Christian Police Your Own Ranks: Bill Wiese Saw Hell
This guy is wacko. But here's a problem as I see it. Christians believe because they claim to have experienced God, and yet most Christians in today's world do not accept a fire and brimstone hell. Many others argue for an annihilation view of hell. So, why do most Christians discount Bill Wiese's experience and yet trust their own experiences? Bill is so sure of what he experienced, you see. But it's ALL IN THE HEAD, all of it!
10 comments:
'Bill Weise, real estate agent, evangelist'
That's all you need to know!
The last words of that christian guy are amazing: "It's not punishing..."
The christian illustrates what I've half-seriously tried to argue: The prospect of going to hell plays a major role in the construction of his life's meaning. Hartmann's attempt to argue against the idea of eternal punishment apparently made the christian anxious and defensive, as you would expect when something threatens your existential investment.
As a Christian, I heard John 3:16 run into the ground about how God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten son to die for us.
And even Jesus said we should call God "Father"--as loving father who forgives us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, plus giving us our daily bread by sending blessed rain on the farmer's fields of both the just and unjust, or who would even leave 99 of his sheep to hunt for that single lost sheep.
Sadly however, this love only lasts till the judgment day (or till we die (whichever comes first). Because on that day the loving Heavenly Father morphs from a kindly Dr. Jekyll into a sadistic Mr. Hyde (or maybe more like “Sybil”—as in the academy award winning movie of the same name—whose mother loved her one moment, only to beat and torture her the next).
Thus, we have the perennial question that young believers and non-Christians ask:
If God is a God of love, why does He morph into someone who demands eternal punishment? Or: "You're dead now, and your ass is mine!”
Of course, a common modern apologetic reply is that “God does not send anyone to Hell. We send ourselves.” Yea, right! Just like Sybil MADE her psychotic mother punish, beat and torture her.
A god who slaughters families, not to mention cities, nations, and drowns the whole world, is acting in ways it's difficult for any human being with an ounce of compassion to not view as reacting with sheer hate.
That is, we have a god who also blames the victims eternally, as a way to justify the horrific gore He puts them though.
One might picture it this way:
After death the Christian comes into the presence of a God who quickly begins morphing into a sadistic evil vampire-like character.
The Christian, now can’t hold up a cross, or use Holy Water to ward off this God. Instead, Christians must use the blood of Jesus to compel God to draw back from his angry and evil wish to inflict eternal punishment on what he himself created! (Ironically, so the Christian can get to live with this psychotic God forever!).
It's like the movie The Exorcist with the Christian driving back God's unquenchably evil angry desire for eternal vengeance by shouting: “The blood of Christ compels Thee!”
Only now we find God drawing back, but cursing and screaming as he does so!
And this, my friend is the Christian god of love!
It IS punishment...but the reason for eternal hell is multi-faceted and this video does NOT address it.
No where do you see the logic of eternal separation and exact judgment for exact violations explained.
Unless you talk about the historical record of a trangression that needs to be atoned for..as well as the absolute Holy Nature of the Creator of this universe...you have not begun to explain the logic of eternal separation.
There is much more.
And God said to Adam and Eve after the expulsion from the garden of Eden:
Curse you be from toe to eye;
Curse you be until the day you die.
(An old seventeenth witch’s curse)
Breck
Your tone implies a storehouse of inside knowledge about God and you admit the issues are multi-faceted but, then you admit the truth is hidden. Which is it? Or are you just giving voice to your hopes and fears?
Breck
Your tone implies a storehouse of inside knowledge about God and you admit the issues are multi-faceted but, then you admit the truth is hidden. Which is it? Or are you just giving voice to your hopes and fears?"
If the truth is hidden it is hidden to those who do not get on their knees and on their faces (literally) before a Holy Creator and beseech God for such truth and protection from their own self-sufficiency.
I have no fears other than people around me whom I love being eternally separated from a Holy Creator because they did not know what a violation their sin was in the face of the Creator and how it needed to be paid for (either eternally because of logical separation or by God becoming a Man and paying for it).
It is multi-faceted because it is NOT just some being torturing another being...that would be isolating on torture and failing to deal with all of the complexity that makes eternal separation and perfect judgement logical.
Those who love God will prove their love through their faith and trusting in God. Those who do not love God will expose themselves by not trusting in Him.
This is logical.
FTR, I once also had a glimpse of hell that was similar to Bill's except I would question the concept of demons tormenting you...since they are in just as much trouble as the person who did not receive salvation.
In my observation of hell...the worse part of it was that there was absolutely NO Hope and you were completely helpless.
I think hopelessness and helplessness as well as the excruciating pain imposed by the "fire" (which is not just anthropomorphic)are just part of the eternal nightmare. I would not wish what I saw on my own worst enemy...not even Adolf Hitler himself.
The knowledge that it "just is" and that it is perfectly logical brings you to the understanding that it is useless to somehow bring a charge against God.
When you see all of your choices on this earth in this temporary creation AND you have a Perfect Creator Who is omniscient judging
you without emotion - but rather with pure logical assessment (and I am NOT saying that this is the way it is since all visions need to be tested..so I can not say that
God is absolutely indifferent when He judges the unbeliever and not angry at their sin) you know at that moment that THIS IS YOUR REALITY! and there is nothing you can do to change it for all of eternity.
Pascal's wager should have been about eternal safety..and cosmic gambling rather than the way he argued it...there is nothing that compares to the eternal judgment waiting for those who are not born-again Christians. No other religion logically ends up with such an extreme judgement (irony).
And yet born-again Christianity has the greatest demonstration of Self-Sacrificing Love from God to man.
Question everything.
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