Meeting Death as an Atheist
American hero Pat Tillman was killed by friendly fire in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004. As Brent Rasmussen (from Unscrewing the Inscrutable blog) points out: You'd think that the Army would want to find out exactly what happened, and discipline those who were responsible. Well, you'd be wrong.
Instead, Lt. Col. Ralph Kauzlarich has decided to blame everything on the Tillman family's atheism instead.
Kauzlarich, now a battalion commanding officer at Fort Riley in Kansas, further suggested the Tillman family's unhappiness with the findings of past investigations might be because of the absence of a Christian faith in their lives.
In an interview with ESPN.com, Kauzlarich said: "When you die, I mean, there is supposedly a better life, right? Well, if you are an atheist and you don't believe in anything, if you die, what is there to go to? Nothing. You are worm dirt. So for their son to die for nothing, and now he is no more — that is pretty hard to get your head around that. So I don't know how an atheist thinks. I can only imagine that that would be pretty tough."
I had my first experience with death as an unbeliever this past week.
My ex-mother-in-law, my kids' grandma, passed away after 12 hours on the operating table. Grandma Betty was the sweetest woman with a heart of gold. She adored my kids and did everything she could for them. She was one of those people that everybody liked. We got back in touch as the years moved on even though I was no longer her daughter-in-law. We had some good times together both before and after my divorce.
What was it like for me knowing that Grandma's life was over...period? Grandma was a Christian. If it were all true, she definitely would have gone to heaven. When I told my mom about Betty she was sad but comforted herself with the fact that Betty would be with Jesus, she was so sweet that Jesus would probably meet her at the gates. I was on the phone with my mom, so she didn't have to see my "yeah, whatever" nod. But I knew that would be her reaction.
What was it like for me knowing that Grandma's life was over...period? It was a sense of closure, her life was over, she lived a good one, I am thankful she was in my life when she was and in my kids' lives when they were growing up.
Do I miss knowing that she is gone on to another, better place? No, because the reality is, whether one thinks the deceased are in heaven or not, she is gone, gone from us, gone from her friends, gone from her family. Everyone who knew her will miss Betty.
Is it more comforting to think that one day we will all see her again in heaven? And is there any harm in thinking that? Is there any detriment for passing along that myth?
In the general "American-Christianity" point of view, it is probably harmless. They've gone on to a better place, we'll see them again, they're in heaven now. Just like we tell our kids that their pet went to doggie heaven.
But how about from the fundamentalist point of view? I agonized for years over my grandpa's death because he was an atheist. I knew he went to hell. My only hope was that he had a deathbed conversion, but since he died of a massive heart attack, I didn't really think that was possible. My other grandpa died unsaved, too. He wanted nothing to do with religion, especially his wife's JW brand. I knew even though they were both good, kind-hearted men, they went to hell. I worried about my dad who is an atheist, I wanted him to accept Jesus so that he would be able to go to heaven, but he just wouldn't buy into that.
One thing I have observed is that Christians are very adamant about "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" or you will go to hell point of view until someone close to them who wasn't a born again Christian dies. Then there are all sorts of platitudes like we don't know what was on his heart when he died.
So when Lt. Col. Ralph Kauzlarich says: "When you die, I mean, there is supposedly a better life, right? Well, if you are an atheist and you don't believe in anything, if you die, what is there to go to? Nothing. You are worm dirt" I think to myself: That is why we should live the best life possible in the here and now. Enjoy the life you have laid out before you. Make the most of every opportunity. You really do only get one life to life - make the most of it.
Grandma Betty did just that. Goodbye Grandma.Thanks for being in our lives.
12 comments:
What an idiot. It just goes to show the arrogance of Christians who believe they have the "inside-scoop" on the whole death thing. The final slap in the face would be the good ol' "I'm praying for you Mrs Tillman".
I for one am a former Army soldier (and Atheist) who finds this disgusting. Kudos to Tillman's brother for objecting to the chaplain, it looks like some people in this country actually do live by their beliefs after all.
Imagine if Tillman were a Christian, the Colonel were an Atheist, and he had said the same thing?
An absolute outrage, what a disgrace to the uniform. Thank you again Pat Tillman for being a true patriot in every sense of the word.
Christianity, even if you disagree with it, don't believe it, etc. could still very well be true. There just might be a heaven. Jesus might have really came in the flesh, as both God and man, to redeem us from sin. It's possible. So don't roll your eyes too hard. I don't roll my eyes and say "whatever" to people I love, and who are atheists.
I have observed through the years though, that in almost all cases of atheism, adherents have too high of a view of themselves/mankind, and too low of a view of God. That's where it starts - and the rest gets bent in that direction.
