Now What, Christian?
The year was 1995. I was just about to begin preaching school, and when so much was going right for me as I went through every day, tinged with anticipation of the good things that awaited me in the ministry, I was troubled. I wasn't just troubled, I was stumped, disarmed by what someone, an atheist, had asked me. I was an outgoing personal evangelist for ten months before this as I hit the ground running at my conversion to save a sin-sick, dying world. I was used to facing tough questions while "witnessing" to unbelievers, but as a certain young, un-intimidating, blond-haired man sat before me (an atheist whom my preaching friends thought I had a better chance at converting), I was stopped dead in my tracks.
They were wrong. Not only did I fail to convert him, but he asked a question that totally disarmed me and made us all squirm. I had no answer for it, no sharp retort that would make me, my friends, and our faith look cool and sophisticated.
"Well, I honestly don't believe in the bible or Jesus. I've tried but I can't, so what is one to do if they can't believe?" I had no answer for him. I had never faced this question before. After unsuccessfully making an argument from Pascal's Wager, I think I remember saying something to him, like "just keep trying and God will providentially show you."
"So in the mean time, if I die without believing, am I going to burn?", he asked. After a long pause, and with an embarrassed look on my face, I said, "Yes, you will, but I will pray for you that God will grant you the time to repent."
I felt terrible saying this. The atheist was very soft spoken. He was an almost speechless kid, not particularly well versed in argument or atheology. He just couldn't believe. Our church youth group had been stringing this guy along for a while, asking him to pray and sing and come to youth functions with us. He did, but it was all to no avail. We never could convert him.
Before our conversation ended, I was compelled to say something rude. I tried one last time to guilt-trip him with a disturbing, unsettling comment that would prod him into submission to the fearsome almighty. Since the Bible made it clear to "seek and ye shall find," and "to him who knocks, it shall be opened" (Matthew 7:7), and since Jesus and his word could never be wrong, this could only mean that this young man who struck me as nothing but sincere and forthright in his desire to believe, didn't really want to believe. His heart was captured by satan, and I had to help him break free. I knew I was really honoring my God by saying this to finish off our conversation, "Too bad you're choosing to burn in Hell then! 'The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.'" He sharply acknowledged my slightly aggressive tone and said, "So because I can't believe, I deserve to burn?" I backed off him with something soft, like, "Just remember that in the time it takes you to come to belief, you are still lost and will burn in hell if you die in the mean time, but I will keeping pray for you." I thought I could get him to believe out of fear. But instead of getting a rise out of him, he just calmly glanced around, collecting his thoughts, and said again, "Well, if I can't believe, I can't believe now, can I? Why should I burn for following my brain?" As the discussion continued, his honesty continued to shine right through, making me yet more uncomfortable. He kept on inquiring what to do since he couldn't believe.
Out of options and desperate to make a convert, I said again what so many preachers say, "Just try and live the Christian lifestyle first and faith will develop later." He just grinned, shook his head, assuring me it wouldn't work, got into his car, and drove off. I never saw him again, and I don't even remember his name, but I think of him from time to time.
My preaching friends and I jested amongst ourselves how sad it will be to see that man's poor soul burning in Hell. One of my friends said to me, "I hope the Lord causes something bad to happen to him so he will turn to God." I shutter to think how I actually found such a statement appropriate at the time!
Leaving this discussion, I was angry at myself for not having the convincing words to convert him. I was also angry at the preachers I looked up to for not giving me the proper arguments to win over a hungering soul. I lost out to the devil. I felt defeated and weak.
Just less than ten years later, I found myself in exactly this man's shoes. In the summer of 2003, my wife, still a staunch believer, commended my soul to hell. When we began to argue over my decision to leave the ministry, I asked my wife, "What am I supposed to do? I can't believe in theism anymore. I've tried." Her words, "Then you'll just have to go to hell!" Amazing the role reversals life puts us through, wouldn't you say?
To this very day, there is no Christian who can deal with this question. They are painfully disarmed by it, and I can see why. It hurts to be out of options, to see a problem and know you can't fix it.
