This new Blog contains "The post-faith musings of a former Christian College professor and writer for Christianity Today. One of the most interesting Blog posts so far is this one:
Though the catalyst of my atheism was manifest as the result of more recent personal revelations—the casuistry of “Christian” ministries, the inane and incessant behavioral and financial manipulation of the Church, and the absolute irrationality of so-called holy books—as I think back on my life, I realize that my present epiphany began long before I decided that god had nothing to do with any of that.
In 1988, my family moved to Topeka, Kansas, home of the deplorable Fred Phelps and his insipid Westboro Baptist Church. Topeka was a small place (about 110,000 at the time) and multiple times each week I would see Fred and his followers out with their signs, announcing to the world who was a fag, who was a dead fag, who was a fag-enabler and who was simply sinful enough to go to hell with all of the aforementioned fags. They would chant, sing and yell, spreading their hate to all that didn’t believe exactly as they did.
As a child I grew up in Christian home, (my father was a pastor, if you must know) and it always pained me to compare myself (and our church) to the incorrigible Phelps’. We claimed to hold the Bible to be the infallible word of god, they did too. We thought that homosexuality was a sinful abomination, they did too. We believed that those who disagreed with us were headed to eternal torment in hell, they did too. We were certain that all who repented of their egregious offenses against god could be saved and offered eternal life, they did too. Though it seemed that we believed the exact same things, I knew I wasn’t like them, that I couldn’t hate and prejudge as they did; yet when I looked at the doctrine I subscribed to, I was simply less vocal.
Though they may not be as outspoken, all people that believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible as the inspired and inerrant word of god are the Phelps’ of this world. Keeping your mouth shut while believing the same things doesn’t make you better, only a coward unwilling to declare a side in the debate over human decency.
I realized this in my youth, distancing myself from the predominant Evangelical stance on homosexuality, not knowing that, though still in my childhood, I was distancing myself from the oppression of hegemonic Bible-believing Christianity. I knew that I was not like them because deep down, I didn’t believe as they did. I didn’t care enough about an old book to joyfully destroy the lives of those around me, and then congratulate myself for my divinely inspired accomplishment.
People are so much more sacred than my hubris.
At the end of the day, you’re a Phelps or you’re not. You believe the Bible or you don’t. Lack of expression is not an acceptable cloak for tolerance, because you either believe everyone differing from you is destined for hell, or you don’t. You either believe that you are making this world a better place for everyone, or that you are making the next world a better place for your friends. Whether you end up picking the altruists or the elitists is up to you.
All this to say, belief necessitates an extreme; it’s either true or it isn’t. Once one sees the full measure of their belief system expressed, one must fully accept or reject the holistic nature of said system.
God either hates gays or he doesn’t, there is no middle ground.
Such is the lesson I learned as a child, and such is the choice that all persons of faith have to make; for there is no limbo in which to stand.~AB
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243 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 243 of 243Harvey said.."No they don't Gandy, you have no idea...their premises are taken by FAITH because they can't be proven...Get it Gandy...you accept what is not empirical proven...there is no proof for them or validity of them. the foundation of things you "think" are empirically provable are nothing more than faith propositions...
Now do ya get the picture Gandy. that's not voodoo or hocus pocus, those are facts! Only you don't like those facts so you reinterpret them to suit...that's a shame and that's a materialist everyday of the week!"
Ohh i see ,So you are suggesting the possibility your wife gets upset and shows "emotion" when wishing you would spend more time with the kids ...Is stuck in faith mode ....It might be real ..It might not be real ....When her tears drop and happen to hit your skin ...Nope by law of Harvado ..Its still stuck in "Faith"
Maybe you wus just dreaming you felt tears hit your skin ...But ohhh you just touched it and the wetness seemed to be observed to be smeared.
And my logic of a fish being not only smelling but likely to also sting a bit after a few twacks...Is still only a matter of faith?
If you wasnt so far away Harv id suggest we use scientific method and test that idea that you suggest its only really a matter of faith ...And we could show the live scientific method findings, live on TV .Test if my logic was actually real logic, or just a matter of faith like you so kindly suggest.
And math is "only" a matter of faith too by your books ?.
According to the laws of Harvado "there is no proof for them or validity of them. of all these three things ?
Mate you live faithfully further in laa laa land than id previously realized.
