This is a real problem for Christians. I have heard some say that any baby that dies automatically shows that they were elect. This is probably the best possible answer for them, although its not found in the Bible.
The Bible clearly teaches in the Old Testament that God's judgment fell on infants and that the wicked go astray from birth. I'm not saying that the Bible teaches that infants cannot be regenerated. This was the case with John the Baptist when he was in the womb. But the Bible nowhere says that all infants are regenerated. The best solution would be that of John Calvin. Some babies go to heaven and some don't. Completely terrifying.
I think the Bible must contradict itself on this issue or something. The Bible teaches that the wages of sin is death. Since some babies die then they can't be innocent. Moreover, the Bible also teaches that the wicked go astray from birth.
I've heard that it is a statistical fact that 50% of all pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion without the mother even knowing that she was pregnant. If this is true and that axiom that babies go to hell is true, then not only is God the most prolific abortionist of all, but hell is filling up so quickly that I doubt there will be room for me there.
on the other hand, too bad 5-Point-Baptist didn't take it a step further and say that Christians would also go around performing abortions or killing mothers to ensure that pre-born children all go to heaven also.
"Jesus called a little child to Him, and set him in the midst of them and said, “Truly I say to you, except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven"
Little children don't discover that the earth is not the center of the universe and that it revolves around the sun; they don't discover that the earth is not flat; they don't discover that disease is not caused by demons, that crop failures, floods, and earthquakes are not caused by an offended deity. If we had taken this advice, most of us would still be under the thumb of the bejeweled princes of the Catholic Church, gullible, fearful and ignorant.
As all those esteemed theological opinions highlight for us that, from its outset, Christianity has been century after century of making stuff up. No god is handing down understanding. Christian theologians have forever been making it up.
About 1:10 in it talks about the different and conflicting conclusions theologists, many of them now saints, have reached in this matter. If the damned saints can't get the message straight, that is, if the real religious mucky-mucks are getting conflicting input from the same god, that means the entire enterprise is unreliable. None of us needs to listen to what believers say about their god since we have no way to know if, just like those saints, they are all being told different things.
In the video around the 0:50 mark, it talks about babies not being competent to understand. Then, the video goes on to lay out many ways that Christian theology types have attempted to reconcile this concern for infants. But, it seems that special consideration should be made for all persons given that Christians constantly assert that none of us can understand their god, its intentions, plans, will, mercy, power or love(It should be noted that they will say this in one breath, then, in the next tell us they know precisely what their god wants us to do). In the eyes of their god none of us is competent to understand, so we should we all be given special consideration. We should all get a free pass through the Pearly Gates. Given that we all start out in principle unable to understand god, and, then, if we choose to make the same monumental effort to receive the word of god as the saints have made, the best we can hope for is that that loving god in heaven, the one true god, will treat us all exactly like those saints while it tells us differing and conflicting things.
I can volunteer some reference on this one, it's more like 20%, 20% of the pregnancies were spontaneously aborted, sometimes without the women even realized they're pregnant. It's in the paper called "Management of Spontaneous Abortion" by CRAIG P. GRIEBEL, M.D.. So, if the christian god exists, this monster is the most prolific abortionist even existed.
Matchez quoted Matthew 18:3 hoping to provde us with an example of a compassionate Jesus: "Jesus called a little child to Him, and set him in the midst of them and said, “Truly I say to you, except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven"
However, if this proof text is taken in context; Jesus was only addressing his fellow Jews about their Jewish children.
So just how does Jesus view non-Jewish little children? Again the answer is found in Matthew 15: 21 -28:
“And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed.” . . . But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” But she came and began to bow down before Him, saying, “Lord, help me!”And He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.”
Yes, Jesus does finally give in and heal the demon possessed daughter, BUT ONLY AFTER she admits - before the Jewish Jesus and his Jewish audience - that she and her daughter are, indeed, equal to dogs:
But she said, “Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”
The love and compassion theologians write about God’s love for all of humanity comes, not from a Synoptic Gospel Jesus, but from Paul (A person who, in all likely hood, NEVER met or nor heard the earthly Jesus teach or preach).
