you beginning to understand that your bullshit is completely, meaningless and it only affects the mindless drones, you minister to? Are you beginning to see that those same sheep reinforce your delusions, that you are so steeped in?<BR/> <BR/>Your "praying miracle", hardly impresses me. The thing is, you can't discern, if the medical circumstances allowed your child to come out of it unscathed, compared to a supernatural intervention by a supreme being, that changed the laws of nature. Honestly, this just comes off as a happy co-incidence. If your child was dead for days and the doctors and nurses could attest to this and miraculously, he came back to life, then that might be something to write home about, but as it stands right now, all you did was <I>assign</I> a miracle to nothing but an unusal but normal, medical outcome.<BR/> <BR/>And your "murder rate miracle" doesn't impress me either. There are an infinite amount of possibilities as to why murder rates go up and down, but I'll tell you what, if you ever have a stroke or a heart attack, by all means, pray to get better, in lieu of medical intervention.<BR/> <BR/><I>So in short...you walk with me and you'll be walking with somebody because I don't play, and I live what I preach and believe...I have been delivered from sin and this is REAL not a delusion.</I><BR/><BR/>And billions of Muslims claim to be saved and will posthumously, fly up to paradise, all claiming it to be REAL and not a delusion, either. Spare me your bullshit proselytizing.<BR/> <BR/><I>There are a lot of questions and things that people suffer and they are ALL WITHOUT EXCEPTION a result of SIN. So God is never and has never been negligent in any of his ways...they are past us and past our rationalizations and understandings.</I> <BR/> <BR/>And yet, god keeps creating more earthly children, sentencing them to endure egregious pain and unimaginable suffering. EXPLAIN THIS!<BR/> <BR/>--S.<BR/> <BR/>I, also, am still waiting for you to -- without equivocating -- address, specifically, to god's negligence -- in the bible -- not realizing, that by killing or ordering the deaths of so many, that he would synonymously, inflict undeserved suffering -- profound, devastating, grief -- on his earthly children, who survived the many onslaughts -- whether they were a "just" punishments or ludicrous ways to save babies and children from the evils of other religions -- god still left indiscriminate suffering and monumental grief in the wake of the destruction. God <I><B>caused</B></I> the suffering of untold millions.<BR/><BR/>--S.sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-79613639521907074242008-08-07T23:19:00.000-04:002008-08-07T23:19:00.000-04:00Sconnor~ "Now if you can refute, specifically to g...Sconnor~ "Now if you can refute, specifically to god's negligence, of not realizing, that by killing or ordering the deaths of so many, that he would synonymously inflict undeserved suffering -- profound, devastating, grief -- on his earthly children, who survived the many onslaughts -- I'm all ears."<BR/><BR/>[Sconnor, I don't expect you to lay down for anything that I have to offer, so you missed the point of my offer. There are some things that are common to humanity, so my idea is not to change you only apply what I know works...Now speaking of what prayer can do...my baby was BORN DEAD.Umbilical cord wrapped around his neck TWO times..That's right for all of you that have exited God out...I gave up on having a living son, my wife while cut open and bleeding had the faith and trust in God until he breated and his heart beat...Then he was perfectly normal on all tests and is normal today. <BR/><BR/>So I know you're hurt and I know I'm no better than Jesus, you'll persecute me and I've done NOTHING wrong either BUT I KNOW what God through prayer can and will do...I've also leaned through experience that God is not here to serve me....<BR/><BR/>Heck naturalism isn't here to serve you either. With naturalism it's all a matter of random processes and genetics with NO apology or explaination...<BR/><BR/>I have an understanding that God is soveriegn and every twist of the dagger of sin into human life only brings me one step closer to the ultimate goal. So yes, I pain like others, but I have assurance of my future...<BR/><BR/>There are a lot of questions and things that people suffer and they are ALL WITHOUT EXCEPTION a result of SIN. So God is never and has never been negligent in any of his ways...they are past us and past our rationalizations and understandings. <BR/><BR/>I am under NO obligation to you so don't get it twisted, that's a part of the ground I walk on and I learn to "shake the dust" well. As I said, Prayer changes things situations and people...and it also ministers to US that are left as a result of tragedy to sort out the pieces. So the very children you name I was one of them...you offer me no useful analogy and maybe you should find out who you're talking to before you suggest that I find out how to cope with things that I am personally acquainted with. <BR/><BR/>On another issue and point on the CITY RECORD...A year ago in our city murders were running off the hook...city officials and leaders did not know what to do. I called Christian leaders together for a prayer rally and march. We made spiritual declarations against the "powers of darkness". Before we did that event there were 3 murders that week...There has not been another week close to that since. There were other leaders that addressed the issues with open prayer and the culmination was a 40 day prayer vigil of all Christians coming together to address and pray for a reversal of crime....slightly over a year later there has only been 2 murders this year and two since the rally. Last year this time there were 15 murders, crime is down OVER 60-75% IN ALL categories...THESE ARE FACTS THAT I KNOW BECAUSE WE MEET WITH THE POLICE CHIEF AND THE CRIME STATISTICS AMAZED HIM AND ALL CITY OFFICIALS...