The "free gift" of salvation not so free

I've thought that there is a fundamental contradiction in the evangelical message of salvation because, according to them, it is NOT Christ's atoning death that saves you, it is YOUR BELIEF in it. (otherwise everyone would be saved). Therefore, this is not a salvation by grace, it is another salvation by works, albeit cognitive work. You must DO several things - find out about and understand the atonement, accept that Jesus dies for your sins, feel guilt and express your sorrow for being responsible, ask forgiveness, and invite Jesus "into your heart" to rule for the rest of your life.

IF you are sincere enough and it works, you get your life insurance (or fire insurance). Many people do this many times because they aren't sure. What do these things mean? What does it mean to "believe," "confess sin," or "accept Jesus"? These are mental events with no objective evidence. And how does one force oneself to believe if the story makes no rational sense? Can you believe in Santa Claus again just because you need to save your life? With the threat of hell-fire condemnation, this is terrifying, crazy-making stuff. It's no wonder that "believers" exhibit so much mental illness, including psychosis. Taught to children, I consider it child abuse of the worst kind.

I've wandered a bit from my initial point, which was that this doctrine is a salvation by works, ie, it is the accomplishment of the believer. Maybe that is why fundamentalists are so smug.

Aside from the obvious problem of people being unsaved because they are too rational, smart, enlightened or integrous, what about those who, because of the requirements of this deal, are too dumb to understand it, don't know about it, only believe a little bit, etc. etc.? Even in our human justice system, people are not condemned for what they are thinking.

Here's an analogy. Say you are in danger of a calamitous death and someone comes along and puts a present near you which will save your life - a FREE GIFT our of pure benevolence!! But you can't have it until you notice it, find horrible fault in yourself, feel sorry and grateful, manage to get to it and pick it up, and then promise to devote your life to the gift-giver. If you are blind or lame or just don't want a gift, good luck to you. How can they ever say this kind of gift is unearned??? And isn't it pretty weird that the gift-giver is one and the same as the creator of the torment you get if you don't accept the gift? Talk about strings attached. Imagine if we gave each other gifts like that.

I just had a birthday recently, and I'm glad ordinary humans have a better idea of giving.

Marlene Winell,


RichD said...

Maybe "You must DO several things - find out about and understand the atonement, accept that Jesus dies for your sins, feel guilt and express your sorrow for being responsible, ask forgiveness, and invite Jesus "into your heart" to rule for the rest of your life." isn't REAL work kindof like some people are not real Christians, or even though they think they have fulfilled the requirements they aren't REALLY saved.

I hope to see some feedback for this because it is something I have never really had a good answer to. Maybe, just maybe, there isn't one.

Anonymous said...

Salvation IS totally free! There are no requirements whatsoever! NONE! A lot of what Christianity teaches about Hell and salvation is totally bogus. Jesus NEVER spoke about HELL - not one single time! He spoke about GEHENNA! Gehenna was a valley that was used as a garbage dump where they threw the bodies of those who had been stoned, hanged, crucified etc. Jesus was warning of the death penalty and a nasty burial place where their worm does not die and the fire is not put out. People were often stoned back in those days for various offenses. ALL of the Gehenna warnings are earthly warnings, not about any eternal torment in the afterlife. There is never any mention of Satan being in Gehenna. There is no mention of the gospel as the way of escaping Gehenna!

The rich man in Luke is is in HADES - not Gehenna. Why do you suppose that is? The Bible says that the church will prevail against the gates of Hades! So all will be saved out of Hades. Hades and death are both cast into the Lake of Fire in Revelation.

In Matt 25:46 we have the expression "eternal punishment". The Greek is KOLASIS AIONIOS. Kolasis is corrective discipline. It is eternal in it's results. Please compare the expression "eternal redemption" in hebrews. Does that mean that Jesus will keep dying on the cross over and over again for all eternity? Of course not! The eternal fire was prepared for the devil and his angels - NOT for people! So people cannot stay there because it was never prepared for them. Also, there is no mention of the gospel in Matt 25 parable of the sheep and the goats! That judgement is based soley on good works done the "these my brethren". Not one word about accepting Christ, being born again, filled with the Spirit, being sons and daughters etc etc.

Eternal destruction will be of the carnal man that the spirit may be saved. Everyone will be restored to the Father through the power of the cross. The entire creation will be set free from it's bondage to corruption - Rom 8:21.

