If you have my book and want to comment on it as you read it, you may want to do so here. Your comments can be good, bad or indifferent. Any honest feedback at all is appreciated.
John,thanks for your courage I'm on chapter 3 and loving all of it.Who was it who said "see how these Christians love one another"----have they ever? Thanks again for all you do.
Thanks Kathleen, you are approaching some pretty densely packed philosophical arguments in that chapter, and more of them in chapter 5 on "Does God Exist." I think parts of those two chapters should've been made more readable than they are. But as I said readers can probably skip over the parts that are difficult without too much of a loss, if they seem difficult. Everyone, just keep reading.
It was probably delivered to my PO Box earlier today, but I won't be able to retrieve it until about two weeks from now.
I have about 10 books in my reading queue, but this will go to the front of the list as soon as I get it.
John, I have a few old Christian friends who ask questions of why I dropped the faith. I gave them my reasons, but then for further reading, I loaned them your previous book. They express interest, but alas the book ultimately just collects dust on their bookshelf.
These kinds of books are great, but I fear they end up preaching to the chior. How do you propose you should (and we should) spread the Good Word??
I haven't had a chance to start reading it yet but I did notice that the print is very light almost like the printer was out of toner. Some places are worse than others. Anyone else seen notice this or did I get a bum copy?
John, you seem to be no different than a fundementalist Christian except you are an atheist. Your atheism is your religion and you will go to all extremes to defend it. Why do you strive so hard to defend atheism? Is it just an "us vs them" mentality or are you really trying to prove to yourself that athesim is the correct position? Any way, I don't see why you, as an atheist, is so causght up in trying to disprove evangelical Christianity.
John, What do you think about publicizing your book by going on a show like the "Colbert Report" on Comedy Central? Bart Ehrman and Richard Dawkins have both done the show and they provided great "foils" for the conservative,evangelical "character" that Stephen Colbert portrays on the show. Just a thought.
Richard, why should what I'm doing be seen differently than anyone else who argues that he's right about something? Isn't the goal of doing away with ignorance a good enough motivation for anyone who argues his case?
ismellarat, the title is similar: Why I Became an Atheist: Personal Reflections and Additional Arguments, due out in a couple weeks or so. More on that later.
HeIsSailing, I'm learning as I go. "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it." They have to want to listen. Even if a book collects dust with some of the people you lend it to, others will read it, so we must lend away...in hopes.
Is there a better reason to challenge christianity?
If that's not enought how about civil rights, medical research, origins of life, origins of the universe, the hate speak in your relgion, or maybe just to pursue the truth without the last cetunries lies. Take you pic, chrisitans treat all like they someone hurt chrisitianiy.
I'm in the midst of house hunting and have only scratched the surface of the book, but so far it's great! In chapter one in the part commenting on beginning to study the Bible as a young Christian you said: "I thought these were God's words and that he was speaking directly to me every time I read them. It all just seemed so real."
That really struck home with me. I felt exactly the same way!
I received my copy on Friday and I must say it's a large book. In many ways it's a reference work for the various topics surrounding Christian theism. People may not read it through from beginning to end. But in order to debunk Christianity we need one book, a large book, that covers all of these major topics in sufficient depth. I hope I've accomplished that. I'm just one person, ya know. And no one person can master all of these topics.
The first part - your deconversion story - was boring and badly needs an editor.
The rest of the book is a readable reference for all major arguments of the debate. It's less complete than, say, Oppy's "Arguing About Gods" or the collected works of Michael Martin. But it's much more accessible. You condense the most relevant arguments, quote the main philosophical players, and cite your sources so that people who are interested can learn more. The footnotes are the most valuable part of the book.
Great job. This is much better than the New Atheist books (though, Hitchens' book wasn't bad.)
I just finished chapter 7.
I look forward to the chapters on the Problem of Evil. I wonder if you've dealt with atheist Graham Oppy's arguments that the Problem of Evil fails.
I'm on about page 150 in your book -very good. I like the biblical superstition chapter better than I liked the philosophy. That's too much mental gymnastics, although I have done it. I read and reviewed (on Amazon) the Craig/Sinot-Armstrong (sp) debate a few years ago.
My copy arrived yesterday. I'll start it immediately after I finish Dr. Avalos' "The End of Biblical Studies". My cursory impression was very favorable. I like David Mills. His comment on the rear jacket is a right nice endorsement.