Indeed, it is Paul’s love and compassion for all of humanity that far exceeds the narrow mind of a bigoted Jewish Jesus and his god! (It's little wonder that the majority of the New Testament was either written by Paul or under his name.)
Harry, your offense would have kept you from approaching and receiving the healing for your child. Thank God (literally) this Canaanite woman had better sensitivity than that. Your approach towards scripture is 'dog'matic.
Doesn't this "end of the world" scenario Cole refers to strike one as awfully strange? Here you have the creator of this vast Universe (and possibly countless other universes as well), a being immeasurably powerful, engaged in tormenting creatures of comparatively total insignificance. I can't get the image of someone tearing the wings off of flies out of my head. If this isn't sadism, I don't know what is. And yet, Christians insist, this is the best scenario their loving father could have come up with.
Does god miraculously accelerate the development of babies' minds when they go to hell so that they can understand how eternal punishment gives their brief earthly lives meaning?
Steve Hays at Triablogue, in his usual sociopathic form, doesn't take issue with the notion of babies in Hell (although he rejects Hell as a literal fire).
He states that God foreknows their future rebellion so the baby sort of "grows up" in Hell into his demonic manifestation.
Personally, if I woke up out of non-being only to find out I was going to be fried forever, I'd have a pretty bitter attitude towards the one responsible for it.
Matchez: For you and all the other Messiahist (Christians), a Jesus boiling with hate inside about the desecration of their Holy of Holies and Temple when the Greek Antiochus lV Epiphanes slaughtered a pig and splashed its blood all over the altar had left both Jesus and his fellow Jews bitter and angry at all gentiles.
For you people, a Kosher Jewish Jesus, as presented in the Synoptic Gospels, is an eternal albatross around your necks.
Need more proof? Even your own Gospel Tracts can’t give you a so-called Salvation Plan from the Gospels and any of the so called universal statements about the whole known world are few; such as the two birth narratives of Jesus - added into the oral Gospel tradition much latter.
Sorry to burst you Compassionate Jesus Salvation Bubble, but WITHOUT PAUL (followed by the mostly unhistorical, but theological Book of Acts) ALL YOU MESSIAHIST GENTILES would have as much of a chance at salvation as a SNOWBALL IN HELL!!!
So the next time you think a loving compassionate Jesus died on a cross to save you; thank Saint Paul for his systematic theological works, especially his Summa Theologica: Romans.
You see Matchez, it's a fact that the Gospels (the works and saying of an anti-gentile Jewish Jesus) were not written down until Paul formulated a salvation plan for the whole world!
The next time you get on your “Jesus Only Kick”, take pointer from the Catholics and Orthodoxs: How about praying to the Saints and thanking them for your salvation?!!
In other words, how about giving real salvation credit where salvation real credit is due.
Some of the priests with the Spanish Conquistadors bashed the heads of Native American babies against rocks in order to save them from going to hell. They feared the babies would grow up in a heathen society, die and go to hell. So this preacher's idea is not only logical but actually has happened. Then there was that Yates woman who claimed to have killed her children to save their souls as well.
If you really believe this, wouldn't this be the compassionate thing to do? Of course you would thereby consign yourself to hell for killing them. How selfless you'd be though.
The age of accountability has it's own issues. No age is specified in the bible, so we tend to make it arbitrary. Children mature at different rates so the age of accountability for one child wouldn't necessarily be that of another.
A similar problem exists for the mentally handicapped and insane. How low must our IQ be to exempt us from hell? How psychotic? Perhaps god judges on a case by case basis. These are all such serious theological issues...much like how many angels can fit on the head of pin.
Cole said... "The scriptures plainly teach that Jesus has wrath and that pregnant women and women nursing their babies will experience that wrath."
Ohhh well, its faith science ..After all no doubt before then,the trailing of human baby "sacrifice" had maybe also even already been well tried! somewhere in those barbaric times.To see if maybe the anger of the god/s maybe could be appeased, by some sacrificial baby blood. In those times when early cave man was trying to learn to understand the forces of natural elements like lightning and drought etc ...Must surely have honestly at times wondered that it seemed to them in their lack of modern knowledge,that situations they experienced sometimes in life, seemed rather like it was about punishment from some unseen supernatural mind.