Still at least doubtful faithful folks, that might happen to read this pointless dribble you put forward ...Can see this is the type of lowly dribble a C.O.G.I.C Pastor stoops to these days ,in trying to scramble to find any feeble bullshit argument left he thinks he can find.
Lets nail this down a little Harvey shall we.
If we can some how set up a test that can be publicised "live on TV".
Would you agree to publically test the "logic" that the "experience" of being hit with a fish will likely be both smelling and even sting.
And pit that over against say ...maybe you calling on God to appear! or show some miracle! or some way you choose of proving a godly "experience" !.
So the public in the U.S.A can decide for all themselves , what might in fact be said by "experience" and "observation" as what might very likely be closer to being actually a matter of "faith" compared to "empirically provable".
What do you say Harvey?, are you keen to take on this challenge! and do the test live on TV ? ...Or dont you have enough "faith" in your rhetoric and chicken bone rattling?
As if anything I said was gonna make them become Christians...that's such a big farce of a lie and shelter...
Let's expose these charlatans...They get in a debate don't like what was said then cry, "Why aren't the Christians displaying Christian morality?" when they'll spend every waking moment claiming that Christian morality doesn't exist...then they start to whine and cry over it...
Then stuff like..."it's people like you that's the reason I'm not a Christian"...no it isn't and that's a total lie...You're a grow behind man...nobody should have that much control over you...at least that's what you SAY...If you had met someone like me when you still had some sense you wouldn't be in the godless condition you are...senseless...
Let's talk rationality for a minute. Vox was 100% spot on...atheists are most irrational and hate it when their bogus excuses are not only addressed but overturned...
Look be an unbeliever, but don't be one on the false premise that there are not thousands of excellent answers to your pitiful assertions...I know I've been on point with ya...U just don't like it...SO WHAT??? I don't like a lot of things, that doesn't change any of them.
Gandy,
take a course on philosophy and logic and get back at me...you have no clue and all you're doing is talking about what happens AFTER something has been accepted as being true...your argument is too late...
the premises of logic ARE NOT empirical...in other words you have to assume certain premises to even get started...this amounts to no more than a mere faith proposition...Principles of parsimony have no empirical proof.
Your whole little scenario has nothing do with the issue.
Math is the same...in fact prove mind. Then prove that anyone has one.
Before you get started on that task, that's has nothing to do with the brain...
District Supt. Harvey Burnett said... "Gandy,
I guess that's those "animalistic tendancies" huh?
LOL!!!"
Yes exactly Harvey .You are a prime example to prove there is no input of any God-/s ...Your suggestion of a type of tit for tat senario, in your suggesting people happen to die of both car accidents and of eating to many burgers, so in your animalistic mind that equals it must then be also thought quite ok that faith abuse is allowed to exist.
Is a very fine example its actually a type of animal instinct type thinking you are also using.Even if very sadly so happens, its actually still stuck back in caveman days! uggg
We see absolutely no evidence of any godliness displayed in any of your thoughts Harvey.
And i do fear, sadly maybe you have some real catching up to do,to free yourself of your old instincts of the by gone days of the cave-man of old times.
I think most likely its gonna take a whole lot more! than "faith" if you ever wish to really achieve! catching up with some modern day human thinking Harv
Just take up the challange Harvey.Lets get you on stage on TV and get doing some fish-slapping .You can bring Voxy along ta hold ya hand if you wish.
Even get ole Voxy ta try and help ya congure up the Godly experience.
How about it Harv ? ..Im keen! bet others here are also keen! to see you and ole Voxy be prepared ta put ya money where ya mouths is ..Live on TV, in a logic-fish-slapping "experience" verses God conjuring "experience"
See which one measures up closer to only being a matter of "faith"
Come on! come on!.. take up the challenge
What happened to ya faith man?
Has it packed its wee baggy all of a sudden,and gone off on holiday?
Gandy,
I see they did a hack job on you in that cult you were in...That's very bad and very sad. Hope nobody ever has that experience.
All I know is this...God answers prayer and I've both seen and experienced it for my self...None of your clown and circus meandering at the fact neither scare nor bothers me.
The only thing you prove is that 1- you have no clues as to what a miracle is and 2- if you saw one you wouldn't be able to identify it and 3- you live in a continued fog and need to explain and rationalize why you don't believe.
All of that is uncalled for...I intentionally got in this thread because you guys were so confident of your ideas and all I've seen is excuses for all kinds of garbage...