<BR/><BR/>You know what this means? It means that someone's son is living today as a result of our efforts. Somebody has a LIFE that would have otherwise have died because of what God did through prayer...<BR/><BR/>So you and EVERY atheist in the world can vie against me, Christ and the Bible...I don't care and other Christians like me don't either...WE KNOW in whom we trust and that HE is WELL ABLE to do EXACTLY what he said. <BR/><BR/>No, everything doesn't always go our way, but God is in control no matter what...Speaking of all those situations in the hospital...that's part of who I minister to and that's me...I'm not an ivory tower Christian...I'm in the trenches...that's why I'm here, to shed some light in this dank darkness...<BR/><BR/>So in short...you walk with me and you'll be walking with somebody because I don't play, and I live what I preach and believe...I have been delivered from sin and this is REAL not a delusion.<BR/><BR/>Peace to you. <BR/><BR/>Also Dingo~ You and I are very passionate about issues and I know you especially love your family like me...I promise to draw the line in future convo to discussion of the issues only. I appreciate you even though you aren't the sharpest tool in the shed(LOL) Just kidding...Wish well to you and your family.<BR/><BR/>PeaceDistrict Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-37881874201869838012008-08-07T23:09:00.000-04:002008-08-07T23:09:00.000-04:00Harvey, Quick amendment: And where does Harvey get...Harvey,<BR/> <BR/>Quick amendment:<BR/> <BR/>And where does Harvey get his infinite knowledge, on all things and how they work, specifically, suffering in the world? From mythology, silly superstition and his idiosyncratic interpretation of scripture, all found in the wholly, spurious, bible. Then with all-together divine obtuseness, Harvey uses the supposed and construed, "words of god" -- as his own -- to push his delusional agendas, affording him a bogus sense of authority and a false sense of superiority.<BR/> <BR/>--S.sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-91375243238879581472008-08-07T21:36:00.000-04:002008-08-07T21:36:00.000-04:00Harvey,Let's be absolutely crystal clear, the only...Harvey,<BR/><BR/>Let's be absolutely crystal clear, the only thing you have to offer me is superstitious nonsense, morbid ignorance and delusions of grandeur. I've been down this path before. I went to the clergy for comfort -- two pastors from my church, a pastor from an evangelical church, a Lutheran pastor/therapist and a non-denominational pastor who had a profound Near Death Experience -- all of whom had vast and differing notions, that boiled down to meaningless verbal bullshit. I also went to the bible for comfort, which it did not afford me -- in fact, I was flabbergasted that a religion was based on this atrocious book. All my romanticized notions of god's benevolence was flushed down the toilet. I was enlightened and realized that up until that moment I have been lied to, by people like you.<BR/> <BR/>I also want to be perfectly clear, I in no way solicited your help and it is thoroughly denied. Your proposal of ministering to me, offered <A HREF="http://secularscott.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/bobs-praying-for-me-fervently/#comments" REL="nofollow"> at my blog </A> comes off as your god-ordained obligation, under the delusion you're doing god's work. No thanks.<BR/> <BR/>Harvey says, <I>I will submit this to you…your situation and that of your precious son was not what I was commenting about and is totally unrelated to God dealing with the SIN of Midian. I understand better now any negative feelings, but you must know that the events of the bible and the events of the life or your son and family cannot be and should not be reconciled in discovering this topic and subject, they are unrelated.</I> <BR/> <BR/>That is complete and utter bullshit. You simply avoid and dismiss the correlation I made because you do not have a tidy way of coming to terms with it.<BR/> <BR/>There are several examples (thousands of examples), in the bible, like the ones I offer, where god either kills his earthly children or orders their death, at the hands of barbarians, thus leaving monumental suffering in it's wake -- sin or no sin. Not only were innocent people dispatched, they also, suffered egregiously, in the process. Specifically, the remaining families, the brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers, who were not killed in cruel and barbaric ways are now left to suffer in their monumental grief. The same grief my family is crippled by today. <BR/> <BR/>Your loquacious rantings, said a whole lot of nothing and completely avoided my main argument.