Oh, The Compassion of Conservative Christians
Saturday night (May 30) I headed to Lowes at 8:45 pm to pick up some electrical parts to complete a wiring job I had started on my motorcycle.
On the way back at 9:30 pm, I passed two SUV’s stopped in the right hand side of a 4 lane highway directly across from a large Southern Baptist Church which had apparently just let out as there was about 20 cars in the parking lot with about 30 or more people milling around and talking with about half staring at the stopped cars.
As I passed the SUV’s, I noticed an animal of some kind in front of the first SUV which then drove off. As I turned my motorcycle around, the second SUV also drove off over the animal (in between its tires).
I pulled up below the animal, I noticed it was a large house cat which was still breathing, but had blood coming out of its nose and right ear. Its right eye was crushed in as if the cat had been centered under the first SUV and its head had hit some part of the car’s frame.
I put my bikes emergency flashers on and carefully moved the cat to the sidewalk. There I left my motorcycle head lights on and I noticed the cat trying to get up and falling back down.
Being on a motorcycle, I had few options to help this gravely injured cat. I called my wife and told her to bring the Jeep and a blanket so we could carry it to the 24 hour Emergency Animal Hospital.
Although the church and its parking lot were filled with a good size crowd, other than staring and talking to each other, NO ONE offered to help, much less walk over to offer advice.
As I waited on my wife to arrive, about 5 cars left the church’s parking lot and drove passed me, the injured car and my motorcycle with only one even slowing down to “Rubber neck” the scene.
The cat finally got up and staggered into the woods ten feet and fell over.
An ambulance going the other way pulled up with strobe lights on and asked; “What was going on?”. I told them about the cat, and they offered to try an load it into my Jeep which had just pulled up followed by a county sheriff officer who also turned on his blue lights.
As they were catching the cat, two old women (in their early to mid 70’s) from the neighboring apartment complex came out. One identified the cat as “Mr. Smokes” and began crying in a panic. The second lady told her to stay back and told us the owner of the cat had had several heart attacks. Her friend said that if she saw Mr. Smokes in this condition, she might have another or even die.
So, now we have an EMS ambulance and county sheriff patrol car with red, white and blue strobes filling the night sky; and old lady yelling and crying about her pet cat of 12 years and a church parking lot full of Christians.
After the medics got the cat load into my Jeep, the two elderly women begged me to take Mr. Smokes to be euthanized as they had no car.
At the Emergency Animal Clinic, I told the nurses about the tow elderly women and that, if the cat could be treated, I would pay up to $500.00 to help the woman who love the cat.
However, once the doctor examined Mr. Smokes, he said it had severe head injures and its brain was starting to swell. With the owners permission, I signed the papers to have the cat euthanized.
So, just what did these Jesus loving and lost soul caring Southern Baptist church members do….NOTHING! (It was kind of like the time when Jesus was on the Cross; they watch form afar!)
The next day, I told my brother about the situation and the useless church members standing there 500 feet away who never once offered to help.
He said that’s pare for the course. That they were typical church members patting themselves on the back and congratulating one another for being saved.
Anyway for them: It was just a damn cat and the two old ladies (Hell, they probably weren’t even saved!). So why should Jesus care (WWJD)!!
Anyway, as an atheist, I DID AND STILL DO!
On the way back at 9:30 pm, I passed two SUV’s stopped in the right hand side of a 4 lane highway directly across from a large Southern Baptist Church which had apparently just let out as there was about 20 cars in the parking lot with about 30 or more people milling around and talking with about half staring at the stopped cars.
As I passed the SUV’s, I noticed an animal of some kind in front of the first SUV which then drove off. As I turned my motorcycle around, the second SUV also drove off over the animal (in between its tires).
I pulled up below the animal, I noticed it was a large house cat which was still breathing, but had blood coming out of its nose and right ear. Its right eye was crushed in as if the cat had been centered under the first SUV and its head had hit some part of the car’s frame.
I put my bikes emergency flashers on and carefully moved the cat to the sidewalk. There I left my motorcycle head lights on and I noticed the cat trying to get up and falling back down.
