My wife and I visited Reno, Nevada, recently, along with Donner Memorial State Park, which marks the campsite of many members of the Donner Party. The Donner Party got stranded one winter in the mountains due to heavy snowfall. This is a picture of the rock that was used as a western wall and fireplace for the Murphy Cabin. It was really interesting standing there where many people died, and where some people ate the flesh of others just to stay alive. What a horrific winter it must have been.
It's also interesting to read Patrick Breen's diary. Here's an entry from it on December 31, 1846: "Last of the year. May we, with God's help, spend the coming year better than the past, which we purpose to do if Almighty God will deliver us from our present dreadful situation, which is our prayer if the will of God sees it fitting for us. Amen." Another entry January 19, 1847: "Clear & pleasant. Thawing a little in the sun. Wind S.W. Peggy & Edward sick last night by eating some meat that Dolan threw his tobacco on; pretty well to day (praise God for his blessings)."
Of the 81 people trapped in the mountains, 36 died and 45 survived. Since most of these people were Christians I wonder why God didn't answer their prayers, or answered so very little of what they needed. I cannot envision a good mother not doing so, can you?
August 31, 2007
A Good God Doesn't Exist
August 30, 2007
August 29, 2007
Are You 100% Sure God Exists?
August 28, 2007
My Self-Published Book Will No Longer Be Available
My self-published book is being phased out. When Amazon has sold its copies the book will no longer be available. Prometheus Books has picked it up and will be available toward the end of February '08. You can order it now at a price that is about half what it'll be when it comes out. But there will be a time lag of about five months where you cannot get it. I just want my readers to be aware of this in case anyone was thinking about getting it soon. I also want to make a challenge no one yet has met....
I have had about five or more people email me claiming they were going to get my book and dismantle it page by page. One said he was planning on reading most of the books I refer to in mine in order to show me how wrong I am, book by book. Another said he was going to produce a website debunking my book. A couple of others have said they were going to email me their responses page by page. But one after another of these critics simply dropped off the map. Those who started emailing me about my book simply vanished after a few emails. The others I haven't heard from in months. What gives? I have no explanation for this. Maybe they thought my book was so lame it wasn't worth the effort? Maybe they couldn't understand what I wrote? Maybe other more important things crowded out their time? But then maybe what happened is they simply gave up?
Anyway, I challenge someone to try this with my book. I might learn a few things, and that's always a goal of mine. Pick it up and deal with as many arguments in it that you can. Deal with them all if you can. If it causes you to lose your faith (unlikely) then you can thank me, since it means your faith was delusional to begin with. If it strengthens your faith then you can also thank me for challenging you to think a little deeper about these issues. So either way you will be rewarded. And if that's the case you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Here are some of the positive recommendations about it:
Dr. James F. Sennett, Christian philosopher and author of Modality, Probability, and Rationality: A Critical Examination of Alvin Plantinga's Philosophy, and This Much I Know: A Post-Modern Apologetic (unpublished book): "For years I have been saying that Christian apologetics is answering questions no one is asking. Scholarly unbelief is far more sophisticated, far more defensible than any of us would like to believe. John W. Loftus is a scholar and a former Christian who was overwhelmed by that sophistication and damaged irreparably by the inadequate apologetics he had at his disposal. His story is a wake up call to the church: it's time for us to start living in, and speaking to, the real world."
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Dr. Norman L. Geisler, author The Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics: "First [John’s book] is an honest and open account of how a Christian became an atheist. Seldom are unbelievers so candid and open. Second, every Christian--let alone Christian apologist--can learn some valuable lessons from it on how to treat wayward believers. Third, it is a thoughtful and intellectually challenging work, presenting arguments that every honest theist and Christian should face. Indeed, some of his criticisms are valid."
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Dan Barker, author of Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist: "As a former fundamentalist minister who has followed a similar path from apostle to apostate, I empathize completely with the deep struggle Loftus had to make in order to shed his former cherished beliefs. I respect his scholarship, but more than that, I admire his courage. There are many treasures in this book, as well as provocative and controversial arguments, all presented with a crystal-clear and brutal honesty that is rare in religious scholarship. Loftus is a true freethinker, willing to follow the facts wherever they happen to lead."
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David Van Allen, webmaster of www.ex-christian.com: "This book is an absolute 'must have' for anyone who has left the Christian faith or is having serious intellectual doubts about the Christian religion. While the book starts out explaining some of his experiential reasons for leaving Christianity, the volume goes far beyond a mere personal testimony and dives deeply into the elemental contradictions of Christianity. The plethora of scholarly works referenced in this publication places it amongst the better resources for the honest student. To do the volume justice one must be willing to follow the research that has been carefully documented by Loftus. For those without the time or interest to explore the mountain of references, this book will, none-the-less, provide a significant store for future study when time or necessity dictates. Loftus deals evenly with the issues, carefully explaining the strengths and weaknesses of each argument. Loftus' coverage of the problems inherent in the claims of Christianity is comprehensive. Much of what he wrote sounds like an echo of many of my own introspections except expressed through the well oiled mind of an academia. Loftus does not come away from Christianity with the deep bitterness that affects many in de-conversion, but rather retains admiration for the good influence Christianity had on his own youth. If you are an honest seeker, or an honest doubter; if you truly believe, or truly doubt; I highly recommend you add this book to your collection."
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Richard Carrier, author of Sense and Goodness Without God, said this about The Outsider Test for Faith chapter: "that's an excellent chapter. The logic of it is insurmountable, in my opinion, even by a so-called reformed or 'holy spirit' epistemologist."
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Matthew J. Green: “It's not everyday that I get to befriend a fellow apostate and freethinker who left the Christian faith but also one who has a sharp theological mind such as John W. Loftus. A divinity school graduate with three master’s degrees, a former student of William Lane Craig, and an academic star in his school days, Loftus has a formidable resume. That's why I was eager to purchase and read Loftus' book Why I Rejected Christianity. This book is one of the best introductory texts on the philosophical problems with Christianity.”
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Christopher Hallquist, president of Atheists, Humanists, and Agnostics at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and blog owner of http://uncrediblehallq.blogspot.com: “Where I'm not familiar with the material, I have found Loftus' book quite helpful. I also have no trouble saying the section on the problem of evil was top-notch. Loftus' extensive use and citation of existing material makes this an excellent guide to the literature for anyone who wants to do further reading."
There are also a few real gems originality thrown in there. The best section, though, is at the beginning, in a section called The Outsider Test: "Test your beliefs as if you were an outsider to the faith you are evaluating." Here, Loftus solidifies an idea that has floated around in much skeptical rhetoric for some time. He opens up the possibility of consistently applying an idea that has so far only been applied haphazardly. When this is done, the effect is utterly devastating to religious belief. The Outsider Test should earn Loftus a permanent place in the history of critiques of religion."
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Joe E. Holman, founder of www.ministerturnsatheist.org, and author of Project Bible Truth: What Your Church Doesn't Want You To Know (Forthcoming): "With excellent scholarship and thorough detail, Loftus powerfully and systematically dismantles the Christian religion, refuting long held arguments of apologists, laying to waste sacred and traditional beliefs of the faith."
"The book's central strength lies in its information-rich content. In truth, a person could spend quite a long time following up on John's sources and recommended reading materials. There is a tremendous well of knowledge here. The work is chock-full of great information with one major theme underlying it all; the supporting "facts," the cardinal pillars of Christianity, cannot be rescued from unrelenting, submerging doubt--even if one happens to find belief in Christianity viable. Cause for serious skepticism is everywhere lurking. The major tenants of Christianity, the "core doctrines" at the heart of the faith, are shaky at best and vulnerable to attack from all sides of debate. John speaks the language of competent and well-known Christian scholars and apologists of both liberal and conservative affiliation, employing their own words against them, demonstrating that they themselves recognize the grave position they are in when facing the critical eye of a skeptical, modern world."
"I see this book being of exceptional value to college students, philosophy buffs, and particularly those who are "on the fence," actively struggling with an open mind to objectively beat their doubts about the validity of Christianity. I also see it serving as an ideal study-guide for someone looking to get in touch with other excellent works on the nature of the Christian religion. John's scholarship is solid, drawing from a host of proponents and critics in a wide range of disciplines, including history, philosophy, and theology. Loftus is very well read. Any doubts about that will quickly disappear upon reading the book."
"The Outsider Test for Faith is one of those chapters that says what every doubter of religion has always thought but perhaps never said so well. The chapter is an absolute jewel, an extended take on the old realization that "If you lived in Iraq, you'd be a Muslim." John did a masterful job at making application of this truth.
In addition to possessing some very fine chapters this work covers some ground that is seldom touched on in other comparable freethought works."
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Chris Knight-Griffin:
"If you have questions about your faith, read this book. Those nagging questions are addressed and exposed. Every skeptic should have this concise reference book on the desk, dog-eared, tagged, and highlighted. I’ve read Sam Harris' book, The End of Faith, and Richard Dawkins' book, The God Delusion. I've read numerous books on the subject but John’s book was what I was looking for. The other books hit the target but John’s book hits the bulls-eye. I doubt anyone with faith could walk away from this book with that faith intact."
"This book is a reference tool with sources documented well beyond most books in this field. Literally hundreds of sources are quoted throughout and it is amazing that someone could sift through that much material into a succinct, scholarly and easy to read work. Awesome book!!!! It is honestly everything I've been looking for so far in my ‘quest’ for knowledge. Thank you!"
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Harry Noetzel, Ph.D: “I find John’s book a well balanced, honest and succinct examination of orthodox Christian beliefs that I would highly recommend to anyone seeking the understanding of the foundations of Christianity.”