Then blame one of the few Christians that will talk to ya for any length of time...i only do this because you continue to offer sill propositions and like Loftus, I like the entertainment... which is one thing we have in common.
You know what Christian say about God rejecters and anti-Christ advocates such as you guys...you're a bunch of babies that can't take the heat!!!
I see it...you cuss, scream, get all emotional...granted I know it's emotional stuff...religion debates always are, but you guys are a trip...
That's DC...the tripped out blog!
Gandy,
You said:"We see absolutely no evidence of any godliness displayed in any of your thoughts Harvey."
What's that? You're so BLIND you wouldn't recognize a door if it hit you in between the eyes!!! How could I expect you to recognize what "godly" behavior is...You just spent the entire commentary talking about how God doesn't exist...you see that's what I mean by irrational...now you measure me by a "mythical" standard in your mind...
The truth is YOU KNOW that there is a difference in godliness...you don't measure me to atheistic standard do you??? No it's only to a "godly" standard...Why is that? maybe because you know that a "godly" standard is higher than you animalistic standard...
Only the animal that you claim to be doesn't allow you to see it...Why? Because you're blinded by unbelief...your disposition immediately turns it off...That's YOU not me...
You can't teach what you don't know Gandy, plain and simple!
BTW,
I do this everyday Gandy...I don't need to wait for a tv appearance...cameras can follow me as I move and do...
Every Sunday I'm in the same place as I have been for over 15 years...Praying, God healing and doing extraordinary things in the lives of his people.
Where you at? Where are the real nonbelievers? I know...cowering behind a computer pretending that internet atheism is taking the world by storm when the facts are that internet atheism is dead and weak as water. Ooooh it is highly amusing...like a two headed cow at Barnum and Bailey's...but it's dead as a doorknob!
To whom it may concern:
I visited the Honorable District Superintendent's website for the first time just a few minutes ago.
I now understand why Harvey is so belligerently defensive of his Christian beliefs. I hope he won't mind this gratuitous analysis of his motivations, since he seems perfectly willing to indulge his inner psychologist where my motivations are concerned.
Brother Harvey may not think so, but I do understand. Life is unfair and has certainly stacked the cards against him. Who could blame him for covering himself in the borrowed authority and majesty of an omnipotent God. The prospects for a Black man to acquire and administer power in this country are not very encouraging (despite the fact of a Black president)--and even less so if one possess limited intellectual power or--God forbid--happens to be a Black atheist. So, I don't blame him for sticking to his guns, he's not likely to acquire power or authority in any other field of endeavor.
Now, if this analysis of the District Superintendent's motivations seems unduly harsh, so be it. He didn't hesitate to ascribe the most wicked and cowardly motivations to me. Turnabout is fair play. What this analysis is not is racist, since I am also a Black male and fully aware of the handicaps Black males face in this country. So please don't come at me with B.S. accusations of racism.
Harvey said..."The truth is YOU KNOW that there is a difference in godliness...you don't measure me to atheistic standard do you??? No it's only to a "godly" standard...Why is that? maybe because you know that a "godly" standard is higher than you animalistic standard..."
Harvey Harvey Harvey..No lets be honest here..Stop trying to twist matters ..What i know is you faithful for thousands of years now, have suggested this IS some higher Godly standard.
But we never see any honest sign of it ...Not in the faithful ...Not in anything.
No honest evidence .Absolutely None.Nil.Nada.Zilch
And we should be seeing some good evidence if it actually existed.
I see no difference in you Harvey.I measure you by my atheist standard, because i simply dont see anything more.When i see your tit for tat attitude,its nothing higher ...If anything its backward
Now you were the one here waffling on about how there is no real evidence of logic that we can observe the experience of.I suggest a logical suggestion, that slapping you with a fish ,is likely not only going to smell, by use of "logic" i suggest it will likely sting lots also.
Take up the challenge Harv ,lets test if this "logic" is real and is able to be put into some real "experience" or not because it only a matter of faith like you try suggesting.You suggest its only a matter of faith, well... if thats so (honestly true),then you got absolutely no worry about getting up there on stage have ya right?
Quit the stalling Harv.We gonna finally get this faith rhetoric pinned down some ...Cause we just simply sick of the continued bullshit.
You and ole Voxy can try to conjure up your God and try and make your experience of God match up to the "experience" of testing if this thing "logic" is a matter of being "real" or only just "faith" like your God ideas.
