tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post8596236017834398435..comments2024-03-25T17:35:02.238-04:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: Guest Post by William Lobdell: "Without a Doubt"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-80070750868463879162009-02-21T12:12:00.000-05:002009-02-21T12:12:00.000-05:00Sorry, Feeno, I'm not Massimo. Concerning Mother T...Sorry, Feeno, I'm not Massimo. Concerning Mother Teresa, I stand by what I said. That's a subject for a different discussion, but you can see how different and how much more honest Lobdell's reaction to doubt was.Pierohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17052662579477030895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-31867531542721853542009-02-20T12:41:00.000-05:002009-02-20T12:41:00.000-05:00Mr. Lobdell said,"Several recent studies have show...Mr. Lobdell said,<BR/><BR/><I>"Several recent studies have shown that there’s little difference in the moral behavior of evangelical Christians and atheists. I’d argue that’s because both groups don’t really believe, deep down, that God is real.<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>I think there are many good reasons to construe that "both groups don’t really believe, deep down, that God is real," but the "little difference in the moral behavior of evangelical Christians and atheists" is better explained by appealing to their common evolved moral sense. <BR/><BR/>Atheists and evangelicals conduct themselves similarly in similar situations because they share an evolved suite of behavioral and emotional responses to their understanding of the likely consequences of their own and other's behaviors.<BR/><BR/>Saying "there’s little difference in the moral behavior of evangelical Christians and atheists" suggests that concerning love, kindness, compassion, caring, generosity, thoughtfulness, courage, and honesty, among other virtues, there is essentially nothing to recommend one of the groups over the other. We can chuckle a bit that this observation directly refutes the evangelical's frequent claim that they are morally superior, not only to we atheists, but to everyone else, including other Christians. But, we can laugh out loud that any such findings will leave the evangelical's self-perception of being morally superior unaffected.Russhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15316459700934662467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-64367329332832318612009-02-20T12:06:00.000-05:002009-02-20T12:06:00.000-05:00Piero, Are you maybe AKA Massimo?I know you are ve...Piero, Are you maybe AKA Massimo?<BR/><BR/>I know you are very intelligent I've read some of your stuff over there.<BR/><BR/>I've also read some of Hitchens' stuff. And if you believe that you'd believe just about anything.<BR/><BR/>So Mother Teresa Didn't care about the sick, dying or hurting she was just a secret agent for the Catholic church out to convert the world to Catholicism. If you knew anything about Mother Teresa you'd know the only criteria for her love was to be in need. <BR/><BR/>Yes, she may of had doubts, but if we are gonna be honest on this site we all have doubts. Me as a Christian and many of you Atheists.<BR/>Or am I wrong sir, don't you have any doubts about there might just be a God?<BR/><BR/>Mother Teresa doesn't need me to defend her life. Although I quote her very often, what she did speaks for itself. However from the writings I have on her everything she did was to become more like Jesus. Matter of fact on her death bed it has been reported her last words were" Jesus I see, Jesus I see."<BR/><BR/>Sorry if I got a little off topic. <BR/><BR/>Peace out, feenofeenohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07483769284197614547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-62683237275987764312009-02-20T10:07:00.000-05:002009-02-20T10:07:00.000-05:00I'm sympathizing with Jason in that it's presumptu...I'm sympathizing with Jason in that it's presumptuous to think that any shared moral behaviors are indicative that there is no God. You could just as easily assert (with just as much information that Lodell gives) that shared moral behaviors suggest that there is a God.<BR/><BR/>Another equally presumptuous statement he gives: "If Christianity is true, its teachers can dispel just about any doubt." Why wouldn't the same hold true for atheism or any other religion? Secretly harboring doubts that God exists is really no different than secretly harboring a desire to make a connection with whatever or whomever created the universe. I can't see that either of these doubting-type activities corners the doubters' market!<BR/><BR/>But I do completely and totally agree with Lobdell's statement that doubt should come out of the closet and be dealt with openly and thoughfully. Otherwise we're just talking straight past each other as I see happening in discussions like this.Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15317195599934002547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-56329710210638458892009-02-20T08:48:00.000-05:002009-02-20T08:48:00.000-05:00JD Walters has begun discussing this guest post at...JD Walters has begun discussing this guest post at <A HREF="http://christiancadre.blogspot.com/2009/02/are-we-all-closet-atheists.html" REL="nofollow">this entry</A> on the Christian Cadre.<BR/><BR/>In relation to my own comment on that post, would Mr. Lobdell clarify which kinds of shared moral behavior he would argue from, that both groups deep down don't really believe that God is real?<BR/><BR/>For example, is he explaining our common propensity to give charitably to the needy, and to love our enemies, and to protect the helpless, and to be faithful in our relationships, etc.? Or is he explaining our common propensity to exploit the needy, deride our enemies, ignore the helpless, and be treacherous in our relationships, etc.? Which kind of shared moral behaviors leads him to argue that those who share those moral behaviors ultimately disbelieve in God? (Or does he have a third category of moral behaviors in mind represented by a categorically different kind of list?)<BR/><BR/><BR/>Alternately, which kind of shared moral behaviors would other atheists expect Mr. Lobdell to be talking about? (Or, if you happen to know which kind he's talking about, but disagree with him as to the kind that would count as evidence for his position, which kind of shared moral behaviors, if any, would you find to weigh more instead, toward an expectation that those who share in doing that kind of moral behavior disbelieve in God deep down?)<BR/><BR/>JRPJason Pratthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01602238179676591394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-48786608079884332502009-02-20T04:16:00.000-05:002009-02-20T04:16:00.000-05:00Here's the link to his original essay: LINKHere's the link to his original essay: <A HREF="http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jul/21/local/me-lostfaith21" REL="nofollow">LINK</A>Dave Van Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08288914445803411893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-81231924438232975682009-02-19T20:54:00.000-05:002009-02-19T20:54:00.000-05:00Is there an internet link to this essay? If so, co...Is there an internet link to this essay? If so, could someone please post the link. I want to read this article. If it is good, maybe I will check out the book.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-49105771041260244162009-02-19T19:23:00.000-05:002009-02-19T19:23:00.000-05:00PersonalFailure, maybe you should read "The Missio...PersonalFailure, maybe you should read "The Missionary Position". Or watch Hitchens's videos (YouTube) on Mother Teresa. She was indeed amazing, but probably not in the sense you meant.Pierohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17052662579477030895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-5415041772135164842009-02-19T16:12:00.000-05:002009-02-19T16:12:00.000-05:00Wow. Mother Theresa? So she was just doing all tha...Wow. Mother Theresa? So she was just doing all that stuff because she wanted to? She was even more amazing than I thought.<BR/><BR/>I, too, struggled to maintain a faith that was dead. I wanted to believe that something, somewhere loved me and watched over me and cared, even as I saw more evidence every day that that simply wasn't true.<BR/><BR/>I suspect that many whom we think of, and think of themselves, as religious also harbor doubts. In fact, I suspect that many of the most outwardly fanatical have the strongest doubts.<BR/><BR/>I salute those with the courage to publicly identify themselves as atheists. Hopefully it helps those struggling to know they are not alone. (As I hide behind a screen name, I don't count myself among them.)PersonalFailurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03034292023591747601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-12050365709931865662009-02-19T16:01:00.000-05:002009-02-19T16:01:00.000-05:00I reviewed his book and recommended it highly.I reviewed his book and <A HREF="http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2009/02/losing-religion-on-religion-beat-review.html" REL="nofollow">recommended it highly</A>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com