Handicapping of Skepticism (part 2)

Human beings have an innate tendency to search for patterns and simple explanations in order to make sense of the world. Such a practice results in an incorporation of elements that fit into an understandable answer and a neglect of elements that do not.

Psychologists often use this phenomenon to explain the reason people believe in clairvoyance, horoscopes, prayer, and other such foolishness. In a sense, we remember when these methods “work” and forget when they do not. With respect to religion, people will often remember “answered” prayers but forget or rationalize the unanswered ones. Have you ever noticed how people will trumpet abundances of miracles when there are a few survivors of an accident or natural disaster yet say nothing about the many people who died? It’s the same principle. Dawkins alludes to this:

[Pope John Paul II’s] polytheistic hankerings were dramatically demonstrated in 1981 when he suffered an assassination attempt in Rome, and attributed his survival to intervention by Our Lady of Fatima: “A maternal hand guided the bullet.” One cannot help wondering why she didn’t guide it to miss him altogether. Others might think the team of surgeons who operated on him for six hours deserved at least a share of the credit; but perhaps their hands, too, were maternally guided.

It is very easy to claim that prayer healed a person dying of a terrible disease, but quite another to prove it. Study after study demonstrates that prayer has no effect on patients when they are unaware that they are being prayed for. On the other hand, when subjects do realize that they are being prayed for, two results tend to reoccur:

1) Patients typically improve from holistic methods, such as laying of hands, meditation, compassionate care, etc. This is nothing new. Medical researchers have well established that the mind can work wonders and inexplicably heal the body. The problem with crediting God for the healing, other than the fact that it only works in concert with the patient’s knowledge of being prayed for, is that the results appear across the religious and irreligious spectrum.

2) Patients sometimes take a turn for the worst due to what some believe is a form of performance anxiety. They may stress over the need to get better in order to not let the people who are praying for them down. Perhaps they might also start dwelling on the severity of their conditions because the physicians are using drastic, unorthodoxed measures like prayer to assist them. People use prayer as their way of appealing to God and use God’s will as an explanation for why certain things happen. Since we can easily discredit the idea of prayer serving as a simple pattern for the complex natural events of the world, its usefulness should be self-evidently ridiculous.

[Source: STEP from American Heart Journal April 2006, MANTRA from Lancet volume 366, and the 2001 Mayo Clinic coronary care unit trial are perhaps the three most definitive investigations on the topic.]

Suppose we really wanted to test the power of prayer and see to it that no confounding variables from the temporal realm would be present. To begin the study, we gather a group of fifty atheists and a group of fifty Christians who volunteer to have an extremely lethal dose of bacteria injected intravenously. Following the injection, we provide the fifty atheists with a regimen of broad-spectrum antibiotics to counteract the infection. We then isolate the atheists in a secret location and tell no one that they are involved in the experiment. Essentially, they do not exist to the rest of the world. Likewise, we isolate the Christians in a secret location but refuse them the antibiotic regimen. News of the fifty Christians injected with the lethal bacteria will then be broadcast over the entire Christian world. The report will ask everyone to pray to God for their facilitated recovery from the infection so that deductive reasoning will force the world to acknowledge the one true religion because of the unquestionable and verifiable power of God and prayer. Because no one knows about the atheists in isolation, no one is specifically praying for them. All they have are antibiotics, while the Christians have the power of prayer from hundreds of millions of certain volunteers and the omnipotence of God. After two months, we will end the experiment and see which group has the most survivors.

Whether or not Christians are willing to admit it, I think everyone knows which group would fare better in this study. No semi-rational Christian would ever sign up for this deadly experiment even with the added promise of a great monetary compensation for the survivors. They know that God isn’t really going to answer the divinely directed requests of hundreds of millions of Christians because God only seems to answer prayers in some mystical and unobservable fashion. Deep down, these Christians may even realize that they cannot consider prayer dependable. Some Christians reading the results of this hypothetical experiment would simply appeal to authorities who assert that there have been studies demonstrating just the opposite. Other Christians would manufacture reasons such as “God doesn’t like being tested” or “People didn’t have enough faith.” They will avoid the rational conclusion that prayers are only “answered” by placebo effect. They will avoid admitting that tragic events or unbelievable coincidences are the result of complex natural factors. They will avoid admitting that prayers have answers just as often as problems have solutions.

22 comments:

Evan said...

Excellent post Jason. Your experiment has been tested on a small scale in Oregon.

Jason Long said...

It's all funny...until it happens.

Anonymous said...