Being on a motorcycle, I had few options to help this gravely injured cat. I called my wife and told her to bring the Jeep and a blanket so we could carry it to the 24 hour Emergency Animal Hospital.
Although the church and its parking lot were filled with a good size crowd, other than staring and talking to each other, NO ONE offered to help, much less walk over to offer advice.
As I waited on my wife to arrive, about 5 cars left the church’s parking lot and drove passed me, the injured car and my motorcycle with only one even slowing down to “Rubber neck” the scene.
The cat finally got up and staggered into the woods ten feet and fell over.
An ambulance going the other way pulled up with strobe lights on and asked; “What was going on?”. I told them about the cat, and they offered to try an load it into my Jeep which had just pulled up followed by a county sheriff officer who also turned on his blue lights.
As they were catching the cat, two old women (in their early to mid 70’s) from the neighboring apartment complex came out. One identified the cat as “Mr. Smokes” and began crying in a panic. The second lady told her to stay back and told us the owner of the cat had had several heart attacks. Her friend said that if she saw Mr. Smokes in this condition, she might have another or even die.
So, now we have an EMS ambulance and county sheriff patrol car with red, white and blue strobes filling the night sky; and old lady yelling and crying about her pet cat of 12 years and a church parking lot full of Christians.
After the medics got the cat load into my Jeep, the two elderly women begged me to take Mr. Smokes to be euthanized as they had no car.
At the Emergency Animal Clinic, I told the nurses about the tow elderly women and that, if the cat could be treated, I would pay up to $500.00 to help the woman who love the cat.
However, once the doctor examined Mr. Smokes, he said it had severe head injures and its brain was starting to swell. With the owners permission, I signed the papers to have the cat euthanized.
So, just what did these Jesus loving and lost soul caring Southern Baptist church members do….NOTHING! (It was kind of like the time when Jesus was on the Cross; they watch form afar!)
The next day, I told my brother about the situation and the useless church members standing there 500 feet away who never once offered to help.
He said that’s pare for the course. That they were typical church members patting themselves on the back and congratulating one another for being saved.
Anyway for them: It was just a damn cat and the two old ladies (Hell, they probably weren’t even saved!). So why should Jesus care (WWJD)!!
Anyway, as an atheist, I DID AND STILL DO!
40 comments:
I hear ya. I'm the same way. Saw a guy walking up the road, pushing his bicyle one day. He was wearing cleats (duck walking too) so I know that couldn't be easy. I stopped and offered him a ride after about 15 people drove past him.
Harry
I didn't know the Good Samaritan rode a Harley?
Anyways I'm surprised you didn't tell us that it was the Baptist Minister who swerved over 2 lanes just to hit the cat.
But, mad props to you, feeno
Harry,
I'm a lurker here, but I had to comment. This story breaks my heart. Thanks for trying to take care of that kitty, and thanks for caring about those poor women.
Based on many of the Christians I know, I agree with Feeno.
Black Sheep
Good story.
I'm an atheist and an animal lover, and this story is heartbreaking. But I don't think it tells us much about conservative Christians (if we're looking for examples of their compassion, better to examine, say, their reaction to Dr Tiller's murder).
Help for the suffering is something that is sadly lacking too often among humans, and by no means easily divisible by religious affiliation.
That said, thanks for doing what you could for the cat. If only more people would be so charitable.
There is something fundamentally wrong when a so-called Christian has to spin themselves as "compassionate".
One would have thought that compassion and Christian would have gone together without having to specify such.
I hate it when an animal gets injured and I appreciate anyone who is willing to help. Kudos to you sir!
I'm sure there are Christians who would help and Christians who wouldn't. I'm also sure there are atheists who would and atheists who wouldn't.
I try to treat people as individuals and not stereotype them by the circles they run in.
They were probably too busy congratulating themselves on the death of the abortion doctor to even notice. Give them a break.
I'm sure you don't want to broadcast your whereabouts, Harry, but in your place, I'd be sorely tempted to give this some more publicity.
Every hypocrite there needs to see their church's name plastered all over the web.