Read these promises!

1 Tim 4:10 - "God who is the Savior of ALL MEN, especially those who believe"!!!! Not "ONLY" those who believe!!!!

1 John 2:2 confirms - He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Romans 5:18 says - "So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there RESULTED justification of life to all men."

Romans 11:32 - "For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."

2 Corinthians 5:19 - "God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them."

Titus 2:11 - "For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men."

John 1:29 - "Behold the Lamb of God who TAKES AWAY the sin of the world"!

The sin issue, including the sin of rejecting Christ, was TAKEN AWAY at the cross! Jesus said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"! So everyone will go to Heaven. Hell is a lie!

goprairie said...

Yet - it is not really salvation by works because you cannot REALLY choose to believe. You can choose to pray, but once you cease to believe, you will not really expect any results. Even if you meditate and attain some sort of state where you might have 'felt god', because you read about brain science, you will remain skeptical and continute to beleive that your meditition shut down that part of your frontal cortex that defines you and other. You can choose to volunteer at the soup kitchen or pick up litter, but once you figure out there is no god and find the real explanations for what you thought was god, you cannot choose to go back.

ahswan said...

A couple of comments: First, I think the Lutherans would agree with most of what you say; the pop fundamentalist gospel has a "works" element to it that is not found in Paul's Gospel.

However, there is the concept of accepting the gift. I can tell you, "I bought this new house for you, it's completely paid for," and lay the keys on the table. If you refuse to pick up the keys and move in, it's your decision. To pick up the keys requires an action, but is the house still free? Of course! Is moving in "work"? Yes, but is the house still free? The answer, of course, is "yes."

Picking up the keys and moving in is not paying for the house; it's appropriating the gift. Likewise, believing we are "saved" by Christ's death and resurrection is not the same as working to earn our salvation.

Now, there are various lines of thinking concerning those who have not heard the Gospel besides the fundy line, including various forms of universalism. However, rejection of the Gospel once you have been made aware of the truth presents an entirely different issue. Can you knowingly reject salvation? It would appear that the answer is "yes."

C.S. Lewis' story "The Great Divorce" is an excellent treatment of these questions.

C. Andiron said...

Marlene, there is no 'salvation by works' (cognitive or otherwise) implied in Christianity.

Belief, faith, gratitude, etc. are the *results* of God's mercy, or the *means* through which that mercy works, but they are not *cause* of it. They aren't an obstacle course you have to overcome to earn salvation, but are the result of a regenerate heart.

You must 'do several things' to enjoy any gift. For the birthdays you mention for example, you've got to eat the cake!


Cromm said...

I can tell you, "I bought this new house for you, it's completely paid for," and lay the keys on the table. If you refuse to pick up the keys and move in, it's your decision.Aren't we talking about Christianity's version of salvation? Wouldn't it be more analogous to someone claiming that there's a house to be had, but that they personally can give you neither the keys nor the house's location, and oh by the way, the keys are totally intangible?

And that furthermore, you can never know for certain whether you have, in fact, found the keys until you walk into the house? And that this person has never, in fact, actually been to the house, but she has it on good authority that there is a house and only a particular set of keys will open the door? And that the authority in question is itself a book that nowhere records the testimony of anyone who claims to have been to the house themselves, but only to have met a guy who provided very convincing evidence (to them) for the existence of a house? With the caveats that none of that evidence is still around, and none of it can be replicated today.

And on top of that, the testimony recorded takes the form of a series of orally-transmitted narratives that were not written down until decades after the events they describe had passed?

Is that the kind of house we're "deciding" not to move into? Cause it sure seems that way to me.

Robin said...

I was always told that faith itself is a gift. It's by grace that we believe.

Grace comes then faith then more grace. So, it is a gift.

Acts 18:27:

When he arrived, he greatly helped those WHO THROUGH GRACE HAD BELIEVED.

M. Tully said...


Your analogy, "However, there is the concept of accepting the gift. I can tell you, "I bought this new house for you, it's completely paid for," and lay the keys on the table."

OK, this house, I can touch it, I can go inside and check out the floor plan, I can have an inspector check it for for structural integrity. I can have other inspectors check it for termites and compliance with electrical codes.

Got anything like that for heaven?