It becoming about only the gods having wrath upon babies and pregnant women,by then might have been seen as a very big improvement and good news! and a real bonus ...Hell the wrath gods only killed ya if you didnt behave and get yer shit together!.
No longer the old human sacrifice weekend swap meet ups,of sacrifice of animal and human was needed.
Shucks, these folks were maybe even thought very civilised at the time.
Once again we see complication rather than contradiction.
There are several historical positions not being addressed with respect to infant baptism and raising children within the family commune and the knowledge of salvation through Jesus Christ.
Also, what "works" has an infant done in order to be judged by?
Most modern day born-again Christains believe that these infants will go to heaven...
However! The complication as always been "at what point do they somehow lose their salvation or become accountable?"
Will not the Omniscient Creator of the universe...the God of Abraham do the right thing?
"Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!
Sounds barbaric."
This is David referring to the completion of war with the daughter of Babylon. It addresses being content that these descendents will no longer rise up against you. It is symbolic of other things...but it is not about babies going to heaven or hell. "ashri sh-iachz u-nphtz ath-ollik al-e-slo" in the Hebrew is holding and shattering unweaned children to the crag.
"It's even in the New Testament:
Luke 21:23
How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people."
This is an eschatological reference to the coming seven year tribulation. It does not address whether babies go to heaven or not.
Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward and speak lies."
Take this in conjunction with Romans 3:23 and you will have a stronger case. FTR, I have not stated that I believe that all babies go to heaven. I am tenaciously agnostical...but I recognize that whatever grace finds us...it will logically be "unfair" because there is no such thing as fairness and therefore it is an illogical thing to appeal to.
I realize it's not about that. But it just goes against common sense that babies go astray from the womb and God bringing His wrath down upon them by smashing them against rocks is cruel and unusual punishment.
If Christianity is true - then logic would dictate it is more the problem for the "unbeliever" as being a reason to reject Christianity because of "unfairness" in their minds.
I do not consider this a problem for Christianity...anymore than all of the people who died before the Perfect Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross...nor all those who are mentally incapacitated. Everyone who dies a believer does so by the grace of God and it is not fair.
Harry H. McCall, CET said "Sorry to burst you Compassionate Jesus Salvation Bubble, but WITHOUT PAUL (followed by the mostly unhistorical, but theological Book of Acts) ALL YOU MESSIAHIST GENTILES would have as much of a chance at salvation as a SNOWBALL IN HELL!!!"
Your history is really messed up man! There was no Paul. There was only Marcion. And Jesus wasn't born in Bethlehem as a Jew. He descended straight from heaven without being born, thus no ethnicity at all. He didn't come as the Jewish Messiah. He came to kick the Jewish god's butt by tricking the Jewish god into crucifying him, so that he could then force the Jewish god to accept the innocent blood he shed as payment for humanity and purchase us all from that OT tyrant God that commanded genocide all over the place! (like in Numbers 31) He cam to save us from the schitzophrenic Jewish god who intended to burn everyone in hell eternally.
36 comments:
Very good.
The tortured reasoning of the hipster Christian at the end is priceless.
This is a real problem for Christians. I have heard some say that any baby that dies automatically shows that they were elect. This is probably the best possible answer for them, although its not found in the Bible.
"One is not converted to christianity; one must be morbid enough for it."
-Friedrieh Wilhelm Nietzsche
The Bible clearly teaches in the Old Testament that God's judgment fell on infants and that the wicked go astray from birth. I'm not saying that the Bible teaches that infants cannot be regenerated. This was the case with John the Baptist when he was in the womb. But the Bible nowhere says that all infants are regenerated. The best solution would be that of John Calvin. Some babies go to heaven and some don't. Completely terrifying.
Especialy if hell is eternal concious torment.
John, what about the concept of the age of accountability? That's at least another option you should be familiar with from your CofC background.
