The video is amusing but this line of reasoning does not work on Christians. I recently found this website which demonstrates how delusional many Christians are:
http://ttm.name/
It is truly sad to see how warped this person's perception of reality is. I hope he seeks real medical help.
You can replace Jesus with... 1. groups of scientists who are forever optimistic that they will find out the answer to all areas of human life "tomorrow".
2. groups of intellectuals or philosophers who tell you what life is all about. Be the "overman".
3. or, fill in your own blanks here.
I do not see this video helps in the debate at all.
I think you're missing the point, which is Jesus wasn't and isn't any of these things in the first place. Therefore, nothing has been "replaced."
The only place they would be replaced is in Suzie's perception. And even then Suzie still interacts with all of these aspects of non-supernatual sources, in a direct or indirect way, to achieve them, yet she seems oblivious to this fact.
Should one have a more accurate map of reality, it's more likely they can produce more successful outcomes.
If you assume praying to Jesus is going to feed the hungry, but he does not because he doesn't exist, then that time could have been better spent taking actions that actually will have an effect.
This truly is a funny video about superficial Christians. The world is filled with them, sadly. "Their lips and ears are close to God, but their hearts are far from Him." I've received countless answers to authentic prayer...and yes, I've done the fake kind...and those never get answered. And I'm NOT an evangelical. Nowadays, that is just another word for Pharisee. I second oscarspaz's point. Neither tiny Christians nor scientists, nor "the will to power," offer us a better way than Jesus himself...who is very different than the images of Jesus that ruled in the minds of those who produced the video...I still liked the point and agree with it. Does anyone here know how radical it was that a Jewish Rabbi actual spoke to a woman...alone???!?!? To this very day, many Near Eastern cultures still frown if you are talking to a woman in public unless you are married or related to her.
Our family has suffered an incomprehensible sadness recently and the Christian response to it, (e.g. mystery, sin consequence, God's plan) disgusts me.
I like the ability for this info to deflate the pretentious Christian balloon.
You said, "Jesus himself...who is very different than the images of Jesus that ruled in the minds of those who produced the video...I still liked the point and agree with it."
And you said, "And I'm NOT an evangelical."
Can I assume you are a Christian?
And also you find evangelizing a form of false religion.
How then do you reconcile Christ's direction to make disicples of all the nations?
Ok, I put a 2 after my name now, Sorry for the confusion. I do not want to get off on the wrong foot here. Please forgive that. I did not know there was already a Richard here.
Sam, you're just preaching. Your words mean nothing. You're just like Suzi, depending on the same fallacious reasoning, which makes you a complete numbskull because you don't realize it. It doesn't matter if one is pretentious or Pharisaic. It matters that one is deluded (theistic).
Richard2, here's the definition of delusion from the medical encyclopedia and it seems accurate to basic theist attitudes and behaviors.
A delusion is an unshakable belief in something untrue. These irrational beliefs defy normal reasoning, and remain firm even when overwhelming proof is presented to dispute them. Delusions are often accompanied by hallucinations and/or feelings of paranoia, which act to strengthen confidence in the delusion.
I've received countless answers to authentic prayer...and yes, I've done the fake kind...and those never get answered.
How can you tell the difference? Are answered prayers authentic, while unanswered prayers are not?
Neither tiny Christians nor scientists, nor "the will to power," offer us a better way than Jesus himself...
A better way of what? if Jesus doesn't actually provide any of the things Suzie thinks he provides, then what exactly does Jesus provide?
Does anyone here know how radical it was that a Jewish Rabbi actual spoke to a woman...alone???!?!? To this very day, many Near Eastern cultures still frown if you are talking to a woman in public unless you are married or related to her.
It's unclear as to how this is relevant as, according to the Bible, Jesus' radical actions eventually resulted his crucifixion at the request of the Jewish authorities.
Wouldn't you say being crucified was a radical form of being frowned on?
Because you "use to be one" does not mean that everyone else is like you are. Your experience is just that - your experience. Maybe NOW is the delusion you are in.
Scott wrote: I think you're missing the point, which is Jesus wasn't and isn't any of these things in the first place. Therefore, nothing has been "replaced."
I am applying the Outsider Test principle looking at it from a skeptic(agnostic) point of view.