I want to take this time and ask our Christian readers, what do we hellbound infidels do now that your apologetics have failed, and your arguments and testimonies proven ineffective in converting us back to the fold? We've prayed and cried, and reflected on our inner-selves. We've read and studied and meditated and reflected some more on our sinful, depraved consciences, now what? What if we are never providentially led back into God-belief as most atheists aren't? What if we breathe our last breaths as unbelievers, painfully thinking to ourselves, "But I can't believe!" What should we expect when we wake up in the next world? Fire? Torture? Darkness? Tumultuous agony for eternity? When all your quips and quotes, your testimonies and trilemmas, your apologetics and promises, have failed to pierce our targeted hearts, then what?
Should we be thinking about how in hell we'll finally have the faith we wanted here on Earth and finally got the answers we sought, but now it's too late? Should we be thinking about how we had the freewill to believe, if only we'd used it, even though we couldn't use it because we couldn't believe? Should we be thinking about what we will say to God, the angels, and our fellow condemned souls as we are ushered off to the empire of the damned?
Now what, Christian? What are we to do? Where are your answers now? What witnessing tool will you whip out to finish this job? What assurances, what hope can you give us?
(JH)
"Well, I honestly don't believe in the bible or Jesus. I've tried but I can't, so what is one to do if they can't believe?" I had no answer for him. I had never faced this question before. After unsuccessfully making an argument from Pascal's Wager, I think I remember saying something to him, like "just keep trying and God will providentially show you."
"So in the mean time, if I die without believing, am I going to burn?", he asked. After a long pause, and with an embarrassed look on my face, I said, "Yes, you will, but I will pray for you that God will grant you the time to repent."
I felt terrible saying this. The atheist was very soft spoken. He was an almost speechless kid, not particularly well versed in argument or atheology. He just couldn't believe. Our church youth group had been stringing this guy along for a while, asking him to pray and sing and come to youth functions with us. He did, but it was all to no avail. We never could convert him.
Before our conversation ended, I was compelled to say something rude. I tried one last time to guilt-trip him with a disturbing, unsettling comment that would prod him into submission to the fearsome almighty. Since the Bible made it clear to "seek and ye shall find," and "to him who knocks, it shall be opened" (Matthew 7:7), and since Jesus and his word could never be wrong, this could only mean that this young man who struck me as nothing but sincere and forthright in his desire to believe, didn't really want to believe. His heart was captured by satan, and I had to help him break free. I knew I was really honoring my God by saying this to finish off our conversation, "Too bad you're choosing to burn in Hell then! 'The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.'" He sharply acknowledged my slightly aggressive tone and said, "So because I can't believe, I deserve to burn?" I backed off him with something soft, like, "Just remember that in the time it takes you to come to belief, you are still lost and will burn in hell if you die in the mean time, but I will keeping pray for you." I thought I could get him to believe out of fear. But instead of getting a rise out of him, he just calmly glanced around, collecting his thoughts, and said again, "Well, if I can't believe, I can't believe now, can I? Why should I burn for following my brain?" As the discussion continued, his honesty continued to shine right through, making me yet more uncomfortable. He kept on inquiring what to do since he couldn't believe.
Out of options and desperate to make a convert, I said again what so many preachers say, "Just try and live the Christian lifestyle first and faith will develop later." He just grinned, shook his head, assuring me it wouldn't work, got into his car, and drove off. I never saw him again, and I don't even remember his name, but I think of him from time to time.
My preaching friends and I jested amongst ourselves how sad it will be to see that man's poor soul burning in Hell. One of my friends said to me, "I hope the Lord causes something bad to happen to him so he will turn to God." I shutter to think how I actually found such a statement appropriate at the time!
Leaving this discussion, I was angry at myself for not having the convincing words to convert him. I was also angry at the preachers I looked up to for not giving me the proper arguments to win over a hungering soul. I lost out to the devil. I felt defeated and weak.
Just less than ten years later, I found myself in exactly this man's shoes. In the summer of 2003, my wife, still a staunch believer, commended my soul to hell. When we began to argue over my decision to leave the ministry, I asked my wife, "What am I supposed to do? I can't believe in theism anymore. I've tried." Her words, "Then you'll just have to go to hell!" Amazing the role reversals life puts us through, wouldn't you say?
To this very day, there is no Christian who can deal with this question. They are painfully disarmed by it, and I can see why. It hurts to be out of options, to see a problem and know you can't fix it.
