Catholics AND Bob Jones University: We Both Have Our Pedophiles!
A man who was a staff graduate assistant at Bob Jones University is accused of sex crimes against a child. LinkWhat is it with these idiot pedophiles? If there is no difference between the behavior of the general population and Christians then I see no reason to believe. It's especially bad when it seems sex crimes are more prevalent in the church. Christian, do you understand this?
Hat Tip: Harry McCall, an alumnus of BJU.
16 comments:
They have a get-out-of-jail-free card so they can do whatever they want. They don't join churches to become better people, they join because God lurves them and they have been given the gift of god's sacrifice of himself to spare them from punishments god would have had to do. ... or something
John,
First pedophiles are not idiots they are sick. Did you know that most pedophiles were once victims of sexual abuse. Don’t be so narrow minded. There are many reasons why people do terrible things. You need to be more understanding about people motives and stop calling every thing you don’t like or don’t’ understand stupid.
Secondly, the church is like a hospital. One should not be surprised to find sick people there. The church is made for sinners like pedophiles. Additionally you should not be surprised that pedophiles show up in churches. Where there are children there are pedophiles.
Lastly, I disagree with you about the effect Christianity has on people. My faith in Christ makes me a better person. Additionally, the society that I live in is better because it has Christian values. For example our belief in human rights is just watered down Christianity. Of course every one is entitled to an opinion and I disagree with yours, do you understand this.
-Harold
Ladyathiest,
Your ignorance is showing; and atheists wonder why Christians don’t listen to them. If you want people to listen to you, you must represent them correctly.
-Harold
It's a stretch to compare the pedophilia in the catholic church who's (unbiblical) mandate of celibacy and long trusted access to children created an environment that would appeal to pedophiles for the opportunity (or as a place to heal... which is really a poor idea when they also set these men up to be leaders when their own spirituality is so lacking) to Bob Jones where only one guy is convicted. That's hardly a statistically meaningful comparison.
And pedophiles can be found anywhere.
What about them being found in the church. Should we be surprised when our own scriptures tell of members of the people of God, even amongst the clergy and flock rebell in both testaments.
So we don't lose our free will. So we don't see an end to many challenges in personal growth, even in the darkest areas. So some amongst us where never authentic to begin with. That this is the nature of this group, (and only a small part of it) proves nothing.
As for why sex crimes might be more prevelent in the church, if it is so, I suppose it makes sense to me for the following reasons, that when something has more value, as sexuality does Christianity, ironically, the potential for abuse of it becomes greater. The more sacred it is, the more it can be profaned, the more it can be warped. And of course, this has to do with a guarded compulsion. A compulsion that is controlled may be stronger to resist.
But I highly doubt that if the church with its sexual mores went away that we'd be more sexually moral and the worst perversities would disappear. pederasts were common in the Greek and roman world long before Christianity. And in some primitive areas of the world, children might be introduced to sexuality by their own parents.
Course for a more contemporary example (but not about pedophilia... not that the question about sex crimes was limited to that either) I found a poll on the internet aimed at atheists as to whether they thought incest should be legal. I really huge portion (though a minority) thought that it should.
LadyAtheist said, "They have a get-out-of-jail-free card so they can do whatever they want"
What you described is abuse of grace and does not qualify as faith. Faith is expressed in acts of love.
Pedophiles need the grace of God as much as any other person so they can be enlightened as to what faithful love is.
3M, aka Beautiful Feet
I know from the apologetic side we should shuffle the excuses, but abuse hurts, having seen the effect, it hurts deeply. It has caused so much pain to so many. As I understand it Atheists do not claim infallibility, they just claim evidence, which our side offers, well none what so ever. We have are apologetic, our rhetoric, and our appeal to authority, but as actually offering any evidence what so ever. Nada.
Come on admit it, you struggle with a literal creation myth, a literal Adam and eve, with a literal flood, tower of Babble. Do you actually think, God the creator of the entire wonderful universe drown the entire world because they did not totally understand Him?