I did a thought experiment. Does it make a difference if I swapped "Jesus" in the video with something else. e.g. Suzie says thank you to "mother earth" to provide rain or make wheat grow. Suzie mother had an accident. She asked(instead of "pray") to the doctors to keep her mother alive but her mother die eventually because the doctors said they had done all they can. So Suzie froze her mother's body and trusted one day science would revive her mother. Suzie is very active in politics. She trusted the politicians would bring an end to war, hunger and poverty. etc. And Suzie watches TMZ too.
Do you see that I can create the same kind of video with different groups of people or a person or a god?
The video summarized the behavior of some Christians. There is always a "happy go lucky" in any group of people that lost touch with reality. This applies to Christians, Muslims, Taoist, Hindis, New Age communities, Catholics, etc.
I am skeptic in nature. Should I not consider that these people's approach to life may be right and my way could be dead wrong. Seeing from their viewpoints may make you uncomfortable but there is a chance(no matter how slim it is) that they(Christian, Muslim, Hindis, New Age, Atheist, etc., etc.,) could be right.
I agree with you that "Should one have a more accurate map of reality, it's more likely they can produce more successful outcomes."
That's why I think that instead of bashing a perspective of life(religious or not), please offer something more powerful that explains all the ups and down, good and ugly of life.
Then we have some substance to debate about. Otherwise, this video is just empty rhetoric to solicit emotions from the viewer to agree with the author. This video reminds me of high school cruelty - put a magnifying glass on your quirks.
I did a thought experiment. Does it make a difference if I swapped "Jesus" in the video with something else
Oscar,
Again, it seems that the point of the video is that Jesus doesn't actually do any of the things Suzie thinks he does.
Suzie says thank you to "mother earth" to provide rain or make wheat grow.
Being thankful doesn't require thanking a supernatural source. This is unnecessary. Wheat doesn't grow in the quantities needed unless planted and cultivated by farmers. Some fields are artificially irrigated, etc.
She asked(instead of "pray") to the doctors to keep her mother alive but her mother die eventually because the doctors said they had done all they can.
Suzie did ask the doctors in the video. You're not suggesting anything new. Should she have not asked, her mother would have died directly because of the accident.
So Suzie froze her mother's body and trusted one day science would revive her mother.
Suzie must be very wealthy, as this procedure is very expensive. Since we are mostly made of water, current cryogenics techniques result in cellular damage at the scale of a human being (or even a human head), which cannot currently be repaired. Furthermore, it's unclear if current techniques are sufficient to preserve brain structure to the point where one's identify can be rebuilt in the future.
In other words, as a skeptic, this doesn't seem like a wise decision due to the low odds of success. Perhaps if one was very wealthy and had money to burn?
Suzie is very active in politics. She trusted the politicians would bring an end to war, hunger and poverty. etc.
People are often responsible for war, hunger and poverty. As such, educating people is our best hope in reducing these problems.
That's why I think that instead of bashing a perspective of life(religious or not), please offer something more powerful that explains all the ups and down, good and ugly of life.
What do you mean by more powerful? Something more exciting? Something that gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling?
What do you mean by explains the ups and downs, good and ugly of life? Do you mean something that portrays the world as being controlled by supernatural forces instead of having concrete causes that we can actually try understand and make change?
When you take responsibility for your life, you empower yourself to make a difference in your life and the lives of others. It can be exciting and rewarding.
This will be my last post because I don't think you understand my point about the video.
1. The video portraits a simple minded Suzie who believed in so call Jesus that did not match up with "reality". The video juxtaposes her understand of life - Jesus did this and Jesus did that with the reality as understood by the author of the video. So the video heightens the "ridiculous" factor for having such illogical, ridiculous, outlook of life.
2. I argued that this video did not add value to the debate. The video only solicit emotional responses. My reason is that you can pick out such "simple minded" people from any group of people, whether they are religious or not because you are judging from your understanding of life.
For example: Some people trusted(believed in) science so much that they are willing to pay a huge some of money to freeze their body for the hope of being revived in the future. This action and trust of science will look stupid and ridiculous in the context of someone whose understanding of life is that when you are dead, you are dead, there is nothing after death. This someone makes a Suzie short video showing how such hope in science is "ridiculous" by creating a scene juxtaposing Suzie freezing his mother's body with rows and rows of graves from the ancient to modern days in the video.