I want to take this time and ask our Christian readers, what do we hellbound infidels do now that your apologetics have failed, and your arguments and testimonies proven ineffective in converting us back to the fold? We've prayed and cried, and reflected on our inner-selves. We've read and studied and meditated and reflected some more on our sinful, depraved consciences, now what? What if we are never providentially led back into God-belief as most atheists aren't? What if we breathe our last breaths as unbelievers, painfully thinking to ourselves, "But I can't believe!" What should we expect when we wake up in the next world? Fire? Torture? Darkness? Tumultuous agony for eternity? When all your quips and quotes, your testimonies and trilemmas, your apologetics and promises, have failed to pierce our targeted hearts, then what?
Should we be thinking about how in hell we'll finally have the faith we wanted here on Earth and finally got the answers we sought, but now it's too late? Should we be thinking about how we had the freewill to believe, if only we'd used it, even though we couldn't use it because we couldn't believe? Should we be thinking about what we will say to God, the angels, and our fellow condemned souls as we are ushered off to the empire of the damned?
Now what, Christian? What are we to do? Where are your answers now? What witnessing tool will you whip out to finish this job? What assurances, what hope can you give us?
(JH)
19 comments:
I'm a Christian, and I don't believe that either you or the young man you tried to convert are going to hell, so I'm not sure how to answer your pointed question.
I can say that the brand of Christianity which you practiced seems particularly callous, and as such unequipped to meet the spiritual needs of people such as yourself and the man in your story.
My heart goes out to you and to him, because, as you've correctly noted, both of you have tried in all sincereity to believe, and have failed to do so. My heart also goes out to your wife, who must have taken your deconversion very hard indeed.
Personally I think that you have a deep and abiding faith. I'm not saying that to be patronizing, nor am I projecting my own theism on to you. Rather, I am expressing admiration at your ability to follow your own convictions, risking your vocation and the health of your marriage to follow your conscience. That is more faith than many Christians, especially those so willing to consign souls to hell just because of metaphysical disagreements, express.
Personally, I think that God's grace is sufficient for you, whether you believe in God or not. I can't imagine serving a God who feels in some way threatened by those who point out how inadequate our ideas of God are, even if they do so because they have stopped believeing in the God represented by those imperfect ideas.
But I suspect that I'm not the sort of Christian targeted by your post. Hopefully someone with a narrower definition of grace will in some meaningful way be impacted by your challenge.
Wow, great post and great comment as well. The inability to believe is part of what I went through as well. Looking back, I can see it was always my problem, and in order to combat it, I tried to push my faith further, playing the "If I could..."
If only I could pray more, put more into my worship, I would have a great faith. Yet no matter how much I put into it, I could not gain the faith I was looking for.
One thing that I think about is that if god is truly one of infinite love, how can hell exist? Isn't hell a limititation on something infinite?
Why would god create us capable of reason and then demand that we act in a manner contrary to our creation?
I came to the same spot you reached, where I could no longer go against my conscience.
For me it was a very liberating feeling to quit fighting my mind and finally embrace what my mind was telling me.
Frank, I read your blog response to my article. I didn't notice a place to respond to it, why?
I'm afraid you are too intolerant and fundamentalist in your mindset to objectively listen to anything anyone here says. I'll just say this...
First, I was a new convert at the time, only ten months old in the faith and not sagely in making converts. That's why I was preparing to head to seminary, which I later did.
Second, 4 different preachers and 6 lay-ministers had talked with the boy before me and none of them had any luck. We had already presented to him what we thought was convincing. He wasn't convinced. That's why we were out of answers and "stumped." But as far as "saving" people was concerned, I was pretty good at it.
Third, you said that we don't save people, but God does. That any believer knows. It's accomodative language (by me bringing the Gospel of the Lord, I was "saving" him). You make an issue out of absolutely nothing. Besides, you act like God doesn't want to save some and does others. Why didn't God open this man's heart? He wanted to believe and couldn't, yet your monstrous deity has no problem torturing people that HE refuses to enlighten!
One last thing, if anyone was ever "saved", I was. When my book, "The Bible's X Files" comes out early next year, you can read all about it and then tell me I wasn't what deluded religious people call "saved."
