1 in 3 'Christians' says 'Jesus sinned'
Barna poll shows adults develop their own beliefs
By Bob Unruh
© 2009 WorldNetDaily
Half of Americans who call themselves "Christian" don't believe Satan exists and fully one-third are confident that Jesus sinned while on Earth, according to a new Barna Group poll.
Another 40 percent say they do not have a responsibility to share their Christian faith with others, and 25 percent "dismiss the idea that the Bible is accurate in all of the principles it teaches," the organization reports.
Pollster George Barna said the results have huge implications.
"Americans are increasingly comfortable picking and choosing what they deem to be helpful and accurate theological views and have become comfortable discarding the rest of the teachings in the Bible," he said.
"Growing numbers of people now serve as their own theologian-in-residence," he continued. "One consequence is that Americans are embracing an unpredictable and contradictory body of beliefs."
The results are a dramatic departure from the nation's foundings, when leaders held prayer meetings in the halls of Congress and attributed to Almighty God the victory in the Revolutionary War.
Barna noted the millions of people who describe themselves as Christian and believe Jesus sinned, or those who say they will experience eternal salvation because they confessed their sins and accepted Christ as their savior, "but also believe that a person can do enough good works to earn eternal salvation."
Barna's private, non-partisan, for-profit research group in Ventura, Calif., has been studying cultural trends since 1984. For this study, the organization randomly sampled 1,004 adults across the continental U.S. The study has a margin of error of 3.2 percent at the 95 percent confidence level.
For the study, "born-again Christians" were defined as people who said they had made a personal commitment to Jesus Christ that was still important in their life today and who also indicated they believed that when they die they will go to heaven because they had confessed their sins and had accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. The results highlight the significant shift in beliefs held by Americans, the study said.
"For much of America's history, the assumption was that if you were born in America, you would affiliate with the Christian faith," the report said. Now however, "half of all adults now contend that Christianity is just one of many options that Americans choose from and that a huge majority of adults pick and choose what they believe rather than adopt a church or denomination's slate of beliefs."
Fifty percent of Americans believe Christianity no longer has a lock on people's hearts. Two-thirds of evangelical Christians (64 percent) and three out of every five Hispanics (60 percent) embraced that position, making them the groups most convinced of the shift in America's default faith.
In contrast, the poll showed the importance of belief was growing along with the number of options about what to believe.
"By an overwhelming margin – 74 percent to 23 percent – adults agreed that their religious faith was becoming even more important to them than it used to be as a source of objective and reliable moral guidance."
Forty percent of respondents who do not affiliate with Christianity confirmed the increasing influence of their beliefs.
The result "underscored the fact that people no longer look to denominations or churches to offer a slate of theological views that the individual adopts in its entirety," the report said.
By a margin of 71 percent to 26 percent adults "noted that they are personally more likely to develop their own set of religious beliefs than to accept a comprehensive set of beliefs taught by a particular church," the report said.
Nearly two-thirds of "born again Christians" adopted that stance.
"In the past, when most people determined their theological and moral points of view, the alternatives from which they chose were exclusively of Christian options - e.g., the Methodist point of view, the Baptist perspective, Catholic teaching, and so forth," Barna noted. "Today, Americans are more likely to pit a variety of non-Christian options against various Christian-based views. This has resulted in an abundance of unique worldviews based on personal combinations of theology drawn from a smattering of world religions such as Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism, and Islam as well as secularism."
By Bob Unruh
© 2009 WorldNetDaily
Half of Americans who call themselves "Christian" don't believe Satan exists and fully one-third are confident that Jesus sinned while on Earth, according to a new Barna Group poll.
Another 40 percent say they do not have a responsibility to share their Christian faith with others, and 25 percent "dismiss the idea that the Bible is accurate in all of the principles it teaches," the organization reports.
Pollster George Barna said the results have huge implications.
"Americans are increasingly comfortable picking and choosing what they deem to be helpful and accurate theological views and have become comfortable discarding the rest of the teachings in the Bible," he said.
"Growing numbers of people now serve as their own theologian-in-residence," he continued. "One consequence is that Americans are embracing an unpredictable and contradictory body of beliefs."
The results are a dramatic departure from the nation's foundings, when leaders held prayer meetings in the halls of Congress and attributed to Almighty God the victory in the Revolutionary War.
Barna noted the millions of people who describe themselves as Christian and believe Jesus sinned, or those who say they will experience eternal salvation because they confessed their sins and accepted Christ as their savior, "but also believe that a person can do enough good works to earn eternal salvation."