Wonderful book. Flows better than your first although I own and enjoy that one as well. I have used it several times in my debates with fundies at work. My back story is similar to yours except on a much less grand scale. I was actually a seminary student for some time before I could not stomach it any more. Your blog is bookmarked on my favorites and I check it most every day. Thank you for the inspiration and information you provide for those battling the virus that is religion.
John, you say "Even if a book collects dust with some of the people you lend it to, others will read it, so we must lend away...in hopes."
What are these hopes? What do you hope in spreading other then trying to prove everyone wrong? I am not trying to be mean, i just dont know the point of such a book...
Will it be self-published, since I don't see it at Amazon?
I'm guessing you want to see some reviews of the other one first, so you can respond in the next one.
Maybe you should dedicate it to the nice people at TheologyWeb, who've surely been of great inspiration to you.
I remember going back and reading your first posts there, in which you seemed to not want to get into any tiring discussions of these subjects. It seems like they changed your mind. :)
Will it be self-published, since I don't see it at Amazon?
Yes.
I'm guessing you want to see some reviews of the other one first, so you can respond in the next one.
That's for another potential book or more than likely several Blog posts or an article in a magazine or journal.
Maybe you should dedicate it to the nice people at TheologyWeb, who've surely been of great inspiration to you.
I did. I thanked them, not by name, for inspiring me to go for the jugular of the faith that justifies their obnoxious demeaning behavior toward people like me.
I remember going back and reading your first posts there, in which you seemed to not want to get into any tiring discussions of these subjects. It seems like they changed your mind. :)
Yes, probably the best way to motivate me is to ridicule and berate me. I fire back with better, more informed arguments.
1. how heavy the book is in philosophy of religion argumentations and how well it summarizes, outlines, and documents the thoughts of the various philosophers (from both sides). 2. In biblical textual criticism I have seen various aspects stressed with different authors: that the Bible is based on myth, that it is based on midrash, that it is based on theological issues, that verses can't be reconciled, that the document looks exactly like what you would expect from had no God been present, etc. I have never seen one before that based an argument on the overwhelmingly superstitious nature of the people of the day. Very convincing.
3. Take home point: That a person's worldview, based on his cultural and individual milieu, is definitive in the way the debate unfolds. What she takes to the debate in the way of baggage is way more important than the rationale of the arguments.
John I'm going to buy your book, despite your friendly Christian review here where they accuse you of being a child molester and more. atheismisdead slander
Scary, see how they hate me? They make me so embarrassed I ever believed what they do. Although, I would never have said the slanderous false lies they do to defend their faith. Shouldn't they at least think about what it says of their faith to have to slander me in order to defend what they believe? Wow. Unbelievable!
I would think that the book to read in their list is the one they feel they must slander the author the most.
Well I think daddy cool, or most likely "Frank Walton"'s post is no surprise. What is a surprise is that moderators POSTED IT! And left it up for 4 days even after one of there own group (Josh) protested it. If some kook posted that William Lane Craig was an accused child molester do you think that would have been approved? And they have the balls to lecture us about MORALIY? jeez. I really don't know why I even visit the site, well guess I do, it's for the train wreck value.
Scary, what I found very interesting is that Andrew asked them to take a look at my book. He said that "a first rate analysis is in order." Andrew is my stalker and he goes by several different names. He is banned from DC because of his abusive obnoxiousness. I wonder if the arguments in my book are making him question his faith? He wants someone to help him think through the issues in my book. That, I find interesting!
I try to remeber what it was like when I was "sold out" for Jesus, and I can rermeber the cracks developing. A book like yours is a real challenge to faith, it would have been for mine. That's probably why you'll find why many Christians who are fighting to preserve their faith avoiding books like yours (spiritual porn). Henry Kriete's open letter, Honest to God" was what finally helped made me leave the ministry ICOC and become an atheist. But I was well on my way out years before. A "famous" evangelist in our movement challenged us from the pulpit to find one inconsistency in the Bible. I was just enough of a dick (as you've seen me be on your site, sorry) to take him up on it. I was called devisive. Oh well.
"Andrew is my stalker and he goes by several different names."
If this is the same Andrew who also goes by the names of Bertram and Stauffenberg, and also trolls Ex-Christian.net, I may know who he is. He is part of a troll-group in the Kansas City area. I have confronted him in person. If you would like more information, let me know.