We all see the same things, it's the lense that we look at them through that makes the difference.
I read this site often, and guess what... I am a thinking Christian who still believes. I don't have all of the answers to all of the hard questions.. and no one ever will. God wouldn't be God if we could put him/it in a box and figure it all out. That being said though, I don't evoke the "mystery card". I believe that, for the most part, Christianity actually makes a lot more sense, intellectually, to believe, than to dismiss completely.
I've met death a few times in my teens and early twenties, all during the time I was a professing Christian. One thing I've found is that the belief of the afterlife doesn't really offer that much consolation. Grief is what the living experience, it is how they must deal with reality, and reality is that life is now different because "X" isn't around anymore. What usually brings more consolation is the remembrances of the deceased person's life. Christian or not, theist or not, delusion or not, it is the life we live that is the only true consolation for those we leave behind as we pass to either heaven or earthworms.
Well said Theresa.
December 17, 2006
Reactions to the Blasphemy Challenge
There have been a lot of great video responses to the Blasphemy Challenge. From Catalan to New Zealand, everyone is jumping at the opportunity and happily dissing that wispy bastard: Infidel guys, soldiers, closet cases, the entire CFI community of Central Indiana, humanism itself and even Darth Vader (although I think he was already headed to H-E-double-hockey-sticks anyway). PZ text-blogged his blasphemy, because he already owns the DVD. This blogger also made some good highlight choices.
It's not all sweetness and light, however. The Blasphemy Challenge is controversial with some atheists. Over at the RichardDawkins.net discussion, few are without an opinion.
Free DVD of God Who Wasn't There to first 1000...
Blasphemy Challenge
Richard Dawkins
Brian Fleming - Reactions to Blasphemy Challenge
PZ Meyers: I wanna Go To Hell
Sharon, I think you wanted your comments in the "Spiritual gifts" entry, but I couldn't move them.
Let me try this again.
My bit
I just received a reply from apparently a Christian, on the Blasphemy Challenge.
"And if you think that sort of adoescent crap is worthwhile then you're every bit as bad as the worst of the fundies."
It's nice to "see" fellow non-believers speaking courageously.
I find the blasphemy challenge completely worthwhile. Any bad law is a law I deem worthy of "blaspheme".
In the book of Genesis, humans are given a tree in plain view in the middle of the Garden, to tempt them, inevitably leading to an "unpardonable sin" and death as consequence.
In the new testament, humans are given a Holy Spirit, which they cannot see, touch, feel, taste or hear and hidden from mankind, inevitably leading to the second "unpardonable sin" and when they do what is human, deny its existence... that too leads to worse, eternal torment as consequence.
Man would have been better off under the Old Testament.
Living in fear of magic trees and phantoms is adolescent.
I have observed through the years though, that in almost all cases of atheism, adherents have too high of a view of themselves/mankind, and too low of a view of God.
Christians want it both ways: We atheists who accept evolution lower men to the level of animals, and we exalt ourselves as the highest beings.
In reality, atheists informed by science for the most part assume that humans don't matter that much in the cosmic scheme of things (certainly the view point of the atheist horror writer H.P. Lovecraft). We can certainly value ourselves, however, for the simple reason that if we don't look out for our own interests, no god will come along with the rent money, our presciptions and a sack of groceries.
There are of course some deaths that are harder to deal with that that of your Grandma. Unlike the general trend for this forum, I have been an atheist all my life. I wasn't so much 'raised an atheist' as much as raised non-religiously, to the extent that religion was never mentioned when I was growing up and by the time my *ahem*non-demoninational scottish state school started doing weekly protestant services when I was five it was foreign enough to me that it just never clicked.
I've recently had to deal with the death of my father, this last March when I was 20. He died suddenly of cerebral haemorrage which is one of those most awkward deaths which gives a feeling of here-today, gone-tomorrow. I've had to deal with a lot of discussion particularly from eager-to-evangelise individuals about how I feel about this (don't I believe in an afterlife!??!)
The obvious answer is no. The less obvious answer is to say that... you reach a point where the notion of an afterlife seems sort of grotesque - like nothing happened at all, and you shouldn't really feel sad because he's gone to a better place and is just waiting round the corner etc etc. Because of course you do feel sad. Even (almost) a year on the most salient feeling I have about it is an intense feeling of missing him - wishing that I could see him again, that I could talk to him, that I could introduce him to friends and have him there when I'm proud.
