Quote of the Day by Chuck O'Connor
This goes into the humor department, lol.
This quote and context can be seen here.
Neal,
What do you care if, "John has apparently made it his mission in life to debunk Christianity?"
I never understood this type of defensive when I was a "believer" and find it comical now.
You assert that you have a personal relationship with the most powerful being in the entire universe who also happens to live inside of you at the same time yet get mad when John says that reltionship doesn't exist.
How strong is that relationship?
I have a great relationship with my son and my wife but if someone put up a blog that said "Debunking Chuck's Marriage and Fatherhood" I'd simply laugh and say whatever.
My "psychologizing" is this, if you really have the kind of personal relationship Christians claim then you would simply see our denial of your relationship as comical because it is so absurd.
My observation is that your anger and insult stem from cognitive dissonance tied to a semi-conscious understanding that your faith commitment is not as real as you assert. You transfer the shame you feel for that half-aware realization to resentment towards those provoking more full awareness and lash out.
If you told me my wife and child didn't exist I'd simply say, "whatever" but when we say your relationship to Jesus is not real you get angry.
Why do you get angry Neal?
Shouldn't you just go and tell Jesus how silly all of us atheists are and the two of you could have a good laugh over some coffee? That's what I'd do with my wife.
This quote and context can be seen here.
22 comments:
Who says I'm not laughing at you and with other Christians at the absurdity of your worldview? I find Chuck's obliviousness extremely funny in many respects. But going to hell because of stubborn close mindedness is not cute. That is why I feel the need to point that out.
I hope you're laughing at me, Marcus. Because I think your views are a fucking riot!
Marcus; Neal and all the other Christians, at least in my experiences, have always been in the defending position instead of the attacking position when athiests and other non-believers point out anomalies in Christianity. It's very hard to do the laughing when you're the one with your back against the wall.
Woo Hoo! I love it when I get recognized on my favorite blog-site. Very cool.
John, one tiny thing, the last name is "or" not "er". My Mom always made a big deal out of that so in honor of her I'll point it out.
Marcus, I struggle to believe you laugh at me and think I am going to be tortured for eternity because I fail to see your imaginary friend as real.
If you were going to get tortured indefinitely simply because you wouldn't acknowledge that Jackie and Griffin O'Connor existed and I absolutely knew of this certainty then I would have you over for dinner every night. I'd also make you play Scrabble against Jackie because she is awesome at it and repeated defeats to her should shame you into believing she is real.
I on the other hand count a devout Roman Catholic (Mass 5X per week); an Orthodox Jew; a practicing Buddhist; a nominal Scientologist; an Associate Pastor of an Evangelical Free Church; a recent MDiv from Trinity Divinity Seminary; and my Evangelical Christian wife as close friends and even claimed Christianity for 7 years but today can only see a "relationship" with Jesus as an act of imagination to ameriliorate future worry.
I don't know your Jesus. Help me see his reality if you think I am going to be tortured for eternity. Where's your compassion?
Chuck, this is the Twilight Zone. Look at the spelling of your last name. It's been changed. Must've been because of a poltergeist or something
@Chuck I'm not laughing at you because you going to hell I'm laughing at your arguments because you think they have merit. Christians are defending because you are the ones being offensive.
As for proving to you that there is a God and the He loves you..that is why I even bother to respond..ignoring your offensiveness and ignorance. Praying that God continues to extend his mercy to you and perhaps the light will come one and you will be saved. That is being compassionate
Marcus,
I simply stated that if someone told me my relationship to my wife wasn't real then I would not get angry because it is so absurd yet when I do the same with some Christians they flip out and get into an insult game. Now, why is that? If they know Jesus why would they become insulted when someone says they don't buy that as plausible? Why wouldn't they just hang out with Jesus and laugh at the assertion? I know that's what I would do if you told me that "Jackie O'Connor isn't real. Your love for her is imaginary and her love for you is simply credulous projection." I'd go home, take Jackie out to dinner and tell her what you said and we'd have a good laugh.
What is about Christians who get angry when I do the same about their personal relationship with Jesus?
Do you really have an interpersonal relationship with this supernatural being that you can confirm without hesitation so that any assertion otherwise would seem absurd?
I don't get angry when you claim my relationship with God is imaginary. I consider you deluded and blinded by your own presuppositions remember? I remember that there was a time i didn't see it either. i feel compassion for you not hatred. If I feel anger it is because I don't you go to hell and you refuse to let God save you. Frustration that I can't get you to see what God has shown me. Anger or Resentment because you don't believe me? Nope.I didn't come up with this. You will give an account but not to me. I expect you won't until God opens your mind and replaces your heart of stone with a heart of flesh.
Marcus,
Do you laugh at me or feel compassion for me? Which is it?
Do you laugh at deluded people?
Why do you care if I have a heart of stone if I am deluded?
I know if someone told me that my relationship to Jackie was imaginary I wouldn't assert I knew why they stated it (e.g. the "heart of stone" paradigm). I'd simply go and enjoy my relationship.
It seems that Christians need to assign value to those that find their personal relationship with Jesus implausible where I would shrug off the same claim made about my relationship to Jackie.