Their greatest commandment tells them to love their neighbor as themselves - and I'd just love to see them publicly weasel out and say, "but it was only a cat."
But this also surprises me in some ways, because I think most Christians I know would have stopped. One girl I know once intervened to save a dog that was being abused by a couple of punks at school, and gave it to her mother, when she couldn't find out whom it belonged to.
And think about this: all hope isn't lost for the hypocrite.
Hypocrisy implies that there's a standard to be hypocritical *about*, which can be used to shame the hypocrite into changing.
(That's the all but forgotten purpose of "taking communion," which was supposed to force the believer to publicly declare whether or not there was something in his life that he knew wasn't right, because it wasn't supposed
to be taken if there was.)
Nobody would write or take seriously, "an animal was suffering in a gang-infested neighborhood and nobody helped. I was so shocked..."
I'm extremely surprised by this story and believe it has to be just something about that church. I am an atheist, but I grew up southern baptist. I know that if this had happened at my former church, they would have gotten the vet that attends to begin emergency care, the kids would have been crying, the pracher would have had an official prayer for the cat, and it would have been a huge to-do.
Thanks for the comments and hearing from other animal lover.
After the Southern Baptist fired all their women professors teaching at all their seminaries along with all women professors of religion teaching at all their colleges and universities, I was especially watchful to see if any Bible Believing Southern Baptist would help.
Remember people, this happen not more than 500 feet to where these Baptist were gathered. This was not at some random road side stop.
I wrote this post with the situation in mind that happen to me 15 years ago.
My neighbors, both Bob Jones University graduates (He works at the Salvation Army), rang my door bell one Sunday morning with a four year old crying little girl. He explained that the parents had been gone for over a day and that she had wondered over to their house this morning hungry and wanting some food.
He told me they were already late for church and just did have time to feed her. They asked if my wife and I could help her (Which we did).
In the cat case, I would not have wanted any of those conservative Southern Baptist to get their Sunday-Go-to-Meeting clothes soiled. (Although fancy high price clothes are a sure sign of carnality, I know Jesus enjoys their Sunday best!)
Forget all those saying of Jesus in the Gospels. I think the best and most comprehensive statement on kindness I ever hear was published in a small local news paper in 1974 over a question the editor asked for readers to responded to: What is kindness?
A 10 year old boy responded: Kindness is stropping to move a turtle out of the road when you could have run over it.
The Beatitudes can't even touch this!
PS:
feeno, Do you have some thing against me? If not, then why are you cussing me with words like Harley Davidson? (I ride a Honda GL 1800 Gold Wing. LOL)
It is too bad that the Baptist church you were outside didn't help. But there are many reasons why your outrage are misplaced.
1. The moral subjectivism of atheism, which you may try to explain away with your own need to recognize objective morals, means that you have little objective grounds to judge anyone else.
In fact, maybe, since they are just bags of chemicsls with no free will, they were doing what they had to. Why blame them?
2. While you may want to 'judge them by their fruits,' that's no excuse for rejecting the claims of Christ. Not that you would 'hide behind hypocrites,' but um, just because they don't do it has more to do with human nature and religion than whether or not xianity is true.
In fact, you claim, tongue in cheek, to 'do what Jesus would do.' But like Jesus said to the Pharisees, if you really were children of Abraham (and followers of Jesus), you would believe (in) Him. So I guess you aren't REALLY doing what Jesus would do, or what he would really want you to do.
3. I thought you argued that people who engage in such rants were really beneath talking to? Pot kettle black?
4. I hope that you are pro life. If you would allow an unborn child to die, and yet have compassion for a cat, um, perhaps your compassion is a little warped, as well as your indignation.
>> HARRY: Kindness is stopping to move a turtle out of the road when you could have run over it. The Beatitudes can't even touch this!
Um, you obviously don't understand the beatitudes. Superficial sentiments, as sweet as they are, don't hold a candle to the depth and profundity of the Beatitudes.
They speak of the process of true humility (broken in spirit because of their guilt) who then seek for righteousness and to do good. And they speak of God who fights for the weak. And they hold the promise of a life to come.