<BR/> <BR/>Now if you can refute, specifically to god's negligence, of not realizing, that by killing or ordering the deaths of so many, that he would synonymously inflict undeserved suffering -- profound, devastating, grief -- on his earthly children, who survived the many onslaughts -- I'm all ears.<BR/> <BR/>I await your many diverging/avoiding tactics, and convoluted reasoning.<BR/> <BR/>Harvey exclaims, at my blog, <I>And by the way, prayer does change things. I am a living witness of the fact.</I> <BR/><BR/>Fucking, hallelujah! Why don't you take your miracle-workin' prayer groups on the road if you believe in prayer, so much. The first place you, your wife and merry band of miracle workers could go and pray is your local Pediatric Intensive Care Unit, where the horrors of children suffering in unimaginable ways could "change things". And after you stroll down the chamber of horrors where anything from preemies to adolescents, suffering in mind boggling, egregious pain, hooked to every machine available, that looks more like medieval torture devices rather then medical technology -- after you pray over every child in this gauntlet of pain and suffering, why don't you go next door to the Pediatric Burn Unit, where some children are suffering from 4th and 5th degree burns over their entire body -- hellish burns down to the bone. Go there and pray for them, that they will miraculously heal and be good as new. And after you miraculously heal all those children with prayer, you can take your miracle prayer party and heal all the children in all the PICUs and PICU Burn Units, across the nation. What are you waiting for? God is waiting for you to pray over children, so you can "change things", but for some reason your demented, mother-fucking, dumb-ass god is waiting for you to beg for his help in the form of a prayer.<BR/><BR/>You offer me nothing but vomitous delusion and superstitious bullshit.<BR/><BR/>--S.<BR/><BR/>Harvey rationalizes, <I>In short, I am in full agreement with your pain, but SIN, the collective choice of man, is to blame for all pain in this world NOT God. For it is from Sin that all evil and sickness proceeds.</I><BR/><BR/>the collective choice of man? Illogical bullshit.<BR/> <BR/>More superstitious nonsense, that has an illusion of an explanation but in reality only substitutes one mystery for another. Why does god continue to create his earthly children, bringing us into an existence of suffering -- egregious, unimaginable, suffering? Not to mention the complete absurdity and unjustness of god allowing sin to become a birthmark, that passes on to the undeserving next generations, causing them to suffer in horrific and unimaginable ways. It's all equivocal bullshit and that we are even debating it points to it's unreal nature.sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-69719110941081772402008-08-07T20:28:00.000-04:002008-08-07T20:28:00.000-04:00Dear SConner,I just read your post, where you ment...Dear SConner,<BR/>I just read your post, where you mentioned the loss of your son.<BR/>It brought tears to my eyes.<BR/>Please accept my heartfelt condolences.<BR/><BR/>I have a seven year old son, and I know that I would be absolutely devastated if anything similar were to happen to him. Especially, considering that he is my only child.<BR/><BR/>I hope that the pain will ease for all of you, with the passing of time.<BR/><BR/>With best wishes, <BR/>David.DingoDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18386229762871857788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-29540320651933908872008-08-07T18:50:00.000-04:002008-08-07T18:50:00.000-04:00Sconnor ~ I have every bit of feeling for you and ...Sconnor ~ I have every bit of feeling for you and your situation. I have an 11 year old son that I also love with my life. I do not minimize the pain or the reality of your situation IN ANY MANNER. Your grief is in accordance with how I believe that I would feel if the same or a similar thing happened to me or my babies (That’s what I call my children)<BR/><BR/>I will submit this to you…your situation and that of your precious son was not what I was commenting about and is totally unrelated to God dealing with the SIN of Midian. I understand better now any negative feelings, but you must know that the events of the bible and the events of the life or your son and family cannot be and should not be reconciled in discovering this topic and subject, they are unrelated. <BR/><BR/>The Midianite problem was spiritual, which led to sin and sin, caused death (James 1:14) Sin is a real enemy not just a condition or state of mind. God was not exacting judgement upon you or your family. I believe you must separate your situation from these passages and for ANYONE atheist or Christian to encourage you to view your situation in light of these passages or this discussion is unconscionable and totally irresponsible. Your son is safe does not suffer anymore and I’m sure wanting his father to repent so that all of you can have the ultimate reunion, relationship and understanding for all eternity.