tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post8785114182384285033..comments2024-03-25T17:35:02.238-04:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: Leaving HomeUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-54612119892033042892007-05-29T16:04:00.000-04:002007-05-29T16:04:00.000-04:00Valerie,We have a mind, body, and soul. Reason, em...Valerie,<BR/><BR/>We have a mind, body, and soul. Reason, emotion, and religion. The scientist, the artist, and the priest. Most people are stronger in one area than the others. A great scientist may be completely blind to art or religion. A great artist may wander through life aimlessly carried away by his emotions. However, a complete person is someone who has arrived at a harmony of all three within his being.<BR/><BR/>Science evolves, art evolves and so too does religion. No more Zeus and Hera. Gone are the sun gods and volcano gods who demand virgin sacrifices. As time progresses man develops a deeper and more sophisticated understanding of his soul and its creator. <BR/><BR/>Every religion tries to describe God. They try to answer the question, "What is God like?" Judaism and Islam says, "God is like a just and perfect king on the thrown of the universe." Christianity agrees but it improves on that answer saying, "God is also like a man suffering and dying on a cross for those he loves." <BR/><BR/>For me Christianity gives the most complete and convincing answer to the question, "What is God like?" God has reason (The Father) and emotion (The Son) and a spirit (The Holy Spirit). Not only is God a man dying on a cross but He's also a spirit who can dwell inside those who accept Him. This is a huge leap forward from the other abrahamic religions.<BR/><BR/>So, I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say that "the core" of Christianity predates and transcends Christianity. I'm also not sure what you mean when you say you don't believe in an anthropomorphic god. A God without feelings? I think that would be a great leap backwards in spiritual understanding.<BR/><BR/>If God does not care or if there is no God then our feelings are like the wind or the ocean tide--just the motion of particles or the behavior of matter. <BR/><BR/>To quote Queen, "Nothing really matters, Anyone can see, Nothing really matters to me."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-7462713465200209642007-05-28T10:56:00.000-04:002007-05-28T10:56:00.000-04:00Clarissa:Your last point is inarguable. Unfortuna...Clarissa:<BR/>Your last point is inarguable. Unfortunately, you make the same mistake so many believers do. You confuse "<B>A</B> God" with "<B>my</B> God." (Lee, can we get this question put into the FAQ? If necessary, I'll write a post on it.)<BR/><BR/>It is certainly possible -- given the idea that God created the Universe -- to look at any proposed 'communication' between that God and humanity, and state that this could not have come from the Creator -- assuming such a Creator exists.<BR/><BR/>To take an easy -- and in this venue, non-controversial -- example:<BR/><BR/>Mormons claim THE BOOK OF MORMON is a 'communication from God." TBOM makes certain claims. Initially it claims that Amerinds (I prefer that term to 'native Americans' since, having been born in Paterson, NJ, I am a 'native American') are the descendants of the "Lost Tribes of Israel." DNA studies and ethnographic studies can demonstrate this is not true.<BR/><BR/>It describes certain settlements that archaeology can prove did not exist.<BR/><BR/>It describes them -- at the time of Christ -- as having a diet including certain crops that botany can demonstrate did not exist in America pre-Columbus. (The failure to mention many crops that <I>were</I> indigenous to America and which formed the Amerind diet is indicative but not conclusive.)<BR/><BR/>TBOM was, supposedly, written in 'reformed Egyptian' heiroglyphics -- and, pre-Rosetta Stone these were not translatable, but Joseph Smith had mystical stones that were able to translate them. He was given a page of authentic papyrus with heiroglyphics and supposedly also translated it as a "Book of Moses." When it became possible to translate Egyptian, the page proved to be a segment of the 'Book of the Dead.'<BR/><BR/>Thus science can disprove the possibility of TBOM being a communication from God -- unless God is a totally dishonest prankster.<BR/><BR/>I have a guest coming, so I'll get back to this and use similar methods on the Bible later.Prup (aka Jim Benton)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08376467128665482055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-35025331419788855212007-05-28T09:12:00.000-04:002007-05-28T09:12:00.000-04:00Lory, the problem with qualifying any particular t...Lory, the problem with qualifying any particular theological point by a scientific theory is that scientific theories are provisional; at one time "science" told us that the universe was static and eternal...now it tells us that the universe had a beginning, although even that is now being modified by theories about "multi-verses".<BR/><BR/>In fact, some scientits are even disagreeing about what counts as "science" any more...like the concept of the "multiverse" or string theory...and what is speculation.<BR/><BR/>Scientists can't explain what the "big bang" is or how life began, and still disagree about the mechanisms and path of evolution. <BR/><BR/>They believe that someday they will answer these questions, but they don't know. What they have is faith that the human mind...which the atheist will tell you has mindlessly evolved...is able to apprehend the true nature of reality and answer these questions.