Divine protection is spiritual protection. God promises to cause all things to work together for good for those that love Him. To live is Christ to die is gain.
Well, the links have disappeared when I view the post. But I'll leave a comment anyway, because I've been thinking about this, caused by the report of a church coming back from Mexico which was involved in an accident, resulting in the death of several of the youth group members.
More times than I can count, as an evangelical I used to pray for "God's traveling mercies" before setting out on a long car drive with others.
I realize now, of course, that such praying had zero impact on the odds of getting into a fatal accident. But what was my response when people said "why didn't God hear the prayer of the kids in that church van"? God's ways are above our ways, he had a purpose that we couldn't know."
Well, if that's the case, then why pray? If God's mind is made up, or fate is pre-destined, prayer has no use. Then of course, comes all the defenses of Calvinism.
Ray's response is a load of BS too. All the hundreds of time we prayed "traveling mercies prayers", we weren't praying for "spiritual" protection (what kind of evil is going to overtake you in a car journey, anyway?), we were damn well praying not to get in a wreck! Be honest, Ray!
We are to be heavenly minded. God doesn't promise that there won't nightmares of this world. The promise is that He will work all things together for good for those that love Him. To live is Christ and to die is gain.
Ya exactly Ray, the prayers are in the realm of spirituality just where no one can confirm it or criticaly evaluate it.....lol....I always found this excuses rich!
I remeber some christian friends I had when I myself was a christian. These two friends of mine went to a coffee shop one night. Some drunkin guy started picking a fight with them. One of my friends ran inside the coffee shop for protection and the drunk guy chased him inside. The drunk guy threw him to the ground and began to pound his face in. Although this friend of mine was calling out- "my God will protect me" the drunk just continued to beat him till the cops showed up.
I remember when I heard about it, I was really confused why this actually happened to him. Of course all the excuses came out-"God was using this for His purposes" and "God was with him the whole time".
I just look back at it now and I actually laugh every time I picture him getting punched and saying God will protect him...lol...
Twice Ray has quoted "all things work together for the good of those that love him". I quoted that hundreds of times myself over the course of several decades.
All that is Ray, is a "get out of jail free" card for God. Use it if someone dies that we were praying for. Use it when our prayers seem to go unanswered. Use it to avoid facing the fact that prayer consists of talking to thin air and making yourself feel good that you've done something, when in actual fact nothing has changed.
Ray said, Divine protection is spiritual protection.
I agree, but only if you're telling us that divine protection is just one more of those unobservable things you like to wish for. Since you don't expect spiritual things to be observable, then anything at all can provide "spiritual protection." Specifically, I myself can promise and deliver just as much spiritual protection as any god, including the gods of the Christianities. Since spiritual protection doesn't do anything, it can be done by a random stone, an arbitrary table leg, or a plain ol' run-of-the-mill chihuahua.
Not doing anything is easy, so most religions use it a lot. In the theistic Christianities, their gods are made of not doing anything. All the Christianities which use a god, liberally apply apologetics to explain why their god doesn't do anything, thereby also explaining why they can't and don't expect their god to do anything. Every single day, those Christianities which use gods, write more words explaining their god's inaction than there are words in their Bible's. Since believer's gods aren't expected to deliver, believers can and do imagine their gods promising the moon. If I was allowed the same apologetics, Ray, I would promise you the moon and much much more.
You said, God promises to cause all things to work together for good for those that love Him.
I can do that, too, if you 1) permit me the apologetics you grant your god; 2) go along with me working in the same mysterious ways as your god; and, 3) surrender to my inscrutable plans or will. These are all variations on one overarching theme: you do not expect your god(or me) to do anything. Believe me, I can do just as much nothing as your god.
Ray, Let me be your god, Ray. I promise to do everything you say your current god does subject to the same rules according to which your current god operates. You can say I am Russ, The One God, World Without End, The Be All and End All, the Alpha and the Omega, blah, blah, blah. You can make that shit as flowery and poetic and mysterious and nonsensical as you like. Whatever you want. As long as I'm only as obligated as your current god, you can say anything you like about me. Just remember, though, if you piss me off, all hell will break loose. Earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, tsunamis, and other natural disasters will be all over the place, enough to make it seem like I'm not even there. Consider yourself warned.
So, I promise you eternal life subject to certain exemptions, caveats and exceptions.
I promise to protect you under particular circumstances which could pass for completely natural occurrences.