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Greg Meeuwsen: "I have read numerous publications on this topic, but I don't believe I've ever seen as many great reasons to reject religion in one place. John’s arguments are numerous and rock-solid. The book reads without even a hint of condescending tone towards his former faith. It is obvious that the man is simply sincere, and he resorts to no personal attacks on any level. This is more than can be said of most current atheist authors. The level of research and brutal logic applied to the Bible is absolutely stunning, as is the sheer number of examples given. There is "no stone unturned", as Loftus takes on nearly every apologist angle ever conceived. This book will give more insight into scholarly unbelief than you ever thought possible."
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Paul Harrison: "If you read Christian apologetics, you owe it to yourself to have this anthology of the best arguments against Christian apologetics in your library."
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Valerie Tarico: "What is unusual about Loftus is his breadth and depth of research in defense of the Christian faith before finally rejecting his faith. Loftus applies himself in this book with the same intellectual rigor he had applied to defending the faith, and effectively dissects those very same arguments. I found myself marveling at the impressively contorted reasoning used by apologists through the ages in defense their received traditions. Arguments on behalf of the “self-authenticating witness of the Holy Spirit” and the incarnation are extraordinary in this regard. These arguments are testimony to the power of the human mind when we are determined to make the evidence fit a preconceived story line---or when we are determined to hold an appealing belief despite being backed into an evidentiary corner. They are worth reading from the standpoint of cognitive psychology alone. It is thoroughly referenced, and quotes extensively from scholars on many sides. His encyclopedic knowledge speaks for itself."
August 27, 2007
Will Ex-Christians Like Us Be in Heaven?
I received an email from a good Christian friend of mine who attended a church I preached at. She thinks I'll eventually be in heaven! Isn't she nice!? Any other Christian think this way? Here's what she wrote: John...I find it so interesting that you have turned such a 180 degree around on your belief in God or who He is..You don't have to carry on this persona with me. I know deep down you know God is a loving God...but now that you have strayed away from him..you would have to eat crow to change your mind ..let alone that you are now married to an Atheist.
It does amaze me also that you do not see that you have been deceived of the truth by Satan himself. You know what he has done to you is very typical of how he operates and how you let your guard down to turn away for God. After all..we all know that the Christian life is very hard..it is the hard path. You have now chosen the easy way to deal.
I do believe in "Once saved aways saved" and although I know you are grieving God's very heart by your actions...and will suffer those consequences...I will see you on the other side someday.
Malevolent Design

August 26, 2007
Penal Substitution Theory of the Atonement and the Justice of God
The centerpiece of Christian theology is the atonement. Various theories of the atonement have been put forth by theologians throughout Church History but the dominant one in evangelical circles is the Penal Substitution Theory. To emphasize this point, John MacArthur states
The doctrine Anselm articulated, known as the penal substitution theory of the atonement, has long been considered an essential aspect of all doctrine that is truly evangelical. Historically, all who have abandoned this view have led movements away from evangelicalism.
http://www.ondoctrine.com/2mac0103.htm
In simple terms, the penal substiutionary view states that Christ suffered the penalty for sin in man's place by dying on the cross. His death satisfies the holy wrath of God against sin and allows God to justly forgive sinners. This view seems at its root to be unjust. How can it be considered justice for an innocent party to suffer the penalty due a guilty party? This seems to run contrary to the basic idea of justice; yet we are told that it is precisely because of God's unswervable justice that the death of Christ was necessary.
Some will argue that Jesus died voluntarily, therefore it is just. That misses the point. I am talking about the justice of punishing the innocent for the guilty. A person could volunteer today to be executed in place of a death row inmate but that would not be allowed because it would not satisfy the basic essence of justice which is that the person who commits the crime is the one who must be punished.
August 22, 2007
The Natural History of The Bible

This article is based on a compilation of my notes of Dr. Daniel Hillel's "Science and the City" lecture from his book "The Natural History of the Bible". Knowing the history of the Near East and its Semitic Tribes are essential to understanding the Bible. Daniel Hillel is professor emeritus of environmental studies, University of Massachusetts, and senior research scientist, Center for Climate Systems Research, Columbia University. In his book the "Natural History of the Bible" he discusses the ancients of the Near East, how the Israelites came about and shows how their environment shaped their folklore and their beliefs.
Dr. Hillel divides the Near East region up into different environmental domains, the Riverine Domain, the Pastoral Domain, the Desert Domain, the Rainfed Domain, the Maritime Domain, the Urban Domain, the Exile Domain. After the last ice age (Pleistocene period) in the neolithic revolution, the Fertile Crescent developed. Over time people settled there and began to work the land. As they worked the land they domesticated plants and animals and began to adopt a sedentary mode of life as farmers. They were polytheists. They created societies and cultures based on their environment (domain) and they imagined that the forces for which they had no control, were controlled by gods. They deified the elements of the environment in order to try to have some influence over them. They prayed to them, tried to please and placate them. The god of rain was Baal and to this day rain-fed farming has retained its traditional name of Baal farming. The earth was depicted as a reclining fertile woman, identified as Ashera, Ashtarte or Tanit etc. They imagined the processes of fertility as sexual mating between the sky god and the earth god, the sky god sending his rain into mother earth. The reddish soil they called adamma (earth). The first man was born out of the soil and he was called Adam.
Life in the pastoral domain centered around the well. Where the maiden would go to draw water and bring it to the flocks and to the home. The bible is full of stories of meetings around the well. Abraham's servant Eleazar met Rebbecca, Jacob met Rachel and Moses met daughters of the priest of Midian Jethro. They were primarily tending cattle so they worshiped animal gods, the calf, the bull, the ram, etc.
People in the desert engaged in hunting and worshiped what they found in the desert. The lizard, scorpion, whispering snake, sun, moon and mysterious spirits that lurked in the caves in the mountains. Moses used the snake cast out of copper. The word for copper is the same or similar as the one for snake. He used the snake symbol to cure the people afflicted in the desert. The symbol was used until it was purged by King Hezekiah, but today the medical profession still uses the snake as their symbol.
One of the Riverine domains consisted of the five tributaries of the Indus river. They realized that they could divert waters, take the seeds from the rain fed domain and control agriculture better. They did not need to depend on rain. They worked around the floods. Southern Mesopotamia, the most organized civilization, to survive needed to control the water and agriculture. It was in the center of four rivers. This was a "Garden of Eden". It contained "gardens" of delightful fruit trees. This is where the Enuma Elish was created. Marduk fought the evil goddess of the brine lurking beneath the soil and split her body and created the arc of the heaven, the canopy of the firmament and the earth. There is a stone with an engraving of the King Hammurabi receiving the code of law from the sun god Shamash. It is interesting to compare it to the story of moses, and the mosaic code of law. In this area the Ziggurats were built. They make an appearance in the bible as the Tower of Babel.
The rivers meandering around the plane break through their banks and flood uncontrollably from time to time. Hence the story of the the Flood. The people of southern Mesopotamia started a destructive process that caused the water table to rise and caused the destruction of their civilization. The salt bearing water underneath rose and the process of evaporation of the water increased the concentration of salt in the soil and ruined the land. In contrast, in another riverine domain, the rivers of the Nile flooded every summer bringing silt from other parts of the land renewing the soil along the Nile keeping it fertile. It was an automatic process of fertilization and irrigation which made that civilization stable for 5-6000 years.
Those people had no idea where the rivers came from. The further upstream they went the more terrible the conditions became so they gave up and they believed the river emanated miraculously from Hopi the riverine god, bringing bounty to Egypt. Compare this to the idea of turning the Nile river to blood and of the Holy Spirit as a river.
The Old Testament, also known as the Hebrew Bible, have similarities with Egyptian culture. Findings in Egypt are similar to the Old Testament. There is a story where an Egyptian god makes a man out of clay and the custom of circumcision (also referred to as Genital Mutilation) seems to have originated there. There are drawings of Semitic tribes depicting pastoralists that tried to immigrate into riverine Egypt during periods of drought, begging to be accepted, making bricks by mixing mud and straw and the scourging of slaves by slave masters etc. Gerald Massey a poet, scholar and amateur archaeologist talks more about this in his books on the subject of Egypt.
Wall carving were found describing sea battles with 'sea peoples' these were people from Eastern Mediterranean, Sardinia, Corsica, Sicily, Cyprus, and Crete. They roamed over the sea like the Vikings which followed thousands of years later. They settled on the southern coast of Canaan and became the philistines.
The people of Lebanon became fishermen and farmers of cedar. They engaged in trade, learned to make glass, extract a dye from snails which reminded the Greeks of the legendary Phoenix so the Greeks called those people the Phoenicians. The land of Canaan became the land of Israel. Its principle source of water was the Jordan river. Micro and Macro climates exist in the hills. The south sides are barren and north sides are vegetated. The wells were dug into the water tables. There was a discovery 50 years ago. A depiction made by the Israelites showing the God Yahweh and his consort Asherah. Before adopting Yahweh as the only god, he had a consort that played the traditional role of the feminine. There was a triune of the male god, the female earth, and the child as crops.
In each of the domains the people developed a distinctive culture, but the bible tells us that a single unique group of people traversed each of the domains. This group absorbed elements of each culture and this experience enabled them to see the overarching unity of nature, which gave them a comprehensive view of nature and thereby its creator.
In Jerusalem, in trying to unite the squabbling tribes of Israel, King David conquered the Jebusites and founded a capital to elicit the loyalty of the people and unite them to defend against the invading forces of the Egyptians, Babylonians, Assyrians, Greeks, Romans and Persians that came around time to time in that little sliver of land that is the intersection of Africa, Asia and Europe. To unite the people the King needed to administer them effectively. He needed a strong faith and initiated the construction of the holy temple. They formalized their religion. The temple mount had a perennial source of water and was the reason why Jerusalem was located there. Before people learned to build cisterns they depended on streams. In times of siege, king Hezekiah ordered the stream to be diverted into the city. The town dump was where the outcasts were made to live and became known as Gehenna, which later came to mean purgatory or hell.
