I can't disagree with any of what I just read. But it isn't anything that most Christians didn't already know or have heard said from the pulpit. I'm embarrassed and saddened by this but it is what it is.
But don't you think that even God knew this? Jesus tells the story of how 2 religious guys walk right by some poor sap who was half dead and did nothing. Then the Samaritan came by and helped out where he could. This Samaritan could have been an Atheist. (He wasn't because of Luke 10:25)
I guess I need to figure out if I should congratulate all the Atheists or call out all the Christians.
When fundamentalists typically catalogue the sinful they usually start their list with the atheists, followed by rapists and child molesters. The claim that there can be no morality without god is a common one, as is the charge that atheists deny god so they can lead sinful lives without guilt.
I don't know about the pulpits you listen to, but my experience has very much corresponded to the idea of atheism as the exemplar of immorality.
Jesus tells the story of how 2 religious guys walk right by some poor sap who was half dead and did nothing. Then the Samaritan came by and helped out where he could. This Samaritan could have been an Atheist. (He wasn't because of Luke 10:25)
No, he wasn't an atheist (no need for caps) because Samaritans were kinda like Jewish heretics--they either would have had an unusual variant of Judaism or would have been Hellenized like many of the Jews of that time. Luke 10:25 has nothing to do with it.
I guess I need to figure out if I should congratulate all the Atheists or call out all the Christians.
I would argue "neither". Which is most likely:
A) Christians have a superior moral foundation to atheists, yet Christians manage to act exactly poorly enough to match their behavior B) Christians have a superior moral foundation to atheists, yet atheists manage to morally overacheive exactly enough to match Christians' behavior C) Both Christians and atheists have the same basic foundation for their morality, and tend to morally adhere to that foundation to equal extents.
Maybe I've led a sheltered life, and you atheists might make my top ten list, but I'd never compare you with child molesters or rapists.
Shy
I can agree with you here again. But it's kinda ironic that this article is about there not being a real difference in the behavior of Christians V. Atheists. And I think that Atheists are just as judgemental and self-righteuos as us "fundies". Go figure.
I have, yes, literally had people say that there was no possible way I could know that molesting a child was the wrong thing to do... Or that there was nothing stopping me from murdering/raping, etc.
Honestly, I just tell them that if their faith in god is all that is keeping them from raping me, then I always want to stay far away from them, because I don't want to be around if they snap.
Enlightening article. I've said it before: Bad ambassadors we often make for our lords, even if such be ourselves or a deity. That being said, there is also a cumulative historical behavior that must be considered if the perspective is to be complete and honest. Once we get the usual cliche Crusade Inquisition witch burning Calvinistic atrocities out of the way (no - I do not make light or think light of those terrible abberations) of historical excuses, the historical cumulative behavior of Christian organizations far outweigh all other worldview contributions to the planet. Perfection? Far from it. Personal lives a mess as much as anybody? Yes. But collectively: Who has built more private non-profit hospitals than anyone: a) Christian organizations b) Atheist organizations c) Other religious organizations Who has built more private non-profit orphanages? a) Christian organizations b) Atheist organizations c) Other religious organizations Who has built more private non-profit schools? a) Christian organizations b) Atheist organizations c) Other religious organizations Who is doing more to bring fresh water to parts of Africa? a) Christian organizations b) Atheist organizations c) Other religious organizations Who is doing more to fight the modern sex-slave trade? a) Christian organizations b) Atheist organizations c) Other religious organizations Who is doing more on a private non-profit basis to cope with the AIDS crisis? a) Christian organizations b) Atheist organizations c) Other religious organizations Who is doing more to prevent atrocities against minority religions, including the current abuses and executions against witches in the southern Pacific rim? a) Christian organizations b) Atheist organizations c) Other religious organizations What governments have done more to improve the quality of living among their nationalities and the world - majoritive Christian nations or Atheist-based? That is not a debate game the atheists want to start playing when they consider the 20th century atheist-based regimes and governments committed more atrocities than all of previous history combined. Does that excuse Christian historical abuse and current bad behavior? Absolutely not - but let's be honest about the perspective. Christians should own up to their failures, including this nation's sad horrific history of slavery, absence of women's suffrage, prejudice and hatred, especially when such abuses wrongly based upon Scriptural doctrine as excuses - but let's be honest about the perspective. Historically, the appeal to Scripture has resulted in social improvement far more than it has casued abuse - look at the life-long struggle of William Wilberforce against slavery, for example - a struggle based upon an appeal to Chritianity and right Christian behavior. Names like St. Matthew's St Mark's St. John's St. Luke's St. Paul's, St. Jude's Children's Hospital etc. cover this globe with human-lifting institutions of service and goodwill far more than any St. Stalin St. Hitler St. Pol Pot St. Mao. Does that excuse Christian historical abuse and current bad behavior? Absolutely not - but let's be honest about the perspective.
6 comments:
John
I can't disagree with any of what I just read. But it isn't anything that most Christians didn't already know or have heard said from the pulpit. I'm embarrassed and saddened by this but it is what it is.