Think on that, God, the creator of all, creating a group of souls to be sent to hell, Romans 9. I mean does that not make you ponder at all? Why create souls that will go to hell, does that make any sense what so ever? All of modern science repudiates a literal creation, flood etc. We offer no response to it, just rhetoric. Do we want to go back to the old days where we blame demons for sickness like Small pox etc? I mean so many are saved by science. Not so many my other means.
So we want to go back to the dark ages. Look I understand, I dont want to let go of our beliefs, it is painful, it makes us angry, but we have to admit, science as offered us many solutions that "theology" does not offer. I do not want to give up my faith, but I want my faith to drive me to help the human condition to achieve better for all of us. Basically I want to make a dent and help others.
sorry for the errors I wright with a test to speech visual software I apologize for the mistakes in spelling and intent, basically I see Atheists as well people, like me, struggling to find answers. I do not agree with their final answers but respect their process. Personally I understand my religious faith as mostly emotional, I hope there is some recompense for those I have worked with. I E maybe the pain they suffered would have some explanation even restoration. Does that make sense, some of you were believers at one time, do you see my point, granted it is emotional, but it is so dramatic in my life. I wish you all the best. I think believers and non believers are closer then they think, they want health for those the love and to provide for their children.
it seems a little unfair to quote a single case of an evangelical pedophile, where there are so many cases of Catholic priests guilty.
One difference here is that Bob Jones notified the police as soon as they heard about it. No attempt at a cover-up as is typical with the RCC. That is not to say that evangelicals don't cover-up these things. Often they do. For example, see here. Jeri Massi and Christa Browndo an excellent job of documenting these cases among Baptists.
Harold said,
"...Secondly, the church is like a hospital. One should not be surprised to find sick people there. The church is made for sinners like pedophiles."
Right, BUT...
The church ought not to be LED by pedophiles. Whomever is in charge of placing people in positions of authority in these institutions needs to do a better job of vetting candidates for office.
I have thought for a long time now that certain aspects of religious life actually ATTRACT these sickos; and conversely, that people who are already well-adjusted are less often being drawn to a religious life. The churches therefore have to accept what they can get, and let ALL candidates that pass the academics through, because if they didn't, there would be a worse shortage of clergy than there already is.
icouldbe,
As a Christian I have jettisoned some bad theology, much of which you have mentioned, but I think everyone needs to understand that this is rhetoric on Loftus' part as well. There is no comparison to the general public, and it smacks of an emotional appeal. I won't defend the person who did this, but this is less of an argument than a scare tactic.
Icouldbe said..."I wish you all the best. I think believers and non believers are closer then they think, they want health for those the love and to provide for their children."
Hey friend, i wish you all the best! too.At least you seem honest.I have lots of time for people who try their best to be honest, and dont beat around the bush too much, making excuses upon excuses.Tactical talkers.
You said.."sorry for the errors I wright with a test to speech visual software I apologize for the mistakes in spelling and intent"
Hey its no real biggy.Relax a little !.Not all atheists are the mean and nasty type,its just old propaganda.Actually many atheists are quite kind folk.Besides i dont side with atheists simply because they are atheists.And i wont let anyone bully you.Its not a den of demons here.
Most faithful folks that end up getting a bit of a hard time here, are the ones that use word games, and bull, to try and make life difficult as possible, when we discuss matters with them.
And many dont seem to care less about all damage that been caused by the faith guess work.They simply write it off like it simply dont matter, like its some sort of collateral damage, thats somehow totally aceptable.
They excuse their idea of God providing poor evidence and guidence,by trying to suggest omnipotent God with a conscience, who is supposedly also the heavenly father wanting his children to know him. Is somehow just the same as humans learning about how earthquakes or tsunami etc work.
It like suggesting if earthquakes and tsunami have no! concious way to be letting humans know how they might work.Then we shouldnt expect any different of the omnipotent concious Godly beings either.
This is sometime a little tough going to accept, for some of those of us whos whole families have suffered our whole life times, because of the problem of this type of faith guess work.Had family members sexually abused, or even commiting suicide and stuff.