But if you think saving turtles from suffering is so sublime, perhaps mother Theresa should have spent her life preventing road kills instead of alleviating the suffering of humans. Some people really do think that humans are just animals and parasites anyway, so maybe in that view, saving turtles clearly excels the Beatitudes.
Get real.
>>>1. The moral subjectivism of atheism, which you may try to explain away with your own need to recognize objective morals, means that you have little objective grounds to judge anyone else.
Compassionate people don't check to see if they have a philosophical foundation for morality or compassion; they just do it. Its a gut thing.
>> ANDRE: Compassionate people don't check to see if they have a philosophical foundation for morality or compassion; they just do it. Its a gut thing.
Andre, I totally agree. I also agree that religion often stultifies our compassion rather than developing it. However, I also remark that according to such studies as that discussed in the book Who Really Cares, as it turns out, Christians contribute more of their time and money to both Christian AND non-Christian causes than secularists, so I'd say that such anecdotal stories as the one John relayed, while reflecting a true trend among religionists, may not be damning when it comes to Christianity in general.
Aditionally, as an evangelical, I have myself railed against fundamentalism as putrefied by some bad theology and religionism.
But again, I only mentioned that John may not have philosophical ground to stand on because, as a good atheist, he doesn't merely 'go with his gut' (in theory), but with logic, and logic seems to dictate that atheists have little ground for objective moral judgments on others.
I mention this because I think that one of the best objections to atheism is that, along with the assertion that atheism must logically abandon objective morality, in real life, atheists live as if such things actually exist.
As Bill Craig has posited in his sylogism of the moral argument for God, atheists agree with the first principle (by agreeing with its inverse) break rule #2 below:
1. If objective morals exist, God exists (inverse: If no God exists, morality is subjective)
2. Objective morals exist.
3. Therefore, God exists.
I am sure this is old ground for somone like John, but I can't sit by and let him make such attacks on 'Christians' as if he has the philosophical foundation or the intellectual consistency in either atheism or his own writings and previous claims, to do so.
Bill Craig's 'objective morality' argument can be applied to other fields, and shown up for what it is.
Some head coaches in football like running plays more than passing plays.
Some head coaches in football like to build their team around 4 good wide-recievers.
Because this is all subjective, only theists can criticise a coach for calling a running play on 4th and 23, when their team is backed up on their own 2 yard line.
Without a Big Golden Book of Objective Football Plays, written by a God, what right do people have to criticise a head coach who tells his quarterback to fumble the ball on every play?
This is exactly the sort of utterly absurd logic that Christians are using when they say that atheists have no right to say something is objectively wrong.
Harry, when it comes to the Darwinian problem of animal suffering, David Wood told me he just didn't care for animals. They don't matter much to God. Only people and their salvation matters.
This doesn't represent all Christians, but it does for most of them, the ones who think they were given a harsh dominion mandate to rule over them.
To see what the Bible says about this click here.
Danielg,
Part 1
“The moral subjectivism of atheism, which you may try to explain away with your own need to recognize objective morals, means that you have little objective grounds to judge anyone else.”
RE: So with 20,000 Christian sects all believing they have all the truth (that’s why they were formed), you really think Christianity is objective?
Tell me danielg, when was the last time even two Protestants,; say a Lutheran and a Baptist exchanged pulpits? I was a Lutheran for 25 years and it never happened.
An now you claim Christianity is objective? Fact is, with all the rich televangelist living often as billionaires and many going to prison for RIS tax evasion, I don’t see any objectivity here.
Please danielg, name just one famous televangelist who “objectively” let someone other than a family member take over his ministry.
You might start with Billy Graham who gave it to his son Franklin who now has his son being readied to live the good life of tithes and offerings.
Fact is, this ministries are not God lead organizations, but subjective dynasties!
“While you may want to 'judge them by their fruits,' that's no excuse for rejecting the claims of Christ. Not that you would 'hide behind hypocrites,' but um, just because they don't do it has more to do with human nature and religion than whether or not xianity is true.”
People are people. I’ve NEVER hear a sermon preach defending animals. Yet Yahweh need their unblemished bodies and blood to make him happy in the Hebrew Bible.