You go on to say.."What's that? You're so BLIND you wouldn't recognize a door if it hit you in between the eyes!!! How could I expect you to recognize what "godly" behavior is...You just spent the entire commentary talking about how God doesn't exist...you see that's what I mean by irrational...now you measure me by a "mythical" standard in your mind..."
Atleast i can say i have a little more than just "faith", that things like ,emotion,logic,and math actually really do honestly exist Harv :)
Seems like though you might use them yourself all the time.Its you that wouldnt be honest enough to even recognize their existence.Faith gets in your way
Yeah ..thats right ..i guess i could have spent my time arguing a pink unicorn dont exist either,but would you still considder that just as irrational of me mien Harvado?.
You probably think fairys and ghoblens dont exist either,should you argue maybe they dont ? ..Or whould that simply be very irattional of you?.
Dont you see Harv...How your faith is deluding your use of simple logic and common sense.
Harvey.
"Man always had a choice. The choice was outlined, “don’t do and live, do and die” that’s called choice. Now under your materialist rubric NO choice exists. You only have a response to genetic processing and programming (however that programming came to be is another story.)"
First. Don't put words in my mouth. I said nothing about "genetic programming"; that's YOUR lack of scientific knowledge showing.
Second, twisting the argument from my "god's omniscience precludes free will (and it DOES!)" to your idiotic claim that genetics precludes free will is so imcredibly stoopid that I don't even know where to begin.
Third, the “don’t do and live, do and die” 'bit' doesn't work. What if man had "freely chosen" to "not do"? The Bible would have been a very short book, indeed, since Jesus would not have been necessary.
YOU'RE the religious believer. Believe what you want; but it has no influence on reality, and doesn't rewuire that I or any other non-believers are subject to your delusions.
The sooner you admit that your theology is full of gaping holes, the sooner you can understand that the reason atheists oppose you and your Christian buddies is because we're tired of being threatened with a one way trip to a hell that we don't believe in either.
Harvey asked,
"So what does that mean? That’s a statement of faith... Atheists “believe”... OK…when it’s me and a “belief” you harp and holla, when it’s you we’re supposed to just say ok? Yea right..."
The difference is crystal clear! You believe what you believe without a shred of "evidence" for your belief. You want to call the Bible evidence, but NOTHING on this earth supports that claim.
Atheists and other non-believers BELIEVE what we believe because the EVIDENCE we all see (including YOU, but you deny the evidence because it shows your book to be false) is REAL, and has REAL application and benefits.
This difference, along with the principle from scientific inquiry that nothing can be absolutely "proven", is why atheists say "BELIEVE" rather than "KNOW".
But of course, you KNOW that the Bible is "Trooth"...
I remain a non-believer.
Harvey said (incoherently, I might add), in response to my statement,
Man invented god in Man's image, that's why he's such a colossal bastard.
"...Now, you just finished telling me that man is not evil neither are the things he does evil, only “intentionally harmful”…I suppose the definition of man’s potential problem increases to “colossal bastard”. What is that and who holds that standard? If man (as you say) invented God, then man is a colossal bastard! Does that apply to you also, or just the rest of us in the world?
Would it have helped if I capitalized the "H"?
You missed it entirely!
Let me help your puny intellect:
"Man invented god in Man's image, that's why He's such a colossal bastard."
I wasn't implying that Man was a colossal bastard, I was saying unequivocally that GOD is a colossal bastard (in the mythological stories we read, but YOU believe is Trooth).
No one can argue with you Harvey. Your command of the English is woefully inadequate, and your powers of perception (continually mischaracterizing arguments, misattributing quotes to the wrong person, etc.) are so utterly lacking that it's NO WONDER you BELIEVE the drivel that's in the Bible.
Get over YOURSELF. They're just stories, and not even GOOD stories.
Harvey said,"
Let's talk rationality for a minute. Vox was 100% spot on...atheists are most irrational and hate it when their bogus excuses are not only addressed but overturned..."
You haven't overturned a single thing since you started this rant.
Blasphemy is a victimless crime.
"Gandy,
take a course on philosophy and logic and get back at me..."
You, Harvey have absolutely NO GRASP of logic. You demonstrate it every time you post.
And your grasp of English is tstill horrible. It's no wonder no one else will publish your "books".
Bronx,
I ain't mad atchya. Your opinion is your opinion. You said this though:
So, I don't blame him for sticking to his guns, he's not likely to acquire power or authority in any other field of endeavor.