From time to time the land of Israel was overwhelmed by armies. Drawings depict Egyptians attacking the walls of the city. It shows the Israelite defenders beseeching their god and burning incense and sacrificing children in order to ward off the invaders. There exist depictions of the Judean King of Northern Israel King bowing down to Assyrian invaders after being defeated. Two or three generations later Jerusalem succumbed and were led into captivity into Babylonia. There, the Israelites had spiritual leaders that collected, collated, edited and unified scripture to create a 'portable temple' on parchment (the word) giving the unique and revolutionary idea that god was not associated with a region or a land, but with a people. It was stronger than a temple of stone and it focused the peoples loyalty and raised their hopes and faith. When the Persian king conquered Babylonia, he let the people of Judea return bearing what came to be know as their Torah.
The scriptures were a sort of private diary of the people as they wandered across all the domains of the near east and tried to settle in that vulnerable sliver of land as a small vulnerable community, vulnerable to nature and invaders. It was the intersections of continents. The land was marginal and was always being conquered. They had no one to depend on but their God. He would manipulate chance to their advantage because he loved them so much. Paganism preceded monotheism. For example, they believed that the nephilim, the sons of the gods, came to earth to mate with human women who had children that became the Heroes of old. But because they were always vulnerable, the Israelites chose to have Yahweh, the warrior god whom they needed as protector, to be their only God. They were always looking to please him. But even this monotheism was not a unique idea since an Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaten (Amenhotep IV, 1364-1347 B.C.), had done the same thing earlier. But this religion survived and out of it branched Christianity and Islam.
References related to The Natural History of The Bible
Columbia University website featuring Hillel's book "The Natural History of the Bible"
Lopate interview with Hillel
Science and the city web page
and you can download or listen to the audio here
- Neolithic Revolution
- Fertile Crescent
- Wisconsin Glaciation
- Post flood ice age, no mention of it in the bible. This is a link to how "Answersingenesis.org" handles it.
Beyond Mesopotamia: A New View Of The Dawn Of Civilization
References for more information on the Bible as Folklore.
- My DC Article "The Bible As Truth?" which includes links to more data.
- Callahan, Tim. 2002. Secret Origins of The Bible. California. Millennium Press.
- Davis, Kenneth C. 2006. Don't Know Much About Mythology: Everything You Need to Know About the Greatest Stories in Human History but Never Learned. New York. Harper.
- Dundes, Alan. Holy Writ as Oral Lit: The Bible as Folklore. Lanham, Maryland. Rowman & Littlefield Publishers.
- Finkelstein, Israel and Silberman, Neil Asher. 2002. The Bible Unearthed. New York. Simon and Schuster Free Press
- Frazer, James George. 1975. Folklore in the Old Testament. New York. Hart Publishing
- Friedman, Richard Elliot. 2003. The Bible With Sources Revealed. 2003. New York. HarperCollins.
- Helms, Randel. 1988. Gospel Fictions. Amherst, New York. Prometheus Books.
- Massey, Gerald. 1992. The Historical Jesus and the Mythical Christ. Brookly, New York. A & B Book Dist Inc.
- Matthews, Victor H. and Benjamin, Don C. 1997. Old Testament Parallels: Laws and Stories from that Ancient Near East. New Jersey. Paulist Press.
- Smith, Mark S. 2002. The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel. Dearborn, Michigan. William B. Eerdmans Publishing.
August 17, 2007
August 16, 2007
The Phenomenal Language Argument And the Creation Accounts
I'll be gone for a week and a half, so this will be my last post until I get back. Let me leave you with something good to talk about:
Christians will argue that God described his creation of the world to the Biblical writers in “the phenomenal language of their day,” given that we still talk about the “sun rising,” and so forth. But it’s more likely that the Bible merely reflects ancient views of cosmology based upon a mythic non-historical consciousness. To see what the Hebrews believed about the universe see here.
Isn’t it crystal clear God could’ve described the universe differently in order to teach human beings about the vastness and age of the universe? Why didn’t the author of the first Creation account in Genesis start out by saying: "In the beginning God created an immeasurable universe of billions of stars, some of which are billions and billions of miles (cubits) away, through a process that took billions of years out of which he finally created the sun, moon, and a spherical earth which revolves around the sun. On it he created water, land, the beasts of the sea, and eventually every living thing on it. Finally he created human beings to rule over everything he created."
I just don't see why God didn’t reveal this, if he exists, or why ancient people couldn't have had a good grasp of what he said. It certainly would be easily understood, and would not later be undermined by the findings of modern astronomy. By stating that the earth was spherical or that it went around the Sun would’ve done wonders for Biblical credibility with the dawn of modern science, since it would predate what science would later discover.
Apologists will argue that ancient cosmological beliefs were not important for God to correct; since all he wanted to do was to let humans to know that it was HE who created it. But when we reflect on the Galileo affair and the irreparable harm it did to the Christian faith once astronomers understood the vastness and age of the universe, one can only shake her head in utter amazement God didn’t foresee that because he didn’t reveal this, it would lead many of us to doubt the Bible. I am an atheist because this very problem started me down the road of doubt. Does God really not care about the fact he didn't tell human beings the truth about the universe? By not doing so, God has produced many unbelievers who don’t see any true divine revelation in the Bible!
Apologists will object that if God had revealed this to the ancient world it would’ve been laughed at by the ancients who knew differently, just like Socrates was laughed at in Aristophanes’ play called, The Clouds, for suggesting rain came from the clouds rather than from the sky itself. Several things can be said about this objection.
In the first place, if God had directly revealed this to Adam and Eve then all humanity would’ve accepted what God revealed. It would be the consensus opinion which would require evidence to prove differently. Secondly, if God actually did the many miracles claimed in the Bible, they would be considered strong evidence to believe what he said about the universe as well. Thirdly, God could also have provided Adam and Eve with the knowledge to confirm what he said by telling them how to make a telescope, for instance. Fourthly, if God had revealed the truth about the universe then human beings, especially believers, would find ways to confirm what he said, just like believers today try to confirm the stories in the Bible. So revealing this would also speed up what we know about the universe, and since it predated our discoveries, it would be strong evidence that the God of the Bible exists. Lastly, we must place this lack of divine foresight in the context of other things God could’ve revealed, but didn’t. He could’ve revealed to us how to discover penicillin; but didn’t. He could’ve unambiguously condemned slavery; but he didn’t. He could’ve condemned honor killings, witch burnings, and Inquisitions, but he didn’t. In fact, the Bible does not contain one single statement that could not have been written by a person living in that time period. The best explanation for this is that the God of the Bible doesn’t exist.
August 15, 2007
Victor J. Stenger v. Hugh Ross
Victor J. Stenger discusses his bestselling book God: The Failed Hypothesis with creationist Hugh Ross here, in two parts.
August 14, 2007
Christian McDumb Defends Creationism
Christian McDumb, attorney at law, may seem like just another dime-a-dozen litigation lawyer from the South, but he’s much, much more! Author of “One billion and one reasons why Archaeopteryx is just a bird and Lucy is just an ape,” “The Face of Jesus on Mars,” and “The Verdict Is In: T-rex was on the ark,” McDumb holds a “BS” degree in precisely that. He is making waves in the world today. As a proud defender of the Intelligent Design Movement (a.k.a. creationism), he donates his time and abilities to skillfully bootlegging his Lord Jesus Christ into the classrooms of America through the court systems of our land.
McDumb’s greatest joys are when states like Kansas (which happens to be his favorite state) accept creationism, and when science textbooks have disclaimers put in them that deride evolution and science. McDumb boldly writes “scientific” pamphlets that use big, scientific-sounding words, like “probability,” “hypothesis,” “postulate,” and “irreducible complexity,” and he is always careful to leave the word “God” out of these pamphlets so that they have a better chance of being seen as scientific by an infidel judge.
McDumb was crushed, devastated in fact, when the ID movement suffered a great setback in Dover, Pennsylvania in 2005. He and his best friend Pat Robertson didn’t know what to do with themselves when that dark, dark day came over our nation. Handkerchiefs in hand, they stood united and strong, pronouncing God’s judgment on the wicked city of Dover. And McDumb keeps on fighting the good fight. He is stubborn and has a gift from God for not knowing when to quit.
He is a smooth operator. He says things like, “Teach your children they come from monkeys and they will act like monkeys.” He makes arguments against evolution, like, “If evolution is true, why are monkeys still around today?” He understands perfectly well that evolution must be fought, for if not combated, it will lead to homosexuality, the most heinous and blasphemous sin in the eyes of all his friends—churchgoing Republicans over the age of 45.
When McDumb gets wound up, it’s hard to slow him down. He’s a sharp cookie, making powerful arguments in debate. Atheists run from him like Mercedes-driving sophomores from Virginia Tech. He tells them: “You haven’t found the missing link yet!” Then he asks tough questions like, “What good is half an eye?” McDumb knows his stuff, especially about halves and monkey-men. “Show me an ape/man, Mr. Evolutionist! You can’t, can you?” He knows that if evolution were true, there would be half-ape/half-men everywhere…and also half-mosquitoes/half-elephants, half-crocodiles/half-zebras, and half-gnats/half-brontosauruses. This subject is deep for McDumb and it took him the better part of a year to struggle through the issue of why there isn’t a half-broccoli/half-pregnant woman, but I suppose that’s another matter. So the next time you DON’T see a half-mollusk/half-eagle, you’ll know why! It’s because God created everything in wholes. If the cosmos had evolved, there’d be halves of every combination of things in the universe!