Believers will retreat to the view that they should not test God whenever they face such a scenario as this. Such a convenient excuse, don't you think? Where are the Elijah's and Jeremiah's of our day who throw down public tests to see whether their God exists? I think it's because Christians just don't want to be embarrassed, or in this case, to die!

ahswan said...

There's a big difference between faith and presumption.

Evan said...

Ahswan are you suggesting that Elijah didn't presume?

Logosfera said...

That's why I am the opinion that fundamentalists are the only true believers. Those that don't allow for blood transfusion, don't believe in mutations and don't use medicines created based on this "theory", those that take the "holy books" as they should be taken (the direct source for truth or complete bullshit), those that kill their children because a passage in their holy book, those are the real believers.
And if the wisshy-washy believers would have the balls to piss on the Pascal's wager and see there is no point in supporting the belief in their invisible sky-daddy we would probably be able to lock the fundamentalists in mental institutions.
But no, they cling to things that they can't even imagine (immortality, heaven, dwelling on god's glory) and for that they have to accept the hell for others.

akakiwibear said...

The ever apparent problem with atheist argument is the ‘straw man’ tendency. The misrepresentation (deliberate or not) of theist belief to ‘prove’ a point is simply playing to the audience of the non-sceptical atheist.

Early in Jason’s post he tries to draw referential credibility Psychologists often use this phenomenon to explain the reason people believe in clairvoyance, horoscopes, prayer, and other such foolishness … I am sure I don’t have to explain his trick to you.

Next he builds his first straw man; that Christians believe that all prayers are answered as prayed. I see his oblique acknowledgement of his fault in people will often remember “answered” prayers but forget or rationalize the unanswered ones..
Now let’s face it, even Christ’s prayer to be spared the crucifixion was not answered in the way he would have liked – so why should Christians expect better treatment than Christ? Jason is not attacking a Christian belief – I don’t know which belief system he is attacking though.

Then he proposes an experiment that no ethics committee would even consider - but as an atheist I presume that his morality is entirely subjective and proposing an experiment that he believes will certainly kill Christians is OK.

As for the experiment itself – it is a straw man too … it is contrary to a fundamental element of theism, that belief in God is a matter of choice (as is his non-belief). If the experiment was properly conducted and all the Christians survived then perhaps one could argue that God’s existence has been proven – but then choice is removed. Again I don’t know which belief system Jason is attacking, but it is not Christianity.

Furthermore it is a fundamental of Christianity that as in Matthew 4:7 or Luke 4:12 “YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.” So in proposing a test to prove his point Jason has gone outside the belief system he attacks. Jason may be proving an interesting point in regard to some belief system or another, but not in regard to Christianity.

There is nothing new in Jason’s point. Many have hypothesised ways in which God could prove His existence beyond doubt – Christ flying off the cross across Jerusalem while blowing raspberries to the Jewish leaders may have worked.

The thing is Jason, when you choose to attack a belief you need to attack the belief itself rather than build your straw man around what it does not believe.

Sala kahle - peace

Russ said...

Isn't it the case that even though some god doesn't like being tested, if it is going to confer benefits to believers preferentially over non-believers, there should always be a clearly discernible mark of its divine intervention manifest through measurable differences in life outcomes between the two groups? If a deity is really looking out for those that worship it, shouldn't the least desirable life outcome among believers be better than the best life outcome for any non-believer? Shouldn't every believer have an observably better life than any non-believer ... atheist Bill Gates, for instance?

The country Sweden has loads of non-believers, so shouldn't they rank rather poorly on measures of societal well-being like infant mortality? If a god's really out there taking care of its own, shouldn't infants in a heathen country like Sweden bite the big one far more often than a really religious country like the good ol' US of A? However, precisely the opposite is true.

Sweden has the world's lowest infant mortality rate and they rank as one of the world's least religious. Infant mortality in the US ranks around fiftieth in world. We've got money, power, and a church on every corner, but our babies die at a far higher rate than the babies of the non-religious Swedes. Seems to me faith ain't doing our infants any favors. If a god is out there it's been tested and it has failed. I'm no Abraham, so I'll take a healthy baby over faith in a tried and failed deity anytime.

Written history provides us with a record of the lives of saints and sinners alike. Doesn't this bashful god understand that we can analyze this record and determine whether the faithful have fared better than the not so faithful? Seems that whole omniscient thing ain't working out too well. Such analyses have been done and they've failed to demonstrate that having faith improves lives at all, aside from the somewhat annoying fact that professing faith has, down the ages, made it a teensy weensy bit less likely that your fellow faithful would burn you at the stake, hang you, or publicly eviscerate you, but only a teensy weensy bit, mind you.