Brad,
I think the Bible must contradict itself on this issue or something. The Bible teaches that the wages of sin is death. Since some babies die then they can't be innocent. Moreover, the Bible also teaches that the wicked go astray from birth.
Psalm 58:3
Even from birth the wicked go astray;
from the womb they are wayward and speak lies.
Ken,
Good to see you are blogging again. I love your perspective.
Can we assume that aborted fetuses go to heaven as well? If so, then abortionists are performing a spiritual mitzvah.
I've heard that it is a statistical fact that 50% of all pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion without the mother even knowing that she was pregnant. If this is true and that axiom that babies go to hell is true, then not only is God the most prolific abortionist of all, but hell is filling up so quickly that I doubt there will be room for me there.
on the other hand, too bad 5-Point-Baptist didn't take it a step further and say that Christians would also go around performing abortions or killing mothers to ensure that pre-born children all go to heaven also.
"Jesus called a little child to Him, and set him in the midst of them and said, “Truly I say to you, except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven"
Matchez,
Little children don't discover that the earth is not the center of the universe and that it revolves around the sun; they don't discover that the earth is not flat; they don't discover that disease is not caused by demons, that crop failures, floods, and earthquakes are not caused by an offended deity. If we had taken this advice, most of us would still be under the thumb of the bejeweled princes of the Catholic Church, gullible, fearful and ignorant.
As all those esteemed theological opinions highlight for us that, from its outset, Christianity has been century after century of making stuff up. No god is handing down understanding. Christian theologians have forever been making it up.
About 1:10 in it talks about the different and conflicting conclusions theologists, many of them now saints, have reached in this matter. If the damned saints can't get the message straight, that is, if the real religious mucky-mucks are getting conflicting input from the same god, that means the entire enterprise is unreliable. None of us needs to listen to what believers say about their god since we have no way to know if, just like those saints, they are all being told different things.
In the video around the 0:50 mark, it talks about babies not being competent to understand. Then, the video goes on to lay out many ways that Christian theology types have attempted to reconcile this concern for infants. But, it seems that special consideration should be made for all persons given that Christians constantly assert that none of us can understand their god, its intentions, plans, will, mercy, power or love(It should be noted that they will say this in one breath, then, in the next tell us they know precisely what their god wants us to do). In the eyes of their god none of us is competent to understand, so we should we all be given special consideration. We should all get a free pass through the Pearly Gates. Given that we all start out in principle unable to understand god, and, then, if we choose to make the same monumental effort to receive the word of god as the saints have made, the best we can hope for is that that loving god in heaven, the one true god, will treat us all exactly like those saints while it tells us differing and conflicting things.
RedPillBill>
I can volunteer some reference on this one, it's more like 20%, 20% of the pregnancies were spontaneously aborted, sometimes without the women even realized they're pregnant. It's in the paper called "Management of Spontaneous Abortion" by CRAIG P. GRIEBEL, M.D.. So, if the christian god exists, this monster is the most prolific abortionist even existed.
Matchez quoted Matthew 18:3 hoping to provde us with an example of a compassionate Jesus: "Jesus called a little child to Him, and set him in the midst of them and said, “Truly I say to you, except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven"
However, if this proof text is taken in context; Jesus was only addressing his fellow Jews about their Jewish children.
So just how does Jesus view non-Jewish little children? Again the answer is found in Matthew 15: 21 -28:
“And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed.” . . . But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” But she came and began to bow down before Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” And He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.”
Yes, Jesus does finally give in and heal the demon possessed daughter, BUT ONLY AFTER she admits - before the Jewish Jesus and his Jewish audience - that she and her daughter are, indeed, equal to dogs:
But she said, “Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”
The love and compassion theologians write about God’s love for all of humanity comes, not from a Synoptic Gospel Jesus, but from Paul (A person who, in all likely hood, NEVER met or nor heard the earthly Jesus teach or preach).
Indeed, it is Paul’s love and compassion for all of humanity that far exceeds the narrow mind of a bigoted Jewish Jesus and his god! (It's little wonder that the majority of the New Testament was either written by Paul or under his name.)