McDumb is open-minded too, just as he is intellectually keen; he goes before a judge and argues passionately that ID is not about God or religion in any way, and then he stresses that the designer of the universe could have been anything…but not an alien race or any non-eternal entity because that only begs the question of who created them, so he’s right back to assigning God as the creator! So McDumb is trying to get God into the classrooms, even though he says he’s not but is only trying to teach an alternative scientific theory!
Now McDumb says he’s open-minded, but he can’t be too open-minded; he tells the judges and the large audiences he addresses that he just wants all sides of the debate to be heard, that he wants more information put out there so that everyone can make an informed decision about their origins, but when asked if he’d like Astrology to be taught in schools alongside Astronomy, he declined because that doesn’t agree with his beliefs.
Well, OK, so maybe McDumb isn’t always fair or consistent, but God loves the McDumbs of this world—the McDummies, as they are called. McDummies are not ashamed to defend The Nazarene through devious means. They are good soldiers for Jesus. They’ll tread right into the heart of enemy territory to bring victory for the Lord, so they really don’t care if anyone likes them or not, especially non-churchgoing scientists in white coats with real degrees.
As for McDumb, he will persevere. The spirit of Michael Behe carries him on. He sleeps with a copy of Darwin’s Black Box under his pillow at night. McDumb’s other heroes, Sean Hannity and Michael Medved, pave the way for him. What would Jesus do without the McDummies of this world?
(JH)
Is God Primarily a King or a Father...or Both?
Is God a father, a king, or a fatherly king? Setting aside the fact that the image of God as a king is antequated among today's democratic loving people, let's say he's a fatherly king (since both images are to be found in the Bible). Okay? Then there are at least three views about God's relationship to his creatures:
Is he 1) a king to everyone but a father only to the elect; 2) a father to everyone but a king only to the elect; or 3) both a king and a father to everyone?
Let's look at these images and see if we can make sense of any of them:
Let's immediately dismiss views 2 and 3 above, since no Christian would affirm God is not a king over every creature even if they don't recognize him, and because the Christian claims a special family relationship with God that others do not share. Okay so far? [If this is not okay please tell me what you mean by kingship and fatherhood and I'll see what can be said about your view].
This leaves view number 1. What is a good king? A good king enacts impartial justice to bring peace in his kingdom. He's impartial toward his subjects. His role is the Justice of the Peace. As a good father though, the king must treat his sons differently. What is a good father? A good father will show partiality to his children, or favor them because he loves them. He's partial to them. He loves them.
Now it's quite possible for a good king to love his subjects, and a good father must show impartial love toward all of his children. But a good king must be impartial toward his subjects, while a good father should be partial toward his sons. The good father will always favor his sons over any outsider, while a good king should not favor anyone in his kingdom. So it just doesn't seem possible that a good king can treat his subjects like sons, nor can a good father treat his sons like subjects.
Take the issue of punishment, for instance. A good king may enact stiff punishments for crimes committed based on deterence, reformation and retribution (although no moral sense can be made of the latter motivation). A good father though, will not punish his children in the same ways a good king should (what father, for instance, would ever kill his son for any crime, even if he was the king, even a good one?).
Christians believe God acts like a king when he punishes sin. The person who sins must die. That is a kingly image which show no partiality, and as such God is primarily viewed as a king. If God were primarily viewed as a father to his children, he would not demand this punishment. He would be more like the father in the Parable of the Lost Son, who simply accepts his wayward son back based on his repentance.
So if God is a fatherly king then we have a huge problem, for one of these images must be primary. As a king he cannot act as a father. As a father he cannot act like a king. If God is a king to everyone but a father only to the elect, then he is not acting as a good king. Why? Because inside of his kingdom he's showing favoritism towards a certain group of people.
So which is it? Is God primarily a king or a father? He cannot be both.
Philosopundit's "Four Philosophical Moments That Changed My Life"
August 13, 2007
Cognitive Dissonance and the Problem of Evil
This article is a summary of a portion of an interview with Social Psychologist Carol Tavris on Point of Inquiry, the Podcast of the Center for Skeptical Inquiry. She and Social Psychologist Elliot Aronson are the authors of a book on Cognitive Dissonance called Mistakes Were Made (But Not By Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs and how it affects us in everyday life. It covers the manifestation of Cognitive Dissonance in prosecuting attorneys, law enforcement officials, politicians, smokers etc. In the interview she was asked if Cognitive Dissonance is manifested in religious belief and this article summarizes her response.
In the beginning of the interview she talks about characteristics of Cognitive Dissonance and how it manifests itself in Attorneys that have discovered they have wrongly prosecuted someone, law enforcement officials that are trained to believe the person being questioned is just as good as guilty thereby justifying whatever means necessary to elicit a confession, and politicians that support policy that is shown over time to be wrong but will not change their position. She uses the resulting situation of the Iraq War and the position of the Bush Administration as an example of a manifestation of Cognitive Dissonance.Q: There are religious people that don't demand proof for their beliefs, is this a way of relieving their cognitive dissonance?
A: The more important a particular belief is to us the more strongly we will ignore or reject evidence suggesting we are wrong. Religion is central to what gives many people meaning and purpose in life. This type of belief will be defended at all costs. Examples of dis-confirming evidence creating Cognitive Dissonance are Evolution, the Holocaust and disasters.
Most religious people are not threatened by evolution. They find a way to fit it into their beliefs, but some cannot fit it into their beliefs and they will go to great lengths to try to refute the dis-confirming evidence.
How do Jews deal with the Holocaust? The Jews believe they are the chosen people, and god is looking after them. How could a good loving god have permitted genocide? Students of Cognitive Dissonance Theory would predict that people would become more religious and their faith would be strengthened. What most people do is not lose their faith in God but reduce the dissonance by saying God is responsible for the Good in the world, human beings are responsible for the Evil or God is testing faith. The Christian response to the question of how Jesus could permit enormous suffering to happen is to believe that it is to test faith. Anything that is not consonant with a belief in God is reinterpreted to make it consonant. For example after a terrible disaster the survivors will say something like "god was looking after me" but discounting the fact that God was not looking out for other people that died.
Another interesting interview related to cognitive dissonance is from the radio show "All in the Mind". They interviewed Phillip Zambardo, the lead researcher involved with the Stanford Prison Experiment. The experiment had to be canceled because it got out of control. The participants started self-justifying doing terrible things to each other and it had to be stopped. He was the expert witness for the defendants in the Abu Ghraib trial, explaining how situational factors can make good people do bad things using cognitive dissonance to self-justify their actions. He talks about it in his book The Lucifer Effect.
It made me think about slavery, the crusades, Old Testament atrocities and Craigs defense of killing pregnant mothers with a sword. (thanks Steven Carr!)
REFERENCES
Point of Inquiry podcast with Carol Tavris interview.
Science Friday podcast interview with Elliot Aronson
Mistakes Were Made (But Not By Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs
Wikipedia on Cognitive Dissonance
All in the Mind
Stanford Prison Experiment
The Lucifer Effect
The Sixth Humanist Symposium Has Been Posted
Dr. Craig Answers Dan Barker's Alleged Argument
A questioner asked Dr. William Lane Craig something about the Kalam Argument, and he responds here. [Note that Craig doesn't think this is actually Dan's argument].
Dan wants people to know that it is not in fact his argument. He wrote me,
"Could you reply that this was a misrepresentation of my argument? I was very careful not to phrase it like Craig phrased it, and Craig clearly did not read my article. Well, it was not cited, so he could not have. My article is to be found here."
Dr. Craig's Moral Argument for the Existence of God
Atheist Dr. Zachary Moore was invited by Kevin Harris to question Dr. William Lane Craig during a lecture after the taping of a podcast for his Reasonable Faith website this past weekend. I find Kevin to be quite charitable, and this is a mark of someone who values truth. Dr. Moore writes about this experience on his Blog where Craig is offering his moral argument for the existence of God. Craig is in the process of revising his Reasonable Faith book and it will include this argument.
Dr. Moore had previously asked me what question I might ask Craig and he writes about it in the last paragraph. It's the same one Mark Smith asked him that many Christians have doubted he did. Smith simply challenged others to ask the same question, and Moore did with pretty much the same results. (Click on "Comments on Craig's Book: Reasonable Faith").
August 11, 2007
The Pale Blue Dot and Four Cosmological Displacements
Through astronomy there have been four cosmological displacements:
1) The Copernican theory of the heliocentric universe defended by Galileo. (1600’s). Man was no longer the center of our particular solar system.
2) The discovery that our solar system is not central to the Milky Way galaxy, but located on the periphery; out on a spiral arm. (c. 1900). Man was not even central in his own galaxy.
3) The discovery that our galaxy is only one of billions of galaxies. (c. 1930’s). Man isn’t even central to the universe as a whole.
4) The possibility that there are an infinite number of universes, called a multiverse. God is no longer needed.
Doing Apologetics: "From Below" or "From Above"?
Karl Barth spoke of doing theology "from below," in distinction from doing it "from above." If someone starts out looking at this natural world and tries to inductively conclude something about God, (or the supernatural realm "above"), he cannot do it, Barth would claim. Only if someone starts "from above" in presupposing God (or the supernatural realm), and tries to explain the natural world from that presupposition (for him the Bible as a "witness"), can it be done. My professor Dr. James D. Strauss argued likewise, although he is no Barthian. He would argue "we either start with God or we'll never get to God." So a big question is in trying to justify our starting point. Do we start "from above," or "from below"?