Oh yeah, and one more thing, omniscience? I create this pair of intelligent beings and then they do things I don't like (acquire knowledge). So I make their life hard.
Their offspring continue to do things I don't like, so I kill all of them off but a select group. Then, I'm still not happy with the results so I arrange another human sacrifice. Damn it, Failed again. Let me try this "works and beliefs" thing.

What exactly is the definition of omniscient?

mitchy4sure said...

Any time a decision is made under duress (which is different from merely obeying the law), legally it shouldn't be binding. And a gift of salvation like this is like receiving a gift from the Godfather ~ if you refuse it, you suffer. So how can it truly be a free gift that is freely accepted when the consequence for refusing it could result in you being tortured? For God so loved the world! Thank goodness our elections aren't run this way, but they are in dictatorships. It basically is "Vote for Jesus, accept him as your leader, and we won't burn your house down and ruin your life." So much for unconditional love! And to make it all the more absurd, any villan who decides to believe out of fear of hell would be saved by God, but any philanthropist who doesn't buy into the faith because it's illogical would be damned by God for eternity. What else should we expect from a religious cult leader who supposedly said mere cursing could land you in the fires of hell (Matthew 5:22, 13:40-42), even though he too curses (Matthew 23:1-33) and is considered sinless.

edson said...

Aha Marlene so you have thought it that way, huh? Really this goes to show how people are diverse in our thinking, but the warped one, is to think that your line of thought is the correct and the superior one.

I, in particular, think it this way. Ever since Adam and Eve "ate the forbidden fruit" and prior to Jesus atoning sacrifice, the humanity was by default lost in God's view. It meant that humans were a meaningless form of life on earth, according to God. They had no purpose other than to be born, suffer the stresses of life (of course plus enjoying life briefly - eating, drinking, sex, authority for some, and then to die forever. And thats was it and nothig more. In short it was a total failure and disappointment in some of God's adventurous works, humans. Who says that God does not fail (wink)?

Along the way, God figured out another plan (of course this is my line of reasoning, not necessarily biblical). And that's not to lose the entire to humanity, giving Satan a chance to laugh over God, " God you are not at all God for I destroyed your work you see"! And that's when God planned about the atonement through Jesus.

Now the question is what constitute a "free gift" of salvation? The answer is just that, a free gift. It means God no longer views the world of humans through Adam, but through Jesus. His anger has been full relieved. His dissapointment has been lifted. Christians, i.e the Church, gives God a sense of pride and and enjoyment when he looks down on earth, and I think God grades the Church differently to the rest. Of course it frustrates God when someone deliberately mocks God, but God no longer possess the same kind of wrath he used to possess when the likes of Dawkin, Hitchens and Harry MacCall of DC mocked God in the Old Testament times. Therefore the definition of "Hell" as per in Christianity are grossly exaggerated by christians out of anger when we preach the gospel and people refusing to respond positively or in some cases negatively with insults, mockings, even death. But I believe there is some sort of hell there. I dont believe Hitler and Mother Theresa will receive equal treatment in the eyes of God in the next world.

edson said...


Assuming that my earlier post was too vague and not understood, when you say

"it is NOT Christ's atoning death that saves you, it is YOUR BELIEF in it."

I think this statement is purely ambiguous for the atoning death of Jesus is for the saving the entire world, but for those who understand this, accept the atonement their entire lives reflect the acknowledgement of the sacrifice and cherishes in it, these constitute Christians, the Church which is also known as the body of Christ. This is at least what I understand.

To me there is a big difference in being saved and being a member of Christ body. The saved are many but the Church are few. Now I admit that I dont know what will be the status of those who deliberately reject the atoning sacrifice, they are saved but reject salvation. And for those who do not even understand the meaning of sacrifice out of several reasons beyond their reach, they are saved but do not constitute a Church. The hell thing is beyond me, but certainly this has nothing to do with punishment with fire or anything equivalent to that.

goprairie said...

edson, so your god could not get over his anger at adam and eve's betrayal, so he had to mke himself son that could be tortured and killed to help him get over it and be nice to his defective humans again? boy, you have to work hard to invent a story that works for you, don't you? you REALLY think that kind od a god is worth wasting time on?

goprairie said...