The hypothesis of faith is continuously under investigation and the accrued evidence shows that it does not make one smarter or better looking, nor does it save one from the ravages of obesity, cancer, diabetes or Alzheimers. Tests of the god's handiwork like these are ever-ongoing, they're non-stop, but they have yet to turn up a success.

Russ said...

akakiwibear,

Please tell Jason which one of the tens of thousands of versions of Christianity you're referring to. Simply put there is no ONE religion that is Christianity. More than that, because Christians attribute numerous contradictory traits to the thing they call, God, Christianity is an observably polytheistic religion.

Christianities run the gamut of human wishful thinking. There are Christianities with god and with no god. There are Christianities with a god that sends people to hell and ones whose god would never do that. There are Christianities with a divine Jesus and ones where Jesus is not divine. There are Christianities that believe in miracles and ones that do not.

Note also, akakiwibear, if you consider yourself Christian, there exists another Christianity, distinct from your preferred version, that has your Christian butt on the fast track to a little one-on-one with Satan. And, remember you share the self-endowed label "Christian" with them. You might see yourself as a "brother in Christ," but they see you as as much a heretic as me. I'm a complete materialist atheist, akakiwibear, and many of those other Christianities view you as riding the express train to Hell with me and my fellow atheists. In the eyes of many Christians, you are just as hated, just as wrong, just as deserving of an eternity of torture as I am, because you are the wrong type of Christian. You know it's true. Many of your fellow "in-name-only-Christians" would be no more caring or understanding of you than they are of me, and you know it.

During my youth, akakiwibear, I associated with many different Christian denominations, all of which saw all of the others as doomed. Choose a Christian sect and you are in some other Christianity's crosshairs. Regardless of which denomination you choose, by some other denomination's reckoning, you are hell bound.

Note, akakiwibear, that at this moment in time there are over 34000 Christian sects worldwide, and the number grows by the hundreds every year. And, akakiwibear, you know, too, that you can concoct your own Christianity just like Joseph Smith did with Mor(m)onism, just like Mary Baker Eddy did with Christian Science, or just like Koresh did with the Branch Davidians. You can be a Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggert, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Ted Haggart, Kent Hovind, T. D. Jakes, Rick Warren, a self-fashioned Pope(this title is particularly good if you are pedophile or want to open a brothel) or some other glowing testament to the creative potential of the human mind. You can use the brand name, "Christianity," royalty-free(it's very popular and it permits the manufacture of bullshit at will, with impunity, ad nauseum) and you can scream with absolute certainty that yours is the one true Christianity, the only one that leads to salvation. You can use the Bible, or just bits and pieces of it like so many of your predecessors, or, if you are quite industrious, you can make up your own holy book, a la Joseph Smith. Even if it is provably false, no one will care; religious people gulp that shit right down. In any case, the bits and pieces you choose from the Bible, or the content of your own personal holy book, should prove your doctrine and you should be sure to include the part wherein you are entitled, by all that is holy, to say twenty percent of your mark's, oops, I mean follower's, pre-tax income.

Welcome to the tried and true tradition of roll-your-own Christianity. Let us know how your new and improved Christianity works out for you as Christianity number 34001.

Reverend Phillip Brown said...

Hey guys,

I love this prayer test thing Its my favorite.

just one thing to say.

If you pray. God can answer, yes, no, maybe? Take your pick. Either way you cannot debunk Christianity.

Thanks for trying?

Rev. Phil.

P.S. By the way, Evan why are you on this post and not on your own? There are many blogs against your most recent proposed theory yet you seem to be on this blog but not answering your won blog?

Why is this the case?

Rev Phil.

P.S.S. I would have thought that you have dealt with you own blog before appearing on others? Or is this the atheist tactic in this site?

sconnor said...

Rev. Phil,

If you pray. God can answer, yes, no, maybe? Take your pick. Either way you cannot debunk Christianity.

Funny, I've thrown coins in a wishing well, before and got the same, exact, answers.

--S.

Evan said...

Yes Rev Phil, it's totally bizarre for me to make two posts on September 21 before 1 PM and not answer your post from today, September 22 that you posted after September 21 at 1 PM.

Do you even read timestamps?

Anonymous said...

Wait, if one isn't supposed to put this Lord guy to the test and he can answer any way that he wants, what were He and Elijah doing in 1 Kings 18?

Jason Long said...

The ever apparent problem with atheist argument is the ‘straw man’ tendency. The misrepresentation (deliberate or not) of theist belief to ‘prove’ a point is simply playing to the audience of the non-sceptical atheist.