As a Thomist, Norman Geisler’s arguments start “from below.” His apologetic includes 12 steps: 1) Truth about reality is knowable; 2) Opposites cannot both be true; 3) The theistic God exists; 4) Miracles are possible; 5) Miracles performed in connection with a truth claim are acts of God to confirm the truth of God through a messenger of God; 6) The New Testament documents are reliable; 7) As witnessed in the New Testament, Jesus claimed to be God; 8) Jesus’ claim to divinity was proven by an unique convergence of miracles; 9) Therefore, Jesus was God in human flesh; 10) Whatever Jesus (who is God) affirmed as true, is true; 11) Jesus affirmed that the Bible is the Word of God; 12) Therefore, it is true that the Bible is the Word of God and whatever is opposed to any biblical truth is false.”[1]
The thing about Geisler's twelve apologetical steps is that his whole case will fall to the ground if any one step if shown faulty. I'm not even so sure about his first step!
However, isn't it obvious that if you must presuppose God, then you may begin with a false presupposition to begin with? If humans have such a strong tendency to defend what they were raised to believe, especially when it comes to religious beliefs, then they will probably be able to defend whatever they first presuppose. And if that's the case, their arguments probably beg the question.
------------------
[1] From Baker’s Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics (Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 1999), “Apologetics, Argument of"
August 10, 2007
Atheism is a Growing Movement
Poll data shows agnostics and atheists may make up 25% of Americans. David Mills explains 10 reasons why we're about to enter a golden age of atheism.
August 08, 2007
Reasonable Doubt About "Adaption Theory"
Why didnt Jesus give us any NEW information before we discovered it ourselves? Using the History of Science this article demonstrates a reasonable doubt about the idea that Jesus adapted his teaching to suit humans. While I don't think there is actually a theory called "Adaption Theory", there should be to encapsulate this idea that the ancients were not sophisticated enough to handle the truth. All of the characters in the bible had contemporaries in science. This article lists the more famous ones, briefly describes what they did and provides a link to more information about them. I rushed to get this out in support of Johns article The Accomodation Theory of the Bible.
Did you ever wonder why there is no mention of any of the Ice Ages in the Bible? They took so much time to detail the parameters of the ark but didn't spend a word on "there was time when the world was frozen, and the melting ice caused the flood!". It would not have made it any more true, but it would have made it more plausible and hard to deny.
Did you ever wonder why a God on Earth wouldn't allot some time to write anything down?
Pythagoras, not a prophet, just a sinner, is reportedly to have said "numbers are the essence of things" at least 500 years before Jesus and a thousand years before Mohammad. This appears to be true since many discoveries about nature occurred through mathematics. If Jesus had given us a clue about the concept of Zero (discovered by Ptolemy about 130 ad, then rediscovered between 598 - 876) we may have been able to develop more quickly in terms of technology and intellect. Many medical, charitable, evangelical (etc..) organizations greatly benefit from technology enabled by mathematics that use zero. Jesus could have busted many incorrectly held beliefs that could have been empirically verified through the ages.
Jesus could have given us Ptolemies Tables before Ptolemy (140ce) or got the jump on Dioscorides (50ce) and wrote a little something about pharmacology. Jesus could have told us that the world is not flat and that the stars are not rooted in a dome over the earth. Eratosthenes (240 bc) proved the world was not flat and Tyco Brahe (1577) proved there were no domes around the earth. If these had come from divine revelation from a prophet, just think how much this fact would support a belief in Jesus.
Instead Zero came from the Hindus and Algebra came from the Muslims (generally speaking) and Jesus apparently erroneously predicted his return before all his apostles died (Mt. 16:28).
Jesus could have told us about the earths water cycle, precipitation, how to build better materials, how to improve sanitation, how to handle infections better, how to do agriculture better, that God doesn't live in the clouds, etc. Jesus should have come as the engineer/leader/politician type anticipated by the Jews. He could have changed the face of politics forever.
Jesus could have told us about the Fibonacci series in Nature, Quantum Mechanics (1900), the Chaos theory (1903) that there is energy stored in matter (1905), Jesus could have told us that randomness in a closed system, much like what can be demonstrated by running a 'chaos theory' program on a computer, is common in nature. Jesus could have told us about Evolution (1859).
Jesus could have prevented or corrected the errors in the old testament regarding the flat earth and the domed sky, or the fact that anything with wings (Lev.11:23), that is not mythical, does not have four legs or the Pi is not three, or all the other ones listed here at this site. Even Jesus philosophy of reciprocity or "the golden rule" first appeared in "The tale of the Eloquent Peasant" between 1670 - 1640s BC, a good four hundred years before it was attributed to Moses.
I know that scripture are not history or science treatise, but heck, even Dan Brown gets facts about the world he lives in correct and scientists make predictions that get verified all the time and they are just a human.
Here's a list of People that added new information to the world that were, more or less, contemporaries of Moses, Jesus and Mohammad
- BCE 3000 Astronomy Egyptians, Babylonians and Chinese
- BCE 530 Pythagorus - Pythagorean theorem
- BCE 350 Aristotle - Started biological classifications for animals, founded western philosophy.
- BCE 320 Theophrastus - Started botanical science
- BCE 300 Euclid - "Father of Geometry"
- BCE 260 Archimedes - Inventor and discoverer of Priciples of Density and Buonancy.
- BCE 240 Eratosthenes - Proved the world was round, first to calculate the size of it.
- BCE 134 Hipparchus - Developed accurate models of motion for sun and moon
- CE 50 Dioscorides - Wrote the first five books that started Pharmacology
- CE 140 Ptolemy - Discovered methods to model the solar system and map the Earth.
- CE 180 Galen - Set the standard for Modern medicine
- CE 876 Brahmagupta - Discovered Zero, the most important discovery in mathematics.
Why doesn't God give his religious leaders or scientists verifiable revelations?
There's no time like the present! Here's a list of past and present from Wikipedia but I'm sure you know some more that I missed.
- List of Christian Thinkers in Science
- List of Muslim Scientists
As far as I know, not one of them has said "God gave me a revelation when I was praying one day. It had nothing to do with dedicating a large portion of my life to research. Here's the proof, you can verify it for yourselves."
August 06, 2007
Jesus and the Ancient Superstitious "Evil Eye" Problem.
[Written 8/6/07 by John Loftus] Are we to actually believe that people have a powerful "evil eye"? In Matt 6:22 (Luke 11:34-36) Jesus says "The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is generous [NRSV: healthy], your whole body will be full of light; but if your eye is evil, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!" Later, Jesus mentions the evil eye in the parable of the laborers in the vineyard (Matt 20:15). The landowner asks the worker, "Do you have the evil eye because I am generous?"
According to the Gospel of Mark, Jesus, in a dispute with the Pharisees over the issue of purity, (Mark 7: 1-23), lists the evil eye (Mark 7:22) among a group of evil things (Mark 7:23) that emerge from the human heart and thereby pollute a person. Note that Paul (Gal. 3:1) uses the concept as well: "O foolish Galatians! Who has put the evil eye on, you before whose eyes Jesus Christ was proclaimed crucified?"
Anencepahlic Babies and the Problem of Evil

This article is to narrow down the Problem of Evil to one type of situation that I have not seen Christians provide a rationale for. Maybe I missed it because I wasn't reading carefully enough. In any case here is the chance for Christians to resolve this once and for all, to provide something they can proudly point to on this blog as an unequivocal victory.
P1. God is Omnipresent, Omniscient, Omnipotent
P2. God is Good.
P3. God permits suffering because it creates a greater good
C. There should be no suffering that does not add value to the greater good.
Anencephaly is a lethal birth defect characterized by the absence of all or part of the skull and scalp and malformation of the brain. (answers.com)
Anencephaly from Wikipedia.
As far as I can tell, the couples that have had anencephalic babies were average people. Some of them appear to be persons of faith. They exercised their free will and they wanted to have children. The woman did nothing intentionally or inadvertently that would have caused this. The babies were carried to term and they typically live up to three to five days before they die. While it is true that there is no perceptible suffering on the babies part, there is suffering on the part of the parents and family. What value to the greater good could this possibly add? And if it is for "soul building", then why doesn't something similar happen to everyone? For most people I think it can be said that having a baby is a joyous time.
This webring is a tribute and place where people who have had this happen to them support each other.
Anencephalic Angels I provided the text of the first page as an appendix to this article.
As far as I can tell the only defense is to Appeal to Ignorance/Appeal to Mystery. It can be argued that we don't have enough information to say anything about Gods goodness. It can even be argued that God defines goodness, and our definition is flawed. But be careful when you do that because you are establishing a principle that can be used to show that it is impossible to know anything about God with any certainty. If the problem of Evil is the fault of Man, and started in the Garden of Eden by disobeying god, or if the story of A & E is metaphor for mans natural condition, then mans tendency to disobey God makes it impossible to know anything about God with any certainty.
If
P1. man caused his own fall through the exercise of freewill and disobeyed God,
P2. And as a result or initial condition man is prone to sin,
P3. And God wrote the bible through man,
P4. And The bible scriptures are the only accepted authority about God
P5. And Man is prone to mis-interpret the bible as evidenced by the multitude of theological disagreements,
P6. And There is no standard except Jesus by which to measure proper knowledge of God,
P7. And Because we only know anything about Jesus anecdotally and not from the source,
C. there is no way to know if the information in the Bible is accurate therefore no one can know anything with any certainty about God.
It appears to me that God has a problem with infinity. If God had boundaries, then it seems to me that most of the Atheistic arguments against God would go away.
I don't think the ancients thought it through very well. That is a characteristic of folklore.
If you say that God is not completely good, or God is not omnipotent then the problem of Evil/Suffering goes away or if Jesus had sat down and spent a month writing, then I suppose he could have explained it away.
And if this too easy to explain, heres another one
Police, shooting at snake, kill 5-year-old boy, officials say
APPENDIX
Here is a list of the First page of Links on the Anencephalic Angels web ring.
In Memory of Adam
In memory of our angel, Adam, who we lost due to anencephaly.
Matthew's Memorial
This site was made in memory of my sweet baby boy, Matthew, who was stillborn due to anencephaly.