Barna's private, non-partisan, for-profit research group in Ventura, Calif., has been studying cultural trends since 1984. For this study, the organization randomly sampled 1,004 adults across the continental U.S. The study has a margin of error of 3.2 percent at the 95 percent confidence level.
For the study, "born-again Christians" were defined as people who said they had made a personal commitment to Jesus Christ that was still important in their life today and who also indicated they believed that when they die they will go to heaven because they had confessed their sins and had accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. The results highlight the significant shift in beliefs held by Americans, the study said.
"For much of America's history, the assumption was that if you were born in America, you would affiliate with the Christian faith," the report said. Now however, "half of all adults now contend that Christianity is just one of many options that Americans choose from and that a huge majority of adults pick and choose what they believe rather than adopt a church or denomination's slate of beliefs."
Fifty percent of Americans believe Christianity no longer has a lock on people's hearts. Two-thirds of evangelical Christians (64 percent) and three out of every five Hispanics (60 percent) embraced that position, making them the groups most convinced of the shift in America's default faith.
In contrast, the poll showed the importance of belief was growing along with the number of options about what to believe.
"By an overwhelming margin – 74 percent to 23 percent – adults agreed that their religious faith was becoming even more important to them than it used to be as a source of objective and reliable moral guidance."
Forty percent of respondents who do not affiliate with Christianity confirmed the increasing influence of their beliefs.
The result "underscored the fact that people no longer look to denominations or churches to offer a slate of theological views that the individual adopts in its entirety," the report said.
By a margin of 71 percent to 26 percent adults "noted that they are personally more likely to develop their own set of religious beliefs than to accept a comprehensive set of beliefs taught by a particular church," the report said.
Nearly two-thirds of "born again Christians" adopted that stance.
"In the past, when most people determined their theological and moral points of view, the alternatives from which they chose were exclusively of Christian options - e.g., the Methodist point of view, the Baptist perspective, Catholic teaching, and so forth," Barna noted. "Today, Americans are more likely to pit a variety of non-Christian options against various Christian-based views. This has resulted in an abundance of unique worldviews based on personal combinations of theology drawn from a smattering of world religions such as Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism, and Islam as well as secularism."
19 comments:
Anything that makes WingNutDaily upset makes me happy. Hopefully this means that the Fundamentalists' political power will be non-existent in the next couple of generation. I know Fundamentalism is impossible to kill but it's good to see it marginalized.
Interesting.
It is also interesting that so many atheists believe in God or an "impersonal force", pray weekly, and believe in heaven.
According to the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life's monumental "U.S. Religious Landscape Survey" that was issued in June, 21% of self-proclaimed atheists believe in either a personal God or an impersonal force. Ten percent of atheists pray at least weekly and 12% believe in heaven.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122178219865054585.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
That would make them not atheists, I'm afraid, Layman.
“21% of self-proclaimed atheists believe in either a personal God or an impersonal force. Ten percent of atheists pray at least weekly and 12% believe in heaven.”
I’m sorry to have to break the news to you Layman, but any so called atheist who believes in a personal God is not an atheist at all no matter what they claim; much less any atheist who prayers to God or believes in heaven.
As I posted once before, any body can claim to be anything they want to be; but it’s up to the community that the claimant is stating to be a member of to decide if the individual is nothing more the a self made contradiction. As Stated
Oh, the irony of overlooked irony.
So it appears that a significant number of self-proclaimed atheists are not atheists. Is that your point? Is this something akin to the "no true atheist/Scotsman" fallacy?
Hey Harry, do you plan on replying to my response to your "challenge" to me?
Layman, this is why you are a theological “Layman”.
The American Hertiage Dictionary:
atheism noun 1. Disbief in or denial of the existence of God. 2. Godlessness.
atheist adj. One who denies the existence of God.
The word is formed from the Greek with the alpha (alpha-primitive) negating the word for god or theos.
The problem with your true Scotsman's theory is that he was never from Scotland, but is a native born Japanese who has never left the main island of Honshu and only has drunk shochu. But by your reasoning, the fact that a kimono and a kilt appear similar, Mr. Komotsu form Tokyo is really Mr. McGregor from Glasgow.
Harry,
You need to turn your irony-meter up.
And you ignored two of my questions.
First, does this mean that a substantial number of self-proclaimed atheists are in fact theists?
Second, are you going to reply to my response to your charges that I was deceitful and fabricating facts about my Josephus article?
Layman: "First, does this mean that a substantial number of self-proclaimed atheists are in fact theists?"