Also, what is Jesus' favorite flavor of Ice Cream? Jackie's is Fat Elvis.
Chuck i explained the difference between laughing at you because you are deluded (just as I was before God touched my mind and heart) and laughing at your sad arguments. I care about your heart because God loves you and cares for you and does not take joy in what is coming to you. This is true for every human being. Why would I not care about what God considers so valuable? That's compassion. i don't want you to go to hell thinking that you are right when you have the opportunity to not go to hell. Enjoying my relationship with God means that I want to share that relationship with as many people as possible. Why would i wanna be selfish enough to keep something so good to myself. I'm saved today because i have people in my life who were not selfish. They told me about Jesus. And i have found them to be right. Like great ice cream, Jesus is too good not to share.
I can talk about your heart and what is wrong with it because i was in the same boat until God took me out of it. The Bible clearly tells us what the problems are and that Jesus is the solution. How can i not share that? You see that is what the Bible is saying yet you reject it.
Don't worry Chuck. Hell was created for satan and His demons. It's the place of everlasting contempt where the punishing worms never die. Indeed it is the place of everlasting destruction and punishment for satan and his demons where humans will go and suffer for awhile but then go extinct.
Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (ESV)
Jude 7-
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities....serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire. (ESV)
2 Peter 2:5
If by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly. (ESV)
Sodom and Gomorrah serve as an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly. They will suffer eternal punishment, be turned to ashes and condemned to extinction.
Indeed, Malachi prophesies that the righteous will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of their feet.
Malachi 4:1-3
For behold the day is coming, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evil doers will be stubble. The day that is coming shall set them ablaze, says the Lord of Hosts, so that it will neither leave them root nor branch.
But for you who fear my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in it's wings....And you shall tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet, on the day when I act says the Lord of Hosts. (ESV)
"They told me about Jesus. And i have found them to be right. Like great ice cream, Jesus is too good not to share."
Apparently the Hare Krishnas, Moonies, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses et al feel the same way. They all believe they have found some special Truth and want to share it with others. The Muslims wanted to share their wonderful message...even if it meant at the point of a sword.
Most all religious groups make similar claims. I was in a cult in the 70's. We believed we were destined to save the world. That we were privy to a special Truth that other's could not see. I tried hard to get all my friends to join up so they could find the wonderful joy and true meaning I'd found.
"I can talk about your heart and what is wrong with it because i was in the same boat until God took me out of it."
Yep. We said that too. This has no more meaning nor does it carry any more weight than my own assertion that I was a christian and I know what is in your heart and mind and what is wrong with it because I was in the same boat.....until rational thought took me out of it.
I use the same logic to argue against the moon landing. If Buzz Aldrin really landed on the moon then he wouldn't need to punch people who deny the moon landing. If Aldrin was truly sure that he landed on the moon, then he would just laugh off the moon landing conspiracy theories.
Debunking Chuck's Marriage and Fatherhood
Wrong parallel. Here's the correct one:
Debunking Marriage and Fatherhood
(Or: Chuck's Family does not exist.)
@Ray:
You have stated the reason why xtians scare the hell out of me. Several examples show that xtians think it is their personal duty to fulfill "the righteous will tread down the wicked" that you quoted from Malachi. Hitler is the recent and arguably greatest example of this superiority complex.
Thank you, John, for doing your best to put an end to this dangerous cult.
@Emory
I don't deny that some "Christians" might think that they are supposed to personally tread on the wicked. These people are either misguided or lying about who they are. As a Christian you ought to know that no one is more wicked than yourself and the only reason why you are assured to miss the coming wrath is because of grace. That's it. People who don't realize that it's God who will be treading on the wicked and his people under their own power and when they get ready scares me too. Go ahead and read the passage in its context. It's a promise that the righteous will overcome those who are wicked not that we conquer by force or arms. The goal for a Christian is to love others and point them to Christ so that they can avoid the wrath that is coming on the wicked.
Hitler indeed had a "hero" complex but it wasn't because he was a Christian (He wasn't).
Emory,
God says "Vengeance is mine I will repay. Rather if your enemy is hungry feed him."
Learn to read things in context.
Oh that's great. Now I'm just not interpreting correctly. If I only understood the bible like you do.......I would still be lost. Please read it yourself and discover what a moral monster your god is.
@ Jay, does Buzz Aldrin punch people who deny the moon landing?
@ Lvka, good correction, I agree that would be the title.
@ Marcus, what is Jesus' favorite flavor of ice cream?
Buzz Aldrin punched Bart Sibrel in the face on September 9, 2002. You should be able to find videos online. I hope you realize my post was tongue in cheek. Someone's reaction to your accusations is a poor indicator of the truth of those accusations.
Jay,
My suggestion was a specific response to a specific statement.
If I said I love the relationship I have with my wife Jackie and your response was, "Jackie doesn't exist." Then I would shrug and say, "Whatever".
If Aldrin did what you say it would not be an equivalent comparison. The person questioning Aldrin's accomplishment is calling his character into question, not if a person exists.
Tell me, do you need to convince others that your most meaningful relationships exist for you to obtains meaning from those relationships? Do you need to convince others of any of your meaningful relationships?
I don't. Christians do.
Post a Comment