But don't you think that even God knew this? Jesus tells the story of how 2 religious guys walk right by some poor sap who was half dead and did nothing. Then the Samaritan came by and helped out where he could. This Samaritan could have been an Atheist. (He wasn't because of Luke 10:25)
I guess I need to figure out if I should congratulate all the Atheists or call out all the Christians.
Peace out, feeno
feeno,
When fundamentalists typically catalogue the sinful they usually start their list with the atheists, followed by rapists and child molesters. The claim that there can be no morality without god is a common one, as is the charge that atheists deny god so they can lead sinful lives without guilt.
I don't know about the pulpits you listen to, but my experience has very much corresponded to the idea of atheism as the exemplar of immorality.
Regards,
-corn
Jesus tells the story of how 2 religious guys walk right by some poor sap who was half dead and did nothing. Then the Samaritan came by and helped out where he could. This Samaritan could have been an Atheist. (He wasn't because of Luke 10:25)
No, he wasn't an atheist (no need for caps) because Samaritans were kinda like Jewish heretics--they either would have had an unusual variant of Judaism or would have been Hellenized like many of the Jews of that time. Luke 10:25 has nothing to do with it.
I guess I need to figure out if I should congratulate all the Atheists or call out all the Christians.
I would argue "neither". Which is most likely:
A) Christians have a superior moral foundation to atheists, yet Christians manage to act exactly poorly enough to match their behavior
B) Christians have a superior moral foundation to atheists, yet atheists manage to morally overacheive exactly enough to match Christians' behavior
C) Both Christians and atheists have the same basic foundation for their morality, and tend to morally adhere to that foundation to equal extents.
I know which one I find to be most likely.
To Corn,
Maybe I've led a sheltered life, and you atheists might make my top ten list, but I'd never compare you with child molesters or rapists.
Shy
I can agree with you here again. But it's kinda ironic that this article is about there not being a real difference in the behavior of Christians V. Atheists. And I think that Atheists are just as judgemental and self-righteuos as us "fundies". Go figure.
Peace out, feeno
I have, yes, literally had people say that there was no possible way I could know that molesting a child was the wrong thing to do... Or that there was nothing stopping me from murdering/raping, etc.
Honestly, I just tell them that if their faith in god is all that is keeping them from raping me, then I always want to stay far away from them, because I don't want to be around if they snap.
Enlightening article. I've said it before: Bad ambassadors we often make for our lords, even if such be ourselves or a deity.
That being said, there is also a cumulative historical behavior that must be considered if the perspective is to be complete and honest. Once we get the usual cliche Crusade Inquisition witch burning Calvinistic atrocities out of the way (no - I do not make light or think light of those terrible abberations) of historical excuses, the historical cumulative behavior of Christian organizations far outweigh all other worldview contributions to the planet. Perfection? Far from it. Personal lives a mess as much as anybody? Yes. But collectively:
Who has built more private non-profit hospitals than anyone:
a) Christian organizations
b) Atheist organizations
c) Other religious organizations
Who has built more private non-profit orphanages?
a) Christian organizations
b) Atheist organizations
c) Other religious organizations
Who has built more private non-profit schools?
a) Christian organizations
b) Atheist organizations
c) Other religious organizations
Who is doing more to bring fresh water to parts of Africa?
a) Christian organizations
b) Atheist organizations
c) Other religious organizations
Who is doing more to fight the modern sex-slave trade?
a) Christian organizations
b) Atheist organizations
c) Other religious organizations
Who is doing more on a private non-profit basis to cope with the AIDS crisis?
a) Christian organizations
b) Atheist organizations
c) Other religious organizations
Who is doing more to prevent atrocities against minority religions, including the current abuses and executions against witches in the southern Pacific rim?
a) Christian organizations
b) Atheist organizations
c) Other religious organizations
What governments have done more to improve the quality of living among their nationalities and the world - majoritive Christian nations or Atheist-based? That is not a debate game the atheists want to start playing when they consider the 20th century atheist-based regimes and governments committed more atrocities than all of previous history combined.
Does that excuse Christian historical abuse and current bad behavior? Absolutely not - but let's be honest about the perspective. Christians should own up to their failures, including this nation's sad horrific history of slavery, absence of women's suffrage, prejudice and hatred, especially when such abuses wrongly based upon Scriptural doctrine as excuses - but let's be honest about the perspective. Historically, the appeal to Scripture has resulted in social improvement far more than it has casued abuse - look at the life-long struggle of William Wilberforce against slavery, for example - a struggle based upon an appeal to Chritianity and right Christian behavior. Names like St. Matthew's St Mark's St. John's St. Luke's St. Paul's, St. Jude's Children's Hospital etc. cover this globe with human-lifting institutions of service and goodwill far more than any St. Stalin St. Hitler St. Pol Pot St. Mao. Does that excuse Christian historical abuse and current bad behavior? Absolutely not - but let's be honest about the perspective.
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