tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post5206585944057333280..comments2024-03-25T17:35:02.238-04:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: The Natural History of The BibleUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-17178396868744295022007-08-30T17:03:00.000-04:002007-08-30T17:03:00.000-04:00derenda said:you will fall in love with HIS HOLY W...derenda said:<BR/><BR/><I>you will fall in love with HIS HOLY WORD and you will meditate on 2nd Timothy Chapter 3 verse 16 . It says, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,for reproof, for correction,for instruction in righteousness.</I><BR/><BR/>And exactly which scriptures do you suppose the author was referring to, considering the New Testament was not canonized until the late second century at the earliest (and that's if you accept the Muratorian fragment as a canon) and the Old Testament wasn't canonized until 90 AD? How can you be sure that the Bible you have now is the same sacred writings (no more, no less) that the author insisted were completely valid?<BR/><BR/>How do you interpret Jeremiah 8:8 into your discussion (which clearly states that the Bible has been corrupted by the scribes who handled the Word of God)? If all Scripture is God-breathed and correct, and the Scripture says that the Scripture is corrupted by Man, where does that leave you?Shygetzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12587529149916263563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-26486010378121948502007-08-28T23:15:00.000-04:002007-08-28T23:15:00.000-04:00It would be a brand new venture for me! But it so...It would be a brand new venture for me! But it sounds like a lot of fun, when I have some downtime to learn. I've also been thinking about starting a blog for believers who are questioning their faith. It would be sort of a "safe area" for people to discuss believes and much less combative than some of the exchanges in forums like this one (not that passionate debate is always bad). If anyone else is interested in helping me or giving me advice on how to get one started, please email me at deepthinker101@gmail.comBillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07058424176773515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-47204657891864408042007-08-28T13:51:00.000-04:002007-08-28T13:51:00.000-04:00Lee and Jospeh:Thanx for the compliment -- and sor...Lee and Jospeh:<BR/>Thanx for the compliment -- and sorry I misread yours, Lee, as sarcasm. If someone wanted to start such a blog, or open such a thread here -- discussing Christian broadcasters, that is -- I'd be glad to contribute, but I won't start such a blog myself, simply because I am aware of how badly I messed up my previous attempts. (I never was even able to figure out how to start a blogroll. I am 'technologically declined,' I'm afraid.)<BR/><BR/>But if it gets started, I'll be glad to add my usual long-windedness.Prup (aka Jim Benton)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08376467128665482055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-857144085684428132007-08-28T01:05:00.000-04:002007-08-28T01:05:00.000-04:00Jim, you have an excellent idea--blogging about Ch...Jim, you have an excellent idea--blogging about Christian broadcasts. I listen to Christian radio quite a bit and now that I listen with a more critical ear, I can't believe some of the stuff I hear from mainstream evangelists like Chuck Swindoll, John MacArthur, and even the usually mellow Charles Stanley. It's especially revealing when they start sermonizing on the stories of the Old Testament (the attempted murder of Issac by Abraham, the rebuke of Samuel to Saul for not exterminating everyone in his conquests, etc, etc). Needless to say, most believers take their cues from such trusted voices.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07058424176773515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-57875215904080234532007-08-27T09:01:00.000-04:002007-08-27T09:01:00.000-04:00"If you don't accept the bible literally, then how..."If you don't accept the bible literally, then how do you determine what is 'real' and what is not?"<BR/>I believe in other sets of scripture, outside the bible, and modern day prophet who receives revelation, and personal study.<BR/>I guess I'll wait for you articles before commenting on things you're going to write about. I'm sure there are people who fit what you describe but not everyone. How do I account for them as in what happens to them? We will be judged on what we know of right and wrong and our choices based on that knowledge. So if someone doesn't have the ability to understand right from wrong, I don't believe they are accountable for their actions.Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05816549810869986623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-66978050943295922582007-08-26T04:22:00.000-04:002007-08-26T04:22:00.000-04:00Hi prup,I was serious, I think it is a good idea, ...Hi prup,<BR/>I was serious, I think it is a good idea, and I think you would be good at running a blog like that.<BR/>I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353286859864448748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-82641475668170541962007-08-26T03:59:00.000-04:002007-08-26T03:59:00.000-04:00C'mon Lee, it's not that dumb an idea. Christiani...C'mon Lee, it's not <I>that</I> dumb an idea. Christianity isn't just (bad) ideas, they are reinforced by ceremonies, preaching, and various types of effects. How many people would stil be Christians if the only experiences that kept them there were ideas.<BR/><BR/>I thought, while we were debunking the ideas of Christianity, it was worth looking at their presentation.<BR/><BR/>(Btw, I don't know what was funnier, the idea of me having 'time on my hands' -- ask my correspondents -- or the idea of me trying to run another blog, after the mess I made of my last ones.)Prup (aka Jim Benton)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08376467128665482055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-73361566071667559652007-08-26T01:41:00.000-04:002007-08-26T01:41:00.000-04:00Hi Prup,I think that is a good idea, and when I ru...Hi Prup,<BR/>I think that is a good idea, and when I run out of ideas, I probably will.