Richard Carrier v. Mike Licona Debate the Resurrection

See what you think.


Scott said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Adrian said...

I need to see a written debate to cleanse the palate. Do theologians do them any more or do they recognize the dangers involved?

James said...

1. The hidden god illustrated is an effective argument, as Licona admits. Effective tactic: ask why didn’t/doesn’t God do X to bring non-believer around? Related: God should scrooge me.

2. A very civil, mutually respectful debate in which the back and forth format worked very well--point-scoring, but willingness to seek the truth as well.

3. Carrier should make it clearer at the outset how little he knows--that he’s only guessing what could plausibly have occurred (in contrast to the implausibility of resurrection).

4. In response to the world-view move, Carrier should respond that on ANY world view, resurrection is improbable--if it isn’t, anything goes and the arguments and beliefs are unconstrained.

5. How can one possibly “bracket” a world-view? There’s the world, here’s us, we have a view of what’s there--A view, our view, a world-view.

6. Licona, like Witherington and Craig, is today about everyday events or reports, highly credulous. For them, the dead come calling on us today. Moreland/Keener, Licona with them, are here extreme examples, finding contemporary reports of resuscitations highly worthy of investigation.

7. Craig is central to the apologetic enterprise today.

8. It’s a stride forward to acceptability that an atheist is given a respectful hearing at Washburn University in Topeka. Outside the closet, atheists can come out and believers and doubters come over. (Though judging from the applause, Carrier is outnumbered ten to one or worse--even towards the end.)

9. Craig et al have a very restricted historical/psychological imagination. How could an enemy of Jesus have possibly hallucinated his appearance?

10. What’s the evidence that Saul was a rising star?

Steven Carr said...

Has Mike Licona abandoned claiming in debates that the empty tomb is a fact?

Paul said...

Good for you! I like the tone of your blog and tend to think that atheists and religious progressives generally have more in common than either of these groups do with religious conservatives.

John said...


What Carrier said about schizo-typal makes sense. As you know I'm schizo-affective and I've had some experiences myself. I won't go into the details but suffice it to say I've been thinking along these lines before I heard carrier.

John said...

The delusions I was having seem as real as my own existence.

I've also experienced the hypnogogic hallucination where my spirit left my body.