Layman, exactly what about my second to the last answer did you not understand?
Lets see, by your reasoning, there are no absolutes and subjective relativity rules as atheist can be theists. Odd; since most all Christians posting here would argue just the opposite!
Here again, by your flawed logic, I can honestly (without perjury) be a Ku-Klux-Klan member and support the Southern Poverty Law Center at the same time.
Great legal logic, Attorney Price!
McCall,
Perhaps my repeated references to "irony" have thrown you off.
To be clear, I do not think that one can be an atheist and believe in God. So do we agree then that this study tends to show that a substantial number of self-proclaimed atheists are in fact theists?
Also, you keep ignoring my other question:
Second, are you going to reply to my response to your charges that I was deceitful and fabricating facts about my Josephus article?
I think it only fair that you give me some response since you "challenged" me on this (despite never notifying me of the challenge) and accused me of deceit and fabrication of facts.
So do we agree then that this study tends to show that a substantial number of self-proclaimed atheists are in fact theists?
Mr. Price,
Can AC current be DC current? Can an inductor be a capacitor and vice visa? If they deviate from the stated form and value, does industry consider them useful and correct?
As to your Josephus defense comment post, you got caught with your proverbial pants down and now you are in damage control mode.
You just might want to footnote Billy Graham on this issue too as I’m sure he thinks the Testimonium Flavianum is most all (if not all) original and he is well respected by most Christians too.
I’ll respond to your charges latter this week on my original Josephus post.
Latter Dude!
The last time I dealt with an attorney, he showed up in court with a Motion to Enforce I had no knowledge of.
The judge threw it out and I filed a compliant with the South Carolina Supreme Court.
That motion took him out of service for awhile.
McCall,
So that is a "yes" that many self-proclaimed atheists are actually theists? Do you have some rule about refusing to answer questions?
And to be clear about Josephus, the dispute is not over partial authenticity. I don't mind when underinformed skeptics disagree with me on that. I do mind when they accuse me of deceit and making up facts, especially when they claim that I misrepresent several scholars in one of my pieces. So please focus on the "challenge" you issued.
This means you will prove that Louis Feldman, Robert Funk, J.D. Crossan, E.P. Sanders, and Paula Fredrikson have not favored partial authenticity of the Testimonium?
The most probable view seems to be that our text represents substantially what Josephus wrote, but that some alterations have been made by a Christian interpolator.
Louis H. Feldman: Editor, Josephus, Jewish Antiquities Books XVIII- XIX, of The Loeb Classic Library, page 49.
Without them, Josephus' account is carefully and deliberately neutral. He does not want, apparently, to be embroiled in any controversy about this Jesus. . . . So he was cautiously impartial and some later Christian editor delicately Christianized his account, but only to the extent that it was at least plausible and credible for the Jewish Josephus to have written it.
J.D. Crossan, Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography, page 162.
Jesus' death at the hands of Pilate is "all but certain, because attested also by Josephus and Tacitus, two ancient historians, that: -There was a person named Jesus, who was executed by the authorities during the preference of Pontius Pilate (26-26 C.E.).
Robert Funk, The Acts of Jesus, page 133.
According to Josephus, Jesus was known as a sage who performed unusual deeds. he had a considerable following among both Judeans and Greeks. Those followers continued in their devotion to him after his death and formed a movement that took its name from him, a movement that was still in existence in Josephus' date late in the first century. While providing only a paucity of details, Josephus confirms the principal features otherwise attested of the historical Jesus.
R. Funk, Honest to Jesus, page 222.
It is highly likely that Josephus included Jesus in his account of the period. Josephus discussed John the Baptist and other prophetic figures, such as Theudas and the Egyptian. Further, the passage on Jesus is not adjacent to Josephus' account of John the Baptist, which is probably where a Christian scribe would have put it had he invented the whole paragraph. Thus, the author of the only surviving history of Palestinian Judaism in the first century thought that Jesus was important enough to merit a paragraph, no more, no less.
E.P. Sanders, The Historical Figure of Jesus, page 50.
Scholars have debated the historical merits of this passage, some (few, now) maintaining that the whole is authentic, others (another minority), that the whole is a Christian interpolation, that is a passage written into the manuscript by a later Christian scribe. Most scholars currently incline to see the passage as basically authentic, with a few later insertions by a Christian scribe. The passage rendered below follows the editorial judgments and English translation of John Meier . . . I give the Christian insertions in italics, the Josephan substratum in roman. . . .