<BR/><BR/>But if you leap from theories about all these subjects to the conclusion that there is no God or that he has not commnuicated in any way with humankind then you have gone beyond anything science is capable of.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-67657297909521583172007-05-27T12:42:00.000-04:002007-05-27T12:42:00.000-04:00I totally relate to everything in your story. I w...I totally relate to everything in your story. I was brought up a fundamentalist Christian, and went through a very similar process to you, including depression when I couldn't resolve the conflicts. OK now I still don't have all the answers but to be able to even think for yourself and make up your own mind, without someone breathing over your shoulder ... is f*ing <I>awesome</I>!! I'm free! Every time I realise that I get goose pimples.Stu Sherwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16603375086735847395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-62768510811920226562007-05-26T01:56:00.000-04:002007-05-26T01:56:00.000-04:00Welcome aboard!Welcome aboard!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353286859864448748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-51455780759972405982007-05-25T18:09:00.000-04:002007-05-25T18:09:00.000-04:00Hi Lori -Thanks for asking. I often keep company ...Hi Lori -<BR/><BR/>Thanks for asking. I often keep company with modernist Christians, and even spoke recently to a group of retired ministers about fundamentalism. <BR/><BR/>The problem for me wasn't the periferal tenets of fundamentalist faith: inerrancy, denial of findings in the natural sciences, etc. Ultimately, I came to believe that the core doctrines of Christianity itself: blood atonement, salvation through belief, eternal material reward or torture, etc, were incompatible with serving the ultimate essence of Love and Truth. Christian dogmas were incompatible with the core values of Christianity itself, and the core attributes of the God that I served. <BR/><BR/>I know now that many Christians don't believe in blood atonement or heaven and hell or even the unique divinity of Jesus. They have rightly re-opened the doors that were closed by the Catholic councils of the 4th Century. They have asked, which parts of our received tradition are mere human construction or superstition? and what are the divine realities that lie beneath? And they have answered these questions in a variety of ways. <BR/><BR/>But to self-identify as a Christian in that context still implies something concrete. It implies that the forms and rituals of the Christian tradition serve as one's primary path for understanding of goodness and truth. I cannot say that. I believe that the moral core of Christianity both pre-dates and transcends Christianity. In addition I lack an anthropomorphic god concept. <BR/><BR/>If you'd like to hear more about why I think that Christianity violates the Christian God, my personal blog site has a link to an interview on AChristianAndAnAthiest.com. <BR/><BR/>Peace,<BR/><BR/>ValerieValerie Taricohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16012585215311378948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-84414855690437587632007-05-25T17:49:00.000-04:002007-05-25T17:49:00.000-04:00Hi Valerie,I'm a Christian. I read your story beca...Hi Valerie,<BR/><BR/>I'm a Christian. I read your story because I wanted to understand why you became an atheist. Are you an atheist? <BR/><BR/>From what I read you had a lot of questions and there were a lot of Christian beliefs which you found incoherent. I remember when I was child I used to bother my Sunday school teacher with questions about dinosaurs and Adam and Eve. You do realize that you can be Christian AND believe evolution is true?<BR/><BR/>I think John Loftus had a similar testimony where his faith was shaken by evolution. But there was a Catholic pope who said that evolution could be true. The Bible doesn't really explain HOW God created man. I don't for a second believe that the earth is 5,000 years old and neither do most Christians. A long time ago Christians insisted that you had to believe the earth was flat to be a believer. So why didn't you abandon your faith when you realized the earth was round? <BR/><BR/>The truth is the Bible is NOT a science book and it doesn't pretend to be. <BR/><BR/>I also don't believe that Noah's Arc or the tower of Babal are true. I don't believe God ever told the Israelites to slaughter women and children. But I keep an open mind. I'm humble enough to admit that I can be wrong.<BR/><BR/>It seems like you could have just moved to a more liberal/modern Christian denomination.<BR/><BR/>I still want to understand why you lost your faith in Jesus (without having to read you book).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-42377751090295624882007-05-25T16:12:00.000-04:002007-05-25T16:12:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-71399723898864159532007-05-25T15:31:00.000-04:002007-05-25T15:31:00.000-04:00Valerie, thanks so much for sharing this with us. ...Valerie, thanks so much for sharing this with us. Your story is repeated with variations by us all. For those interested in her book you can see it <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/dp/1411691253/" REL="nofollow">here</A>. We'll have it listed on the sidebar before long.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com