I promise that medical science will continue to make errors in diagnosis which you can attribute to me as miracles, unless it makes me look bad, of course. When the doc errors in saying someone's dying in a week, but they live for a month, you must say that you know it was me who did that. Just forget the efforts by all the medical professionals. Focus on me. It's all about me, your eternal Russ(ooh, eternal, Your Lord Russ, likes that). But, if the physician gives 'em a year and they're inconsiderate enough to bite it in a week, don't you blame that shit on me. Finger anyone you like, or go back to the rules we agreed to for your Holy of Holies, Russ Almighty: apologetics, mystery, and my divine plan.
Remember: you can imagine all the goodies I'm gonna give ya, or all the disaster relief I'm supposed to pull out of my ass, anything you want, but I get to do things by the same rules the Christianities use for their gods, meaning I don't have to do anything at all, and if I want you to imagine I did something, I get to disguise it to look like it happened naturally or to have it appear that some goody two shoes intentionally did it themselves. Them's the rules.
In a nutshell, good things count in my favor and are to be hailed as proof of the Infinite Goodness of Russ, while the not-so-good never ever counts against me and always gets explained away using one or more of the many time-honored excuses. Got it, buddy?
You want 72 virgins in heaven? Only a cheapskate would make such a promise. Hell, I promise the same 72 upfront with a new one thrown in every few millennia. Sing my praises as Russ, the Infinitely Generous. Heck, Ray, if you like, I'll make sure that after you're dead, you never have to see your mother in law ever again. How's that for Russ the All-Knowing, knowing what you really want?
Follow me as your new god, making all the allowances you make for me that you make for your current god, Ray, and I will guarantee you will never notice the difference, except for the heavenly vision of not being stuck forever with the same 72 non-virgins from day 73 on.
Clare, Go yea therefore into the world and perceive it thus: all things by the hand of Russ will be as if by natural law, accessible to woman, accessible to man, through use of his mind.
Create thee beauty, Clare, that the world might be a better place.
15 comments:
I'll tell ya that I chuckle every single time I watch the second video. It's brilliant!
Divine protection is spiritual protection. God promises to cause all things to work together for good for those that love Him. To live is Christ to die is gain.
Well, the links have disappeared when I view the post. But I'll leave a comment anyway, because I've been thinking about this, caused by the report of a church coming back from Mexico which was involved in an accident, resulting in the death of several of the youth group members.
More times than I can count, as an evangelical I used to pray for "God's traveling mercies" before setting out on a long car drive with others.
I realize now, of course, that such praying had zero impact on the odds of getting into a fatal accident. But what was my response when people said "why didn't God hear the prayer of the kids in that church van"? God's ways are above our ways, he had a purpose that we couldn't know."
Well, if that's the case, then why pray? If God's mind is made up, or fate is pre-destined, prayer has no use. Then of course, comes all the defenses of Calvinism.
Ray's response is a load of BS too. All the hundreds of time we prayed "traveling mercies prayers", we weren't praying for "spiritual" protection (what kind of evil is going to overtake you in a car journey, anyway?), we were damn well praying not to get in a wreck! Be honest, Ray!
Wesley,
We are to be heavenly minded. God doesn't promise that there won't nightmares of this world. The promise is that He will work all things together for good for those that love Him. To live is Christ and to die is gain.
Ya exactly Ray, the prayers are in the realm of spirituality just where no one can confirm it or criticaly evaluate it.....lol....I always found this excuses rich!
I remeber some christian friends I had when I myself was a christian.
These two friends of mine went to a coffee shop one night. Some drunkin guy started picking a fight with them. One of my friends ran inside the coffee shop for protection and the drunk guy chased him inside. The drunk guy threw him to the ground and began to pound his face in. Although this friend of mine was calling out- "my God will protect me" the drunk just continued to beat him till the cops showed up.
I remember when I heard about it, I was really confused why this actually happened to him. Of course all the excuses came out-"God was using this for His purposes" and "God was with him the whole time".
I just look back at it now and I actually laugh every time I picture him getting punched and saying God will protect him...lol...
Ray what exactly is spiritual protection? Protection from what?
@Lee:
Ha! I was going to ask the same question last night and then decided not to. Then came back to do it this morning... and it's already done!
Twice Ray has quoted "all things work together for the good of those that love him". I quoted that hundreds of times myself over the course of several decades.