Harry, your offense would have kept you from approaching and receiving the healing for your child. Thank God (literally) this Canaanite woman had better sensitivity than that. Your approach towards scripture is 'dog'matic.
Only babies who were born as Augustinians go to hell.
In speaking of the end times the Bible says of Jesus' wrath:
Luke 21:23
How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people.
Revelation 6:16
They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
Re: Luke 21-23 and Revelation 6:16 ---These are both scriptures that affirm how some people view God amidst disastrous circumstances.
Doesn't this "end of the world" scenario Cole refers to strike one as awfully strange? Here you have the creator of this vast Universe (and possibly countless other universes as well), a being immeasurably powerful, engaged in tormenting creatures of comparatively total insignificance. I can't get the image of someone tearing the wings off of flies out of my head. If this isn't sadism, I don't know what is. And yet, Christians insist, this is the best scenario their loving father could have come up with.
The scriptures plainly teach that Jesus has wrath and that pregnant women and women nursing their babies will experience that wrath.
Does god miraculously accelerate the development of babies' minds when they go to hell so that they can understand how eternal punishment gives their brief earthly lives meaning?
Steve Hays at Triablogue, in his usual sociopathic form, doesn't take issue with the notion of babies in Hell (although he rejects Hell as a literal fire).
He states that God foreknows their future rebellion so the baby sort of "grows up" in Hell into his demonic manifestation.
Personally, if I woke up out of non-being only to find out I was going to be fried forever, I'd have a pretty bitter attitude towards the one responsible for it.
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2009/11/is-evil-pseudoproblem.html
Matchez:
For you and all the other Messiahist (Christians), a Jesus boiling with hate inside about the desecration of their Holy of Holies and Temple when the Greek Antiochus lV Epiphanes slaughtered a pig and splashed its blood all over the altar had left both Jesus and his fellow Jews bitter and angry at all gentiles.
For you people, a Kosher Jewish Jesus, as presented in the Synoptic Gospels, is an eternal albatross around your necks.
Need more proof? Even your own Gospel Tracts can’t give you a so-called Salvation Plan from the Gospels and any of the so called universal statements about the whole known world are few; such as the two birth narratives of Jesus - added into the oral Gospel tradition much latter.
Sorry to burst you Compassionate Jesus Salvation Bubble, but WITHOUT PAUL (followed by the mostly unhistorical, but theological Book of Acts) ALL YOU MESSIAHIST GENTILES would have as much of a chance at salvation as a SNOWBALL IN HELL!!!
So the next time you think a loving compassionate Jesus died on a cross to save you; thank Saint Paul for his systematic theological works, especially his Summa Theologica: Romans.
You see Matchez, it's a fact that the Gospels (the works and saying of an anti-gentile Jewish Jesus) were not written down until Paul formulated a salvation plan for the whole world!
The next time you get on your “Jesus Only Kick”, take pointer from the Catholics and Orthodoxs: How about praying to the Saints and thanking them for your salvation?!!
In other words, how about giving real salvation credit where salvation real credit is due.
Some of the priests with the Spanish Conquistadors bashed the heads of Native American babies against rocks in order to save them from going to hell. They feared the babies would grow up in a heathen society, die and go to hell. So this preacher's idea is not only logical but actually has happened. Then there was that Yates woman who claimed to have killed her children to save their souls as well.
If you really believe this, wouldn't this be the compassionate thing to do? Of course you would thereby consign yourself to hell for killing them. How selfless you'd be though.
The age of accountability has it's own issues. No age is specified in the bible, so we tend to make it arbitrary. Children mature at different rates so the age of accountability for one child wouldn't necessarily be that of another.
A similar problem exists for the mentally handicapped and insane. How low must our IQ be to exempt us from hell? How psychotic? Perhaps god judges on a case by case basis. These are all such serious theological issues...much like how many angels can fit on the head of pin.
Cole said... "The scriptures plainly teach that Jesus has wrath and that pregnant women and women nursing their babies will experience that wrath."
