The Library of a Preacher Friend
Today I visited a "tent-making" pentecostal preacher/contractor friend and I was surprised to find he had a massive library filling up nearly a whole bedroom sized office space in his home. I browsed the books and did not find one book written by a liberal or a skeptic. I found Bible commentaries from conservative publishers, self-help psychology based Christian books (like how to have a good marriage, or raise good Christian kids), expositor's preaching books, spiritual warfare books, and a handful of apologetic books written by conservatives. He is a conservative and only reads conservative books. So no wonder he's a conservative. He does not have to read what the liberals say, or the skeptics. Others do that for him who tell him why they are wrong. His library assumes that the Bible is true. All he needs to do is understand the Bible and apply it. His reading is based on trust. He trusts conservatives to tell him how to understand, apply, and preach the truth. He does not trust anyone else. Others will deceive him. Sheesh.
26 comments:
So much for the idea that reading broadens the mind.
Brings to mind Mark Twain:
"Reading made Don Quixote a gentleman; believing what he read made him mad."
Yes, others WILL deceive him, and talk about him on their blogs.
Sheesh, John! You say he is your friend and you talk about him dismissively.
Hate to see what you would say about people you hated!
Your pal,
Winston.
(By the way, it was pointed out that I could simply change my name and tone and avoid getting deleted.
But those people miss the point. The point, John, is to let you know I am backing you up. I shall be with you always.)
Confirmation bias.
Winston should do some reading. He might intend the irony he foists on us.
Chuck, take a look at John's post. He says the man is a friend.
The man let him into his home.
And John is talking about him on his blog.
Did John tell him he was going to do that when he let John look at his books?
Moreover, if it is a bedroom/library I "lack belief" in John's claim that he was able to take look at the titles.
He may have missed many.
Selection pressure, anyone?
I read John's post again.
Yep.
A massive library, which he "browsed".
And from this he draws conclusions about his "friend".
Gimme a break.
Winston
It is ironic you should judge John for his disparegement of a friend's library as a means to dismissing a philosophical position when your only argument here against John's philosophical position is to repeatedly remind John of his infidelity.
John,
The fact is that most Christians don't even read their Bible. A study was recently done and you can read about it here: Since fundamentalists insist the Bible is the revealed word of God and without error, you would think they’d have read it. But you’d often be wrong. I gave a listing of the sixty-six books in the King James Bible to a large sample of parents and asked them, “How many of these have you read, from beginning to end? Nineteen percent of the Christian fundamentalists said they had never read any of the books from beginning to end, which was neatly counterbalanced by twenty percent who said they had read all sixty-six.
you are not going to tell me what I believe...
we're going to play a NEW GAME...
FROM NOW ON:
EVERYTHING YOU SAY I WILL DOUBLE ON YOU...
Atheists,
you are going to learn even to TALK about GOD the way you do is going to cost you your lives...
Atheists,
you are going to learn even to TALK about GOD the way you do is going to cost you your lives...
the writing on the wall...
f*ck you very much!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg
see, you degenerates have last names like first names...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
how about I believe in WHATEVER I want - even in the FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER! - and you have nothing to say!
let me show you the end results of this particular *ONE-DIMENSIONAL SCIENTIFIC MODE*
of thinking that is called *CRITICAL THINKING*, which is completely divorced from
any human objectives...
this style has been perfected by dawkins, pz, randi and the other *NEW ATHEISTS*
**
THE BOOBQUAKE - 911!
see how we take a term and convert it into its AUTHENTIC POLITICAL DIMENSION - THAT
OF LIBERATION - not just merely harmless expression...
visit
http://dissidentphilosophy.lifediscussion.net/philosophy-f1/the-boobquake-911-t1310.htm
Concerning (but not addressed to) the lunatic DM: I'll bet that even the fundy preacher in John's post does not imagine that an incoherent harangue becomes intelligible discourse through mere repetition. Here is a Google listing of sites that our patron lunatic has befouled with his latest stream of verbal diarrhea. At this moment, it extends to three pages.
GMpilot: Very apposite quotation.