Just have to chime in. I know this Andrew kid, if he is the same guy. There is a group of four of them who pose as "The Real Four Horsemen." Little high school punk who thinks he is a genius. Even has cards printed up.
Anyhoo, I would like to get the book but I won't order it from Amazon, for various reasons, and, frankly I am ashamed to admit that I can't have it come by the house. (I hope you will understand.) Is it going to be in mainstream bookstores anytime soon?
John, you have accused me of being a stalker, thus accusing me of a crime.
According to the law student upstairs, this is LIBEL PER SE, a tort. Further, you are apparently conspiring with another poster to obtain personal information about me, which he believes is a violation of the civil rights act and an invasion of privacy. He will do some more research on that.
Further, you have spread vicious lies about me posting on Craig's list, and I am certain you know that is not true.
Of course, I am not suprised that you are willing to lie. You admitted in your own book that you are a liar and the Holding escapade is well known, meaning that your credibility is zip.
These remarks are for informational purposes only.
Finished your fine book and my review is up. About the time I finished, it occurred to me there may have been three themes rather than two. I included the themes that run throughout stressing superstition of the people and inmportance of worldview, but I forgot about the difficulty discerning an accurate history after the fact. Oh well, the review was getting too long and I didn't want to change it.
Spinozanator, thanks so much! Remember, I had devout Christians in mind when I wrote it. That means some skeptics might not like it as much as other works, and I said that. I see you highly recommended it despite the fact you're a skeptic who might've liked a difference emphasis at times. Thanks. It's a reference work, a large work, one that people can refer to on both sides of the debate.
I think that by telling people, Christians or skeptics, what Christian defenders must believe in order to defend their faith, that it will open their eyes to the gerrymandering required to believe. I also think the Bible debunks itself, so all I have to do is to tell them what the Bible says about these issues.
You have my deepest sympathy at having to put up with the nonsense of people spreading horrible lies about you. I don't know how I would respond to it, but I don't think I'd be very gracious. I just want you to know that your site has made a wonderful difference in my life.
I am about halfway through your book, and the only criticism I have is your personal testimony. One poster said it was boring, but it was certainly not that. Rather, I am disappointed at knowing how you will be abused by your opposition because of your openness.
Over at Atheim is Dead I posted this comment (which hasn't been approved yet):
The only thing I ever did wrong in my debates on the net is to try to discuss the issues that divide us reasonably. I shouldn't have tried. I shouldn't have expected the people I attempted this with to do likewise. I was maligned at every opportunity and so I fired back. I shouldn't have done that. I've learned from this experience and won't sink to that level ever again.
As far as Daddy Cool's slanderous accusations, I deny them all. This is an example of what I mean. How many of you posting here could take such false things said about you over and over without getting upset? I now expect it. It's par for the course coming from people like him.
As far as my arguments go, you can say I don't understand theology all you want to, but Christian apologists and philosophers like Drs. Norm Geisler, James F. Sennett and Mark Linville disagree.
The books listed in this blog post all sound interesting to me, but wouldn't you think that the one book that has gotten the most attention here should be the one you should engage the most? I mean, after all, if Christians seem to rail against me and my book the most, wouldn't you want to know why they do? May I suggest that it is everything that Geisler, Linville, Sennett and others say it is?
I truly believe this book of mine will cause somewhat of an upheaval, especially when book review editors for newspapers like Chicago Tribune and LA Times receive their copies and a few of them write about it who are not friends of Christian theism. Then if all you can say is that I'm a liar or that I'm stupid your responses will simply not cut it anymore. Good luck with that.
I very much appreciate how open you are and how willing you are to wear your heart and emotions on your sleeve, and are so quick to admit to shortcomings and mistakes. Trust me among the vast majority of fair minded people you have earned a great deal of respect, mine included.
As far as the Atheismisdead crew the only thing you could do to make them happy would be to convert back to Christianity. I can see the blog post if that happened:
"John Loftus one of todays leading and respected, well educated, articulate, intelligent, well-published, thoughtful atheists rejects atheism!"
Hey maybe it's just me but does that guy with the legal sounding bullcrap even deserve a response, andrew or something?
Andrew wants attention, good or bad. He loves it, checks this blog several times a day to see if someone has responded to his posts, goes to bed thinking what a clever thing he posted, it enters his dreams, he wakes up hoping that someone has responded to his posts. It really sucks when no one even notices.