That's not exactly true although I understand the opinion and the vantage point. I am a owner of multiple business (more business than money for sure) and have a certain amount of opportunities in other fields not related to ministry. So success could be what I make it.
And for those that don't understand your comments are in no way close to some kind of racist comments...so we're good!
BTW: IF i give the opinion that nothing an atheist can do or think is good...MY APOLOGIES to all...that's certainly not true. My disagreements with any non believers cease at the world view and interpretations of fact...not the person.
I would go to dinner with almost any of you and try my best to get you to pay and I'll bet we'd have a good time...so, my talk may be to the point, but do me like Gandy...if you don't like it say so, slap back and we'll move on.
Peace!
Gandolf said,
"...We see absolutely no evidence of any godliness displayed in any of your thoughts Harvey."
Simple. True.
When I said "You insult us, and judge us continually Harvey. Remove the plank from YOUR eye, Pharisee!"
this is what I was talking about: For you to judge us is against the principles of YOUR belief system, yet you indulge yourself in judging others continually.
And the charge of "Phaerisee" stands:
Pharisee,
"a self-righteous or sanctimonious person"
Gandy,
You said:"But we never see any honest sign of it ...Not in the faithful ...Not in anything."
Yes you do Gandy...I don't struggle with those animalistic thoughts that you describe...murder isn't a consideration...not from evolution, it's because of what Christ did in my life. So you see a difference, recognize a difference and more to the point, hold forth that the Christian standard is higher than average...thus your pointing me to that standard as to say that I'm beneath it...
You mythologize that standard and that's not twisting nothing...That's exactly what you do Gandy...If that's not the case then point me to an atheist that you think I should have the character of...you don't do that, you point back to things like "the golden rule" and even say things like, "Harvey you're not following the golden rule" remember Gandy...do your remember that? it's never "Your's not following the tenets of humanism" It's always a biblical standard for conduct that you use. Always.
It's no big issue and I understand it. In the closet you hold the biblical standard so high that you mythologize it and then claim it's too high to be real...well it's not...It's real and it's not a myth. So don't play with me...I see and hear ya clearly.
Harvey asks'
"...you don't measure me to [an] atheistic standard do you???"
If we did, you would fail, miserably. Just like your religion fails.
Gearbutt,
Where's the standard then? As I said that you can't answer...Where's the standard? If it's in you and your mind I REJECT it...So where is it?
Where is anything under your rubric if true that I have to act and treat you a certain way...
Are you silly or what?
You assessment means NOTHING...these is no such thing as self-righteousness under atheist morality...it's all relative and nothing is absolutely certain...You have no banner to waive or judge me by in any form or shape...why, I think you're the one that believes that flat out murder isn't an evil action it's only an "intentionally harmful" act...What a FARCE!
You cannot bring even the slightest judgement to me...you're not qualified to do so...Mr. "intentionally harmful"!
Pleeeease!
Here's a Gearhead IDIOT,
He says"And your grasp of English is tstill horrible. It's no wonder no one else will publish your "books"."
Now I suppose that "tstill" is a world that we're supposed to take from this fool to mean something????
Now I see why you don't write ANYTHING at all...obviously because you don't know what the heck you're talking about!
Do yourself a favor, get off the pot and the crack, come back after rehab!
Hey I looked it up and "tstill" is both a world and a word...It was on Avatar!
Harvey said,
"...It's always a biblical standard for conduct that you use. Always.
It's no big issue and I understand it."
We (non-believers) are only recognizing the pervasiveness entrenched in the general society when referring to "biblical standards", NOT the notion that there's inherent 'truth' in it.
Why does the last lemming jump off the cliff, Harvey? Is it because all the other million or so that went first were "right"?
Your suggestion that we use 'biblical standards' fails in that the only reason to do so is because of sheer numbers, not because it's true.
And nice attempt to place yourself in the "righteous" side of THAT scale, Pharisee.
Gandy,
You said:"Atleast i can say i have a little more than just "faith", that things like ,emotion,logic,and math actually really do honestly exist Harv :)"
Take any one of them and prove it. Just one, any one...
They are all immaterial...no extension in time and space, offer no empirical verification...In fact I GUARANTEE that in order to even postulate their existence you have to assume certain facts before the investigation begins...Certain things must be assumed ie; taken by faith, before you can even set forth a truth regarding either one...That's a GUARANTEE.
Math...answer this, what is one? Under a purely naturalistic view, how can one exist by itself? Prove that Gandy and I'll be impressed.