Let's see.

Early in Jason’s post he tries to draw referential credibility: Psychologists often use this phenomenon to explain the reason people believe in clairvoyance, horoscopes, prayer, and other such foolishness … I am sure I don’t have to explain his trick to you.

I don't *try*. I *do*. I use the opinions of experts in the field on why people believe absurd things. And you might want to explain my "trick."

Next he builds his first straw man; that Christians believe that all prayers are answered as prayed. I see his oblique acknowledgement of his fault in people will often remember “answered” prayers but forget or rationalize the unanswered ones..
Now let’s face it, even Christ’s prayer to be spared the crucifixion was not answered in the way he would have liked – so why should Christians expect better treatment than Christ?


Because Matthew 21:21-22 tells them so? Because they are willing to die to defend their beliefs? Because it would prove the existence of their god? Because it would bring good reason to end religious wars?

Jason is not attacking a Christian belief – I don’t know which belief system he is attacking though.

Not attacking a Salad Bar Christian belief, I don't guess.

Then he proposes an experiment that no ethics committee would even consider - but as an atheist I presume that his morality is entirely subjective and proposing an experiment that he believes will certainly kill Christians is OK.

I'm sure I don't have to explain satire to you.

As for the experiment itself – it is a straw man too … it is contrary to a fundamental element of theism, that belief in God is a matter of choice (as is his non-belief).

When the threat of punishment looms, it is not choice - it is duress. Simply offering someone a dichotomy of everlasting torture or everlasting happiness with the prerequisite that one must follow certain actions is not ethical behavior. What choice would there be in such a situation? It is absurd, if not for any other reason, because it conflicts with the inherent freedom to believe as one chooses. We did not see or hear what the Bible claims, and God has not addressed us directly concerning these claims. We have only a book of hearsay testimony – a composition reading and sounding nothing different from superstition, written many centuries ago in a superstitious age to provide superstitious people with a refuge from reality. We have a right – and when absurd, an intellectual duty – not to believe such things. People should have the option not to exist for eternity and thus be exempt from the reward/punishment system if they want no part of such ambiguity. I for one would certainly never want to reside in the domain of a being who arbitrarily kills people at his own discretion.

If the experiment was properly conducted and all the Christians survived then perhaps one could argue that God’s existence has been proven – but then choice is removed.

And how exactly does this remove choice? People could not still choose to disbelieve?

Again I don’t know which belief system Jason is attacking, but it is not Christianity.

This again?

Furthermore it is a fundamental of Christianity that as in Matthew 4:7 or Luke 4:12 “YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.” So in proposing a test to prove his point Jason has gone outside the belief system he attacks.

Yawn. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "TEST EVERYTHING. HOLD ON TO THE GOOD."

Jason may be proving an interesting point in regard to some belief system or another, but not in regard to Christianity.

Again?

There is nothing new in Jason’s point. Many have hypothesised ways in which God could prove His existence beyond doubt – Christ flying off the cross across Jerusalem while blowing raspberries to the Jewish leaders may have worked.

Or even more ridiculous, he could have made a donkey talk to its...

Oh wait.

The thing is Jason, when you choose to attack a belief you need to attack the belief itself rather than build your straw man around what it does not believe.

The thing is akakiwibear, when you choose to believe in something as ridiculous as the Bible, psychologists are going to attempt to explain why.

akakiwibear said...

As expected replies to my last comment focused on the another atheist straw man – the “well other Christians believe it”.
E.g. Russ said if you consider yourself Christian, there exists another Christianity, distinct from your preferred version and
Jason said Not attacking a Salad Bar Christian belief, I don't guess
So let’s test the straw man on this issue.

Firstly, be clear that I don’t question that there are variants to Christian belief. I challenge Jason's specific straw man that there are lots of Christian denominations who do not share the view on prayer that I expressed.

I said that Christians do not believe that all prayer is answered when and how they want – I cited as an example Christ’s prayer to be spared crucifixion.

So to those who threw up the “not all Christians believe that” my challenge is simple – back up your claim!
Identify for me any significant Christian denomination that professes a belief that all prayer is answered when and how they want. Note not that prayer is answered, but how and when – the premise of Jason’s straw man experiment.

Once you have identified them maybe Jason will want to arrange an experiment – say jumping out of a plane without a parachute to test their belief ;)

Sala kahle – peace

akakiwibear said...

Janson, thank for your full reply.
You start with you might want to explain my "trick.". Oh come now, you did it unawares!