All that is Ray, is a "get out of jail free" card for God. Use it if someone dies that we were praying for. Use it when our prayers seem to go unanswered. Use it to avoid facing the fact that prayer consists of talking to thin air and making yourself feel good that you've done something, when in actual fact nothing has changed.
Ray said,
Divine protection is spiritual protection.
I agree, but only if you're telling us that divine protection is just one more of those unobservable things you like to wish for. Since you don't expect spiritual things to be observable, then anything at all can provide "spiritual protection." Specifically, I myself can promise and deliver just as much spiritual protection as any god, including the gods of the Christianities. Since spiritual protection doesn't do anything, it can be done by a random stone, an arbitrary table leg, or a plain ol' run-of-the-mill chihuahua.
Not doing anything is easy, so most religions use it a lot. In the theistic Christianities, their gods are made of not doing anything. All the Christianities which use a god, liberally apply apologetics to explain why their god doesn't do anything, thereby also explaining why they can't and don't expect their god to do anything. Every single day, those Christianities which use gods, write more words explaining their god's inaction than there are words in their Bible's. Since believer's gods aren't expected to deliver, believers can and do imagine their gods promising the moon. If I was allowed the same apologetics, Ray, I would promise you the moon and much much more.
You said,
God promises to cause all things to work together for good for those that love Him.
I can do that, too, if you 1) permit me the apologetics you grant your god; 2) go along with me working in the same mysterious ways as your god; and, 3) surrender to my inscrutable plans or will. These are all variations on one overarching theme: you do not expect your god(or me) to do anything. Believe me, I can do just as much nothing as your god.
Ray,
Let me be your god, Ray. I promise to do everything you say your current god does subject to the same rules according to which your current god operates. You can say I am Russ, The One God, World Without End, The Be All and End All, the Alpha and the Omega, blah, blah, blah. You can make that shit as flowery and poetic and mysterious and nonsensical as you like. Whatever you want. As long as I'm only as obligated as your current god, you can say anything you like about me. Just remember, though, if you piss me off, all hell will break loose. Earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, tsunamis, and other natural disasters will be all over the place, enough to make it seem like I'm not even there. Consider yourself warned.
So, I promise you eternal life subject to certain exemptions, caveats and exceptions.
I promise to protect you under particular circumstances which could pass for completely natural occurrences.
I promise that medical science will continue to make errors in diagnosis which you can attribute to me as miracles, unless it makes me look bad, of course. When the doc errors in saying someone's dying in a week, but they live for a month, you must say that you know it was me who did that. Just forget the efforts by all the medical professionals. Focus on me. It's all about me, your eternal Russ(ooh, eternal, Your Lord Russ, likes that). But, if the physician gives 'em a year and they're inconsiderate enough to bite it in a week, don't you blame that shit on me. Finger anyone you like, or go back to the rules we agreed to for your Holy of Holies, Russ Almighty: apologetics, mystery, and my divine plan.
Remember: you can imagine all the goodies I'm gonna give ya, or all the disaster relief I'm supposed to pull out of my ass, anything you want, but I get to do things by the same rules the Christianities use for their gods, meaning I don't have to do anything at all, and if I want you to imagine I did something, I get to disguise it to look like it happened naturally or to have it appear that some goody two shoes intentionally did it themselves. Them's the rules.
In a nutshell, good things count in my favor and are to be hailed as proof of the Infinite Goodness of Russ, while the not-so-good never ever counts against me and always gets explained away using one or more of the many time-honored excuses. Got it, buddy?
You want 72 virgins in heaven? Only a cheapskate would make such a promise. Hell, I promise the same 72 upfront with a new one thrown in every few millennia. Sing my praises as Russ, the Infinitely Generous. Heck, Ray, if you like, I'll make sure that after you're dead, you never have to see your mother in law ever again. How's that for Russ the All-Knowing, knowing what you really want?
Follow me as your new god, making all the allowances you make for me that you make for your current god, Ray, and I will guarantee you will never notice the difference, except for the heavenly vision of not being stuck forever with the same 72 non-virgins from day 73 on.
Sounds great Russ! You can be God any time you like, as long as you don't make me go to church or pay you any money.
Clare,
Go yea therefore into the world and perceive it thus: all things by the hand of Russ will be as if by natural law, accessible to woman, accessible to man, through use of his mind.
Create thee beauty, Clare, that the world might be a better place.
I wonder what causes unsuspecting boobs like Ray to wander in here and spout a load of stupid?
Doesn't he KNOW?
LOL
Post a Comment