the salvation thing, if it were real, should not be like a birthday gift, or a lottery winnings, optional on the part of the receiver. wouldn't it be more like if you saw a person drowning in a pool? if they were thrashing around in there and about to go under, you might toss them the life ring first. But if they did not reach for it and use it, would you go 'oh they don't choose salvation' and walk away? or would you jump in and drag them to the edge and hoist them up onto the dry ground and if they had sucked in water, might you not try a little first aid to get them breathing again or call 911 for more help? saying it is an optional gift is like saying it is okay for god to walk away after he toss us the life ring. this is such an obviously flawed concept of a superior creating being that there must certainly be no truth to it, yet this jesus/choose your salvation thing is the core belief concept of most christain myth systems.

edson said...


Did you really understand what I wrote?

Apparently you are confusing your rationality in reasoning and a Christian doctrine of atonement. Obviously a Christain story is not a rational one. It makes no sense Trinity, God to die, resurrection and stuff. My attempt was to make sense out of these senseless things when trying to undestand the mystery of God. My first step was to acknowledge a biblical God is real.

Now when you ask " so your god could not get over his anger at adam and eve's betrayal, so he had to mke himself son that could be tortured and killed to help him get over it and be nice to his defective humans again?"

I answer yes. My God had simply lost the humanity to Satan. So in him becoming the man, it illustrated on his part, an awesome act of love such that he would rather be killed, in order to save the humanity. Was this a vain mission? Of course not. Believe me Jesus is the only single man that his story will never fades with history. Everyday that passes his name never ceases to be exalted, praised and bowed in reveration. Today billions of people call themselves Christians. And this trend of bowing unto Jesus has yet to reach the peak. There is a day when every person ever to walk on earth will salute and bow unto Jesus forever.

Obviously you will call me a fool, typical of atheists, but will you deny that the death of God was a meaningless death?

Scott said...

Robin wrote: I was always told that faith itself is a gift. It's by grace that we believe.
Robin, I think you've hit the nail on the head. You've been told faith is a gift, therefore you think it's a gift. But how can we know this is the case?

I've been told many of things by many people over a wide range of timeframes. Many of these things I wish were true. However, this doesn't mean that I believe they ARE true or that they make sense beyond being emotionally appealing.

Surely other people have different views on faith, and it's impossible for all of them to be correct. So why do you think you must be the one who's correct, instead of someone else? Furthermore, who's to say that anyone is correct since we have no way to separate wishful thinking from fact?

pwoon said...

Edson: I'm at awe at your brilliance and intellect. If you're not following the bible, then it's not Christianity.

"(of course this is my line of reasoning, not necessarily biblical)".

Are you really trying to use reason when it comes to religion? And you say we atheist use reason too much.

Scott said...


If God can and has failed in the past, then on what basis should we assume that he can save us in the future?

For example, why would the same God, who is supposedly so powerful and knowledgeable that he could create our universe with just the right properties so we could exist, "loose" humanity to one of his own angels? It's not even clear as to how God could "loose" anything.

God's actions in this scenario does not appear to reflect God's supposed properties.

In the same way, If God's first attempt was unsuccessful then why should we expect his second plan of atonement do get us out of our current situation?

Why couldn't he simply get it right the first time?

Better yet, if God is really all powerful, there need not be a second plan. He can simply snap his fingers and we all live happily ever after. However, if this were the case, there would be no reason for us to be in our current situation.

My attempt was to make sense out of these senseless things when trying to undestand the mystery of God.Surely, it would be possible to make up a more logically possible story than the Bible which supports the existence of God, but is this really saying much? We could create dozens of such scenarios and all of them can be correct. Nor do we have any reasonable way of deciding if any of them are remotely correct.

My first step was to acknowledge a biblical God is real.Your first step is was assert that God exists, then interpret the facts so they fit your assertion. This is the opposite from looking at the facts and reaching a conclusion.

Since you want God to exist, you have to figure out some scenario that explains how we find ourself in our current situation, despite God's existence. Otherwise, God might not exist! So you conclude that God failed.

But, on the other hand, the reason why you want God to exist is so he can save you from your current situation. So you must also think God is all powerful so he can triumph in the end. God cannot fail!

Do you see the conflict here? God must fail, otherwise he doesn't exist. But he cannot fail, otherwise he can't save you.

Obviously you will call me a fool, typical of atheists, but will you deny that the death of God was a meaningless death?You're putting the cart before the horse.