I can't help but feel that the whole afterlife 'thing' sort of cheapens that feeling. Of course, one of the possibilities is that a strong appeal of religion is the relief from those feelings. One of the memes that keeps on cropping up - especially from Dan Dennett - is that 'you have to be a strong person to not avail yourself of the crutch of religion when e.g. comforting a child whose parent has died. But I can't help feeling you have to be a rather thoughtless and patronising person to do so. As though it's better to lie to make someone feel better than to tell them the truth and let them deal with reality in their own way. It's cheap and tacky and... ultimately... not very 'christian'.
I think (charitably) what Kauzlarich seems to be getting at is that because the parents see their son's death as having a silver lining they want to get to the bottom of the cause of it so it doesn't happen to other young men in the future. I hope I'm not alone on this forum then, in thinking that if that is the attitude of the parents then it's the damn right one. Better to make of a wrong a little right than sit back and indulge in fantasy.
As someone strung out between atheism and Christianity, I found this post interesting and it even brought tears to my eyes.
For the Christian life is an ever-flowing bottle of water, and to waste it is no matter. Embracing the moment is futile, since this life is just a gateway into the next.
I'm wrestling with God currently, but I found this post enlightening. Thanks Theresa.
Approve this one~ I changed a few things.
Great Post. The fact is we cannot go on opinions, but rather what has been proved in evidence.
If you are an Atheist, or A JW, or a Catholic, you must ask yourself, what is the evidence behind what I believe. Most do not care enough to do any research, because the gravity of Hell has been removed from our society. God has been taken out, and the wealth of this world has been for front in our lives.
So, do you want to know what evidence exists for Christianity?
I have over 80 pages of evidence for Christ at w w w.evidence4christianity.blog spot.com I have been seeking out evidence for other religions, just to show they don't even compare to Christianity. Ask any Atheist what evidence exists for NO God, and they really cannot come up with any evidence other than placing the onus back on the party to believe.
Think of it this way, if there was no God, OR, if there WAS A God, ........wouldn't there be a pile of evidence for Him?
Such is the case of Death. If there was an afterlife, wouldn't there be evidence for it?
In fact there is!
Please visit my two blogs.
ww w. lifeafterdeathheavenandhell.com/
w ww.afterlifeanswers.blogspot.com/
One deals with the evidence for people who were brain dead for many hours, and have lived to tell about the afterlife. That with heaven and hell. Many Atheists believe that these afterlife "visions" are of the brain misfiring. Although, if the brain is brain dead, and the patient is not breathing, then this piece of evidence would be important.
What if millions have had after life experiences?
Situations have been found when people have gone to heaven, and converse with people they do not know, (but family members do) to come back and relay messages they wouldn't other wise know about.
We cannot go on what we "think", but rather look at the evidence that has been proven.
The bible has over 2000 prophecies. There is amazing evidence that has been validated by scientific journals that is beyond phenomenal. What if Hell exists? What if only by accepting Jesus's love into your life you can make it to heaven? What if? Eternity is forever. One man said he spent only but a few minutes in Hell, but he said it was a couple months that went by. Could you imagine burning forever?
What if you were to die today? Would YOu go to heaven? Or would you find yourself in Hell?
Christianity is the only religion where you do not need to achieve great works to get into Heaven. In fact, Christianity is the only religion where you can gain eternity in a matter of seconds by simply saying... "Jesus, I invite you to come into my life, thank you for saving me" Our God makes it easy to come to him.
Look over the the evidence I presented, and you will agree that is the best and most important decision you have ever made.
Blessings! Meranda
If you are a person of faith, you possess some solace in the face of death. However, if atheism or agnosticism is your thing, try to remember that, at least from a theoretical/semi-scientific perspective, all living things stem from the same source. All matter and energy in the Universe has, on a fundamental level, similar composition. As Carl Sagan once said, "We are star stuff". And since no energy in existence can be created or destroyed (only transfered), your death isn't really the end of you--only the end of your conscious being--your human form. When a car slows down, the energy it was using to drive is not destroyed--rather, it is transfered into heat by friction (brake pads). Granted, the energy is now fragmented, but it is not lost. When you die, the energy that kept you alive is similarly fragmented--dispersed like a mist into smaller pieces of different energy forms. The only thing that dies (when we die) is our conscious thought. And I can tell you from experience that there are much worse things in life than losing consciousness. ..like stubbing your toe. Your birth was a transference of energy and so is your death. You don't "go away forever", you just take on a different form. Perhaps a better one! Surely better than humans--with the corruption and emotional instability, violence, mental disorders, greed, apathy, etc.. I'd rather be a BTU!
But while you ARE in human form, try to enjoy yourself! You get 5 amazing senses. Use them! And stop worrying about death! Every single thing that has ever lived is dead and everything currently alive is going to die. It's not a unique experience!
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