Harvey asks,
"Where's the standard then?"
I told you before: the standard is the Golden Rule (generic pre-Christian version).
We all have to share this planet. And it's getting crowded, so we have to have ways to get along.
This is simple, and requires no GODLY advice.
Harvey said,
"...why, I think you're the one that believes that flat out murder isn't an evil action it's only an "intentionally harmful" act...What a FARCE!"
First, Ryan was the one who said "intentionally harmful". Misattribution.
Second, calling me names is indicative that I've pushed your buttons to such an extent that you have to resort to those tactics because your ARGUMENTS have FAILED.
Third, "tstill" was a typo that I missed correcting. Show mw where I've used bad grammar, like you constantly do.
To attack me on the basis of one typo mistake, is less than juvenile, especially coming from someone who claims the title "pastor".
And that whole thing about goading us to answer you about "evil" was just your desire to drag us into a trap of your own design. We tried to get you to speak plainly about what you "really" meant when you said "evil", but you refused to answer for two days.
So I tackled it, even knowing that your response was going to take the form of "HA! I gotcha! That's not what I meant!"
It would not have mattered how ANYONE had argued it; your response was fixed beforehand. I could hear you breathing through your mouth from here.
Now, here's yet another of the many illustrations of STUPIDITY coming from Gearbutt,
he says"...to your idiotic claim that genetics precludes free will is so imcredibly stoopid that I don't even know where to begin."
Well first why don't you begin by using a dictionary...I mean "imcredibly" and "stoopid" I'm sure they aren't words, at least in worlds other than Pandora.
Maybe you can use "imcredibly" and "stoopid" as bookends to your new library!!!
Now the only reason I do this (because I don't care about these type of errors) is because you're so willing, eager and quick to point out my flaws in the use of English, grammar and spelling like you're a school teacher...you're an idiot too...If I'm one, U R 2! Keep that in mind please.
In addition I can tell you don't know jack about causality and contingency so your arguments are unconvincing and not worth my time or attention.
Here's another of your many mistakes:"Believe what you want; but it has no influence on reality, and doesn't rewuire that I or any other non-believers are subject to your delusions."
Now tell me, is that semi-colon supposed to be there? How about "rewuire"...Isn't that supposed to be spelled REWIRE??? I just wanna know!
Now we wouldn't go down this road if you weren't so filled with hate and rage...Are you trying to be "intentionally harmful" or what?
You have nothing to criticize me on except typos.
Causality and contingency are arguments used by philosophers to cloud the issues. The semicolon is fine where I put it.
Save your sermon for the sheeple who agree with everything you mumble in the aisles of your COGIC church.
You have nothing intelligent to contribute, that much is clear.
And no, it was supposed to be "REQUIRE". I accidentally hit the 'w' insteaad of the 'q', which you may note are right next to each other on the keyboard, and missed correcting myself.
You twist arguments, misuse common words, can't remember who said what, AND you can't spell.
So STFU
Here's another of the ignoramus and hardly famous:
He said:"Man invented god in Man's image, that's why He's such a colossal bastard."
Then he covers his tracks and says:
I wasn't implying that Man was a colossal bastard, I was saying unequivocally that GOD is a colossal bastard (in the mythological stories we read, but YOU believe is Trooth).
NO buddy...you should know (although I'll give it to you that you don't) that man can't create something other than is familiar with his experience. Since you believe man created God and you state that God is a "colossal bastard" then the inference is clear, man also must be that...there's no escaping it.
We're not talking about "Alice In Wonderland" we're talking about a book that claims moral value and code of living for every human...works of fiction don't make that claim...If man created God, and God is a colossal bastard" as stated by you, then MAN is a colossal bastard or at the very least a bastard according to your logic and what you lay out...
Live with it, you "sub-colossal bastard"...LOL!!!!You are too funny Gear...I'm sorry I can't laugh with you...I am laughin' at you...OK...just so we're clear.
See this is what I'm talking about...would someone read this and let's play Sesame Street:
No one can argue with you Harvey. Your command of the English is woefully inadequate, and your powers of perception (continually mischaracterizing arguments, misattributing quotes to the wrong person, etc.) are so utterly lacking that it's NO WONDER you BELIEVE the drivel that's in the Bible.
Now I guess that's supposed to offend and make some powerful statement...but let's look ad see what we see...