<BR/><BR/>That may be a good idea for a team-blog in itself, criticism of webbased services.<BR/><BR/>all it needs is someone knowledgeable with some time on their hands....maybe with an account on questia.....or something like that....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353286859864448748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-28469700007737551102007-08-25T12:05:00.000-04:002007-08-25T12:05:00.000-04:00I am not sure if it is worth replying to someone l...I am not sure if it is worth replying to someone like Derenda, not just because his comments are the usual, insulting, 'I'm not sure you really were Christians to begin with,' but also because he seems to contradict himself as to whether he just discovered the site or discovered it months ago, or what.<BR/><BR/>However, I find his suggestion that we 'attend' services at Muscle Shoals Baptist interesting. (He seems to mean that services are broadcast over the web, not that we fly to Alabama.) DC is very good on the theoretical problems with Christianity, but rarely deals with 'Christianity as she is spoke,' and it might be interesting for some of us to 'attend' a service and comment on it. I may do so, either picking one from the archives or 'going to' this week's service, since I've never attended an evangelical service. Any other takers?Prup (aka Jim Benton)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08376467128665482055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-14123126724393294552007-08-25T03:08:00.000-04:002007-08-25T03:08:00.000-04:00Hi derenda,I'm asking this to all of you guys and ...Hi derenda,<BR/><B><I>I'm asking this to all of you guys and girls. maybe you have never been truly converted. </B></I><BR/>This question is covered in some detail in our <A HREF="http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2007/05/frequently-asked-questions-index.html" REL="nofollow">FAQ</A><BR/>link at the top of the page.<BR/><BR/>thanks for asking though.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353286859864448748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-32859041626641290192007-08-25T03:04:00.000-04:002007-08-25T03:04:00.000-04:00I want to clean up my last post and say that "I ca...I want to clean up my last post and say that "I can show you evidence that undermines aspects of the philosophical argument for freewill". Always want to steer clear of those absolute claims......<BR/>;-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353286859864448748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-37964342243930710732007-08-25T03:02:00.000-04:002007-08-25T03:02:00.000-04:00Hi rich,ok heres the pitch!If you don't accept the...Hi rich,<BR/>ok heres the pitch!<BR/>If you don't accept the bible literally, then how do you determine what is 'real' and what is not? <BR/>For example, adam and eve. were they real? if not, then was the fall of man real? if yes, then how do you account for biological bases for behavior? I can show you evidence that undermines the philosophical argument for freewill . Due to some biological factors, doing the right thing doesn't even occur to some people as a consideration. Due to some biological factors, it should be impossible to believe in god. I ask because this is one of two articles that i have waiting in the wings doing research for.<BR/><BR/>If you want to 'play',<BR/>Please focus on the 'how do you tell the difference' rather than the bioligical bases for behavior because I want to stay on topic.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353286859864448748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-47979921082066771252007-08-25T02:53:00.000-04:002007-08-25T02:53:00.000-04:00Hi Derenda, Thank you for the invitation, but if I...Hi Derenda, <BR/>Thank you for the invitation, but if I come do I have to tithe, or will you cover my part?<BR/><BR/>Can I bring lowendaction and jennifer? They can help me set you all straight.<BR/>;-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353286859864448748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-9460590730667582872007-08-25T00:31:00.000-04:002007-08-25T00:31:00.000-04:00Derenda, another person trapped in the mental pris...Derenda, another person trapped in the mental prison of the Bible.Tommykeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14751182125861177379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-19429895468049138382007-08-24T17:25:00.000-04:002007-08-24T17:25:00.000-04:00I came across your site while looking for a book o...I came across your site while looking for a book on another site. I was heartbroken. To you Lee, I don't know where you were raised or what you heard but I know the love of God,and when you have TRULY been shown the wickedness of your heart by a HOLY and RIGHTEOUS GOD and you truly see your sin and He gloriously saves you as you cry out to him for forgiveness for sinning against a HOLY GOD then you will fall in love with HIS HOLY WORD and you will meditate on 2nd Timothy Chapter 3 verse 16 . It says, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,for reproof, for correction,for instruction in righteousness. You won't say things like I was raised in church here, or I'm a church member there, or somebody told me about this or that and I just don't beleive it. Lee, was there ever a point in your life when you truly in your heart abhorred the things you used to love and love the things you use to hate? Did you have a desire to be with God's people? Did you have a desire to read his word? I'm asking this to all of you guys and girls. maybe you have never been truly converted. When GOD truly takes out that heart of stone and puts in a heart of flesh you not only will believe HIS WORD but you will desire and hunger for it! I love you all in the Lord! My church's website is fbcms.org. Our services our live on Sunday 1030am central and 615pm. you can also go to past services in the archives. thanks. hHave a great week! By the way this was a response to Lee's deconversion story in March. I had just found this site, and had to speak to Lee personally. You will be in my prayers.Derendahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02502764123273136311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-73764635117557703272007-08-24T15:49:00.000-04:002007-08-24T15:49:00.000-04:00I can see how this is a problem for inerrancy. If ...I can see how this is a problem for inerrancy. If you don't believe the bible to be inerrant, it really doesn't give you a major boost but you did you the phrase "apparent fact" which is correct because we can't say for certainty that we know what happened in the past. While I believe we can get a pretty good idea, I'm not so confident in our ability to map out the past with great accuracy. I think if we start down the road of metaphors and non-literal understandings it would get interesting.