That was a great response to Andrew! But that begs the question of how you came by such knowledge. Are you in league with Satan, er, I mean an attorney? ;)
There are no crimes being committed, you idiot! You haven't got a clue. You cannot libel an anonymous person like Andrew, who is in fact anonymous, since there can be no damages to said person.
John Loftus, I just retrieved your latest book from my PO Box yesterday afternoon. It looks great - much easier to read than your first book. I will write a review as soon as I am able to.
You said: .I truly believe this book of mine will cause somewhat of an upheaval, especially when book review editors for newspapers like Chicago Tribune and LA Times receive their copies and a few of them write about it who are not friends of Christian theism.
No kidding? Can we expect to see reviews in these major newspapers? Can we expect to see you soon on BookTV reading an excerpt for a small audience? Any other media exposure?
55 comments:
If there's an ebook version, I'll buy it and post a full review.
I got my book today!
All I could think was "awesome" and "it's about frikkin' time".
John,thanks for your courage I'm on chapter 3 and loving all of it.Who was it who said "see how these Christians love one another"----have they ever? Thanks again for all you do.
Thanks Kathleen, you are approaching some pretty densely packed philosophical arguments in that chapter, and more of them in chapter 5 on "Does God Exist." I think parts of those two chapters should've been made more readable than they are. But as I said readers can probably skip over the parts that are difficult without too much of a loss, if they seem difficult. Everyone, just keep reading.
kiwi, that's entirely up to Prometheus Books, as is the question of whether it'll be released as a Kindle book.
I'm already thinking about future books. Aren't you working on a follow-up? What's it about again, and when's it coming out?
It was probably delivered to my PO Box earlier today, but I won't be able to retrieve it until about two weeks from now.
I have about 10 books in my reading queue, but this will go to the front of the list as soon as I get it.
John, I have a few old Christian friends who ask questions of why I dropped the faith. I gave them my reasons, but then for further reading, I loaned them your previous book. They express interest, but alas the book ultimately just collects dust on their bookshelf.
These kinds of books are great, but I fear they end up preaching to the chior. How do you propose you should (and we should) spread the Good Word??
I haven't had a chance to start reading it yet but I did notice that the print is very light almost like the printer was out of toner. Some places are worse than others. Anyone else seen notice this or did I get a bum copy?
Jeff,
Mine is fine. No difference from my other books.
John, you seem to be no different than a fundementalist Christian except you are an atheist. Your atheism is your religion and you will go to all extremes to defend it. Why do you strive so hard to defend atheism? Is it just an "us vs them" mentality or are you really trying to prove to yourself that athesim is the correct position? Any way, I don't see why you, as an atheist, is so causght up in trying to disprove evangelical Christianity.
John,
What do you think about publicizing your book by going on a show like the "Colbert Report" on Comedy Central? Bart Ehrman and Richard Dawkins have both done the show and they provided great "foils" for the conservative,evangelical "character" that Stephen Colbert portrays on the show. Just a thought.
kilo, thanks. We'll see.
Richard, why should what I'm doing be seen differently than anyone else who argues that he's right about something? Isn't the goal of doing away with ignorance a good enough motivation for anyone who argues his case?
ismellarat, the title is similar: Why I Became an Atheist: Personal Reflections and Additional Arguments, due out in a couple weeks or so. More on that later.
HeIsSailing, I'm learning as I go. "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it." They have to want to listen. Even if a book collects dust with some of the people you lend it to, others will read it, so we must lend away...in hopes.
Richard:
"When good men do nothing evil flurishes"
Is there a better reason to challenge christianity?
If that's not enought how about civil rights, medical research, origins of life, origins of the universe, the hate speak in your relgion, or maybe just to pursue the truth without the last cetunries lies. Take you pic, chrisitans treat all like they someone hurt chrisitianiy.
I'm in the midst of house hunting and have only scratched the surface of the book, but so far it's great! In chapter one in the part commenting on beginning to study the Bible as a young Christian you said: "I thought these were God's words and that he was speaking directly to me every time I read them. It all just seemed so real."
That really struck home with me. I felt exactly the same way!
John, Okay, fair enough.