Who's to say that, if God existed, he could die? Even if it were possible, how do we know that he actually died? Why would he need to die if he is all powerful and all knowing?

The very limits of what you conciser logically possible or rational is often defined by the very story which you've created. This seems quite circular since your metric of what is rational or possible for God is defined by how God acts in his story.

So, before we can conceder God's death to have meaning, shouldn't we ask if it actually occurred?

Otherwise, you seem to have assumed God's death was factual because it's occurrence would "mean" you were saved. Not because we have sufficient reason to think it actually occurred.

Anonymous said...

I came to the conclusion, after 25 plus years as a Baptist pastor, that for all the talk about grace, about salvation being the free gift of God, we REALLY believe salvation is by works.

You MUST believe __________to be saved.

You must do ___________to be saved.

Even after being saved the works continue. Real Christians live a certain way, act a certain say, talk a certain way, go to certain churches, etc. Violate any of this and your salvation is questioned.

Recently I had a pastor friend in my home who was trying to win me back to the home team. For three hours we talked. He found out I voted for Obama. He found out that I didn't believe life begins at conception. He found out I believed the Bible had errors in it. He found out that I didn't believe the Jesus was the only way to salvation.

He told me a true Christian simply could NOT have such views as mine. (which is fine by me because I don't claim to be a Christian)

So salvation was not by grace it was by works. Believing and doing the right things.

Many of comments on this post by Christians reflect the typical worn out analogies that are uses to "prove" salvation is by grace.

It is real simple. Must I do ANYTHING to be saved?

Must I believe ANYTHING to be saved? (please no Calvinistic shell games or means and cause)

If I must DO or BELIEVE anything then there is a work required on my part.


edson said...

pwoon, scott:

I realize that to be a Christian you must believe in the bible in its entirety and not cherrypick. I, in principle, believe that whatever the bible says is true about all traditional doctrines as taught by christianity, such as salvation, heaven and hell, etc. However, God did not leave a chance for humans to know how exactly heaven or hell will be or any other doctrines unless these are revealed to you in spirit. And when it revealed to you it is just for your benefit to help you survive the faith. That's why Jesus left behind the Holy Spirit to teach us everything so that we may grow in faith time after time.

To demonstrate this, let us take the very same subject of debate, the Messiah doctrine as depicted in the Old Testament. It is not explicitly told in the OT that the messiah will be called Jesus, his mother Marry, will be killed on the cross by the Roman soldiers and his disciples will be called Peter and so and so. But does it mean that the messiah was not predicted that will be born as a child, suffer, die and then raise from the dead? So you see, the doctrines are there but subject to consummation different to what is traditionally taught. In fact jews thought the messiah will be a hero in a literal sense of the word.

Therefore I am convinced that when Jesus cried on the cross that "It was finished", it was truly finished. Humanity had been fully redeemed from the Devil. It was after that that he ordered his disciples to proclaim these Good News over all nations. And the mission continues today.

Now when you ask me why God chose that plan, couldn't he had done any better? That reveal on your part that sort of stubborn arrogance that is surely jerky. Why not ask God why he didin't give man 8 eyes, two on each side of the head to help see in all dimensions? Why not ask God why he didn't create squarely planets? These things are hard to know, we only know what is revealed unto us. A child will not ask a parent why he refuses to give him a razor to play with. And other such examples.

nomad said...

Scott hits the nail on the head when he asks "How do you know?" This is all hermeneutics, with each Christian interpreting the text according to his whim. (Even though, supposedly,the Bible is of no private interpretation.)As important as it is to get the interpretation right, the more critical issue is whether this is indeed the word of God. Literary criticism. How did this Bible come to be? Who wrote it and under what circumstances. Why are we to believe that their words are de facto the Word of God?

mikespeir said...


The question isn't whether the offer of salvation is free. The question is whether salvation is free. Salvation isn't being offered the house, it's living in the house. To live in the house requires more than being offered the house. It requires that you do what it takes to move in. Thus, even in your analogy we see salvation by works, not by faith alone.

Anonymous said...

Everyone will be saved. We will all be saved by the faithfulnes of Jesus Christ as the Last Adam! We are not going to Heaven because of OUR belief or OUR faithfulness. Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world. We are all going to Heaven because of what HE did! So, yes, it is 100% free!