<BR/><BR/>What we have in dealing with Midian and the nations that God displaced in Canaan was called self-righteousness and unrepentant actions in the face of truth. This was a flat out rebellion against what God had said and set forth clearly. Therefore rebellion which is SIN equivalent of witchcraft and stubbornness similar to idolatry (1 Sam 15:22-23)is the problem and the ultimate destruction and displacement of the Midianites, Cannanites and Amelekites… <BR/><BR/>Lev. 18:27-28 ~ “27(For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;) 28That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.”<BR/><BR/> Similarly, Egypt exalted themselves in a and paid the price also. They even thought they were gods. Neither of these situations has REMOTELY ANYTHING to do with yours. This is not mental gymnastics, this is simply setting forth an accurate accounting of events based on the complete information given. <BR/><BR/>To answer the assertion set forth by Dingo, that a child’s entire body is not punished for touching a hot stove, I offer that a statement like that is filled with self-righteousness. One example of his misunderstanding of the deeper issue, is if I purjer myself in court by lieing about what I consider to be a minor detail, and this is exposed by the record, what goes to prison, my tongue or my complete body? The court of man requires that individuals have a high regard for it. Notice that whether you believe in sin or not, whether you are a naturalist or not is not at question. The punishment (in many cases) is commensurate with the level of dissidence. <BR/><BR/>To approach God in a cavalier manner as the Midianite leaders did, and to afflict people simply trying to go on and complete their journey is total self righteous and complete disregard for who God is and what he had already revealed himself to be to them through their history. Both the Midianites and Amalekites knew and were familiar with the God of Israel but THEY minimized what they knew and thought nothing of it. Amalek had no regard for God, were proud and filled with discord, plotted against God’s people and their actions displayed the epitome of sin and unrighteousness…They also rightly were punished for leading their people into sin and error. <BR/><BR/>Prov 6:16-19 ~ “16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.” <BR/><BR/>To restate, the gravity of the sin and who is sinned against determines the severity of the punishment. To sin against God by trying to conspire against his people as the Midianites and Amalekites did is a high manner of sin especially since they already knew better. <BR/><BR/>I don’t blame most atheists for having a hard time with this and many Christians do as well. The human mind is weak regarding these things historically. For instance, we both know that the Midianites and Cannanites were involved in Molleck worship. (and other deities under other names) From what has been able to be determined, Molleck worship regularly required solemn child sacrifice as duty to Molleck. Families had to sacrifice their children and sometimes throw their children into fire unremorsefully. Failure to abide by the sacrificial rules resulted in death to the family. This was the fate of any number of Midianite and Cannanite children unknowingly and without explanation or preparation. Somehow the frailty of our minds allows us to reconcile these societies doing this to their children more easily than God (who is the giver of all life) reconciling it, ending it and correcting it himself. <BR/><BR/>In the case of the Midianites, the atheist blames God for reclaiming INNOCENT LIVES that HE GAVE in the first place ensuring their salvation by not allowing them to be subject to or worship a false idol God. To think that a child left in a village with rotting corpses would find a way to rehabilitate themselves or fend for themselves is incredulous and to think that it would have been better to simply leave them alone to begin with(which I have spelled out above) is a dilemma similar to the Iraq, WMD or not… <BR/><BR/>Contrary to what has been said, there is no scripture that suggests in any manner that captives were to be raped male-female-boy or girl. The idiom “took wives” is the manner of saying “marrying” or “being given in marriage” which was the standard of the societies in that day (Gen. 11:29) Abram “Took Saria” this did not and does not mean rape. In fact some eastern cultures IN MODERN TIMES, still offer prearranged marriages and the women which are usually given to men for a dowry are married whether they know OR like their husbands or not. They are not considered RAPED. That is a “strawman” to stir emotion and again shows complete self-righteousness and no consideration for the real argument. <BR/> <BR/>In short, I am in full agreement with your pain, but SIN, the collective choice of man, is to blame for all pain in this world NOT God. For it is from Sin that all evil and sickness proceeds.