(JH)
Well, thank those of you who think I am a decent person and that I won't burn in fire, but Christianity teaches otherwise.
Plus, a lax, universalist version of Christianity has no urgency behind it. That is, a Christianity that is not required for salvation is just a helpful surplus of knowledge, nothing more. This minimizes it's importance altogether, unlike this passage...
"And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. Go out into the high ways and biways and compel them to come in" (Luke 14:23)
I just can't see how modern Christians find the authority to maintain their dignity and acceptance of unbelief. It isn't biblical.
People are changing, as are their religious attitudes. They are becoming more tolerant, just like overall modern cultural evolution demands.
(JH)
I asked my wife, "What am I supposed to do? I can't believe in theism anymore. I've tried." Her words, "Then you'll just have to go to hell!" Amazing the role reversals life puts us through, wouldn't you say?
Indeed. You were once prescribing hellfire for peoples' woes, and now you find yourself receiving it.
To this very day, there is no Christian who can deal with this question. They are painfully disarmed by it, and I can see why. It hurts to be out of options, to see a problem and know you can't fix it.
The answer: nothing. Calvinists agree with me. THey say that only God could bring you to repentance. So what do you do now? Just keep living, and if you wind up in hell, there's not a goddam thing you could do about it, since God prepared you as a "vessel fit for destruction".
John,
I have tried to engage Frank Walton in discussion via emial. I think he is only interested in smug dogmatic self riteousness.
He told me he doesn't allow responses on his blog because allegedly some atheists were posting "inappropriate and pornagraphic material." I think the real reason is he has no interest in dialogue.
Whenever I read posts on this site, I am reminded of Luke 8:5-15 (parable of the sower). Particulary, verse 13, "They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away." There is an excellent exposition in the "Way of the Master" series, on 'back-sliders'.
The question often asked is, "Why do people back-slide?"
The answer is, "They have no roots."
What are roots, here? The roots of faith are not blind belief. Not a feeling. They develop from contrition, repentance, humility.
Contrition - not just guilt, a realization of what you have done that is disgusting to God. We all have things we are not proud of (or at least shouldn't be :). God can forgive anything, really. But you must admit it was wrong (no excuses or rationalizations).
Repentance - a promise to turn away from sin. This is an internal change; from a sinner, to a believer who stumbles.
Another relevant passage is James 4:6 "Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble."
When reading the Bible, do so with humility: say "God, I cannot understand you, help me to understand." Don't say, "I am smart. I can figure this out."
Don't substitute religious procedures for real, inward change.
Nedbrek, I appreciate your humble and direct way of trying to answer my challenge, but you have not hit it head on.
I once agreed with you, but now know that I don't need a savior. How do you convince someone who is like I am now, whether they've been religious or not? Anyone who already accepts the scriptures and the depraved concept of sin has no problem with what you're saying. The problem is showing someone that from a naturalist's perspective who doesn't agree with you. You and I are just like any other animal. We do things, some things we call good and others we call bad, but for natural reasons. I don't believe I am a sinner. I detest a doctrine that calls a human animal a vile creature worthy of torment. That is exactly what you are saying.
When you tell me to read the bible with humility and ask God to help me understand it, do you really not think I've tried that? After nine years in the ministry, how wouldn't I have? I'm afraid, despite your sincerity, you have no good answer.
(JH)
I cannot convince you. God respects your free will. You will never find conclusive proof of God, that would deny you the choice.
I do not envy you. 2 Peter 2:21 "For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them." Having once felt the fool, it is that much harder to once again admit to foolishness and make a change.
No one is worthy of torment, God's will is for all to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."). That is not to deny that the possibility of torment is real.
I am saying that humans were once good, but have fallen. We see the good and the potential for good (all cultures agree on certain goods). But evil is there. Evil is real, and it is a power greater than us. But less than God.
nedbrek said...
I cannot convince you. God respects your free will. You will never find conclusive proof of God, that would deny you the choice.
My reply;
Nevermind for now that God always violates freewill by strengthening, guiding and providentially helping his people as per the words of scripture, and nevermind now how freewill does not exist. Your words tell me nothing. Well, they tell me one thing...it tells me that your god is like an abusive husband who says to those he is "forced" to beat, "Look what you made me do!" Like a true guilt-monger, he always puts the blame back on poor, weak, decrepid humanity!