As for as the objective truth of Christianity goes; tell that to the next Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses that ring your door bell. Hey, may you could let them teach you Sunday school class.
“In fact, you claim, tongue in cheek, to 'do what Jesus would do.' But like Jesus said to the Pharisees, if you really were children of Abraham (and followers of Jesus), you would believe (in) Him.”
RE: John 8:44 set the standard of Christian violent attacks on the Jewish people. If you think every thing Jesus said is OBJECTIVLY original with him, let me know. Igot a number of Gospels verses you need to explain.
“I thought you argued that people who engage in such rants were really beneath talking to? Pot kettle black?”
RE: OK, lets talk objectivity here. I’ve got a good memory, so please quote the post with date!
danielg,
Part 2
“I hope that you are pro life. If you would allow an unborn child to die, and yet have compassion for a cat, um, perhaps your compassion is a little warped, as well as your indignation.”
RE: Pro Life…What is Pro Life? Are you a Hindu? Do you eat meat? Or are you just SUBJECTIVLY Pro life when it comes to fetuses only and fully support a nuclear military.
I’ll support the outlawing of all abortions when all Catholic and evangelical churches are required (under the penalty of law) TO ACCEPT EVERY UNWANTED CHILD born in the United Stated and rise that child until the legal age of 18.
Now danielg, put your Pro Life “Objectivity” where you mouth is.
You Pro Life Christians could vastly increase your numbers and the Kingdom of God as well.
You Pro Lifers need to step up to the plate and take ALL these babies to raise or shut the hell up!
You people want a secular government to support financially what you Christians are not willing or can not do. Do you know how to spell: Hypocrisy?
If your Pro Life God is sooo good, then he needs to supply the love, food and medical care in Africa, India and Bangladesh or he needs to accepted the fact he just doesn’t not give a damn.
“Um, you obviously don't understand the beatitudes. Superficial sentiments, as sweet as they are, don't hold a candle to the depth and profundity of the Beatitudes.
They speak of the process of true humility (broken in spirit because of their guilt) who then seek for righteousness and to do good. And they speak of God who fights for the weak. And they hold the promise of a life to come.”
RE: The editorial question was again: What is kindness?
Kindness is universal and not theological. If Christian doctrines were so true as you preach, than the murder of so called heretics, witches and Holy Wars would not have been a reality.
As for as Mother Theresa goes, her end of life confession about whether a loving God existed are very revealing.
In her own words, she said she faced death in a spiritual darkness. Plus, as she saved the lives of vegetarian Hindus, she save animals too!
Thanks John. I'll check it out.
Harry
If an unborn human is expendable, so is an animal.
By the way, John, do you eat meat or are you a vegetarian?
I have a similar story.
I gave bone marrow to an anonymous recipient in 2004. The treatment worked and the recipient lived. After a year had passed the recipient and I were allowed to exchange contact information. It turned out that my marrow went to a 4 year old boy. The boys mother sent my wife and I a heart wrenching letter of thanks.
My wife and I attend church though I am an atheist. During one of the services my wife got up and read the letter from the boys mother. After she finished I stood up and offered to relay my experience with the donor program and provide any assistance with persons wanting to participate. Not one in a congregation of 100+ spoke with me about participating. The only comments I did receive were along the lines of how they COULDN'T participate due to the pain involved or dread of hospitals.
It boggles the mind. These same people months earlier stood in line for hours for free tickets to see The Passion of the Christ.
Goldstein,
John did not post this topic.
Yes, I eat meat…Let go to Out Back!
Rex,
In 1969 (long before there was a organ donor mark on the driver's license) I donated my eyes, upon my death, at the Lion Club.
When I went to Bob Jones University in 1971, I had a number of Bible Majors try and talk be out of the eye donation. Their reason was that at the Resurrection, I would not have any eyes!
In 1999, I gave a kidney to my 14 year old daughter. When I asked several Christians if they would be an organ donor upon their death, they said “no” because doctors will take you organs before your are dead.
Salvation is about the greed of getting; it’s about self.
Organ donation is about giving; giving of yourself.