First you say “Psychologists often” … you imply all psychologists, to be accurate you sound say some and then cite reference – but you lead readers to the false position that all psychologists see things the way you do.

Next you group “clairvoyance, horoscopes, prayer” which although quite different you seek to link in the mind of the non-sceptical reader, implying that any criticism of one is equally valid for the others.

Thirdly you connect the unconnected three with “and other such foolishness” again leading the gullible reader to the conclusion you want – all psychologists consider clairvoyance, horoscopes, prayer to be foolishness.

Now perhaps “trick” was imprecise terminology, and to call deceptive writing may be more appropriate ... but it was the least of my criticism of your OP. and there are bigger fish to fry.

Sala kahle - peace

akakiwibear said...

Jason you say that belief in God is not a choice with When the threat of punishment looms, it is not choice - it is duress. Now here you may have a point and I grant that some Christian groups hold that those without faith end up in hell – I and the largest Christian denomination happen to disagree with them. So is it a straw man to pick out a small grouping rather than the largest – perhaps not.

But, does God remove choice or try to limit it by duress? No, these are the actions of people. Choice, which you have exercised in spite of the duress you claim, remains at the heart of theist belief.

And how exactly does this remove choice? People could not still choose to disbelieve? My wording was loose, I apologise, I implied that once something was proven people would believe it – true that does not remove choice, it establishes a proven fact and irrational people can still choose not to believe it. Odd that you seem happy with duress removing choice but not reason … ?


Jason, you have a flair for deceptive writing. Nice one with Yawn. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "TEST EVERYTHING. HOLD ON TO THE GOOD." Not only the “yawn” to imply it is so easy you must be right and not just a quote out of context, you even pick the right translation to mislead.

In context from New American Standard Bible (the specific words used are less important than the context) the text reads 20. do not despise prophetic utterances. 21. But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.

Not quite what you wanted the non-sceptical reader to think, namely that it related to prayer. It clearly urges a sceptical approach, one your readers should adopt.

Sala kahle - peace

Jason Long said...

First you say “Psychologists often” … you imply all psychologists, to be accurate you sound say some and then cite reference – but you lead readers to the false position that all psychologists see things the way you do.

I'll specify most psychologists then, even if I don't think the implication is there.

Next you group “clairvoyance, horoscopes, prayer” which although quite different you seek to link in the mind of the non-sceptical reader, implying that any criticism of one is equally valid for the others.

Thirdly you connect the unconnected three with “and other such foolishness” again leading the gullible reader to the conclusion you want – all psychologists consider clairvoyance, horoscopes, prayer to be foolishness.


They are equally bankrupt because they are all equally debunked in controlled studies. You might not like this, but it is reality.

In context from New American Standard Bible (the specific words used are less important than the context) the text reads 20. do not despise prophetic utterances. 21. But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good. …

KJV, NKJV, NIV, ASV, Young's, Webster's, and HNV: they do not link 20 and 21 with a conjunction. This is because they know what they are doing. The Greek "alla" or "de" was used in transition when writers wanted to draw contrast between two points. The writer himself used "alla" three times in that very chapter, but not here. The writer himself used "de" three times in that very chapter, but not here. He used a contrasting conjunction six times, and those versions render "but" six times. But now for some strange reason, the NASB has seven "but"s in that chapter. Why oh why?

The context is clear. There are a series of short commands from verses 15-22, and when those commands necessitate a contrast, a Greek conjunction is used, as we see in verse 15. No conjunction is used between 20 and 21 because the writer was not drawing a contrast. Why oh why?

Now you can go fry your bigger fish.

Reverend Phillip Brown said...

Hi Evan and sconnor

Thanks for the comments.

@ Both your point? What do you mean? Its seems to me you just disprove your point. But please explain?

Rev Phil.

sconnor said...

Rev. Phil,

@ Both your point? What do you mean? Its seems to me you just disprove your point. But please explain?


How about you tell me what you think it means.

--S.

RealisticCynic said...

Christians tend to "fall to prayer" when times are rough. When things are going good, there usually isn't time to pray. As far as the experiment is concerned, I agree, 99.9% of religious people would not want to test their faith to that degree. But, answer the riddle of the Islamic suicide bombers. I know that you are only debunking christianity, but atheists do not believe in any form of religion. So, are Muslims who are willing to die for Allah (or what they believe to be the will of Allah) more worthy than christians?

Anonymous said...

Realisticcynic, what riddle?

Do you think the suicide bombers expected to survive? Obviously allah hasn't been much help to them in that case.

And what do you mean by "worthy"?

Worthy of what and by whom?