<BR/><BR/>Thank you Sconnor.District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-21832583806883350352008-08-05T20:13:00.000-04:002008-08-05T20:13:00.000-04:00Harvey,Anyway, for your long rants you already kno...Harvey,<BR/><BR/><I>Anyway, for your long rants you already know the answers for the Midianites...guess what, God's standards of morality and justice are much greater than yours and all your little "whiner" atheist friends who just CRY over the fact that those Midianite children had to die...no mention of the fact that they would have been sacrificed or become animal food otherwise.</I><BR/> <BR/>It is telling how you have to do mental gymnastics and jump through hoops to salvage your god's reputation -- a desperate act that has the eloquence of trying to bash a big square peg, with a sledgehammer, in a tiny, little hole.<BR/> <BR/>What you do not take into account, about the Midianites and other vile accounts in the bible such as the killing of the first born in Egypt and the Amelak Massacre, is the devastating long-lasting suffering, that all the families must endure, because god killed their children. Did god not take this into account when he decided to curse the first born Egyptians or ordered genocide? I can attest, to the anguish and monumental grief of losing a son. My ten year old son died from a heart attack, related to leukemia and everyday, sometimes every minute of everyday, the tsunami of grief makes my blood run cold and my heart turns to lead. For me it has been a crippling grief, where I lost everything; my job, my friends, and my identity. The egregious pain is parroted in the support group, I belong to, called compassionate friends -- some have divorced their spouses, some harm themselves, by cutting into their arms, some drink themselves to death every night, some use illicit drugs to block out the pain, while others, like myself have been institutionalized, in mental hospitals and some have even succumbed to the egregious pain and have killed themselves. To this day -- wanting to kill myself -- has become a part of my very existence. Along with my suffering, my daughter suffers; never to have her big brother in her life, destined to be an only child and emotionally scarred for life. She too suffers everyday, dreading to go to sleep thinking she will die, like her brother did. She feels her throat closing in and thinks she can't breathe. She suffers with night terrors and also sees a psychologists regularly. This, too, is what god wrought upon his earthly children when he killed the first born of Egypt and ordered the massacres of his earthly children. So while god was supposedly saving children from sacrifice and becoming animal food and or, leading his chosen out of bondage, he left in it's wake a devastation, so great, because so many families were affected, the untold suffering, where joy and hope have been obliterated, is unimaginable. A god that would do this, is nothing less then, a repugnant, vile, torturer of souls -- a megalomaniac that is both utterly contemptible and thoroughly indefensible.<BR/> <BR/>I've heard all your bullshit apologetic, pat, answers, but nothing addresses the aftermath suffering. <BR/> <BR/>Why did god create the babies and children, in the first place, knowing he was going to kill them, anyways? And god, just, didn't kill babies, he caused them to suffer! Why does an all-loving god cause babies and children to suffer? Why does a god allow babies to suffer? Presumably, god is all-powerful and all-loving, he could, easily, have waved his hand and magically made the babies and children disappear, without suffering, into his awaiting arms, but no -- egregious suffering was his will and he still left the families to wallow in their unimaginable, grief, until they died. I find that utterly vile and contemptible and I find you equally reprehensible, for condoning his atrocious acts, in a vain attempt to salvage your psycho-fuck god's reputation.<BR/> <BR/>And I guess I'm not asking you, so much, these questions, as you must relinquish to those <I>really smart guys</I> at those christian think tanks and Apologetics, instead of using your own mind. Please, let me know, what they tell you, on how to think. <BR/> <BR/>--S.sconnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17473671062467783406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-2975358784699436752008-08-05T00:04:00.000-04:002008-08-05T00:04:00.000-04:00Harvey Headbanger wrote:-"Anyway, for your lo...Harvey Headbanger wrote:<BR/><BR/>-"Anyway, for your long rants you already know the answers for the Midianites...guess what, God's standards of morality and justice are much greater than yours and all your little "whiner" atheist friends who just CRY over the fact that those Midianite children had to die...no mention of the fact that they would have been sacrificed or become animal food otherwise."<BR/><BR/>The Midianite children HAD to die? They would have been sacrificed? They would have become animal food? : D : D : D <BR/>Where on earth do you get these crazy ideas from Harvey? Your brain obviously 'works in mysterious ways'.<BR/>Anyway, if that were really the case, then why were the Israelite soldiers permitted to keep all the young virgin girls for themselves to use as sex slaves? Sixteen thousand of them according to the text, with thirty two of them being sacrificed to Yahweh as I recall.