Anyway Rex, you did a great thing in that you factually did more for humanity than Jesus ever could!
Danielg or anyone else who claims that objective morality depends on the existence of a god is just plain wrong and provably so.
Contrary to popular belief, human relationships ARE governed by natural laws just as surely as we are governed by the law of gravity. Actions have consequences.
Objective morality can be stated as a set of simple axioms derived from the nature of humans as rational beings.
It would be difficult to get into the details here but for more information on this topic, I would highly recommend a couple of excellent books, both downloadable in pdf format:
"Universally Preferable Behavior: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics" by Stefan Molyneux.
"The Market For Liberty" by Morris & Linda Tannehill.
I would highly recommend both for theists and atheists alike and would be glad to discuss off-line via email with anybody who wishes to read either or both.
That last thing about not having eyes at the resurrection is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard come from Christians.
That must have been an easy argument to win.
From their perspective, would they have said that people disfigured in a fire would be just as messed up upon the resurrection?
And by the time that blessed event would have come to pass, wouldn't your eyes have rotted away anyway?
Do they believe in embalming their deceased? That may slow down the rotting some, but any body resurrected even only weeks later (if they believed in some sort of imminent rapture scenario) would surely be in pretty sorry shape. Would those half-rotted eyes of theirs have been any good to them?
And because of such bullcrap, people die, waiting on donor lists (not that others do their part, either - I'd love to see more stats on that. Would 5% participation solve the problem? Do most people really suck that bad?)
I guess if I'd have bought into the kind of crap you seem to have been exposed to there, I'd have done more than just ease myself away from some of it.
Hey, but not to worry! There are actually plenty of organs to go around. If most people won't sign those forms, and Christians won't set the example either, we can always get some on the black market. No one cares if there are a few less Hell-bound gooks in this world, do they? And in China it often *is* true, as those other Christians mentioned, that the body is often not dead yet. It keeps the product fresher.
As with the cat, out of sight means out of mind. And therefore out of conscience. It just doesn't get any better than this.
Well Harry just before they came out of the church, they were singing praise and professing their allegiance to Jesus so he won't send them all to hell, because he loves everyone so much.
I can see a resemblance to the allegiance and loyalty to Hitler, otherwise he would gun you down and bury you alive.
You don't mess with Jesus, so the thought of a poor helpless cat?
I'm sure they were more concerned with, did they get their praise in and did they also convince their peers and King Jesus, that they are in fact a "True Worthy Christian"?
Besides animals have no soul and no feelings either, only man and a woman have a soul and feelings which can only be judged in the future by god and jesus.
Animals were created just for our enjoyment to slaughter and maim and eradicate from the face of the earth, and us humans were created for god's enjoyment to slaughter and maim and eradicate from the face of the earth and to burn and torture our invisible souls for eternity, because he loves us so much.
I thought you said that you read the Bible one time there, Harry? Just kidding :-)
Gentle Jesus meek and mild. Come and stay with me awhile.
People, can we get any kind of ecology defense from Jesus or is the whole of creation totally depraved and fallen just like humanity?
In the New Testament, redeemed people are compared with sheep; One of the dumbest animals on the face of the earth. An animal which will follow most anything, even into the slaughter house!
Gentle Jesus meek and mild. Please don’t lead me there for awhile!
The New Testament is so full of bad teaching that we can use the same 'logic' used by the Son of God to prove that animals are our neighbours and should get equal treatment and love.
'he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"
In reply Jesus said: "A dog was crossing the road when it was hit by a car, leaving it half dead. 31A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the dog, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Baptist, when he came to the place and saw the dog, passed by on the other side. But an atheist, as he traveled, came where the dog was; and when he saw him, he took pity on it. He went to him and bandaged its wounds.Then he took the dog to an vet and took care of it. The next day he took out two hundred dollars and gave them to the vet. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'
"Which of these three do you think was a neighbour to the dog who was hit by a car?"
The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on it." Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."
I have now used the exact logic used by the Greatest Teacher Who Ever Lived to 'prove' that animals are our neighbours and should be treated as well as we treat people.