The Rev. said...

The initial supposition is true if you are a Synergist, but for those of us who are Monergists, you are wrong.

We confess that salvation is of Christ alone and only in HIm. I never decided to believe, but faith was given as a gift. Now, gifts can certainly be rejected, but they are not earned, that would be pay.

The hellishness of hell is that people go there only because they refuse to be with a God / Jesus that they hate. He won't force you to spend eternity with Him, so you may have it your way.

Scott said...


Despite your reply, I'm still no closer to understating why you should expect God's second plan to succeed when his first plan has failed.

Did God learn something new he didn't know before? Did something unexpected happen that God did not anticipate? If so, what's to prevent the same thing from happening again?

Your view on God's past failures and future success appears to be an interpretation that makes you the personal beneficiary of both God's failure and triumph. But why should we really expect such an outcome?

snoyes said...

Thank you for this thoughtful post. I've been an 'evangelical' Christian for 30 years, and have come to the place of wondering what is so 'good' about the Good News. I believe in God, but I don't know if I can get behind this hell business anymore. Or this exclusivity of 'we are saved because of such and such' but everyone else is out. Don't tell my pastor dad that I got some books out on Universalism in my quest to figure all this out. :)

radar said...

1)find out about and understand the atonement - Nope. Christians are to tell the world about this, the unsaved are not told to find it. No one grows up hoping to understand atonement when they grow up.

2)accept that Jesus dies for your sins - Nope. Even Satan knows this. Just a knowledge of the work is of no redemptive value.

3)feel guilt and express your sorrow for being responsible Nope. Feelings come in reaction to things. You feel grief when a friend dies, joy when your team wins, etc. You only feel guilt for sin and joy from forgiveness if touched by the Holy Spirit

4)ask forgiveness, and invite Jesus "into your heart" to rule for the rest of your life. Nope. My brother and I said the "Jesus Prayer" as little kids so an older relative would quit telling us about Jesus all the time, but bad move, he just began bugging us to go to church. You can say prayers all day and it can mean nothing

When you are made aware of your condition by the Holy Spirit and answer God's call, in response you can feel things and pray things but the only "do" is to receive and accept that touch of forgiveness. It is simply a decision to accept or ignore.

Anonymous said...


I would like to reply to your first comment. You talked about God "getting over it." Heres the thing:

A man kidnapped two sisters on their way home from school, one is 6 the other is 9. He sexually abuses them and then dumps there bodies in a ditch after strangling them with his on two hands. He didnt know them, he didnt care about them and he didnt even think of how badly he would hurt that family of the two little girls.

If these little girls were your family..were your angry would you be? How upset? Would you be able to just "get over it" and act like it didnt happen and let the murderer roam free through the streets? What the murderer needs to do is pay for his actions. What a SINNER needs to do, is pay their wages of sins (which is death, Romans 6:23). Do you really believe in a god who thinks lying, murder, greed and so many others things are ok?

For a man to be forgiven of his mistakes, another man must die in his place. But the man who is dying for the other, must be perfect with no mistakes. None of us are perfect. So how do we save ourselves from our sin? The answer: we cant. God is merciful and He wants to save us...but He is also just and He cant let something like the murder of two little girls or anything else slide. So how does He fix this problem? He sends His one and only son who is not only the perfect human being, but also 100% God. Meaning He is not only able to die for one man, but for every man. He tooks the sins of that murder while He was on the cross and said, "God, I did those things, not him." He took MY sins and told God, "God, I hated that person, not her.
She didnt do anything." When in reality He did not do any of those things, he blames himself anyways in front of GOD. You just need to choose whether or not you accept the fact that Christ blamed himself for your mistakes and died for you. If you do accept, it will be out of gratitude that you live your life for him.

So goprarie and many others who commented: Id say that is a pretty amazing love story. Its crazy, but its only because God is crazy in love with you and He wants to be your hope and apart of your life. This love...its real. Way more real then a girl falling in "love" with a vampire named Edward and having a vampire baby, if you know what im saying. :)
So if you think you're so smart and can write it sooo much more "logically" and better than the original, be my guest. I'd love to see you try. Besides, who ever said love was logical?
"A love that defies all logic is sometimes the most logical thing in the world." -Anonymous (dont believe this quote? Google it)