Jessica's Journey
My Jessica's story, information about anencephaly, support groups, memorial links, and inspirational stories are all found within the pages of Jessica's Journey.
Nathan's Story
This is the story of our precious little boy, Nathan ,who lived for 25hrs and 2 minutes before returning to heaven.
MY ANGEL ARIEL
Memorial to my baby lost to anencephaly and a tribute to her sister lost to miscarriage at 12 weeks.
My Angel Lily Faith
Memorial to my baby born with anenchephaly after years of intertility & IVF treatment.
Memorial to Mary Elizabeth Karg
A short story with pictures about the happenings leading up to the birth of Mary Elizabeth, about her short life, and about saying goodbye.
IN Loving Memory of Annalise
The story of the my daughther Annalise from her diagnosis till eventual death.
Anouk's memorial
A memorial to my anencephalic daughter Anouk.
Michaela's Hope
A site created in memory of our daughter, Michaela Hope.
Calebs Memorial
A memorial site for our angel Caleb whom we lost to Anencephaly in March of 1999.
Faith Lynn
This site is dedicated to my daughter, Faith Lynn, who was born and died on 8-21-02 due to complications from anencephaly.
Heaven's Lullaby
A place where mommys, daddys, and families can find comfort and support after the loss of their baby.
Ryan and Jesse Angel Babies
This is a educational memorial dedicated to my angels Jesse who had anencephaly and Ryan had congential diaphragmatic hernia.
Anencephaly - Angel Meert's Memorial Site
This is a memorial site dedicated to our baby boy that we lost to Anencephaly on 7th October 1995.
Gabriel Aaron Meehan our child in heaven
Gabriel Aaron Meehan was born on April 15, 2003 to his loving parents Ben and Kelly, and to his adoring big brother and sister Zach and Emmarie.
Jasmine Faith, Our Treasure in Heaven
The story of my daughter, who passed away shortly after birth due to anencephaly.
My Angel Daniel
This is a website in memory of my sweet boy who i lost to Anencephaly in Jan 1992.
Our Precious daughter 'Angel'
Memorial to our baby lost to anencephaly on January 12th 2002.
Amanda Marie
In loving memory of my daughter, Amanda, who was born still because of anencephaly.
August 05, 2007
God and the Problem of Evil, Again.
Jennifer responded again to this post of mine, which originated out of a challenge to Christians to put up or shut up...literally. Jennifer wrote:
It seems that this is hinging on God making sure we don't hurt each other by intervening in some way before the act is carried out....Let's say someone is going to kidnap a child. At what point does God stop them? Let's say this kidnapper had a bad childhood. (I'm using a real life example.) His brother sexually assaulted him many times, which means it probably happened to his brother, which means it probably happened to the person who did it to his brother etc...So on the day this man is driving around on the lookout for someone to take, he sees who he wants and runs out of gas. (God's intervetion) What does he do next? Are you saying that if he runs out of gas enough times he will eventually give up? If I follow this idea all the way to it's end, it seems that God would have to start with babies. But then what if the parents are just evil people? He should stop them from having children? It seems like what you are really saying is that God should just make us right to begin with so nothing will go wrong.Okay, this is worth responding to. Good questions and good point. Thank you. Since she may be speaking the thoughts of others, let me respond below:
There are three prior possibilities that you must first deal with before we should consider your questions. 1) I have argued here that God did not have a reason for creating anything at all, but even if he did so anyway, then 2) he could've and should've created a heavenly world with heavenly beings in the first place (I reject any notion that a being in the direct unmediated presence of an all powerful and perfectly loving God would ever under any circumstances rebel). And I also argue that 3) given the intense suffering in this world (both with animals and human beings) and the suffering of billions of people forever in hell, that God should not have given these creatures free will in the first place. It was an immoral decision of God’s by any standards we have to judge whether a good God exists or not, which are the same moral standards that Christians themselves use to judge the morality of any act. To those who want to maintain that free will is an overweighing good, I argue that free will is not such a good thing. Besides, we do not have abstract freedom anyway, able to do whatever we want to do. We are limited by our age, gender, physical strength and stamina, looks, finances, social status, era we live in, and where we live. Since this is so, further limiting our free choices when we already have limited freedom anyway is not a problem, especially when we see the Biblical God doing just that in several cases (Pharaoh’s hardened heart, planting thoughts (or dreams) into someone’s head (Paul’s visions), making a person insane (Nebuchadnezzar), and/or simply killing them (Herod, Uzzah, Ananias & Sapphira).
Hence the questions and points that you make are nonsensical until you first deal with these three prior possibilities.
If however, for no good reason at all (especially for no good moral reason) God created a fleshly world with free creatures in it, then and only then are we faced with the difficulties you point out, but they are not difficulties at all, especially for God. Let me explain.
Yes, there are generational moral deficiencies passed down through the ages. I simply say nip this in the bud at the very first person in the generational line to screw up. If Adam & Eve existed, start with them, and I’ve already argued this case here.
If a man is about to start a generational chain of molesters, stop him from molesting his first victim. It’s that simple. If he’s religious, try by planting thoughts into his head at an early age. Keep him from those experiences which will cause him to desire this, if possible. Start young in his life, and early as needed. I see no difficulty for this with an omniscient God who is reading his thoughts as he thinks them. If he continues to rebel, and I simply see no reason he would if God monitors his thought life and redirects it, then give him a heart attack the day he decides to do it. What exactly is the problem here, since as the author of life you will claim he can take it away? And this could be repeated for any heinous moral act down through the centuries. If you want to maintain we need some problems to challenge us, then God need not stop all “sinful” acts, only the most heinous ones. If you want to claim that for all you know he does stop many of them, there is no evidence that he does, and the number of sicko’s out there left to wreak havoc upon us means he doesn’t do enough.
August 03, 2007
Responding to Jennifer
This is a continuation of a discussion I provoked with this post.
There have been some good responses but let me highlight Jennifer's since she attempted to meet my challenge, and later asked me to comment on it. She wrote: What would it take?
It would take you explaining why God should even bother with people who don't listen to Him even when He does show Himself. What does the world say when a person claims they were healed of cancer? They say, "we can explain that..blah blah blah". Tell me how a young man is prayed for an his short leg grows three inches on the spot. We aren't going to run and tell the news, they would sensationalize a powerful moment between a young man and God.
I'll tell you what...my 10 year old has a mass in her pancreas. I don't expect God to heal it. I will ask Him to, but with all the toxins we depend on every day, why should God intervene?
When every single person on this planet gets on their knees and asks God to forgive them for their little part of messing up the planet and each other..for disregarding and ignoring Him and being so busy with churchy stuff or work or whatever..and we all stay there until we cannot physically survive any longer...if at that point, God does nothing I will concede that I am wrong and there is no god.
It is all the fault of man.
Jennifer, Jennifer. Why should God wait to answer your prayers until people pray? Don't you see this is a cop out, an easy excuse to continue believing in God? If God cares and we fail to pray why does he punish your 10 year old? Why doesn't he merely respond to your prayers? Why doesn't he just do the right thing regardless? After all, God should care about your 10 year old even if no one else does. Besides, if your God is the perfect parent, then YOU as an imperfect parent do not love your 10 year old better than he does. And since I am absolutely sure that you as an imperfect parent would not wait to heal your 10 year old until other people prayed, then why does God?
As regards to your response, besides everything else that God fails to do here, you have set up a test that will never happen for so many reasons, not the least of which because not everyone on earth will ever hear of your request. So why such an absurd test? Why not make it something that can happen? I'll tell you why you don't. It's because you fear that if your request might be within the bounds of reason it will never happen, that's all. So you testify against yourself here. You have blind faith, pure and simple. You never want to actually have a test that might show your faith to be false.
I had written:Jospeh said...There would be FAR more gained morally if the sickos were STOPPED in the act...
In response to this
Yes! Yes! Yes! Compare that to what we do as human beings. We lock these people up. We take away their freedom. We think this is a good thing. It helps people to live peacful lives.
Can you hear any sane person saying, yes, but freedom is so precious we shouldn't stop them? Sorry, but sometimes I have nothing else to say but "bullshit!"
We already have examples in the Bible where God took away people's freedom when he killed them, and we have Pharoah whose heart was hardened. So God can do it. Freedom isn't a good thing when it comes to sicko's, so where is God?
I'll tell you where. No where.
Jennifer wrote: OK..let's have God come tell us to build enormous prisons and then we will farm the land, sew the clothes, fetch the water and provide the medicine they need in order to keep them all alive. Sounds like a great way for the rest of us to live...support all the sickos so they can get free care.
The idiocy here, Jennifer, is that you think I am the one suggesting the things that YOU did. I am not. I am merely suggesting that a good God should limit the freedom of these sicko's just like he hardened Pharoah's heart for good purposes. I have suggested a number of ways God could do this, not the least of which is to plant thoughts in their minds, cause them to blackout just before assaulting a woman, make them have a flat tire on the way to rob a bank.
Or..would you propose God supply all their needs through miraculous intervention? If that's the case, there are days I would rather be in prison!
Or maybe you think God should build this prison or create another planet for all the sickos but let us stay here. Those people won't suffer necessarily except to be abusing each other...then what is solved? All of the transgressors would be complaining like you are and saying how unfair it is for God to send them away.
I'm sorry, John, that is just idiocy.
I would like YOU to answer my questions.