I received my copy on Friday and I must say it's a large book. In many ways it's a reference work for the various topics surrounding Christian theism. People may not read it through from beginning to end. But in order to debunk Christianity we need one book, a large book, that covers all of these major topics in sufficient depth. I hope I've accomplished that. I'm just one person, ya know. And no one person can master all of these topics.
John,
Your book is superb.
The first part - your deconversion story - was boring and badly needs an editor.
The rest of the book is a readable reference for all major arguments of the debate. It's less complete than, say, Oppy's "Arguing About Gods" or the collected works of Michael Martin. But it's much more accessible. You condense the most relevant arguments, quote the main philosophical players, and cite your sources so that people who are interested can learn more. The footnotes are the most valuable part of the book.
Great job. This is much better than the New Atheist books (though, Hitchens' book wasn't bad.)
I just finished chapter 7.
I look forward to the chapters on the Problem of Evil. I wonder if you've dealt with atheist Graham Oppy's arguments that the Problem of Evil fails.
Hi John,
I'm on about page 150 in your book -very good. I like the biblical superstition chapter better than I liked the philosophy. That's too much mental gymnastics, although I have done it. I read and reviewed (on Amazon) the Craig/Sinot-Armstrong (sp) debate a few years ago.
DB
My copy arrived yesterday. I'll start it immediately after I finish Dr. Avalos' "The End of Biblical Studies". My cursory impression was very favorable. I like David Mills. His comment on the rear jacket is a right nice endorsement.
Wonderful book. Flows better than your first although I own and enjoy that one as well. I have used it several times in my debates with fundies at work. My back story is similar to yours except on a much less grand scale. I was actually a seminary student for some time before I could not stomach it any more. Your blog is bookmarked on my favorites and I check it most every day. Thank you for the inspiration and information you provide for those battling the virus that is religion.
John, you say "Even if a book collects dust with some of the people you lend it to, others will read it, so we must lend away...in hopes."
What are these hopes? What do you hope in spreading other then trying to prove everyone wrong? I am not trying to be mean, i just dont know the point of such a book...
John,
Would you recommend that I read your first book before getting into this one?
Literally a couple of weeks?
Will it be self-published, since I don't see it at Amazon?
I'm guessing you want to see some reviews of the other one first, so you can respond in the next one.
Maybe you should dedicate it to the nice people at TheologyWeb, who've surely been of great inspiration to you.
I remember going back and reading your first posts there, in which you seemed to not want to get into any tiring discussions of these subjects. It seems like they changed your mind. :)
ismellarat
Literally a couple of weeks?
Yes.
Will it be self-published, since I don't see it at Amazon?
Yes.
I'm guessing you want to see some reviews of the other one first, so you can respond in the next one.
That's for another potential book or more than likely several Blog posts or an article in a magazine or journal.
Maybe you should dedicate it to the nice people at TheologyWeb, who've surely been of great inspiration to you.
I did. I thanked them, not by name, for inspiring me to go for the jugular of the faith that justifies their obnoxious demeaning behavior toward people like me.
I remember going back and reading your first posts there, in which you seemed to not want to get into any tiring discussions of these subjects. It seems like they changed your mind. :)
Yes, probably the best way to motivate me is to ridicule and berate me. I fire back with better, more informed arguments.
david, no, since this is an extensively revised edition of that book containing 230 additional pages.
Steve, check out my answer here.
Hi John,
So far I'm impressed with 3 things:
1. how heavy the book is in philosophy of religion argumentations and how well it summarizes, outlines, and documents the thoughts of the various philosophers (from both sides).
2. In biblical textual criticism I have seen various aspects stressed with different authors: that the Bible is based on myth, that it is based on midrash, that it is based on theological issues, that verses can't be reconciled, that the document looks exactly like what you would expect from had no God been present, etc. I have never seen one before that based an argument on the overwhelmingly superstitious nature of the people of the day. Very convincing.
3. Take home point: That a person's worldview, based on his cultural and individual milieu, is definitive in the way the debate unfolds. What she takes to the debate in the way of baggage is way more important than the rationale of the arguments.
Great book - I'm on page 200+.
DB
John I'm going to buy your book, despite your friendly Christian review here where they accuse you of being a child molester and more.
atheismisdead slander
Scary, see how they hate me? They make me so embarrassed I ever believed what they do. Although, I would never have said the slanderous false lies they do to defend their faith. Shouldn't they at least think about what it says of their faith to have to slander me in order to defend what they believe? Wow. Unbelievable!
