tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post1930367940668441009..comments2023-12-01T18:05:24.875-05:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: Front Row Seats in Hell, Can You Picture This?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-34034688062114448122010-11-02T14:02:28.843-04:002010-11-02T14:02:28.843-04:00@Dan,
> So what about all the billions of non-...@Dan,<br /><br />> So what about all the billions of non-human alien races that almost certainly populate the rest of the Universe? Do they all get to go burn in hell too...?<br /><br />I suggest reading Surface Detail by Iain Banks. It's on this very subject!sigfpehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08096190433222340957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-91806046729659117782010-03-13T21:46:52.967-05:002010-03-13T21:46:52.967-05:00In reply to Beowulf2K8:
How about this, you sadis...In reply to Beowulf2K8:<br /><br />How about this, you sadistic son of a bitch? How about being made to feel exactly what the child went through in a kind of VR simulation, twice, then paraded around in front of the elect and having them all know what you did, and then being annihilated in front of a jeering crowd of them in a huge burst of flame after you've suffered a proportionate penalty?<br /><br />Do you have any idea what an eternity of that kind of suffering really means? Can you comprehend it? I don't think you can. You either never really examined it, or your heart is completely hardened and for that alone YOU deserve the same Hell you would inflict on others.<br /><br />Disgusting!Little Green Penguinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11539613407130346541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-52660817777932843752010-01-16T05:33:02.548-05:002010-01-16T05:33:02.548-05:00beowulf2k8
"Logically, wouldn't that mea...beowulf2k8<br /><br />"Logically, wouldn't that mean proportional punishment that fits the crime and not just a standard eternity in hell for everything..."<br /><br />Respectfully, I am curious about how you can decide, in your mind, when the punishment fits the crime?<br />For example, for someone who had tortured, raped and killed a 4 year-old child, you don't think hell would be appropriate for that person? What exactly *would* be the best punishment for a person who had committed such a crime?gleaner63https://www.blogger.com/profile/16176301366830968727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-3489750082595380582010-01-14T15:29:39.925-05:002010-01-14T15:29:39.925-05:00I think that a focus on 'hell' as being a ...I think that a focus on 'hell' as being a future destination is an avoidance mechanism that keeps us blindly cooperating with constructing 'hell on earth' in the here and now.Manifesting Mini Me (MMM)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08250513504254425163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-1936501664160724992010-01-14T10:11:54.053-05:002010-01-14T10:11:54.053-05:00Anthony writes:
Clergy knew its power from a very...Anthony writes:<br /><br /><i>Clergy knew its power from a very early stage, and they effectively put it to use for centuries.</i><br /><br />Daniel Dennett has argued against the "evil priest" explanation of religious doctrines, even if it does apply to Scientology. Nobody "invented" these ancient religions; they arose through complicated processes analogous to natural selection. We have hell-based christianity today as a kind of historical accident because it beat out the competition through an organic process, not because some "evil priest" designed it that way. <br /><br />Or in other words, the psychological effectiveness, and therefore "reproductive" success, of hell-based christianity created the priests, not the other way around.Mark Plushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03859046131830902921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-43960499739261008842010-01-14T02:26:06.183-05:002010-01-14T02:26:06.183-05:00Thanks for the link, John. :) Just for the record:...Thanks for the link, John. :) Just for the record: "Dr. Glenn Peoples rejects this doctrine too in favor of annihilation, and says why in a recent post"<br /><br />Actually, this isn't why I reject the traditional view. In a three part podcast series I explain why I reject it. Basically, I don't think the Bible teaches it, and I think it does teach annihilationism.Glennhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15365045662764795503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-3571572189586130372010-01-13T22:33:01.522-05:002010-01-13T22:33:01.522-05:002 Corinthians 5:10 "For we must all appear b...2 Corinthians 5:10 "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."<br /><br />Logically, wouldn't that mean proportional punishment that fits the crime and not just a standard eternity in hell for everything?