Ohhh well, its faith science ..After all no doubt before then,the trailing of human baby "sacrifice" had maybe also even already been well tried! somewhere in those barbaric times.To see if maybe the anger of the god/s maybe could be appeased, by some sacrificial baby blood. In those times when early cave man was trying to learn to understand the forces of natural elements like lightning and drought etc ...Must surely have honestly at times wondered that it seemed to them in their lack of modern knowledge,that situations they experienced sometimes in life, seemed rather like it was about punishment from some unseen supernatural mind.
It becoming about only the gods having wrath upon babies and pregnant women,by then might have been seen as a very big improvement and good news! and a real bonus ...Hell the wrath gods only killed ya if you didnt behave and get yer shit together!.
No longer the old human sacrifice weekend swap meet ups,of sacrifice of animal and human was needed.
Shucks, these folks were maybe even thought very civilised at the time.
Once again we see complication rather than contradiction.
There are several historical positions not being addressed with respect to infant baptism and raising children within the family commune and the knowledge of salvation through Jesus Christ.
Also, what "works" has an infant done in order to be judged by?
Most modern day born-again Christains believe that these infants will go to heaven...
However! The complication as always been "at what point do they somehow lose their salvation or become accountable?"
Will not the Omniscient Creator of the universe...the God of Abraham do the right thing?
Brekmin,
As terrible as it is the Bible really does teach that some babies are born wicked. Indeed, from the womb they go astray:
Psalm 58:3
Even from birth the wicked go astray;
from the womb they are wayward and speak lies.
Not only that but God at times brings down His wrath on them:
Psalm 137:9
Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!
Sounds barbaric.
It's even in the New Testament:
Luke 21:23
How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people.
Psalm 137:9
"Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!
Sounds barbaric."
This is David referring to the completion of war with the daughter of Babylon. It addresses
being content that these descendents will no longer rise up against you. It is symbolic of other things...but it is not about babies going to heaven or hell.
"ashri sh-iachz u-nphtz ath-ollik al-e-slo" in the Hebrew is holding and shattering unweaned children to the crag.
"It's even in the New Testament:
Luke 21:23
How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people."
This is an eschatological reference to the coming seven year tribulation. It does not address whether babies go to heaven or not.
"Psalm 58:3
Even from birth the wicked go astray;
from the womb they are wayward and speak lies."
Take this in conjunction with Romans 3:23 and you will have a stronger case. FTR, I have not stated that I believe that all babies go to heaven. I am tenaciously agnostical...but I recognize that whatever grace finds us...it will logically be
"unfair" because there is no such thing as fairness and therefore it is an illogical thing to appeal to.
Breckmin,
I realize it's not about that. But it just goes against common sense that babies go astray from the womb and God bringing His wrath down upon them by smashing them against rocks is cruel and unusual punishment.
"This is a real problem for Christians."
If Christianity is true - then logic would dictate it is more the problem for the "unbeliever" as being a reason to reject Christianity because of "unfairness" in their minds.
I do not consider this a problem for Christianity...anymore than all of the people who died before the Perfect Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross...nor all those who are mentally incapacitated. Everyone who dies a believer does so by the grace of God and it is not fair.
God dashes innocent babies against rocks. Even if they are not innocent it's still cruel and unusual.
Harry H. McCall, CET said "Sorry to burst you Compassionate Jesus Salvation Bubble, but WITHOUT PAUL (followed by the mostly unhistorical, but theological Book of Acts) ALL YOU MESSIAHIST GENTILES would have as much of a chance at salvation as a SNOWBALL IN HELL!!!"
Your history is really messed up man! There was no Paul. There was only Marcion. And Jesus wasn't born in Bethlehem as a Jew. He descended straight from heaven without being born, thus no ethnicity at all. He didn't come as the Jewish Messiah. He came to kick the Jewish god's butt by tricking the Jewish god into crucifying him, so that he could then force the Jewish god to accept the innocent blood he shed as payment for humanity and purchase us all from that OT tyrant God that commanded genocide all over the place! (like in Numbers 31) He cam to save us from the schitzophrenic Jewish god who intended to burn everyone in hell eternally.
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