<BR/>We try real hard to show that the bible is a real history. I remember watching a show on discovery channel some time ago about the wandering of Israel in the desert. They (whoever did the show) claimed to have the path that Israel took in the wilderness mapped out by satellite. It ended up with the show claiming that what we believe is mount Sinai today is in the wrong place. If I can find any link about it I will post it.<BR/>It was an interesting read, your post.<BR/>"But if you want to get into non-literal or metaphorical understanding that would be fun."<BR/>If you got something to through out there lets see where it goes:)Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05816549810869986623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-52146990671711730032007-08-24T10:04:00.000-04:002007-08-24T10:04:00.000-04:00Hi Rich,yes, the perspective that I am addressing ...Hi Rich,<BR/>yes, the perspective that I am addressing is evangelical christian.<BR/><BR/>But if you want to get into non-literal or metaphorical understanding that would be fun.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353286859864448748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-33090008867845346232007-08-24T08:55:00.000-04:002007-08-24T08:55:00.000-04:00"it shows how the data recovered by archaeologists..."it shows how the data recovered by archaeologists, historians etc don't support the bibles version of history. It shows where the bible differs from apparent fact."<BR/><BR/>Are you talking about inerrancy? By showing that the bible differs from what archaeologists and historians find should tell us that the bible has errors?Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05816549810869986623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-37879960385716409832007-08-24T01:32:00.000-04:002007-08-24T01:32:00.000-04:00Lee, circumcision wasn't to show allegiance, it wa...Lee, circumcision wasn't to show allegiance, it was intended as a sign of the covenant between God and the seed of Abraham. Gen 17:10-11. It's symbolic of the required separation between man and sin (Jer 4:4, Col 2:11).Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13029527163229375153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-30229443101969484122007-08-23T23:54:00.000-04:002007-08-23T23:54:00.000-04:00Hi ben and prup,your argument was compelling so I ...Hi ben and prup,<BR/>your argument was compelling so I changed the 'medically referred' to 'also referred' in the text of the article.<BR/>;-)<BR/>peer review, gotta love it!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353286859864448748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-71250917741355611512007-08-23T23:46:00.000-04:002007-08-23T23:46:00.000-04:00Hi ben and prup,I won't say anymore on circumcisio...Hi ben and prup,<BR/>I won't say anymore on circumcision after this, but I don't see how you can justify calling one type of procedure on one gender 'mutilation' and the same type of procedure on another gender 'not-mutilation'. <BR/> <BR/>Personally I don't care what it is called, or anything about it, but if the term genital mutilation is accepted for women, what prevents it from being accepted for men aside from 'societal spin'?<BR/><BR/>And in case anyone is thinking about claiming that circumcision demonstrates that god imparted knowledge that was ahead of its time since circumcision helps prevent disease, I want to point out that Pediatrician professional societies say that the benefits of circumcision do not justify its practice.<BR/><BR/>Not very God-like I'd say. Cutting the foreskin off your penis to show allegiance? pretty silly.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353286859864448748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-82916210870021978702007-08-23T17:15:00.000-04:002007-08-23T17:15:00.000-04:00Agreed.Agreed.Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18365355509420961754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-43005158482187156112007-08-23T16:57:00.000-04:002007-08-23T16:57:00.000-04:00Thank you, Ben. Without getting into a debate on ...Thank you, Ben. Without getting into a debate on the pros and cons of circumcision -- this is NOT the place -- you are right about the terminology. It is, however accurate for the (mis)-named "female circumcision."Prup (aka Jim Benton)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08376467128665482055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-52171026841911260962007-08-23T16:32:00.000-04:002007-08-23T16:32:00.000-04:00Circumcision is not "medically known" as genital m...Circumcision is not "medically known" as genital mutilation. (Anti-circumcision activists might call it that, but that's hardly the neutral medical term.)<BR/><BR/>You might as well say, "Abortion, medically known as baby killing..."Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18365355509420961754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-33183167793403855012007-08-22T23:43:00.000-04:002007-08-22T23:43:00.000-04:00I encourage everyone to visit the new FreeThinker'...I encourage everyone to visit the new FreeThinker's WIKI at: <BR/> http://FreeThoughtPedia.com/Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06460673199991756682noreply@blogger.com