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-61045297658395694692010-01-13T21:46:02.823-05:002010-01-13T21:46:02.823-05:00I apologize Mark. I certainly misunderstood you, ...I apologize Mark. I certainly misunderstood you, but I agree, there are certainly cultural reasons for its survival. Clergy knew its power from a very early stage, and they effectively put it to use for centuries.<br /><br />A great black eye on the history of our species.Exploring the Unknowablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15267687022642518868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-61235011160155775102010-01-13T20:38:56.086-05:002010-01-13T20:38:56.086-05:00That's your justification??!! Eternal Hell is ...<i>That's your justification??!! Eternal Hell is necessary to give life meaning??</i><br /><br />I never said I believed that. I look at christianity as a skeptical outsider, and I just present that as a conjecture to explain why the hell belief has stubbornly survived at the core of christian orthodoxy, while other views of the afterlife have remained on the fringe. The rationality of the belief has nothing to do with the competitive edge it apparently gave orthodox christianity over warm and fuzzy christian heresies which didn't threaten people with eternal punishment.Mark Plushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03859046131830902921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-29423443150945999582010-01-13T20:31:30.290-05:002010-01-13T20:31:30.290-05:00The main plotters of the failed 20th July 1944 Hit...The main plotters of the failed 20th July 1944 Hitler assassination attempt were ordered by Hitler to be hung by piano wire, to slowly strangle to death, with the procedure filmed in detail so that Hitler could delight in watching and re-watching the executions. <br /><br />I always felt sick contempt for this, typical of Hitler’s perverted mind. <br /><br />The doctrine of torture for an eternity for actions that would have occurred over a few short years of life - for many people mainly out of ignorance to what a supreme god required of them - always sounded completely cruel and barbaric, and completely running at variance to common justice, let alone considerations of mercy. <br /><br />To go further, and rejoice in the sufferings of this great majority of mankind who are supposed to be in this position makes the sick actions of Hitler seem very mild by comparison. <br /><br />Fortunately the Bible does not endorse this belief, showing rather that God desires the death of no one, and is prepared to extend mercy to all.Questerukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06659962107808147107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-5841377019751116702010-01-13T19:38:24.785-05:002010-01-13T19:38:24.785-05:00**and the one realm of existence where you wouldn&...**and the one realm of existence where you wouldn't expect this to exist would be that realm of existence governed by an omnibenevolent God**<br /><br />SorryExploring the Unknowablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15267687022642518868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-33530340513624617982010-01-13T19:36:14.781-05:002010-01-13T19:36:14.781-05:00That's your justification??!! Eternal Hell is...That's your justification??!! Eternal Hell is necessary to give life meaning??<br /><br />If that's the ONLY thing in your view that give my life meaning, then I don't want my life to have any meaning, whatsoever!!<br /><br />I was speaking with a Christian that I know very well last night, and I brought up to him the horror that awaits this world, if at its end, billions of people wil be sent to an everlasting hell, and he kept pleading with me, that while that may be true, I can still turn to god. But he, and most Christians don't get it. If I have to accept that the vast majority of the world is going to suffer forever, than there is nothing that you, nor even god, can give me that will bring me any solace, and this is why my waning days of being a believer in this putrid, repugnant doctrine were filled with unimaginable angst and terror.<br /><br />This is the worst possible thing imaginable that could happen to anyone, and the one realm of existence where you'd expect this to exists would be that realm of exist governed by an omnibenevolent God, but we are told the exact opposite. As John said once before, eternal Hell and omnibenevolent God are the definition of a contradiction. If that's not a contradiction, nothing is a contradiction, and if those two things exist simultaneously, then 2+2=5 and a square circle is a logically coherent idea. But I digress..<br /><br />If God could find no other way to get people to turn to him than by threatening them with an eternal hell, than he is certainly a limited god indeed, since any one of us fallible schlubs could threaten someone in kind, and probably get them to worship us. But if your God is so damn desirable, than threats and violence should have no place in his tools of getting you to turn to him. He should have to do nothing more than reveal himself. But, the creators of this faith obviously knew that wouldn't do, so fear-mongering was the next logical step. <br /><br />That this doctrine still has so much support is almost mind boggling....Exploring the Unknowablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15267687022642518868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-19203077794417088922010-01-13T13:46:24.718-05:002010-01-13T13:46:24.718-05:00Jef writes:
It's not that life has no meaning...Jef writes:<br /><br /><i>It's not that life has no meaning if there is no afterlife - that can be resolved by the existence of heaven for believer and annihilation for non-believers.</i><br /><br />Then why didn't that become the dominant orthodox doctrine? Universalism, where everyone goes to heaven regardless, doesn't give people the incentive to become christians and transmit the gospel down through the centuries; Annihilationism apparently doesn't scratch the meaning-of-life itch adequately. So Eternal Punishment of the unredeemed arose as a stable compromise: Everyone's life has meaning, in the sense that they don't pass out of existence forever; but the threat of hell gives christians a reason to practice the faith diligently and keep the church in business.<br /><br />We also have an unclaimed box where the saved face annihilation and the unsaved receive eternal punishment; but as far as I know, nobody has argued for that doctrine.Mark Plushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03859046131830902921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-80865852018627251482010-01-13T13:20:42.522-05:002010-01-13T13:20:42.522-05:00I don't understand the shocking nature of Tert...<i>I don't understand the shocking nature of Tertullian's famous passage. Christians apparently fear above all else that if human life ends permanently at death, it lacks meaning.</i><br /><br />Seriously that's what you get out of Tertullian's passage?<br /><br />What I get out of that passage is a deep abiding need for revenge against non-Christians that did not come while they were alive, and so must come when they're dead. And not just come, but be presented as spectacle so that Tertullian <i>can watch them as they're tortured</i> and taunt them for being unbelievers.<br /><br />It's not that life has no meaning if there is no afterlife - that can be resolved by the existence of heaven for believer and annihilation for non-believers. It's that there's a need for the believer like Tertullian to see his personal vision of vengeance enacted against those who opposed him. That's the ugly part of it. The need for revenge - and the need for those who were wrong to see that you were right and they were wrong.Jerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10060430253113856206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-2730708183607267122010-01-13T12:38:50.123-05:002010-01-13T12:38:50.123-05:00I don't understand the shocking nature of Tert...I don't understand the shocking nature of Tertullian's famous passage. Christians apparently fear above all else that if human life ends permanently at death, it lacks meaning. So God, according to christian assumptions, has done the damned a favor by showing that their earthly lives had meaning after all. Annihilationism has never gotten traction as an orthdox doctrine for that reason; moreover, it sounds <b>way</b> too much like the materialist view of death.Mark Plushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03859046131830902921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-7828286340789483122010-01-13T11:38:25.147-05:002010-01-13T11:38:25.147-05:00So what about all the billions of non-human alien ...So what about all the billions of non-human alien races that almost certainly populate the rest of the Universe? Do they all get to go burn in hell too, or do they each get their own magical invisible man to offer them redemption for his own mistakes? Where is the magical torture monster going to find room to put all of these people?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00518904025597293672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-33270321443803156662010-01-13T11:28:38.857-05:002010-01-13T11:28:38.857-05:00busterggi,
I think you're right. Getting rev...busterggi,<br /><br />I think you're right. Getting revenge is a very strong motivation in humans.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-52763054368210289812010-01-13T11:24:55.812-05:002010-01-13T11:24:55.812-05:00Its not a carrot for me, not at all. I'd rathe...Its not a carrot for me, not at all. I'd rather burn with someone than take joy in their burning.<br />This seems an example of very frustrated Christians. Also sinful thoughts, methinks. <br />But even the greatest of Christians are but sinners.Double Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01155106167479411948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-14623766875051278632010-01-13T11:03:50.646-05:002010-01-13T11:03:50.646-05:00Sublimated vengence, not the glories of heaven, is...Sublimated vengence, not the glories of heaven, is the real carrot for believers.busterggihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02146221182670363053noreply@blogger.com