Is God Really Good? Is Sinful Man Smarter Than God?
For a general discussion, I would like to pose the following question:
Is it morally and ethically right for sinful man to wipe an entire portion of God’s creation off the face of the earth and feel great about it?
Let’s see how you Christians answer this one! (Watch yourself! You just might back into a bee's nest here.)
Is it morally and ethically right for sinful man to wipe an entire portion of God’s creation off the face of the earth and feel great about it?
Let’s see how you Christians answer this one! (Watch yourself! You just might back into a bee's nest here.)
18 comments:
I’m going to see Angels and Demons tonight.
Latter.
No, I would say not to feel great about it. I wouldn't anyway. But, I think this is a very difficult, and thorny issue. There's no question that Christians are to go the extra mile to "turn the other cheek," and pursue peace.
But, what if in a fallen, broken world that's not always possible. Would it be wrong to use force, even lethal force if this were the only means to protect (save) innocent lives? Could this be the lesser of the evils?
What do you guys, think?
Disclaimer: I'm not a skilled debater at all. Can only discuss, and share ideas, thoughts, and my faith which I'm passionate about. :)
Harry,
You probably will!
Harvey,
If God’s creation of Smallpox is destroyed by sinful man (as it now appears to have been), is the world a better place without this creation of your God?
Should sinful man cry out to God for forgiveness of this destructive act on His creation?
And should God take the full blame for all the suffering He has caused with this part of his creation on humanity?
Grace,
Thanks for the in put, but this question has to do with God’s evil creations that have caused suffering and death on humanity for hundreds of thousands of years.
What Jesus called demons, we now know as evil created directly by God who is suppose to be loving and caring to afflict babies and children suffering and death.
In short, who needs Satan and demons when we have a God who created evil germs and viruses!
Harry
I'm thinking it is the pious man who feels that the world is going to end soon, and that god placed the world here for no better purpose than our consumption who might be the greater danger. This point of view has found it's way increasingly into the halls of power, and seems much more hazardous than the irreligious man who simply doesn't think or care.
While not ubiquitous to all of Christianity, it does seem to be a very Christian point of view, and it is one that makes non-Christians look at Christians as crazy death-cult people.
While I'm not a Christian, I have some Christian friends that I have put similar questions to. Their response typically is to blame illness and pestilence on the act of defiance by Adam and Eve resulting in the fall of creation, the devil's doing, or their god's intentional creation (often as a test or judgement) or divine patience. To them it makes no difference if their god is merely allowing evil to exist (though it's like a doctor refusing to treat a patient) or has brought such malevolence and destruction into being for whatever reason: They react with the apologist mantra, "God is good all the time."
Apparently they believe their god cannot do anything ~ or behave in any way ~ that is considered evil (Revelation 15:3, 16:7), even though they regard similar behavior on the part of the devil or people as proof that they are evil.
As far as destroying germs or eating animals, they simply quote verses like Genesis 1:28 and Acts 11:4-10. They go between thinking they need to rely on their god to perform a miracle through prayer, or accept the duty to clean up the world to please their god. But unfortunately, some Christians actually oppose treatment of certain illnesses, such as AIDS, because they believe these are judgments from their god.
In any case, to them if their god wills it, it's good, which explains why so many of them aren't bothered by the cruel heinous acts of their god in the bible. And when presented with the problem of evil, they at times respond, "We all deserve any misfortune that comes our way." Which always causes me to shake my head in amazement and disbelief!
Oh, sorry, Harry. I misunderstood the question. Loved angels, and demons. Very suspenseful. What a twist at the end.
But, I think no finite human is able to fully, and completely address this issue. On a deeper level you are asking, "Why does a loving God allow pain, and suffering in the world?"
My view is more toward theistic evolution than intelligent design, although I'm not entirely certain.
But, I feel the consequence of this evolutionary process God used to create human beings in the beginning of time, could also lead to, "the misspelling of a cancer gene during the normal process of cell division," or things like smallpox.
I suppose it's true that God could perform miracles in the natural realm to bring instantaneous healing, as well.
But, if in our time, He gives scientists knowledge, and wisdom to finally eradicate things like smallpox, that sounds good to me. :)
Does this make sense? Or, have I entirely missed the point of your question, again? God have mercy!
You sound like a very deep thinker, Harry.
Theistic evolution seems a poor answer to the problem. Why, after all, would a loving God bring life into being using a method that relied on so much suffering when he could simply have created life forms in an instant?
Its good that some religious people recognize evolution as a fact....but it simply adds to the weight of the problem of unnecessary suffering as an objection to the belief in a loving God.
A bit of a catch 22 for believers. Irrationally reject evolution or accept evolution and try to shoehorn it into consistency with theism.
Maybe if wiping out this portion of creation meant saving God's chosen people (or at least whom you chose), maybe then it would be ethically right.
But perhaps Christian apologists aren't as clever at dealing with these issues as I am. I think it would stump people who still retain a coherent ethical system.
Re Angels & Demons - I tried to read the book but the antimatter stuff was so far beyond mere implausibility that I would get worked into a mini rage every time he'd bring it up. Put the book down before even hitting the halfway point :)
Harry,
How do you define "morally and ethically right"?
That rather depends on what God's commands concerning that portion of creation are.
The pentateuch is very big on sanitation, which involves killing of germs, so I'd say that answers your smallpox question.
If you want to get into the details, you might try crafting a case that perhaps, the noetic effects of sin render 'sinful man' unable to understand God's commands. You might show that the commands are contradictory, but this just comes off as lazy.
You can't do a simple end-around like this. It's obviously not valid, as I'm sure even you would admit. Consider the following analogy. A police seargent may set up targets for his officers to destroy when they're training to operate fire arms, and there's nothing wrong with that. It would be wrong for them to destroy his office by setting fire to it. You see? There is nothing morally difficult or hypocritical about man destroying part of God's creation, if that is what he commands (ex. temple sacrifices commanding the slaughter of animals).
Tryo,
The movie relied too much on Catholic theology in an age where most people just don’t know that much or even care, plus the anti-matter thing.
The movie (out for only a week here) was already moved to the last smallest theater in a 16 theater cinema and most of the commits I hear were negative.
I think Dan Brown’s anti-Catholic sensations have run their course!
drp,
In that Genesis 1:31 states that everything God created was "good".
Does modern man have a right to destroy an entire section of this “good” (Hebrew “tov”) created by God?
I'm using eithics and morality in a Biblical sense in my question.
Thanks for your input here Grace.
That's the problem I've got in mind.
C. Andiron:
You assume not everything God created was good as Genesis 1:31 so clearly states.
Then you assume the ancient mind know what germs (and viruses) were before Louis Pasteur.
Please tell me what good is Rabies and Heart Worms? Did or did not God create them?
As to your purity food laws, please read this!
Fact is, until religion took a back seat to the modern science, humanity just accept sickness and death from God of the Devil.
As to your final point, I don’t follow you logic.
Harvey, it must be ethically right for man to wipe out the earth - after all, God already set the precedent with the flood!
Believers often cite the doctrine of "free will" to explain the existence of evil; that is insufficient. This merely rationalizes the control the powerful have over the weak. For instance: was it the free will of those led into the gas chambers in the Nazi concentration camps to have this happen, or was it that the SS had absolute control over their fate?
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