<BR/><BR/>-"Since you like to refer people to to GARBAGE websites in order to support your LIES Let me at least refer someone to a TRUE site that you can't stand...go on over to my friends J.P's site and learn something 4-real"<BR/><BR/>Harvey, you wouldn't recognise the truth, even if it walked up behind you and bit you on the butt. <BR/>By the way, I have read some of the stuff over at christian-thinktank.com, and what I have read there merely confirms what I told Rachel about Christian apologetics websites. Their absurd and desperate rationalisations are just as 'off the planet' as yours are here. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Thanks anyway Harvey.<BR/><BR/>-"If you had an inkling of an understanding of truth you'd realize that God's mercy and love demands justice and the Midianites had over 400 years to get things right and they did what you and many of your other cronies do...they rebelled...Just like touching a hot stove against right advice, you'll pay the price everytime...but you rational and functional objectivists have such a grasp on morality and the care for children right?"<BR/><BR/>The Midianites had 400 years to get things right? Where in the Bible does it say that Yahweh ever revealed himself to the Midianites the way he is supposed to have revealed himself to his 'chosen people' the Israelites? Where in the Bible does it say that the Israelites ever tried to talk the Midianites into joining their Yahweh cult? The Bible doesn't mention either of those things happening, and you know it as well as I do. So stop with your ridiculous excuses for what can only be described as a cold blooded massacre of innocent women and children, combined with a slave gathering expedition.<BR/>Your mind has been so twisted by your primitive, brutal superstitions, that it has blinded you to any sense of TRUE morality Harvey. The intentional massacre of women and children is immoral. It was immoral then, and it is immoral now. So yes, I do feel sympathy for those unfortunate victims of such a heinous crime. If you can describe the wholesale slaughter of women and children as 'caring for them', then there is something seriously wrong with you bro.<BR/><BR/>Your analogy about someone putting their hand on a hot stove is also a monumental failure. The god you worship allegedly tells people not to put their hand on a hot stove, then if they do, he supposedly throws their WHOLE BODIES into a red-hot oven as a punishment for disobeying him. If any parent on earth did such a thing to their children, they would probably be locked away in an insane asylum for the rest of their lives. And deservedly so.<BR/><BR/>"Imagine how much hatred you would have to have for another person to take his hand and press it against a hot stove, and hold it there while he struggles and screams in pain. Now imagine, not just burning a person's hand, but setting his entire body on fire; and now imagine doing it not just for a few moments, not for hours or days or years or millennia, but forever; and now imagine tormenting not just one, but thousands, millions, billions of people like this, inflicting on each and every one of them a suffering beyond imagination or description, for every single instant without rest or relief throughout all the endless span of eternity. And this is the work of a good god?"<BR/>http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/infinitepunishment.html<BR/><BR/>A truly wonderful god you've got there Harvey. What a guy! It's a good thing he's only make-believe isn't it?<BR/><BR/>-"You're the same ones that feel killing someone is justifiable if that person is not, in your opinion, self-aware don't ya? Ooh, we won't let that little secret out...right! PLEASE DOG!"<BR/><BR/>What the hell are you banging on about now Harvey? Who told you that I condone the killing of people who aren't self aware? That would include all new-born babies by the way. You just can't help making things up as you go along can you? You've been a preacher for far too long Harvey, because you still can't seem to get it through your thick skull that your bullshit doesn't work on me. I'm afraid your posts are becoming more like the ravings of some deranged street person as time goes by. <BR/>And even if I did condone such a thing, it wouldn't hold a candle to what YOU are condoning, ie. the cold blooded murder of thousands of innocent SELF AWARE women and children, and the enslavement of all the rest.<BR/><BR/>-"To show how twisted atheists are in general, LvKA gives a refrence to giving you Lee the finger and all of your "moral gods" jump all over him...while you cuss INSISENTLY in your answers to me."<BR/><BR/>I have no idea what you were going on about in that one Harvey. That sentence wasn't even written in English as far as I can tell. Is English your second language by any chance? What little of it I can understand, seems to indicate that you get all hot under the collar when someone uses the phrase 'bullshit', yet you feel no sense of outrage about the massacre of thousands of innocent women and children, and the enslavement of all the others. Your priorities are all screwed up Harvey. But I guess that's what the Abrahamic religions inevitably do to their most fanatical followers in the end.