Ken Pulliam: I think that a more significant part of the report by Altemeyer from which you quote is the bits in which he reports the results of a quiz comprising four very easy questions about the Bible (e.g., "Is the story of Sampson and Delilah in Exodus, the Gospel of Matthew, the Acts of the Apostles, or Judges?"): "The sample as a whole barely scored above chance on my four-question quiz, which makes sense when you recall that most of their parents had not even read one book in the Bible."
He actually stays "closer" to the truth as a conservative because of over simplifications like verbal inspiration and sola scriptura.
Because the canons of scripture contain the Word of God throughout the imperfect koine Greek/ancient Hebrew/Paleo Hebrew/Aramaic (parts of Daniel - NOT referring to the Targum)- it allows the conservative to continually fill their mind up with the logic/reason of God and how it relates to Christ.
I am glad that they don't have your book because your book is very dangerous without commentary from a systematic theologian who can answer your objections.
I've read Sam Harris, Bart Ehrman, Dawkins and all the rest (in fact I don't read Christian apologists except on the internet)and I find that your first book WIBA is the most dangerous book to causing a Christian to doubt their faith.
For me, personally, I told you it was the same old same old because these are the questions I have had to answer over and over for the last 15 years...but to a Christian who believes they are a strong apologists and they are actually weak in their faith...this could contribute to their apostasy.
Until we have more publications that actually answer your questions (and we are logically behind), I'm somewhat greatful that he didn't have your book.
It I was allowed to take your book and write/add commentary to it on every page and answer every point...then I would recommend it to ALL Christians to strengthen their faith....knowing that there ARE answers. QE
DM:
You are nothing short of a Big Mouth Propelled by a Weak Mind!
As for as you rambling ranting goes,I’ve got two words for you: SCREW YOU!!
"It I was allowed to take your book and write/add commentary to it on every page and answer every point...then I would recommend it to ALL Christians to strengthen their faith....knowing that there ARE answers. QE"
At least you feel the need to 'add' commentary. I already recommend that Christians and those thinking of becoming Christians actually read the bible....in order to weaken their faith. It doesn't even requre commentary. Just reading the bible is often enough to persuade even a slightly rational person that it is drivel. I first read it (genesis thru rev.) when I was 15. Such strong doubts and questions were planted in my mind that a couple of years later the whole house of christian cards came tumbling down. As many atheists will attest, reading the bible played a big part in my rejecting Christianity and theism.
I wish many more would simply read it as if they were reading any other 'holy' book rather than having their preacher or sunday school teachers interpet it all for them and pick and choose which parts to apply and which to ignore.
When I began my study of comparative religion I read all sorts of wonderful things about the Upanishads..about how deep and philosophical they were. Later, having actually read them, I was struck by the fact they were mostly just drivel with a few nuggets of wisdom here and there....like the bible.
To a muslim, no book can hold a light to the glorious quran. It's the very word of god as dictated to Muhammed. They practically worship the book itself. Having read it, I found it even less awe-inspiring or profound than the bible.
Reading about buddhism, it seemed the buddhist sutras must surely be full of wisdom and enlightenment. Unfortunately, while the sutras tend to be more philosophical than western religious texts, they too are full of religious mumbo jumbo. Visions, superstition, miracles interspersed with some wise advice.
It's basically the same for all the religious texts I've read over the decades. Having read and reread the bible many times over the past 36 years, I still fail to see anything especially wonderful or profound in it's text that sets it above the other religious holy books.
It seems you have to begin with the conclusion that a book (like the bible) is divine, wise and wonderful in order to come to the conclusion that it is divine, wise and wonderful. Sort of like your own 'answers' here. They may seem profound and convincing to you because you've already imbibed the Christian kool aid. To unbelievers, your reasoning seems tortured and circular and your answers excessively verbose and unconvincing. I don't know, maybe to your fellow christians you're some sort of philosophical genius who has successfully resolved all of christianity's problems and contradictions. No doubt my unbelief has blinded me to the clarity and logic of your answers.
Let me try to defend John's friend here : if this massive library simply reflects say the last 10 years worth of reading, AFTER he spent say five years fairly assessing all options, and then choose to from then onwards only read what he agrees with, I would say that is fair enough. I read all sorts of stuff, but I only keep in my library books that somehow mean something to me. Having a look at my library for example would show me to be a rather one-eyed atheist. It does not reflect some 500-600 Christian books that I have read in my time.
