tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post4238872920534771590..comments2024-03-25T17:35:02.238-04:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: A Review of John F. Haught's book, God and the New Atheism Part 1Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-44040932589067948692008-09-19T10:40:00.000-04:002008-09-19T10:40:00.000-04:00I wonder how come no one mentioned the courtier's ...I wonder how come no one mentioned the courtier's reply yet. This is a classic example of it. "Of course, you cannot debunk our silly unbased premises without being a master of divinity"<BR/><BR/>I wonder if he actually addresses any claims apart from handwaving the opposition by saying that they're obviously not qualified to talk about religion.Freidenker85https://www.blogger.com/profile/15002387818359580590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1276125592248558712008-09-18T14:29:00.000-04:002008-09-18T14:29:00.000-04:00(off topic - News Flash)It’s All In The Hips: Earl...(off topic - News Flash)<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080917210028.htm" REL="nofollow">It’s All In The Hips: Early Whales Used Well Developed Back Legs For Swimming, Fossils Show</A>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03469718358131331499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-20518748618915467492008-09-18T12:38:00.000-04:002008-09-18T12:38:00.000-04:00I guess I'm still trying to reconcile an immutable...I guess I'm still trying to reconcile an immutable God and his evolving ethics. Oh, I see.... our understanding of Him is what is evolving. He remains the same and consistent, His revelation to man, found in at least one holy book, is consistent and unchanging ( all of the other holy books are wrong) but fallen man including some of the greatest theological minds in the history of the church just can't seem to agree. Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin, Erasmus, Arminius, Edwards just to name a few, had disparate theological views on many issues.... but Haught has the answers. He seems to be about 2,000 years late.leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16371409643400358786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-75339350770442901892008-09-18T10:14:00.000-04:002008-09-18T10:14:00.000-04:00BahramtheRed~ "So Harvey, Only theologians have a ...BahramtheRed~ <I>"So Harvey, Only theologians have a claim to debunk anything?"</I><BR/><BR/><B>[I'm sorry I left the wrong impression. Anyone can claim or attempt to "debunk" and argument. I meant that Mr. Haught seems to be saying that there was no need to deal with these guys on a "theological" basis as they were making attacks based on more than matters of faith. That's all I meant. They don't seem to be making theological arguments and after reading the excerpts from his book I understand why he said it that way.]</B><BR/><BR/>Thanks.District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-6824764811966825382008-09-18T09:39:00.000-04:002008-09-18T09:39:00.000-04:00(off topic - but interesting)MIT neuroscientists h...(off topic - but interesting)<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080911150046.htm" REL="nofollow">MIT neuroscientists have tricked the visual brain into confusing one object with another, thereby showing that visual perception is a physical material brain phenomenon.</A>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03469718358131331499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-26383746032082943312008-09-18T08:43:00.000-04:002008-09-18T08:43:00.000-04:00I've read all three books, and to claim that each ...I've read all three books, and to claim that each book says one and only one thing that needs to be debunked is, well, silly. Hitchens doesn't simply say "religion poisons everything"; he says in considerable detail that the entire thought and values system entailed in theism is a danger when applied to any way of thinking about reality (and thus the "how religion poisons everything" tagline). Dawkins doesn't just say God is a delusion...he says that God either does something in the world, in which case He is a legitimate target for scientific inquiry and is thus far unsupported, or He does nothing in the world, in which case He is uninteresting. Dawkins then sets aside the second case (as it is uninteresting) and focuses on the first, showing in great detail how the God hypothesis is not supported by facts. He even makes what I consider an ill-conceived foray into attempting to prove that God is impossible by claiming that, if God exists, He MUST have evolved. He then concludes the belief in the God hypothesis in the absence of reliable evidence is wishful thinking, which is a kind of delusion. <BR/><BR/>He's correct in summarizing Harris' book; unfortunately for him, Harris is right. Faith and reason are at odds by their very nature; one demands that truth must be verifiable, and the other insists that it need not be verifiable. The only way around this is to redefine faith, redefine reason, or redefine truth, all of which are weaselly dodges.<BR/><BR/>Hopefully Haught is going to go after the ideas in the books, as opposed to the taglines used to sell the books. His book isn't on my reading list, but I will try to keep up with the discussions here to see if I should check it out.Shygetzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12587529149916263563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-6001606011427105212008-09-18T07:48:00.000-04:002008-09-18T07:48:00.000-04:00So Harvey, Only theologians have a claim to debunk...So Harvey, Only theologians have a claim to debunk anything? <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>I've only read one of those books (dawkins) but he occupies a very high place in my opinion. I hope to read the others at some point but I don't have time now, things are too unpredicatble to get into a good book.BahramtheRedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13723284453543057245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-51229025502820615582008-09-18T00:16:00.000-04:002008-09-18T00:16:00.000-04:00"Against Dawkins he claims that God cannot be dism...<I>"Against Dawkins he claims that God cannot be dismissed as a delusion; against Harris he claims that faith is not the enemy of reason; and against Hitchens he claims that religion does not poison everything."</I><BR/><BR/><B>[So if this is the basis of his arguments he's right. And none of the men that he has mentioned here claimed to be theologians. (at least to my knowledge) I would also add that in my opinion all three men are overrated. I'll be looking to see more of what you have to say here John.]</B>District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-18330633589172367972008-09-17T23:17:00.000-04:002008-09-17T23:17:00.000-04:00Haught's book is still on my reading list, so may ...Haught's book is still on my reading list, so may I ask a question. John, you say <I> their critique of Christian religion is “theological unchallenging.” (p. xi) Haught </I><BR/><BR/>While I would have to agree with his “theological unchallenging.” I am a bit surprised that he was so loose as to bundle their criticisms of Christianity AND religion into the same statement. <BR/><BR/>Indeed one would not normally say that theology would be used to address the Christian religion per se, but rather to address Christian beliefs.<BR/><BR/>You are trying to play fast and loose with your partial quotes are you John?<BR/><BR/>Also, while it is easy to pick large holes in the psuedo-rational theology associated with our "New Atheists" they do point to some real shortcomings (past and present) of organised religion. Indeed I believe that Haught would not take issue with some of the facts - so again John, you alert my straw-man alarm with your partial quote.<BR/><BR/>Sala kahle - peaceakakiwibearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18324950054939335251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-39641220901645645742008-09-17T22:28:00.000-04:002008-09-17T22:28:00.000-04:00“science alone can tell us what religion is really...“science alone can tell us what religion is really about, and it can provide better answers than theology to every important question people ask.”<BR/><BR/>Yep, that pretty much sums it up. Religion offers, nor has it ever, any useful answer(s) to any question I have ever deemed "important."<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://mylongapostasy.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">ATL-Apostate</A>WesLindseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18331690049413136822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-16257653864770722682008-09-17T21:10:00.000-04:002008-09-17T21:10:00.000-04:00I just finished Haught's book too. I'm looking for...I just finished Haught's book too. I'm looking forward to your discussion.Aaron Bonhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08853000688370008491noreply@blogger.com