3. Scott asked: What do you mean by more powerful? Any system of thoughts whether philosophical or religious takes a shot to explain life. One can weight whether one system offers a better(more powerful) explanation that encompassed as much as possible all that we experienced in life - ups and downs, good and evil, etc. Kind of like physicists working on a "unifying theory of everything" in to explain ALL the forces(know or unknown) in the universe. One theory to "rule them all" so to speak.
If the video is about Suzie that has a better(more powerful) system to understand life, that would contribute value to the debate and debunk Christianity.
However the video is like a Vegan trying to show how "ridiculous" a non-Vegan is because non-Vegan does not know that how harmful non-Vegan's lifestyle is. Or, flipping it around, a non-Vegan showing how "ridiculous" a Vegan is because Vegan turned a blind eye to the fact that vegetable is a living thing. Vegan should just drink water and breath air. That should be good enough to survive. (I am just using this to illustrate a point. I have no intension to be disrespectful to Vegans or non-Vegans).
It is the context that the author put Suzie in that make her look ridiculous. I can do that to anyone and any group of people. One more example, if I am Asian, I will tend to read Western Individualism as "rebellion to family and society". If I am an Westerner, I will read Asians to be "lacking of guts to speak up as an individual."
From the author's perspective, Christianity is ridiculous.
I agree.
But, so what? From my or some other people's perspective, your way of looking at life is ridiculous to me too.
Therefore, my conclusion is that this video stirs up emotions for those who experienced the same empty feelings about Christianity to agree with the author. It does not add value to debunk Christianity(other religions, or any other view points of life like Taoism, Buddhism, etc.)
If this post still does not make sense, all I can say is "so long & thanks for all the fish."
Great video...I'm not so sure about the tongue-in-cheek humor. I fear that a great many Christians are watching this video and after it's over are saying..."see the world would be a better place if only we all prayed like Suzy!"
21 comments:
The video is amusing but this line of reasoning does not work on Christians. I recently found this website which demonstrates how delusional many Christians are:
http://ttm.name/
It is truly sad to see how warped this person's perception of reality is. I hope he seeks real medical help.
You can replace Jesus with...
1. groups of scientists who are forever optimistic that they will find out the answer to all areas of human life "tomorrow".
2. groups of intellectuals or philosophers who tell you what life is all about. Be the "overman".
3. or, fill in your own blanks here.
I do not see this video helps in the debate at all.
So, so nice!!
(JH)
The Light of the World is a very Dim Bulb.
What makes this video so powerful is that the truths are so simple. The points made say so much.
(JH)
Oscarspaz wrote: You can replace Jesus with..
I think you're missing the point, which is Jesus wasn't and isn't any of these things in the first place. Therefore, nothing has been "replaced."
The only place they would be replaced is in Suzie's perception. And even then Suzie still interacts with all of these aspects of non-supernatual sources, in a direct or indirect way, to achieve them, yet she seems oblivious to this fact.
Should one have a more accurate map of reality, it's more likely they can produce more successful outcomes.
If you assume praying to Jesus is going to feed the hungry, but he does not because he doesn't exist, then that time could have been better spent taking actions that actually will have an effect.
This truly is a funny video about superficial Christians. The world is filled with them, sadly. "Their lips and ears are close to God, but their hearts are far from Him." I've received countless answers to authentic prayer...and yes, I've done the fake kind...and those never get answered. And I'm NOT an evangelical. Nowadays, that is just another word for Pharisee. I second oscarspaz's point. Neither tiny Christians nor scientists, nor "the will to power," offer us a better way than Jesus himself...who is very different than the images of Jesus that ruled in the minds of those who produced the video...I still liked the point and agree with it. Does anyone here know how radical it was that a Jewish Rabbi actual spoke to a woman...alone???!?!? To this very day, many Near Eastern cultures still frown if you are talking to a woman in public unless you are married or related to her.
Thanks for posting this John.
Our family has suffered an incomprehensible sadness recently and the Christian response to it, (e.g. mystery, sin consequence, God's plan) disgusts me.
I like the ability for this info to deflate the pretentious Christian balloon.
Sam,
You said, "Jesus himself...who is very different than the images of Jesus that ruled in the minds of those who produced the video...I still liked the point and agree with it."
And you said, "And I'm NOT an evangelical."
Can I assume you are a Christian?
And also you find evangelizing a form of false religion.