I know I am generalizing, but maybe we shouldn't judge a library owner's mind and knowledge by the books in the library.
I think a lot of people just want to be comfortable in their little world. They don't want to challenge and possibly upset themselves by reading the "dangerous" stuff. They are happy as they are-why rock the boat?
Also some people don't really enjoy reading. When they do read, they'd want something easy, entertaining, etc. Which the Bible is not.
I'm a big reader, but if I had a choice of books in the past, I'd certainly pick them over the Bible. The Bible bored me and was hard to comprehend.
Reading the Bible devotionally started to seem absurd. Now I'm actually kinda fascinated with it because I read it critically with an open mind, although I find it depressing sometimes also.
Christians have to pretend to be excited about "the Word of God!!" and act like they love reading it. Maybe some truly do, but I think most people consider it a chore.
Zenmite
Good critique of Breckmin's apologetics but we need to find a different word then the english word "verbose" to adequately describe his pedantic and pretentious rhetoric.
Chuck,
How about bloviating? Pontificating?
To be fair, Breckmin writes as if he really believes what he writes. I've often wondered if believers (of any religion or ideology) actually have a different type of 'logic' than skeptics. I've often been accused of having a bias against the supernatural. To me, this seems like suggesting I have a bias against 'magic'.
Yes it is amazing how bigoted I am when it comes to invisible creatures.
Christians are running out of things to say about the existence of God, but Breckmin has apparently found utility in a new(?) principle called the "imperfection of language."
This, of course, is true. We atheists can use it as another reason to dismiss the Bible as nothing BUT language and wait for definitive evidence from any so-called God.
I have a feeling, like other Christian apologists, Breckmin can decipher the Bible and all its imperfections in language and tell us what is "Truth" and what is a distortion. What we can believe outright as a reasonable translation into imperfect English, and what needs to be modified to match Breckmins preconceived conclusion. And I guess we're supposed to trust his "wisdom."
QB (Question Breckmin)
"but Breckmin has apparently found utility in a new(?) principle called the "imperfection of language.""
I can not take credit for what has been debated down through the centuries.
In 1978, for example, their were several theologians who could not honestly sign the Chicago Statement (on biblical inerrancy)
because of this obvious dynamic.
The debate goes back much further than this throughout church history. There is nothing new under the sun.
Chuck said re Breck :
"...but we need to find a different word then the english word "verbose" to adequately describe his pedantic and pretentious rhetoric."
I agree that we should honour him in our language. I would suggest as a verb, as in "Andre breckminned his argument and therefore no-one was able to follow him.", or "Sorry, you breckminned so please repeat that."
Or of course as noun :
'brekmin (brek min) : noun : to obfuscate and pontificate without knowing what either word means, to lose sight of, to answer a question with non sequiturs in manner approximating factual discourse, to elevate grandiose nonsense to theological and apologetic art form.
This is of great practical value to theology.
"to elevate grandiose nonsense to theological and apologetic art form."
Reading between the lines you used "to elevate." Perhaps we are making 'progress.' (theology)
Now we just need to be specific on what is alleged nonsense and specifically "why?" Question Breckmin. There are answers to the alleged inconsistencies...and when you do see the logic... elevation to Christ is eternally everything.
@ Andre LOL
All the theists here have helped turn me into an atheist.
I entered this site a believing christian in search of info on William Lane Craig. Sticking around after stumbling across DC I watched the back and forth and frankly the christian arguments are what you hear in church and the atheist arguments are better.
"Yes it is amazing how bigoted I am when it comes to invisible creatures."
The Infinite Creator of the universe is not a creature. He is your Heavenly Father...and you will never be satisfied without Him. Ask Him what has happened.
Breckmin
Are you threatening me into believing in your imaginary friend? I am very satisfied. I have a loving wife, interesting work, a healthy son and no longer empower fear appeals as a viable means to truth. You are a petty and small minded person who seems more mentally ill with every post.
Question the "feeling" of feeling powerful, especially when we are all infinitely small.
Humility for us is always logical.
From weakness comes our flesh getting out of the way of God's Spirit.
Relationship to your Holy Father is Spiritual. Question why.
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