Getting Your Vaccine is a Matter of Trust. Trust the Science!

Here is a text discussion I had with two family members, JA and TO on trusting the science behind Vaccines. I didn't know their views initially. I think I did good job even though I could've written so much more. They are 64 and 68 years old near my age. It started when I heard the Pfizer Vaccine was about to be approved: 

JO: YAY! Looks like the FDA is going to approve the Pfizer Vaccine! The UK already did. Get one of the vaccines ASAP!

JA: I don't know, scared of it.

JO: That's too bad. Everyone has some irrational fears. Don't give in to them.

TO: I have not decided yet, I take pause because the technique used is new and unproven...No one knows the long term effects of this new technique and we won't know for sure for years.

JA: Waiting 4 results 1 to 2 months.

JO: The results are already  in! Otherwise it wouldn't be approved by the FDA, nor would medical personnel be so excited to get it! If you are capable of authoritative oversight over the FDA then you should be on that board! Oh well. Do as thou wilt. You won't be able to get it immediately anyway.

JA: I will be one of the last in line. They pushed it through.  why no cure for AIDS or CANCER? YET IN 6 MONTHS THIS! HUMMMM

JO: I don't think either of you understand the technique used, why it is a scientific break-through and the rigorous testing it has already gone through including thousands of volunteers. But I intend to stay alive and get back to a normal life ASAP. I wish you both well.

JA: No.  Long term effects unknown..  so...I don't know.

JO: What if there won't be any long term effects for you if you get the virus and die?

JA: I defied death at least 7xs in my life. #truth. So I'm living on borrowed time anyway. lol

JO: ...said a man whose luck might just end.

JA: Never was it luck, John.

JA: Someone is looking out for me!

JO: ...said several dozens of pastors before they got the virus and died.

JA: Focus John.  15 million cases in the US.  284 k. deaths.  .01893 % die.  It's just a big ass flu bug.

JO: It won't feel like that for you, ya old codger! ;-)

JA: Younger codger, ok.

JA: His number was called.

JO: Yep, it's the luck of the draw. Don't be that guy!

JA: I won't.

JO: That Pastor died just a few weeks before having the chance at a vaccine.

JA: I don't care. lol

JO: Shall we use those words as your epitaph if you die of Covid-19? Don't be THAT guy! 

JA: I will defeat the virus if I even catch it. ttyl

JO: A second line to add to your Epitaph?

TO: Sorry for the late response, taking continuing Ed classes today.

So many times our thoughts as well as scientific research is biased and decisions are made based on something being the better of two evils.

It should be easier for me to make the decision to take it than someone younger like my kids or grandkids but I need to process, is the risk worse to take the vaccine or get the virus...

This photo best shows some of why I am concerned.

JA: Exactly

JO: Your comparison is bullshit! The reason why we reject the products in that pic is because science has advanced. Nothing but science corrected those mistakes. You could add to it lead based paint (and pipes), as well as blood-letting. What you're comparing is the science of yesterday to the science of today. You can't do that. Science keeps getting better and better at figuring things out, especially after sequencing the human gene code. You guys are talking as if that never happened!


TO: There are so many statistics either one of us could use, more deaths per day from heart related issues than COVID -19...

Bottom line for me is since the vaccine delivery mechanism is able to penetrate into the cell might it eventually be able to penetrate and alter the DNA, I don't feel anyone really knows for sure.

I'm not saying I won't get it but I'm saying I still need to process the perceived benefits versus the known risks  of being able to survive the virus. See the number of Heart deaths.

JA: Exactly.  I will wait and see.

JO: Looks like Covid-19 has as many deaths as Cardio-Vascular Disease according to that link then. Okay. Why isn't it on that meme? It's because of how we die and how easily we could avoid dying. Covid's rise and fall depends things we can control easily with masks, social distancing and vaccines. Besides, it's using the Covid death rate for comparison purposes. 

JO: Would you get a blood transfusion, take an antibiotic, use an antiseptic, or get an organ transplant? Would you have gotten a polio vaccine or smallpox vaccine if you had a choice when you were young? Stop living as if science doesn't work! Wait if you wish. It won't bother me either way. You are right though. The odds are in your favor that you won't get it, or die from it. Good luck. But after I get the vaccine I'll know I won't die and can live my life normally again. I cannot wait, and that's the difference that makes the difference for me.

For the record I would have volunteered for the testing phase of any vaccine because they already had a really good idea it would work.


TO: I respect your decision John and ask you to respect whatever mine ends up being. You might find this article interesting, it shows the testing parameters for the Vaccine trials.

JO: While I don't regard you as a science denier, you are a science nitpicker. The vaccine is being approved by infectious disease experts under an emergency usage clause. It will be studied and fixed in the coming months as needed. Take it for what it is, or not. You've always been a  cautious one. That's in your nature. Good luck.

I think you're focusing on three things I highlighted in this link [1, 3, 4]: Don't be close-minded to science.

Respect your decision? No. Don't let that bother you though, as it's your life, your decision. Just hope you don't get it while shopping or churching.

TO: I'm defiantly cautious but not nit picky, and certainly not based on 1, 3 or 4 - just doing my due diligence. One thing I've learned in my life is not to live in an absolute black and white world but to enjoy all of the gray and color palette.

The article I cited was from British Medical Journal, a highly regarded British Science based website.

JO: I don't know when that article was published. It looks like it was published in September when scientists were skeptical because Trump said he was rushing a vaccine through. I'd say they endorse the vaccine that's now being given in the UK. The first person was a 90 year old woman. That's the level of confidence they have in it. 

TO: The date as noted at the top of the article is October 21, 2020 and I found your comment interesting that the vaccine will be studied and fixed as needed, that didn't portray much confidence...

JA: No confidence at all.  lol 

JO: 2 to 1. I guess that settles it. You two win!! Congrats!

Nevermind the infectious disease experts who have looked at and approved this vaccine. Focus on the fact there will be some complications. Forget that every medicine and every vaccine has complications. Focus on what a few scientists said who have not looked at the final data. Forget also our dire circumstances. What's the worst complication known so far? Fever. Your fears are irrational.

But again. It's your life, your decision. I'm glad I'm not fearful of science. I will get back my life earlier as a result. You however, might suffer on a ventilator for a month or worse.

JO: Yay!! Report: “Canadians can have confidence in our rigorous review process, and that the vaccine was only authorized only after a thorough assessment of the evidence demonstrated that it met Canada’s strict standards for safety, efficacy and quality."

JA: Stop John. When I see results. I will say yes or no.

JO: You can know more than they do? Of course you do!!!

JA: #kindado

JO: You "kind of do"? Now no offense JA, really. But you don't, neither do I. It's about trust. I trust proven experts in their specializations, the ones who have actually seen the results of these vaccine trials. You don't trust them. That's clear. I've only seen you make that assertion. Nothing more. Here's the punch line. Read it thoughtfully: The Dunning-Kruger Effect, Or Why the Ignorant Think They are Experts.

JA: In my field of vision.  kinda do....

JO: Quotes from the link:

"If you’re incompetent, you can’t know you’re incompetent."

“The skills you need to produce a right answer are exactly the skills you need to recognize what a right answer is."

JA: Later