Paula Fredrikson, Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews, page 249.
You will also prove that Louis Feldman did not report that the majority of studies of the Testimonium have favored authenticity of some sort?
You will then prove that I claimed that Feldman stated the Tetsimonium -- not the second reference to James as I claim was stated -- "has been almost universally acknowledged"?
It is ironic that you play the attorney card right up front. Usually Loftus waits to play that a few posts comments in. In any event, it is doubly ironic that you complained of someone filing a complaint against you without notice and you issued your "challenge" to me without any notice. Nice.
Price, “So that is a "yes" that many self-proclaimed atheists are actually theists? Do you have some rule about refusing to answer questions?”
You can drop your loaded question. The very fact you must have a Yes or No tells me you must think I’m stupid enough to give you what you want, plus the fact you have NOT answered mine yet, also confirms the fact! So you can move on because that little game of your’s is over with me!
As for your statements on the Testimonium Flavianum, I’ll let you twist in the wind before I'll attack.
So, you'll just have to wait as I bide my time and mount my attack.
Mean while, tell your Christian cheer leading groupies to come on over to DC and play apologist or do they know how to?
Wow, Harry. I'm truly impressed.
Since the Testimonium Flavianum post was written Nov. 29, ‘08 and not with Price’s webpage in mind (I only commented on it as an after thought in response to a question by John Loftus), I will post a new topic here at DC focusing on Christopher Price’s Josephus Testimonium web page and his subjective and misleading use of scholars and scholarship. I hope to have this out in two weeks.
Harry,
I already see some movement on your part. No longer was I "deceitful" and "fabricating" facts. Now I am "subjective" and "misleading." Unflattering accusations, to be sure, but you are giving yourself a lot more wiggle room.
You are of course free to write about the full scope of my article, but my immediate concern was your "challenge" that I back up my representations of certain scholars, as I have done.
Layman: Don’t jump to conclusions as you did in your Josephus website study.
Lets be objective here. misleading adj, 1. Tending to mislead; deceptive. (The American Heritage Dictionary)
Stay tuned; it's coming!
So it appears that a significant number of self-proclaimed atheists are not atheists. Is that your point? Is this something akin to the "no true atheist/Scotsman" fallacy?
Nope; there is a single, coherent definition of atheist. People who claim to be an atheist while simultaneously claiming to believe in god(s) either don't understand what an atheist is or are lying.
Different people have different definitions of Christian, and a person's definition of Christian often changes depending on their need. For example, certain Evangelicals will gladly use a very inclusive definition of Christian to pad their numbers when they are arguing that the US is a "Christian nation". In the next breath, they will use a very exclusive definition of Christian to prevent association with unsavory self-proclaimed Christians. It's the fluid definition that is the "no True Scotsman" fallacy.
The 2008 Pew survey cited the total "people who don't believe in God" (including God as an impersonal force of some kind) as 5%, while they listed self-identified atheists at 1.6%. So, the numbers of atheists in America is considerably higher than the number of self-identified atheists.
A special word of "thanks" to all the atheists who "continually" prove just how valid the Bible really is by their so-called non-belief.
I've seen posts from atheists (and other non-believers, and some who left the faith) that say, "I've wanted to believe but there was too much stopping me from doing so, the everyday cares of this world, suffering going on around us, etc." but does all of this 'prove that God and Jesus don't exist? Not by what I've seen it doesn't. One of the almost greatest lies and tricks satan (yeah I know you don't believe in him either)has perpetrated on folks like you is telling you that 'they' don't exist and sadly you've fallen for it big time.
Have any of you even attempted to truly search out God/Jesus for yourself, but putting your 'pre-conceived' notions and fantasies of what 'you' think 'they' should and should not be aside, in order to get to 'know' (in your heart and mind) the real God/Jesus? They make themselves available to ALL who wish to know them, even for things we don't understand. If former atheists like Josh Stroebel, who was a deep-seeded atheist, could finally put 'themselves' out of the picture, in order to come to the knowledge of who the true and living God and Jesus Christ are, then what exactly is stopping you? While there's breath left in your body, there's still hope for you to get to 'know' them before it's too late. They're holding out their arms waiting for you to come and fellowship with them, won't you give them a chance? We hope and pray that you will.
You've done just like God/Jesus said you'd do by "trying" to prove they don't exist, now when you lay down to close your eyes and leave this earth for good, and meet 'them' face to face we'll see just how much you 'think' you knew.
A truly sad state of affairs for us so-called humans. You have my earnest sympathies. God help and have mercy on you all.
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