I do not envy you. 2 Peter 2:21 "For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them." Having once felt the fool, it is that much harder to once again admit to foolishness and make a change.
My reply;
This doesn't help me. I wanted, like all believers do, to remain faithful. Problem is, it would be an act. It would mean nothing. All you are doing is what I did, repeating the spooky, threatening warning of your god. Doesn't help.
No one is worthy of torment, God's will is for all to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."). That is not to deny that the possibility of torment is real.
My reply;
What are you talking about? Your god himself created a place of torment for wayward souls. He himself created an evil angel that started all this troubled. It falls on him, not on powerless creatures who didn't know any better. Your god also created immortal natures that cannot just die like cats and dogs. They must be around to suffer. Instead of allowing the faithful to be rewarded and the unfaithful to sleep in death, he made them suffer. Why make them suffer? Why make them suffer forever? This demonstrates the tyrannical nature of any god who would demand damnation for disbelief (or for any other reason for that matter). I can't anymore believe in your god than you can in Santa Claus...now wouldn't it be cruel if a deity's representative came along and said, "unless you believe in Santa, you will burn!"? Of course it would. You cannot believe what you don't believe.
I am saying that humans were once good, but have fallen. We see the good and the potential for good (all cultures agree on certain goods). But evil is there. Evil is real, and it is a power greater than us. But less than God.
My reply;
OK, I agree that there is evil, but so what? Evil is natural. A dog who takes meet from another against pack ordinances is evil to it's kind, but I don't want to torture violators. Besides, the things you consider evil are not evil at all. WE would agree on many moral evils, but never on torture. Your contention that mankind was once pure is laughable. Mankind has always been just like our animal kindred. You take what is good and do away with the bad, and that's it! But you are trying to justify a god who threatens unbelievers, who is a bully who offers the bribe of a reward for good and threats for the bad. That is not only a morally inferior system of morals, but very cruel.
Do you see how bad this is getting? You have no way to instill faith, no way to overturn the irrationality that comes in your belief system, so you make excuses and leave all the thinkers behind as though we are "choosing" damnation. Not true. I was well paid, well loved, and dedicated as a minister. No way I would have left had the logical problems not been there. I prayed and cried and begged to find the strength to remain, but it never came.
Of course, I know it isn't pleasant to think about so you'd rather accuse me of being sinful and hard-hearted than openminded, because otherwise that would mean your religiou system is to blame for my departure. That's too uncomfortable for you to consider. I don't blame you. Go on thinking what eases your mind.
(JH)
Joe, I'm not really sure what to say. I will read your web page, and see what specifically has troubled you so much.
Is it the existance of Hell that troubles you? God is not what we make Him. He is what He says He is, and we struggle to deal with that. Justice demands punishment for those who do wrong. It is much better than the justice of this world.
I wouldn't say you are going to burn. Only God knows that, and Jesus will judge. We are called to spread the Good News, and save people. To give certainty of salvation.
To say that God threatens us is unfair. If you were playing in traffic, and I said "Come away from there!", would you think I was trying to control you?
The Puritans had a doctrine known as "Seeking", which is particularly related to this type of situation. John Gerstner discusses it in his 3 Vol work The Rational Biblical Theology of Jonathan Edwards.
Joe,
Could I inquire if you ever actually believed in hell or heaven? What *reason* does the bible provide that unbelievers will be cast into hell? I will gladly answer your question, but first must know your presuppositions.
ok, I just don't have the time to answer everyone's comments here. Please go to my website or my forums for that, but let me just say that nothing anyone is saying is facing up to the gravity of what is presented in the article. The Bibles teaches damnation for disbelief (Mark 16:15-16). It teaches that God will destroy sinners in a place called Hell (Luke 12:4-5). That means God created the Hell (whether or not the fire is literal doesn't matter. What matters is, there will be torture for unbelievers). You can't get god off the hook and say he isn't threatening us by saying that the equivalent of his statements (threats) are "Come out of the street." to keep us from getting hit by a car. He created this Hell and he has the power to never have allowed sin to manifest in the first place, yet people like me exist and are headed for hell to suffer. You cannot rectify this problem.
(JH)
Rich said...
