Minister Sentenced for Sexually Abusing Women
Along with Catholic molester priests there are a whole host of evangelical ministers and pastors who abuse people sexually. Just recently one was sentenced to prison for this. See here. What do you Christians makes of this? Ministers commit adultery, molest children, sexually abuse women, pilfer money from the church, and so on. Pastors are supposed to be the best examples of Christianity, but they don't seem any better than any other Christians. Why is this? Where is the power of the Holy Spirit in their lives? Why is it that Christianity is the only religion that claims a creator God (via the Holy Spirit) takes up "residence" in the life of the believer but it doesn't produce people who act any better than anyone else, especially its pastors?
11 comments:
This is a good question, John. So many times you hear that ministers are just people and that we all are fallen, etc. But this questions is a challenge. I would love to hear responses from Christians on this one. I posted your question on my site, too. If I get any answers I'll share.
I think this could be another illustration of one of those wierd things about christianity - When something good happens, god did it; when something bad happens, it is because of man.
If people say that this pastor has 'fallen,' it would be an example of this.
Take your pick:
1. Not a real Christian.
2. Satan
3. God has a reason when bad things happen to good people. Although these women have been abused (which is bad), they will tell their stories to others and thus prevent others from suffering the same fate (which is good).
4. God works in mysterious ways. Although we mere humans can not understand God's plan for us, rest assured that these women suffered for a greater cause.
5. God gives us free will to do evil (even though God seems to know what we will do before we do it and besides, he could stop it from happening if he really wanted to).
6. This is what happens when you remove religion from the public sphere (government, education, etc...). If we could get back to traditional Christian values then things like this would never happen because they never ever happened when we could force kids to pray in school, put the ten commandments in court houses and "the gays" stayed in the closet (oh yeah, Jim Crow laws and the KKK too).
7. God is testing this woman's faith just like he tested Abraham. Unfortunately, God forgot to stop the test before it went too far (or maybe he just fell asleep?)
Yepper Bruce, Christians have an explanation for everything! Once they believe in God then God can explain it all. Conveinient, eh?
Hey, but maybe the best explanation is that there is no God and there is no Holy Spirit to help Christians be better people than the general populace?
Naw....couldn't be.
I'd say Christianity does produce people who act better.
You're going to have a tough time proving that one.
If unusually charitable people called Christians aren't convincing enough in favor of Christianity, maybe despicable people called Christians aren't convincing enough in rejection of Christianity.
Likewise with any other religion, or atheism.
The problem is that Christianity claims the moral high road. Thus, it better be able to produce "better" people or it can't make that claim. You say Christianity produces people who act better. My perception is that there is no difference. There are the same amount of charitable people in all religious persuasions and non-believers as well. That's why the charitable one's aren't convincing enough, because they don't stand out. Most people are good most of the time.
Bad people stand out because they aren't the norm. But if Christianity produces better people, there should be even fewer "bad" Christians than the rest of us. But this just isn't the case. The vast majority of people consider themselves Christian in this country and they are the same majority of people who are doing the bad things. Thus, you can take your pick from one of my seven excuses above to explain why this is the case.
Not sure if you know this, but a Christian radio show (www.unchainedradio.com) was making fun of you...for the entire episode.
They had a fake atheist who was their guest, and they came up with stupid arguments and the fake guest kept saying that he loves John Loftus, or as he said "the lofty lone". I thought I would just let you know, and the host of the christian show is Gene Cook. It is a terrible show, and they are a bunch of assholes.
dark, yes I know, and I heard it. Gene Cook knew the guy was being disengenuous, which undercuts the credibility of his show. This is yet another example that Christians don't act any better than the general populace. They can justify lying on a Christian show.
Mike, fine then, if you don't see anything immoral about it, then it's illegal. Regardelss, it is hypocritical for this minister to do this, right?...on the basis of his own beliefs.
Mike,
Your "ultimate measure" is still quite subjective, and demonstrates an inherently-relative morality. Compare, for simplicity's sake, the relative moral commands of Leviticus and Deuteronomy for how to treat our "neighbors" with those of Jesus (borrowed from Confuscius and Epicurus).
What about adultery, it is not illegal but is it immoral? If you say yes, then what do you base your morality on?
Each person bases their morals on certain values. You value what the Bible says. I value how actions and behaviors affect myself and others. If an action or behavior has the capacity to bring about harm, physically, mentally, or emotionally, then it ought to be shunned. Those actions which lack this feature, and give us health, wealth, and happiness are those which I attempt to stick to.
It's not so hard.
If you aren't aware, human beings had extra-biblical ethical systems for many centuries before this book existed that you think morality is contingent upon.
PS: Mike, please find for me where it says in the Bible that having sex with a woman against her will is immoral. Contrariwise, you want to look at these verses where it is obvious that women were taken as wives/slaves/concubines against their will, and usually after their entire families were slaughtered.
Nice moral standard you have there.
I was just about to point that out myself Daniel. This is the primary reason I reject Christianity and all other religions - being a female, I find it offensive to my sensibilities.
I've never seen that site before, but rest assured, there are many more examples than these.
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