<BR/><BR/>-"See Fido, I know the truth of what atheism REALLY is when prepared by RADICAL MORONS such as you...I can honestly see the difference between those in it for the arguments sake such as Evan and those who are yielded to it such as you. I know none of you "believe" in Christianity, but you and as I told you before, HATE God...you're one of those radical haters of truth and a despiser of God to the CORE. A classic FOOL in the biblical sense."<BR/><BR/>Atheism is the lack of a belief in gods and goddesses Harvey. Nothing more, nothing less. <BR/>I don't 'hate God' any more than I 'hate Santa Claus'. I hate what many people do in the names of their gods, and in the names of their ridiculous religions, but I don't hate their gods themselves. A person can't hate something which doesn't exist. That's elementary my dear Watson. So what was your point again?<BR/>Oh, by the way Harvey, read this.<BR/><BR/>Matt.5<BR/>[22] "But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, `You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire." <BR/><BR/>So, I guess I'll be seeing you in Hell then Harvey. Don't forget to take some sunscreen lotion with you. I suggest that you get the strongest one possible, because I've heard that it can get pretty damned hot down there. : D >:-><BR/><BR/>-"Anyway, your fictitious LIES are nothing but that. Your insisent cussing is only a smoke-screen for a shallow empty and OLD arguments refuted many times over."<BR/><BR/>I simply call bullshit, "bullshit" when I see it Harvey. I prefer to call a spade a spade, rather than a 'manually operated, flat bladed excavation device'. <BR/>Do you have a problem with that, oh self-righteous one?<BR/><BR/>-"By the way if you did know anything about ANE captives you'd see tha[t] the Biblical command exceeded anything that existed in that day and was TOTALLY more honoring of captives than any other culture existing during that era."<BR/><BR/>There you go making stuff up again Harvey. How does raping a female captive, after murdering her entire family, constitute any kind of moral superiority? Every army used to do similar things back in those days, and in that regard the ancient Israelites were no different than any other nation. In fact in many ways, they were a lot worse than the surrounding nations, because of their alleged practice of systematic genocide. Someone once said that having the ancient Israelites as neighbours, would have been a bit like having the 'Hell's Angels' move in next door to you, only MUCH worse. I agree.<BR/><BR/>-"Stop spreading your CRAP like a plague and get some truth...I for one and (am) not scared of any of your GARBAGE..."<BR/><BR/>You might not be scared of it, but so far you haven't been able to refute any of it. Go on, keep trying Harvey, I DOUBLE-DARE ya! : )<BR/><BR/>-"So waive the hands at that Fido, cuss all you want in the end the bible TRUTH and Jesus as Lord will live beyond you and ALL your atheist partners...That's yet another thing that you can count on."<BR/><BR/>Harvey, have you ever considered the possibility that you might be wrong? Or is humility not part of your apologetics arsenal? I'm convinced that most of you preachers are on some kind of bizarre, vicarious power trip. And every time you open your mouth you simply reinforce that conclusion. <BR/><BR/>-"Later Fido...Yo quichreo Taco Bell!"<BR/><BR/>Huh? What's that supposed to mean? English really is your second language isn't it? What's your first language, speaking in tongues? <BR/><BR/>What's a 'quichreo'? I tried looking up the meaning of the word, but all I got was this,<BR/><BR/>"Your search - quichreo - did not match any documents. <BR/>Suggestions:<BR/>Make sure all words are spelled correctly.<BR/>Try different keywords.<BR/>Try more general keywords."<BR/><BR/>Never mind Harvey, I think I've finally figured what you were attempting to say. It's obvious that Spanish isn't you first language either.<BR/><BR/>Yo, quiero Taco Bell! - "Yo, I want Taco Bell!" ??? : /<BR/><BR/>It still doesn't make any sense to me, but then again, you rarely do.<BR/><BR/>Adiós por el momento, Pajero. <BR/>(and I mean that in the nicest possible way) : )DingoDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18386229762871857788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-34508973057435607482008-08-04T15:33:00.000-04:002008-08-04T15:33:00.000-04:00Fido It's hard to believe that a thespian such as ...Fido It's hard to believe that a thespian such as yourself can be so incredibly stupid...but what the hey...to what one aspires is what one becomes...<BR/><BR/>Anyway, for your long rants you already know the answers for the Midianites...guess what, God's standards of morality and justice are much greater than yours and all your little "whiner" atheist friends who just CRY over the fact that those Midianite children had to die...no mention of the fact that they would have been sacrificed or become animal food otherwise. <BR/><BR/>Since you like to refer people to to GARBAGE websites in order to support your LIES Let me at least refer someone to a TRUE site that you can't stand...go on over to my friends J.P's site and learn something 4-real:<BR/><BR/>http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qamorite.html<BR/><BR/>http://www.christian-thinktank.com/fem02b.html<BR/><BR/>And my friends at Quartz Hill<BR/><BR/>http://www.theology.edu/lec22.htm<BR/><BR/>If you had an inkling of an understanding of truth you'd realize that God's mercy and love demands justice and the Midianites had over 400 years to get things right and they did what you and many of your other cronies do...they rebelled...Just like touching a hot stove against right advice, you'll pay the price everytime...but you rational and functional objectivists have such a grasp on morality and the care for children right?