I would think that the book to read in their list is the one they feel they must slander the author the most.
Thanks Spinozanator. I appreciate it and I agree. It's a unique argument is it not? The Bible tells us about those people. It debunks itself!
Well I think daddy cool, or most likely "Frank Walton"'s post is no surprise. What is a surprise is that moderators POSTED IT! And left it up for 4 days even after one of there own group (Josh) protested it. If some kook posted that William Lane Craig was an accused child molester do you think that would have been approved? And they have the balls to lecture us about MORALIY? jeez.
I really don't know why I even visit the site, well guess I do, it's for the train wreck value.
Scary, what I found very interesting is that Andrew asked them to take a look at my book. He said that "a first rate analysis is in order." Andrew is my stalker and he goes by several different names. He is banned from DC because of his abusive obnoxiousness. I wonder if the arguments in my book are making him question his faith? He wants someone to help him think through the issues in my book. That, I find interesting!
I try to remeber what it was like when I was "sold out" for Jesus, and I can rermeber the cracks developing. A book like yours is a real challenge to faith, it would have been for mine. That's probably why you'll find why many Christians who are fighting to preserve their faith avoiding books like yours (spiritual porn). Henry Kriete's open letter, Honest to God" was what finally helped made me leave the ministry ICOC and become an atheist.
But I was well on my way out years before. A "famous" evangelist in our movement challenged us from the pulpit to find one inconsistency in the Bible. I was just enough of a dick (as you've seen me be on your site, sorry) to take him up on it. I was called devisive. Oh well.
John, my copy is on its way and should arrive Saturday. I plan to go pretty intense at it and should have a review up by Wednesday.
"Andrew is my stalker and he goes by several different names."
If this is the same Andrew who also goes by the names of Bertram and Stauffenberg, and also trolls Ex-Christian.net, I may know who he is. He is part of a troll-group in the Kansas City area. I have confronted him in person. If you would like more information, let me know.
Bertram is one of his names. I'm not sure I really care who he is, but if you want to share with me email me (click on my name above).
Just have to chime in. I know this Andrew kid, if he is the same guy. There is a group of four of them who pose as "The Real Four Horsemen." Little high school punk who thinks he is a genius. Even has cards printed up.
Anyhoo, I would like to get the book but I won't order it from Amazon, for various reasons, and, frankly I am ashamed to admit that I can't have it come by the house. (I hope you will understand.)
Is it going to be in mainstream bookstores anytime soon?
Debbie: "Is it going to be in mainstream bookstores anytime soon?"
It's available on Border's website. If it's not actually in the store I'm sure they could order it for you.
John, you have accused me of being a stalker, thus accusing me of a crime.
According to the law student upstairs, this is LIBEL PER SE, a tort. Further, you are apparently conspiring with another poster to obtain personal information about me, which he believes is a violation of the civil rights act and an invasion of privacy. He will do some more research on that.
Further, you have spread vicious lies about me posting on Craig's list, and I am certain you know that is not true.
Of course, I am not suprised that you are willing to lie. You admitted in your own book that you are a liar and the Holding escapade is well known, meaning that your credibility is zip.
These remarks are for informational purposes only.
If we did not moderate comments here Andrew and his fellows would post shit every single day. Above is one example I let slide.
Debbie, my book will be available in the national bookstores and university libraries soon. When I don't know.
Hi John,
Finished your fine book and my review is up. About the time I finished, it occurred to me there may have been three themes rather than two. I included the themes that run throughout stressing superstition of the people and inmportance of worldview, but I forgot about the difficulty discerning an accurate history after the fact. Oh well, the review was getting too long and I didn't want to change it.
DB
Spinozanator, thanks so much! Remember, I had devout Christians in mind when I wrote it. That means some skeptics might not like it as much as other works, and I said that. I see you highly recommended it despite the fact you're a skeptic who might've liked a difference emphasis at times. Thanks. It's a reference work, a large work, one that people can refer to on both sides of the debate.
I think that by telling people, Christians or skeptics, what Christian defenders must believe in order to defend their faith, that it will open their eyes to the gerrymandering required to believe. I also think the Bible debunks itself, so all I have to do is to tell them what the Bible says about these issues.
Thanks!
John,
You have my deepest sympathy at having to put up with the nonsense of people spreading horrible lies about you. I don't know how I would respond to it, but I don't think I'd be very gracious. I just want you to know that your site has made a wonderful difference in my life.