Anyway, wish you all the best too Icouldbe
Nonchai, it was an example sent to me by Harry, but if you need other examples then see here and check back almost daily, okay?
I have witnessed the inside of the inside of a Christian Counselors ministry. If you knew how many molest there own sisters and daughters you would be shocked. And this is just one small ministry that I know of. Imagine the real number.
1.
Brad Haggard said...
icouldbe,
As a Christian I have jettisoned some bad theology, much of which you have mentioned, but I think everyone needs to understand that this is rhetoric on Loftus' part as well. There is no comparison to the general public, and it smacks of an emotional appeal. I won't defend the person who did this, but this is less of an argument than a scare tactic."
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Hi Brad thats really very nice that you have "jettisoned some bad theology".But unfortunately its not going to change and stop all the abuse still happening under the diguise of faith all over this world,just because Brad Haggard jettisoned some bad theology.
So what if there is emotional appeal? ,Crikey! ..are human not allowed emotion ?.
Maybe your personal dislike of use of emotion is not so very surprising ,when we considder the great lack! of it in areas where its actually been needed!, like surrounding matters of many faith circles .
Such as emotion needed that might have helped bring forward the ability for humans to do something involving some more real honest action to help stop faith abuse.
Because words of sorry and condolences ,actually acheives very little ,other than helping make the faith person speaking the "words" feel so wonderfully wonderful about themselves.
But there has always been people of faith like yourself who seem to think emotional appeal must always be thought of as such a bad thing unless its manipulated and controlled .They stamped it out, far prefering to breed faith clones, with brains half closed down by all the "charisma" and "devotion".
It how folks of faith turn a blind eye to sexual abuse of children.Turn a blind eye to the many families still torn apart in many abusive faiths and cults to this very day, which is now the year 2010!, and yet still many faithful people like yourself warm pews,yet do little else to bother helping try stopping it happen.
Its thought as just a dirty disgusting nasty worthless "emotion appeal" non argument , should anyone dare try and bring these " danger of faith" emotional matters up.
And sadly our world is still ruled by a majority of faithful,many who like you have grown "hardened hearts" about certian matters that dont bring your group more praise fame and fortune.
You are quite happy for arguments that use "emotional appeal" when change and more help and funds is needed with regards to earthquake appeals or homeing the homeless or feeding the hungry.Because this is areas where faithful folks like you can make yourself look all sweet rosy and wonderful.And famous.
But when emotional appeal is with regards to the nasty matters involved with faith circles...You quickly poo poo it ...And call it a non argument ...simply because it suits your faith agenda.
And you would far prefer that most of the faith brains in general, all stay half closed down by consentrating on only all the "charisma" and "devotion" .
Because you see use of "emotional appeal" as a grave danger!, to mind manipulative control of human brains in faiths and churches.
2,
Brad.
Its not good for too many folks of faith to use arguments of "emotional appeal" in certain areas with regards to faith is it .Too many folks brains might suddenly wake up! and become fully alert! , and start re-considdering many more matters surrounding their faith .Such as the abuse of Gay folk who happen to also be human .Or abuse of some of their own family and flesh and blood , many whom still remain shunned and seperated and excommunicated and disowned in some faith circles.Argument from "uncontrolled" emotional appeal , might even see far too many Muslim folk disliking stoning people in Muslim countries ,they might even start to rise up! against wrongful enforcement of womens need of wearing the burka in the hot sun. Rise up against wrongful faith domination of women in general.
Yes its easy to see why many folks of faith really dislike uncontrolled argument from emotional appeal .Faith needs control of matters.To much freedom of thought is such a great sin.
As long as you are "not" STILL far to "devoted" to all the "charisma" of faith, it is very easy! to see just why many faithful folks still like to try and manipulate argument and thoughts and emotions.
When devoted to charisma, the half shut down human brain, often can only see what it really wants to believe in . http://www.newscientist.com/article/
mg20627574.200-brain-shuts-off-in-response-to-healers-prayer.html
And Brad Haggard dont like to even dare! considder just maybe this might actually be a good argument ! , and not just "only" be about emotion.
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