<BR/><BR/>Yea right you DOG. <BR/><BR/>You're the same ones that feel killing someone is justifiable if that person is not, in your opinion, self-aware don't ya? Ooh, we won't let that little secret out...right! PLEASE DOG! <BR/><BR/>To show how twisted atheists are in general, LvKA gives a refrence to giving you Lee the finger and all of your "moral gods" jump all over him...while you cuss INSISENTLY in your answers to me. <BR/><BR/>See Fido, I know the truth of what atheism REALLY is when prepared by RADICAL MORONS such as you...I can honestly see the difference between those in it for the arguments sake such as Evan and those who are yielded to it such as you. I know none of you "believe" in Christianity, but you and as I told you before, HATE God...you're one of those radical haters of truth and a despiser of God to the CORE. A classic FOOL in the biblical sense. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, your fictitious LIES are nothing but that. Your insisent cussing is only a smoke-screen for a shallow empty and OLD arguments refuted many times over.<BR/><BR/>By the way if you did know anything about ANE captives you'd see tha the Biblical command exceeded anything that existed in that day and was TOTALLY more honoring of captives than any other culture existing during that era. You won't admit that and your garbage atheist friends won't either because it KILLS your whole hypothesis...<BR/><BR/>Stop spreading your CRAP like a plague and get some truth...I for one and not scared of any of your GARBAGE...Saying junk like you offer louder doesn't give it or the authors any more creedence than they had 100 and 200 years ago when the arguments were created and ultimately put down. <BR/><BR/>So waive the hands at that Fido, cuss all you want in the end the bible TRUTH and Jesus as Lord will live beyond you and ALL your atheist partners...That's yet another thing that you can count on.<BR/><BR/>Later Fido...Yo quichreo Taco Bell!District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-70575000602774231482008-08-04T01:07:00.000-04:002008-08-04T01:07:00.000-04:00Rachel asked:"Just out of curiosity, which books/a...Rachel asked:<BR/>"Just out of curiosity, which books/articles/online sources/other have you read about the culture of the ANE and what life was like then?"<BR/><BR/>Enough to see through Harvey's bullshit apologetics.<BR/>There is a vast wealth of information available online about Biblical studies and ancient Near Eastern history.<BR/>Try reading some of Richard Carrier's work, or Robert Price's stuff. Hector Avalos has also written some excellent books and articles. <BR/>I used to have lots of links saved on my old computer, before it suddenly gave up the ghost, so regrettably I've lost them all. <BR/>But an online search should give you heaps to read. However, stay away from Christian apologetics websites, because thay are nearly always full of the same tendentious rubbish that you've no doubt seen Harvey Burnett spouting on this website.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps start by reading 'Biblical Beginnings in Canaan'.<BR/>You can find it here;<BR/>http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/thera/canaan.html<BR/>or,<BR/>Virtual Religion Index: 'Ancient Near East'<BR/>http://virtualreligion.net/vri/aneast3.html<BR/><BR/>A good book is 'The Early History of God: Yahweh and Other Deities in Ancient Israel' by Mark S Smith<BR/>You can find some exerpts from this book online.<BR/>Another of Smith's books is, 'The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts'<BR/>It is also online. You can find a short summary here, http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/MSmith_BiblicalMonotheism.htm<BR/><BR/>A good website is 'The Bible and Interpretation' here, http://www.bibleinterp.com/index.htm<BR/><BR/>You could also read 'Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan', by John Day, which is also online.<BR/><BR/>'Occidental Mythology: The Masks of God', by Joseph Campbell.<BR/>'Middle Eastern Mythology', by S.H. Hooke.<BR/>Another excellent book in my opinion, is 'The Religion of the Occident', which was also published under the title 'The Story of Christian Origins', by Martin A Larson.<BR/>Also 'The Essene Heritage', by Martin A Larson.<BR/>'By the Waters of Babylon', by James Wellard.<BR/>And a good introduction to the Bible is surprisingly enough, 'Asimov's Guide to the Bible', by Isaac Asimov.<BR/><BR/>These are a few that I would recommend to you.<BR/><BR/>Cheers, David.DingoDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18386229762871857788noreply@blogger.com