I am about halfway through your book, and the only criticism I have is your personal testimony. One poster said it was boring, but it was certainly not that. Rather, I am disappointed at knowing how you will be abused by your opposition because of your openness.
Toby, thanks.
Over at Atheim is Dead I posted this comment (which hasn't been approved yet):
The only thing I ever did wrong in my debates on the net is to try to discuss the issues that divide us reasonably. I shouldn't have tried. I shouldn't have expected the people I attempted this with to do likewise. I was maligned at every opportunity and so I fired back. I shouldn't have done that. I've learned from this experience and won't sink to that level ever again.
As far as Daddy Cool's slanderous accusations, I deny them all. This is an example of what I mean. How many of you posting here could take such false things said about you over and over without getting upset? I now expect it. It's par for the course coming from people like him.
As far as my arguments go, you can say I don't understand theology all you want to, but Christian apologists and philosophers like Drs. Norm Geisler, James F. Sennett and Mark Linville disagree.
The books listed in this blog post all sound interesting to me, but wouldn't you think that the one book that has gotten the most attention here should be the one you should engage the most? I mean, after all, if Christians seem to rail against me and my book the most, wouldn't you want to know why they do? May I suggest that it is everything that Geisler, Linville, Sennett and others say it is?
I truly believe this book of mine will cause somewhat of an upheaval, especially when book review editors for newspapers like Chicago Tribune and LA Times receive their copies and a few of them write about it who are not friends of Christian theism. Then if all you can say is that I'm a liar or that I'm stupid your responses will simply not cut it anymore. Good luck with that.
I very much appreciate how open you are and how willing you are to wear your heart and emotions on your sleeve, and are so quick to admit to shortcomings and mistakes. Trust me among the vast majority of fair minded people you have earned a great deal of respect, mine included.
As far as the Atheismisdead crew the only thing you could do to make them happy would be to convert back to Christianity. I can see the blog post if that happened:
"John Loftus one of todays leading and respected, well educated, articulate, intelligent, well-published, thoughtful atheists rejects atheism!"
They'd love you.
Scary, you scare me! That is LOL funny. Yes, I think they would.
Andrew:
A. Your law student buddy is giving out legal advice who has yet to pass a state Bar Exam…highly legal in and of itself.
B. Libel is extremely hard to prove especially when freedom of speech is a freedom guaranteed right here in the U.S. Bill of Rights.
C. To proceed with a civil case you MUST prove malicious intent. Since you are bring the charge, 75%of the burden of proof is on you.
D. You must PROVE damages to be awarded any settlement in a civil case.
F. No attorney is even going to consider your case without all cost paid up front / paid in advance.
G. With a lot of luck and money plus a damn good attorney, you might have a 30% chance of winning your case.
Hey maybe it's just me but does that guy with the legal sounding bullcrap even deserve a response, andrew or something?
Andrew wants attention, good or bad. He loves it, checks this blog several times a day to see if someone has responded to his posts, goes to bed thinking what a clever thing he posted, it enters his dreams, he wakes up hoping that someone has responded to his posts. It really sucks when no one even notices.
I'm just throwin' this out there.
Harry,
That was a great response to Andrew! But that begs the question of how you came by such knowledge. Are you in league with Satan, er, I mean an attorney? ;)
Take care,
Toby
Harry, you are mistaken.
You notice that Andrew referred to LIBEL PER SE, the accusation of a crime.
This is considered de facto libel, and malicious intent is not required.
And do you have a law license to give out your legal advice?
There are no crimes being committed, you idiot! You haven't got a clue. You cannot libel an anonymous person like Andrew, who is in fact anonymous, since there can be no damages to said person.
John Loftus, I just retrieved your latest book from my PO Box yesterday afternoon. It looks great - much easier to read than your first book. I will write a review as soon as I am able to.
You said:
.I truly believe this book of mine will cause somewhat of an upheaval, especially when book review editors for newspapers like Chicago Tribune and LA Times receive their copies and a few of them write about it who are not friends of Christian theism.
No kidding? Can we expect to see reviews in these major newspapers? Can we expect to see you soon on BookTV reading an excerpt for a small audience? Any other media exposure?
HeIsSailing, I don't know what to expect. I do have hope though. We'll see in a few weeks, a month, or more.
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