How then do you reconcile Christ's direction to make disicples of all the nations?
Uh Oh,
I see there is another Richard already on this blog. Do I need to change my profile?
Ok, I put a 2 after my name now, Sorry for the confusion. I do not want to get off on the wrong foot here. Please forgive that. I did not know there was already a Richard here.
Sam, you're just preaching. Your words mean nothing. You're just like Suzi, depending on the same fallacious reasoning, which makes you a complete numbskull because you don't realize it. It doesn't matter if one is pretentious or Pharisaic. It matters that one is deluded (theistic).
(JH)
Joe,
Why do you assume that theists are the deluded ones?
Richard2, here's the definition of delusion from the medical encyclopedia and it seems accurate to basic theist attitudes and behaviors.
A delusion is an unshakable belief in something untrue. These irrational beliefs defy normal reasoning, and remain firm even when overwhelming proof is presented to dispute them. Delusions are often accompanied by hallucinations and/or feelings of paranoia, which act to strengthen confidence in the delusion.
Sounds like a theist to me.
Richard2 said...
"Joe,
Why do you assume that theists are the deluded ones?"
My reply...
Because 1) I've been one, and 2) you believe in ghosts and things that go "bump" in the night.
(JH)
I've received countless answers to authentic prayer...and yes, I've done the fake kind...and those never get answered.
How can you tell the difference? Are answered prayers authentic, while unanswered prayers are not?
Neither tiny Christians nor scientists, nor "the will to power," offer us a better way than Jesus himself...
A better way of what? if Jesus doesn't actually provide any of the things Suzie thinks he provides, then what exactly does Jesus provide?
Does anyone here know how radical it was that a Jewish Rabbi actual spoke to a woman...alone???!?!? To this very day, many Near Eastern cultures still frown if you are talking to a woman in public unless you are married or related to her.
It's unclear as to how this is relevant as, according to the Bible, Jesus' radical actions eventually resulted his crucifixion at the request of the Jewish authorities.
Wouldn't you say being crucified was a radical form of being frowned on?
Joe,
Because you "use to be one" does not mean that everyone else is like you are. Your experience is just that - your experience. Maybe NOW is the delusion you are in.
Scott wrote: I think you're missing the point, which is Jesus wasn't and isn't any of these things in the first place. Therefore, nothing has been "replaced."
I am applying the Outsider Test principle looking at it from a skeptic(agnostic) point of view.
I did a thought experiment. Does it make a difference if I swapped "Jesus" in the video with something else. e.g. Suzie says thank you to "mother earth" to provide rain or make wheat grow. Suzie mother had an accident. She asked(instead of "pray") to the doctors to keep her mother alive but her mother die eventually because the doctors said they had done all they can. So Suzie froze her mother's body and trusted one day science would revive her mother. Suzie is very active in politics. She trusted the politicians would bring an end to war, hunger and poverty. etc. And Suzie watches TMZ too.
Do you see that I can create the same kind of video with different groups of people or a person or a god?
The video summarized the behavior of some Christians. There is always a "happy go lucky" in any group of people that lost touch with reality. This applies to Christians, Muslims, Taoist, Hindis, New Age communities, Catholics, etc.
I am skeptic in nature. Should I not consider that these people's approach to life may be right and my way could be dead wrong. Seeing from their viewpoints may make you uncomfortable but there is a chance(no matter how slim it is) that they(Christian, Muslim, Hindis, New Age, Atheist, etc., etc.,) could be right.
I agree with you that "Should one have a more accurate map of reality, it's more likely they can produce more successful outcomes."
That's why I think that instead of bashing a perspective of life(religious or not), please offer something more powerful that explains all the ups and down, good and ugly of life.
Then we have some substance to debate about. Otherwise, this video is just empty rhetoric to solicit emotions from the viewer to agree with the author. This video reminds me of high school cruelty - put a magnifying glass on your quirks.
That's all.
I did a thought experiment. Does it make a difference if I swapped "Jesus" in the video with something else
Oscar,
Again, it seems that the point of the video is that Jesus doesn't actually do any of the things Suzie thinks he does.
Suzie says thank you to "mother earth" to provide rain or make wheat grow.
Being thankful doesn't require thanking a supernatural source. This is unnecessary. Wheat doesn't grow in the quantities needed unless planted and cultivated by farmers. Some fields are artificially irrigated, etc.