Listen, life has been very good to me when I compare mine to most everyone else in third world countires, and many even in America. I have not had any real physical suffering in my life. I've always had something to eat, I'm not butt ugly (well....at least my wife thinks so), and I have social skills that help me get along with many different people. But life is still difficult for me, sometimes very difficult. And here's my point. Why can't God make everyone's life face the same level of difficulties as I have? I don't need to be maimed by an attacker. I don't have to sit and watch my children as they are gunned down by a sicko. I don't have to suffer because some sicko decides to hurt me. I don't need these thngs to have a difficult life. I don't need these things to strengthen my character. I don't need these things to test my moral resolve. I AM ALREADY TESTED DAILY BY THIS LIFE ITSELF WITHOUT THESE ADDED PROBLEMS! And if that's true then neither does anyone else need them! I merely claim that God should stop these kind of sicko's dead in their tracks, just like we put them in prison, and just like he purportedly did in the Bible by killing some of them. It would be easy to do and he could do it without us even knowing he did.
Cheers to you. Nothing personal.
I Challenge Christians To Put Up Or Shut UP...Literally!
It's always man's fault, isn't it? It's never God's fault according to Christians, no matter what the problem is. They are letting God off the hook too easily here...way to easily. What would it take for Christians to say, "hey, this is probably God's fault in some way"? The fact is, God did not reveal himself clearly which has led to so much confusion among Christians even to the point of burning other Christian people alive (at least some, and probably many of the people burned at the stake during the Inquisition would be admitted into today's fundamentalist churches). There have been wars between Christians too. Christians killing other Christians due to a disagreement over little things by today's standards by far, leaving many widows without a husband and many children without a father.
What would it take Christian, for you to consider what I consider obvious? Name it, or drop this defense of your God.
Furthermore, why God did not say this: "Thou shalt not buy, own, sell, or trade slaves," and say it so often that Christians would've gotten the point and be appalled if any other professing Christian decided to own a slave in the American South, much less make it allowable under law. Some of these slaves became Christians and their Christian masters still beat them and whipped them and raped their wives and daughters.
God is at least partially to fault! I have argued this many times before. Christians are simply not being reasonable about this because of blind faith...that's right...blind faith.
But here's the rub. If God is even partially to fault, then this destroys the orthodox Christian faith in a perfectly good God who is believed to be completely pure and faultless. So Christians continue spouting off proof texts mindlessly in support of their blind faith.
Sorry to be so harsh, but Christians are clearly and plainly denying what is obvious...obvious. Which can only mean they are blinded by their faith just as much as sincere Muslims who become suicide bombers in hopes for 70 virgins when they die (THEY REALLY BELIEVE THIS, AND YOU COULD NOT CONVINCE THEM OTHERWISE!). The one difference in today's world (for the time being) is that the Christian blindness (for the most part) doesn't cause this much mayhem. But both are blind.
lowendaction recently provoked this outrage from me when he described, as I've heard so many times before, "a wide range of so-called Christian church fellowships..." (Although, what he said was mild compared to this response of mine which has been building up from hearing so many others who say the same thing in more matter-of-fact ways).
What do Christians mean by describing other evangelical Christian fellowships as "so-called" ones (I presume that's the only fellowship he would be a part of, and if I'm wrong, this takes nothing away from my upcoming challenge)? My challenge is this: Tell me what they believed or how they acted and I will show you how easliy God could have straightened them out. Barring God doing that, I can probably show you how you either believe or act the same way, or that what you believe or how you behave is at least as bad as them (in many cases).
I think I can show you how easily God could've done differently by clearly communicating to them. Easily. Try me. It's PARTIALLY God's fault Christians don't know what the truth is or how they should act.
Give us here at DC a try. Put up or shut up. I claim it's partially God's fault, and if that's the case your orthodox faith crumbles to the ground.
Podcast of Stephen Law Discussing The Problem of Evil

Since John turned me on to the Problem of Evil and Stephen Law, I have stumbled onto an interview with him, David Edmunds and Nigel Warburton discussing it. Stephen takes the problem of evil and turns it around and explores it as the Problem of Good to illustrate its shortcomings. I highly recommend it for everyone.
The picture is of an apologist bending over backwards to dodge some arguments in our recent debates here on DC of the Problem of Evil.
Here are several options for acquiring it.
- The MP3
- Philosophy bites on Learnoutloud.com
- Philosophy Bites Blog
The Identity Crisis of Deconversion

This is a tribute to some very brave commenters. Wrestling with God is one of the hardest things you will ever do. I don't care if you keep your faith or not. It doesn't matter to me. What does matter to me and actually gets me choked up is the situation you find yourself in now. I remember what it was like and it was a very sad time for me.
I have a similar story to you. I was the adult bible study teacher, led the singing every sunday, usually sang the lead in the Christmas Cantata, was the 'goto guy' and a pillar of the community, etc. But in the process of my deconversion, I had no one to talk to. No one wanted to hear it. Those that did said to pray about it. But how can they understand that praying doesn't fix it? Praying is part of the problem. They said during and afterwards that I wasn't working hard enough, or doing it right, but just have faith. In the speed of a thought, I went from being a good guy to a bad guy. When I wasn't a Christian anymore I became an Atheist. I went from being morally sound to immoral. I lost a part of myself. It was like losing a spouse or child or parent. I lost my Identity. And I lost the kind of friendships that I used to have. For me, everything changed. I had a library full of christian appologetics and commentaries, I had invested so much time in the church and studying the bible. I was forever going to be a different person. I miss the fellowship, and I guess that is one of main reasons I joined DC, to talk about it and share my experiences with people like you. Now I dabble in reasoning and philosophy. I don't want to get fooled again.
Take care and good luck.
lee
August 02, 2007
Debunking J.P. Holding (aka Robert Turkel)
August 01, 2007
The Shroud of Turin
I'm writing about the Shroud of Turin as evidence for Jesus. Is it? See also here.
Catholic physicist Frank J. Tipler, of the anthropic principle fame, has recently defended the Shroud of Turin as genuine in his newest book.
In his book, if I understand him correctly, he argues that a virgin birth of a male child has the probability of 1 and 120 billion from happening naturally. Given the fact that he calculates there have been 60 billion Homo sapiens who have populated the earth, such a thing becomes somewhat probable. Mary would have been an XXY chromosomal female (Klinefelter’s syndrome), except her womb would’ve been normal. The virgin born male child would have a XX chromosomal structure, just like females. This child might not have male genitals.
Now comes the Shroud. DNA evidence from the Shroud showed that the blood had an XY pair, but Tipler argues this might be from contamination. The full results of the DNA testing of the Shroud were published, he says, in an obscure Italian journal, which included "a computer output of the DNA analyzer." However, "there was no attempt to interpret the data.” As soon as Tipler saw the data he was able to interpret it "at once." He says, “They are the expected signature of the DNA of a male born in a virgin birth”--a double XX structure. (p. 184). Thus, “the DNA data support the virgin birth hypothesis,” and that the Turin Shroud “is genuine.”(p. 187).
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Blinded by Science?
by Lawrence Krauss By the time I was halfway through Frank Tipler’s new book I scanned the table of contents and was disappointed to find there would be no explanation of the recently reported miraculous appearance of Mother Teresa’s image on a cheese Danish in Nashville. That was unusual, given that Tipler goes out of his way to provide convoluted physics justifications for key Christian miracles, including the image of Jesus on the Shroud of Turin, long debunked as a 14th-century forgery by many experts. Moreover, whenever conventional physics doesn’t provide a sufficient explanation for the phenomenon of interest, Tipler re-invents it.
As a collection of half-truths and exaggerations, I was first tempted to describe Tipler’s new book as nonsense, but I soon realized that that would be unfair to the concept of nonsense. These descriptions are far more dangerous than nonsense, because Tipler’s reasonable descriptions of various aspects of modern physics, combined with his respectable research pedigree, give the distinct illusion that he is honestly describing what the laws of physics imply. He is not. This book provides an object lesson in the dangers of pushing science beyond its domain of validity, and using various scientific approximations as if they are completely valid in all contexts.
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The Physics of Nonsense
Tim CallahanDr. Frank Tipler really, really — no, I mean really — needs to take a basic, freshman level, course in comparative mythology. He could also use a course in the development of Christian dogma. He could as well use a little knowledge of what the Bible actually says in the original Hebrew (for the Jewish Scriptures) and the original Greek (for the Christian Scriptures).
As is the case of previous works of this sort, Tipler’s attempt to shoehorn science into the Bible ignores the disciplines of biblical scholarship. There is an arrogance implicit in this. The author is saying, in essence, that his discipline should be respected, but that the disciplines of linguistics, biblical scholarship, comparative mythology, history, and archaeology are of no consequence.
In past exercises of this sort tsunami’s have been used as the explanation for the Exodus story of the Israelites crossing the Red Sea dry shod — when the waters rolled out just before the tidal wave — and for the ensuing destruction of their Egyptian pursuers — when the tsunami proper hit. Earthquakes have been used to explain the collapse of the walls of Jericho, and a multitude of scientific causes have been proposed for the sun standing still at the command of Joshua (see my article “Sun Stand Thou Still” Skeptic Vol. 7, No. 3, 1999). Tipler plays fast and loose with translation of the biblical text and Christian dogma, ignores comparative mythology as an explanation for such things as the virgin birth, and makes bizarre demands on science itself to prove as literally true the Trinity, the Star of Bethlehem, the Virgin Birth and, of course, the Resurrection.
Tipler wades through well-trodden turf in the matter of the Virgin Birth, by trying to make the Immanuel Prophecy in Isaiah 7:14 fit the birth of Jesus, even though it was plainly misused by Matthew. Here is Is. 7:14 as rendered in the King James Version: “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.” Here is the same verse as rendered in the Revised Standard Version: “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign; Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
Notice that the “virgin” of the King James Bible has transmogrified into a “young woman.” This is because the Greek of the New Testament and the Septuagint had one word, parthenos, that could be rendered both as “virgin” and “unmarried woman,” whereas the Hebrew scriptures used two words. One, bethula, means specifically “virgin.” The other, almah, means simply a young woman. The word used in Is. 7:14 is almah. Ergo, it is not a prediction of the Virgin Birth, Q.E.D. Yet Tipler rationalizes (pp. 156-157) that maybe the meaning of almah changed over time, and asserts, without supportive evidence, that there are numerous references to the Virgin Birth in Paul’s letters, as well as in Mark and John.