But this is absurd, so the 'logic' of the story is absurd, as it leads to absurdities.
The Parable of the Good Samaritan is a good story, but like a lot of Jesus's teaching, it is too vague to be real teaching.
If there really was a God Incarnate, surely he could communicate his message so that people could understand it.
You seem aware of what Christian ethics are. In this situation, the Christian thing to do would have been to have helped the cat rather than ignore it. There were a group of Christians nearby who did precisely that. Does their conduct in this situation, as you point out, invalidate the Christian faith? It's interesting that you finish this post by asking WWJD? As a Christian I don't follow other Christians; I follow Jesus Christ. In any case, I don't feel that it's my place to judge other Christians. It's more important to make sure my own house is in order, so to speak. I hope you're courteous enough to approve my comment. Have a nice day.
I should also mention that Christians have been at the forefront of animal welfare. For instance, William Wilberforce, who was instrumental in abolishing the slave trade in the 19th century, also helped found the RSPCA.
Ross "As a Christian I don't follow other Christians; I follow Jesus Christ."
Actually what you pretend to follow is the words of a book written by people claiming to have quoted the words of Jesus, some 30 years or more after Jesus' supposed death, yet Jesus never wrote one word himself, if he even existed that is.
Did you know that there is no such thing as a Christian, Muslim, Catholic, Hindu, Mormon, Jew, etc.?
There are only human beings claiming titles that they were indoctrinated into by their surrounding geographical area of
beliefs and world view.
Have you ever gave this any consideration?
I sincerely doubt it!
Hope you have a wonderful day!
And Jesus was responsible for drowing pigs....
Other 'heroes of faith' used to tie animals together and then set them on fire.
If you care to look into it, there's sufficient documentary evidence available to satisfy any good historian that Jesus was an actual person. If Jesus didn't exist, it would take a pretty sick mind or minds to perpetuate such an elaborate hoax on humanity. I'm also offended by any suggestion of a correlation between religious belief and indoctrination, as if to say I or my Christian forebears only believe because I don't know any better. If I wanted to I could trawl the net for stories of bad things or outlandish statements made by atheists, but what would that achieve apart from making me bitter and angry at the world? Again, I restate what I said earlier, I don't follow the logic that somehow Christian belief is invalidated by accusations of hypocrisy.
Regarding the "Jesus drowned pigs" story, might I suggest that you go and read it in its context?
Context?
Posssessed pigs?
Pigs possessed by demons?
And you don't burst out laughing at the idiocy of what people will believe if they read it in an old book?
Ross - "I'm also offended by any suggestion of a correlation between religious belief and indoctrination, as if to say I or my Christian forebears only believe because I don't know any better."
_____________________________
Oh please do become defended, and be sure to pull out the religious persecution card!
Without indoctrination just how do you think you learned about the god and the baby Jesus nonsense?
Do you think you were born with the knowledge of the Buybull?
Where the first words muttered by you and all babies is "Praise the Lord, Jesus?"
How else is any religious faith nonsense delivered?
Answer....purely oral indoctrination from human to human.
And yes anyone could have made up such nonsense, especially if you're
emotionally insane, under the influence of hypnotic drugs, ever hear of frontal-lobe trauma?
I'm totally offended by religious ignorance,, it insults my own ignorance, because deep down in my mind, it's says I should know better then to try to believe in such ridiculous nonsense, which is yes, passed from human to human through ignorance invoked by fear of death and dying and a threat of a burning hell.
How do you think you learned to speak the English language and to walk upright?
You only mimic what you heard and were told...this is the trait of humans.
Had you been born in South America, you would be speaking Spanish and born a Catholic.
Now prove me to be wrong!
And try not to be offended, another ploy you've learned to say by indoctrination.
Ross,
Here’s the way I understand the story of the pigs possessed by demons… Jesus was the original creator of Devil Ham.
Really Ross, Jesus used swine and dogs to compare gentiles to. The earliest traditions (Contra Acts) shows a Jesus who avoids contact with the hated gentiles who ruled his country for almost 200 years.
As an example see:
Was Jesus a Jewish Religious Bigot?
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