She asked(instead of "pray") to the doctors to keep her mother alive but her mother die eventually because the doctors said they had done all they can.
Suzie did ask the doctors in the video. You're not suggesting anything new. Should she have not asked, her mother would have died directly because of the accident.
So Suzie froze her mother's body and trusted one day science would revive her mother.
Suzie must be very wealthy, as this procedure is very expensive. Since we are mostly made of water, current cryogenics techniques result in cellular damage at the scale of a human being (or even a human head), which cannot currently be repaired. Furthermore, it's unclear if current techniques are sufficient to preserve brain structure to the point where one's identify can be rebuilt in the future.
In other words, as a skeptic, this doesn't seem like a wise decision due to the low odds of success. Perhaps if one was very wealthy and had money to burn?
Suzie is very active in politics. She trusted the politicians would bring an end to war, hunger and poverty. etc.
People are often responsible for war, hunger and poverty. As such, educating people is our best hope in reducing these problems.
That's why I think that instead of bashing a perspective of life(religious or not), please offer something more powerful that explains all the ups and down, good and ugly of life.
What do you mean by more powerful? Something more exciting? Something that gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling?
What do you mean by explains the ups and downs, good and ugly of life? Do you mean something that portrays the world as being controlled by supernatural forces instead of having concrete causes that we can actually try understand and make change?
When you take responsibility for your life, you empower yourself to make a difference in your life and the lives of others. It can be exciting and rewarding.
Scott,
This will be my last post because I don't think you understand my point about the video.
1. The video portraits a simple minded Suzie who believed in so call Jesus that did not match up with "reality". The video juxtaposes her understand of life - Jesus did this and Jesus did that with the reality as understood by the author of the video. So the video heightens the "ridiculous" factor for having such illogical, ridiculous, outlook of life.
2. I argued that this video did not add value to the debate. The video only solicit emotional responses. My reason is that you can pick out such "simple minded" people from any group of people, whether they are religious or not because you are judging from your understanding of life.
For example: Some people trusted(believed in) science so much that they are willing to pay a huge some of money to freeze their body for the hope of being revived in the future. This action and trust of science will look stupid and ridiculous in the context of someone whose understanding of life is that when you are dead, you are dead, there is nothing after death. This someone makes a Suzie short video showing how such hope in science is "ridiculous" by creating a scene juxtaposing Suzie freezing his mother's body with rows and rows of graves from the ancient to modern days in the video.
3. Scott asked:
What do you mean by more powerful?
Any system of thoughts whether philosophical or religious takes a shot to explain life. One can weight whether one system offers a better(more powerful) explanation that encompassed as much as possible all that we experienced in life - ups and downs, good and evil, etc. Kind of like physicists working on a "unifying theory of everything" in to explain ALL the forces(know or unknown) in the universe. One theory to "rule them all" so to speak.
If the video is about Suzie that has a better(more powerful) system to understand life, that would contribute value to the debate and debunk Christianity.
However the video is like a Vegan trying to show how "ridiculous" a non-Vegan is because non-Vegan does not know that how harmful non-Vegan's lifestyle is. Or, flipping it around, a non-Vegan showing how "ridiculous" a Vegan is because Vegan turned a blind eye to the fact that vegetable is a living thing. Vegan should just drink water and breath air. That should be good enough to survive. (I am just using this to illustrate a point. I have no intension to be disrespectful to Vegans or non-Vegans).
It is the context that the author put Suzie in that make her look ridiculous. I can do that to anyone and any group of people. One more example, if I am Asian, I will tend to read Western Individualism as "rebellion to family and society". If I am an Westerner, I will read Asians to be "lacking of guts to speak up as an individual."
From the author's perspective, Christianity is ridiculous.
I agree.
But, so what? From my or some other people's perspective, your way of looking at life is ridiculous to me too.
Therefore, my conclusion is that this video stirs up emotions for those who experienced the same empty feelings about Christianity to agree with the author. It does not add value to debunk Christianity(other religions, or any other view points of life like Taoism, Buddhism, etc.)
If this post still does not make sense, all I can say is "so long & thanks for all the fish."
Great video...I'm not so sure about the tongue-in-cheek humor. I fear that a great many Christians are watching this video and after it's over are saying..."see the world would be a better place if only we all prayed like Suzy!"
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