There is an amazingly simple way to cut through all this rationalization and speculation, and that is to put the Immanuel Prophecy back in the context of Isaiah 7. King Ahaz of Judah is being attacked by King Pekah of Israel in alliance with Rezin, prince of Damascus. Isaiah assures Ahaz that God will protect him, saying that a young woman will shortly bear a child named Immanuel, meaning “God is with us.” After this prediction Isaiah says (Is. 7:16) that before this child knows how to refuse evil and choose good, that is, before he reaches the age of moral discrimination, 12 years old at the latest, the kingdoms of Israel and Damascus will be deserted. In other words, this prophecy dealt with the period of the Assyrian conquest of Israel and Damascus by Tiglath-pileser III ca. 732 BCE. There is simply no way to honestly stretch this to fit the Matthean Nativity and the Virgin Birth.
While Tipler’s attempt to use the Immanuel Prophesy as a prediction of Jesus being born of a virgin is both tired and tiresome, his attempt to make the Virgin Birth compatible with science is novel, if nothing else. He argues that parthenogenesis, whereby a female animal can reproduce without being fertilized by a male, could be a scientific way for a virgin to give birth. There are a number of problems with this. First, parthenogenesis has never been observed in mammals. Second, parthenogenesis results from the female egg not undergoing meiosis or reduction division, which produces a haploid cell that needs to unite with another haploid cell to produce a new individual. In parthenogenesis the egg keeps its full compliment of chromosomes, meaning, in mammals, two X chromosomes. Thus a parthenogenetic birth should only produce a daughter. How do we get Jesus? Tipler argues that Jesus was a double X male, an oddity that appears in one out of every 20,000 births. This might just be possible, though it’s still stretching things. However just when you think Tipler’s going to be rational, he brings in something weird. In the case of attempting to prove that Jesus had a double X chromosome genotype, it’s the Shroud of Turin, from which he hopes to find Jesus’ XX genotype in the DNA from the blood on the Shroud. Most people know that the Shroud was radiocarbon dated to the 14th century. Not so says Tipler: The radiocarbon dating of the Shroud is known to be incorrect, first because bacterial contamination was not taken into account (bacteria add carbon of a later date than the actual Shroud material and thus make it seem younger than it is), and second, because the Shroud samples tested were apparently from a section that had been partially “repaired.” The chemist Raymond Rogers has done a careful chemical analysis of linen fibers taken from all areas of the Turin Shroud, and he is almost certain that the linen used to obtain the radiocarbon date was medieval in origin. That is, the particular sample taken from the Shroud to obtain its age by radiocarbon dating was not manufactured at the same time as the rest of the Shroud. This suggests that the linen from the radiocarbon sample was added at a later date, probably to repair the Shroud. The radiocarbon analysis yielded a date between A.D. 1260 and 1390 completely inconsistent with Rogers’s chemical analysis of the linen fibers from the radiocarbon area.
It is interesting that the argument that bacterial contamination corrupted the date could be used against accepting the radiocarbon dates of the wrappings of the mummy of Rameses the Great or the beeswax used to seal the paint on the bust of Nefertiti. Of course, it never is because no one is trying to make Egyptian archaeology fit into the narrative of a holy text.
As to the argument that the parts of the Shroud tested were either burned or were patches, consider that in an article on the carbon dating of the Shroud in the February 16, 1989 issue of Nature, P.E. Damon and colleagues reported that textile experts took pains to select samples of the cloth away from areas that were either charred or patched. This was done under the auspices of the Holy See and under observation of the local Roman Catholic archbishop. Not only were samples of the Shroud sent to three independent laboratories, as controls they also sent pieces of cloth that were not from the Shroud. The pieces of cloth were labeled A, B, C, etc., and the laboratories were not told which samples were controls and which were from the Shroud. Also, the three laboratories did not compare results until after they had been transmitted to authorities at the British Museum, which was coordinating the testing. In other words, the samples of the shroud were not charred, nor were they from later patches. Furthermore, rigorous steps were taken to insure that the three independent findings were as objective as possible, with the following results reported by Damon in the Nature paper: The results of radiocarbon measurements at Arizona, Oxford and Zurich yield a calibrated age range with at least 95% confidence for the linen of the Shroud of Turin of AD 1260-1390 (rounded down / up to the nearest 10 yr.). These results therefore provide conclusive evidence that the linen of the Shroud of Turin is medieval.
Defenders of the shroud’s authenticity also claimed that pollen in the cloth could only have come from Israel and that the red brown paint was actually blood. That the heightened defense of the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin in response to the radiocarbon dating by the independent labs is rooted in pseudoscience fueled by faith, can be seen if one considers what the reaction from these sources would have been had the three independent labs found the cloth samples to be from the first century. Then there would have been nothing but praise for the radiocarbon process.
What about the fact that myths of virgin births, along with heroes and demigods rising from the dead, parallel the Christian accounts? Tipler abandons reason and empiricism in favor of what “rings” true to him: Indeed they were common, but the Gospel accounts of the Risen Jesus have in my judgment (and Pannenberg’s and that of most other scholars who have studied the matter with open minds) a ring of reality unlike these myths. Similarly, the accounts of the Virgin Birth in Matthew and Luke have the ring of reality, unlike the equally common ancient myths of the conception of a god born of copulation between a god and a human female. Matthew and Luke describe the Virgin Birth as the result of the action of the holy spirit, not as the result of intercourse between God the Father and Mary.
It is curious that Tipler finds that the accounts in Matthew and Luke of the Virgin Birth “have the ring of reality,” particularly since these two accounts disagree with each other in nearly every particular. Matthew says Joseph and Mary were living in Bethlehem, and only left for Nazareth to escape persecution, first from Herod the Great, then from his son Herod Archelaus. Luke says they were originally living in Nazareth, but had to go to Bethlehem to be entered into an empire-wide Roman census (which, by the way, is fictional). Thus, they had to make the 70-mile trek to get to Bethlehem with Mary in the late stages of pregnancy. This piece of melodrama, along with other important details, are missing from Matthew. Missing from Luke are the star of Bethlehem, the Magi, the slaughter of the innocents, and the flight of the holy family to Egypt. As to the supposed differences between the Christian myths and those of the pagans, consider what the early church father St. Justin Martyr (ca. CE 100–165) had to say on the subject in item 21 of his First Apology, a philosophical defense of Christian belief addressed to Emperor Antoninus Pius: And when we say also that the Word, who is the First-begotten of God, was born for us without sexual union, Jesus Christ our teacher, and that He was crucified and died and rose again and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing new beyond (what you believe) concerning those whom you call sons of Zeus. For you know of how many sons of Zeus your esteemed writers speak: Hermes, the interpreting Word and teacher of all; Asclepius, who though he was a great healer, after being struck by a thunderbolt, ascended into heaven; and Dionysus too who was torn in pieces; and Herakles, when he had committed himself to the flames to escape his pains; and the Dioscouri, the sons of Leda; and Perseus, son of Danae; and Bellerophon, who, though of mortal origin, rose to heaven on the horse Pegasus. For what shall I say of Ariadne and those who, like her, have been said to have been placed among the stars? And what of the emperors, whom you think it right to deify, and on whose behalf you produce someone who swears that he has seen the burning Caesar ascend to heaven from the funeral pyre?
That Justin compares the Christ myth to those of Greek mythology and even to the deification of emperors, saying, “we propound nothing new beyond what you believe,” indicates that he saw the virgin birth and the resurrection of Christ in the same light as what he acknowledged to be already existing beliefs, only assuming that the Christian myth was the true one.
Tipler’s science behind the Immaculate Conception involves his theory that evil was implanted in our genes (his version of the Fall) in the distant past. Jesus and Mary would both, according to Tipler, be free of this genetic evil. Here Tiper returns to the Shroud of Turin: Since Jesus and Mary would share the same genome on my XX male theory, if the genes were absent from Jesus’ genome, they would be absent from Mary’s. Jesus would indeed have been conceived immaculately. A DNA search of the Shroud for the X-chromasome gene just mentioned would be the first step. If this gene were indeed involved in our tendency to commit evil, we would expect to see this gene modified from the human norm in the Shroud DNA. In fact, if the evil gene is connected to bone generation, the amelogenin gene, which codes for the generation of teeth, might be entirely absent from Jesus’ genome both in its X form and in its Y form. If so, this gene would be absent from the DNA in the Shroud of Turin if this artifact is genuine. If the Christian tradition that the Fall affected the entire animal kingdom is correct, we would expect to see a similar evil gene complex present in all animals, presumably in the chromosome coding for the sex differentiation.
Moving on to the Resurrection, Tipler claims that skeptics haven’t made a strong case against it. One could also argue that skeptics haven’t made a strong case against the existence of giant sea serpents. The fallacy in both statements is that it is virtually impossible to prove a negative. Those arguing for the validity of either sea serpents or the Resurrection are the ones bearing the burden of proof. The skeptic’s job then is to examine the evidence to see if it can be either verified or falsified.
Tipler goes back to the Shroud of Turin for actual proof. He then compounds this offense with a whole section devoted to the idea that the Shroud is the actual Holy Grail. This is simply nonsense. The Grail is the invention of medieval writers, specifically the French poet Chretien de Troyes, who wrote his Grail story ca. 1180, the Burgundian Robert de Borron and the German Wolfram von Eschenbach, both writing in the early 1200s. Tipler is really reaching to try to make the source of the Grail stories the Shroud of Turin, which wasn’t even known to exist until after the Grail stories had been written.