You are the one in control of your own destiny, not God. The choices are laid before you to make. He did make hell and it was for those who sin, but that doesn't release you from your own choices. You can't pass the blame onto someone. You are not controlled by anyone. I am not tryig to release God from any blame. That power to never let sin maniferst would mean 100% control over every thought and action. That's what you want?
My Reply;
But your god set it up so that bad choices could result in Hell (even if I agreed with you that there was freewill).
By your own admission, he created a hell, and obviously an angel who would fall away, taking others with him. God sees nothing wrong with torture. You just admitted it.
As I said, you try and put it off on man like a wifebeater who beats his wife, "Look what you made me do!" He doesn't see fit to lead people only to him, which he could do without miracles and intervening in someone's mind. Besides, everytime God gives a Christian strength through the spirit (Eph. 3:16-17) he is violating his own "freewill" of yours anyway, to be consistent with your "100% control" position. He allows us to make mistakes that will cause us to eternally suffer. That is what I mean by a tyrant. He is a tyrant who sees nothing wrong with torture.
You just ignore the fact that many of us have tried to believe. I used to and no longer can. He did not give me the strength or guidance to see my way around my damnation, which I wanted to do. I didn't want to reject him. That was the point of my article. You can provide no answers to someone who CAN'T believe. You can't just keep putting it back on me saying, "You have freewill." Fact is, I (and my fellow ex-believers here) couldn't beieve, and you can't face that.
(JH)
Joe,
As I said before, this type of question has been answered before by the Puritans, but since I doubt you will look up John Gerstner, Edwards, Hooker, et al, then I will explain a bit. This assumes that you believe that God exists but cannot believe in Him.
Congregants would ask the Puritan pastor at the end of services, "But what if I can't just believe? I believe that God exists but can't trust in Christ." The Puritan pastor would respond that though you may not be able to believe, you can still *do* the things that God has commanded. For instance, you can study your Bible instead of watching porn (or whatever else), go to church rather than going to the bar, be faithful to your wife, do everything to the best of your ability, etc. Of course, he was advised not to do all these things hypocritically.
Even though you do these 'good' things, they are still sin since not done out of a love for God. But these sins are not as bad as the following: if I went to bar when I had the opportunity to go to church, look at porn rather than read the Bible, etc. With these latter sins, not only am I sinning against God because I don't do these out of a love for Him, but I'm also sinning in the actual practice of wickedness, which entails a greater punishment. I would also be giving up the opportunity that I have.
Since God uses means to accomplish His ends, it would be more likely to come to belief if one were attending the preaching of the Word, et al. than not doing any of these things.
This fits in well with the Calvinistic outlook of the depravity of man.
This is an extremely rough sketch as I'm a bit hurried.
OK, I won't respond to preaching and silliness, but I'll say this...
If things must be done to obey God without faith, then that is hypocritical! You can't have it both ways! The reasoning of you believers is ridiculous. Just admit you have no answer for these situations.
When someone can't believe, they can't believe! All they can do is prepare themselves for Hell.
(JH)
Joe said, "OK, I won't respond to preaching and silliness, but I'll say this..."
Well you asked what you are to do at the end of your entry, and I told you. Not sure how that deserves this remark. What did you think people were going to say to you?
Joe said, "If things must be done to obey God without faith, then that is hypocritical! You can't have it both ways! The reasoning of you believers is ridiculous. Just admit you have no answer for these situations."
Umm that's why I prefaced what I said that a 'seeker' (in this sense of the word) is not to 'pretend' as if he's a believer. He does the things mentioned *knowing* that he is not a Christian and *knowing* that he doesn't have faith, so I don't see how that position can be accused of promoting hypocrisy.
By the way, who is guilty and deserving of more punishment according to Jesus - Tyre and Sidon or Sodom and Gomorrah?
Joe said, "When someone can't believe, they can't believe! All they can do is prepare themselves for Hell."
And that's exactly my point, but don't forget the nuances and the assumptions of the position above.
Not exactly sure how your blog entry even constitutes an objection.
Instead of preaching hell and brimstone maybe you should have preached what Jesus taught - love thy neighbour as thyself, the grace of God and the fruits of the Spirit. You sound like you were a cult member touting for business, rather than a receiver of the Holy Spirit.
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