He says I an not an English major, fair enough I'm not...But I'm no speller either but I have enough sense to know that no one can be "mischaracterizing" and "misattributing" at the same time...maybe we could do one or the other and maybe we could simply Mischaracterize but not mischaracterizing.
As I said, I look over u if u do 2...
Here's the "colossal bastard's" excuses:
And no, it was supposed to be "REQUIRE". I accidentally hit the 'w' insteaad of the 'q', which you may note are right next to each other on the keyboard, and missed correcting myself."
NOW, no one makes mistakes but the Jr. Colossal Bastard...I guess your finger got stuck on that a when you wrote "Insteaad" too...
So, "Jr. Colossal Bastard" are we to just look over your mistakes as if they are nothing, or should we point out your mistakes on the regular???
I mean you so ELOQUENTLY point out mine as if they are doing something to steal your peace...Are you trying to be "intentionally harmful" you axe murderer you...or is STUPIDITY just your hobby???
Inquiring minds would like to know...
Look I'm out...I can see there's nothing more to contribute and entertainment has reached an all time high...
Later!
Harvey said,
"Here's another of the ignoramus and hardly famous:
He said:"Man invented god in Man's image, that's why He's such a colossal bastard."
Then he covers his tracks and says:
I wasn't implying that Man was a colossal bastard, I was saying unequivocally that GOD is a colossal bastard (in the mythological stories we read, but YOU believe is Trooth).
NO buddy...you should know (although I'll give it to you that you don't) that man can't create something other than is familiar with his experience. Since you believe man created God and you state that God is a "colossal bastard" then the inference is clear, man also must be that...there's no escaping it."
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Talk about covering tracks!!!
Do you seriously expect ANYONE reading this to believe that YOU were not UTTERLY WRONG about what I said in the first place, and now you're trying to say that "no, I did understand, and here's my backpedalling explanation"..."
is in any way believable?
You fail yet again.
If you had anything constructive to contribute, you would have done so before now, and would have no need to throw insults.
I am glad you show yourself for the incompetent that you are.
"Mischaracterization" means not understanding the argument, and you do this so regularly it looks intentional.
"Misattribution" is where you say that someone said something that someone else said, and you do that pretty regularly, too.
AND...
I'm not an English major. I have an engineering degree, but I could write better than you do NOW when I was in fifth grade.
For someone who wishes to be known for "rightly dividing the Word", you have a curious LACK of mastery of the medium in which you practice.
And Blasphemy is STILL a victimless crim.e
Go back to your adoring sheeple, and preach to the choir. At least THEY pretend to enjoy listening to you.
Harvey said..."They are all immaterial...no extension in time and space, offer no empirical verification...In fact I GUARANTEE that in order to even postulate their existence you have to assume certain facts before the investigation begins...Certain things must be assumed ie; taken by faith, before you can even set forth a truth regarding either one...That's a GUARANTEE."
Well Harvey with such "strong faith" like that surely you just cant go wrong! so you wont be "afraid" to accept the challenge! i suggested.Do take it up, and please please get ole Voxy interested in agreeing to coming along to hold your hand.
We look forward to see you both on stage ..Maybe the comedy channel?...Penn and Teller maybe?.
But anyway should be interesting and make for great TV .The day Voxy and the C.O.G.I.C Pastor publically pit "logic" of a fish slapping experience up against matters of faith .To cut the rhetoric! and try proving both "logic" and "faith" do "honestly" lay at the very same level.
Now come on quit your stalling.If you are afraid to take up this challange! you are simply not worth arguing with anymore here about this subject.It simply becomes obvious and very plain to see you fear! because you know that the logic of my challenge is infact a matter of being a whole lot more than only being a matter of faith.
If you wish to still argue my logic honestly actually is nothing more than faith.
Then save yourself from looking like the gutless Pastor full of rhetoric, but of little real honest substance!, like you are now getting in very grave danger of exposing yourself of being here on this blog. Simply agree to my challenge, having strong faith in also being able to prove your point in public on stage, with your friend Voxy taking part and holding your hand, if you feel you honestly can.
If you dont its so very blatantly obvious .You obviously have absolutely no honest faith in that what you tried to argue.
Whats worse it will become also very obvious you are even far to gutless and dishonest to even dare admit it.
You are making yourself look sad and stupid here Harvey.I simply ask you to explain why not? take up my challenge!, if you honestly have such faith in that what you had tried to suggest?.
It can only be that you are obviously worried and afraid, because you know we actually can prove "logic" is actually a little bit more than just being a simple matter of "faith"!.
Harvey said..."Yes you do Gandy...I don't struggle with those animalistic thoughts that you describe...murder isn't a consideration...not from evolution, it's because of what Christ did in my life. So you see a difference, recognize a difference and more to the point, hold forth that the Christian standard is higher than average...thus your pointing me to that standard as to say that I'm beneath it..."
Harvado look my friend you dont need to be a murderer or even just have thoughts of murdering, to still be seen to seem to still be, stuck back in having many cave man type thoughts and attitudes.
By fact of your very acceptance of your ancient faith you are possessed and stuck back in some very cave man type thoughts Harvado.
Though you are seen here trying to twist and screw what GearHedEd had said about man being a "colossal bastard ", most of us here understand what he means.
And when we look at your cave man bible thought and morals etc, we can vividly see what nasty " colossal bastard " type thoughtless ignorant thinking, some ancient cave man type people actually still had, that could allow them to even think of such nasty thoughtless things.
They were such ignorant nasty people that their " colossal bastard " type ignorant uncivilized minds, dreamed up the likelhood of cruel gods (cruel because their own minds were still cave man style and cruel and uncivilized)who even discussed smashing babies heads against rocks,and thoughts of offering their own daughter up for sex, to save a male from being raped by other men.
GearHedEd is correct these ancient mens minds were still stuck in the rut of being uncivilized "colossal bastard" cave man style thoughts.
Really not so very far from what you still are today sometimes Harv ...L.o.L
You the Pastor " colossal bastard " bully cave man type religious freak, along with your faithful cronies, will ALL still look "down on" and "despise" and "condemn" any folks who simply happen to have found some love and happiness, in a same sex relationship.You the cave man Pastor " colossal bastard " type, who still follows a ancient nasty faith designed by ancient " colossal bastard " cave men ,which demotes women to being the lessor human being, and holds them in subjection, to old nasty thoughtless ignorant cave man style ( colossal bastard ) faithful folks thoughts and faith rules.
So you see my friend Harvado, you just dont need to be thinking of murder, to still actually be stuck back in some " colossal bastard " cave man style type uncivilized anamilistic views.
And when you go and call me a moaner for openly discussing the matter of faith abuse.
It is just your backward anamalistic "colossal bastard " ancient uncivilized cave man type attitude, taking over you Harvado and carrying you back towards being a little more uncivilized.
You need to get far better control on your ancient animal instincts! Harvey.Being stuck in following the ancient faith of cave man style "colossal bastards" lines of thinking ,very obviously isnt really helping you much!.That has become very plain to see
So...maybe you should try becoming atheist?
So happens we are very civilized and forgiving folk !.And so we wont be needing, to have any ancient cave man "colossal bastard" type thinking and idiotic ideas, which condemns you to need to think of forever rotting in some mythical place "colossal bastard" cave man called hell.
Gandolph,
Hate to break this to you, but see my post of 8:01 on June 12.
I never implied that men were "colossal bastards", but that the god that men created WAS a colossal bastard.
Harvey was the one who misread the statement, and ran with it.
GearHedEd said... "Gandolph,
Hate to break this to you, but see my post of 8:01 on June 12.
I never implied that men were "colossal bastards", but that the god that men created WAS a colossal bastard.
Harvey was the one who misread the statement, and ran with it."
Hey GearhedEd i understand.But still it realy takes men that are colossal bastards ,to ever be able to think up the idea of a God that they created that was a colossal bastard.
If the people that thought the God up were kind nice civilized people, its very unlikely they would have thought to create a God that was a colossel bastard.It would have been far more likely the god they created would have been a colossel nice bastard ,instead.
IE Gods were often made in the much the same image/thinking of those men that thought them up .Ancient people were often quite tough and harsh, they often lived tough harsh unforgiving lives,and so became tough harsh and unforgiving themselves by nature.Thats how they could think of doing such harsh stuff, such as sometimes even sacrificing their own children etc.
Them were the days when they nailed people on crosses and maybe might even think to stone you or pour hot oil down your throat etc.
Many were colossel mean bastards, because thats how their lives were,and their idea of God-/s wasnt any nice god ..they was colossel mean bastards too
Right, I get it.
If the men were bad, they had to go beyond that to the superlative for descriptions of their god, otherwise he'd be just another puny being.
Still, that wasn't a logical extension that I was making at the time I said it.
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