Showing posts with label "Talbott". Show all posts
Showing posts with label "Talbott". Show all posts

Is Thomas Talbott a "True Skeptic"?

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On pages 11-15 of his critique of the OTF Christian philosopher Thomas Talbott discusses “The Presumption of Skepticism.” According to him there are three “different kinds of skepticism.” There is “the skepticism of disbelief,” which sometimes requires “a kind of dogmatic certainty.” This is my kind of skepticism he opines, and he implicitly suggests I come across as a “closed-minded dogmatist.” The second kind of skepticism is that of “suspended belief,” which is his kind of skepticism that is “incompatible with dogmatic certainty and sometimes arises when one has the humility to recognize the limits of one’s own knowledge.” Since this is so he says of himself, “I am a true skeptic.” *cough* The third kind of skepticism is “merely the opposite of being overly gullible,” which is a “healthy skepticism” that everyone should have.

The Outsider Test for Faith (OTF) is Not Hard to Understand

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When believers criticize the other faiths they reject, they use reason and science to do so. They assume these other religions have the burden of proof. They assume human not divine authors to their holy book(s). They assume a human not a divine origin to their faiths.

Believers do this when rejecting other faiths. So dispensing all of the red herrings about morality and a non-material universe, the OTF simply asks believers to do unto their own faith what they do unto other faiths. All it asks of them is to be consistent.

The OTF asks why believers operate on a double standard. If that's how they reject other faiths then they should apply that same standard to their own. Let reason and science rather than faith be their guide. Assume your own faith has the burden of proof. Assume human rather than divine authors to your holy book(s) and see what you get. If there is a divine author behind the texts it should be known even with that initial skeptical assumption.

So the OTF uses the exact same standard that believers use when rejecting other religions. If there is any inconsistency at all it is not with the OTF. It is how believers assess truth claims. For it should only take a moment’s thought to realize that if there is a God who wants people born into different religious cultures to believe, who are outsiders, then that religious faith SHOULD pass the OTF.

If Christians want to reject the OTF then either they must admit they have a double standard for examining religious faiths, one for their own faith and a different one for others, or their faith was not made to pass the OTF in the first place. In either case all of their arguments against the OTF are based on red herrings, special pleading, begging the question, the denigrating science, and an ignorance that I can only attribute to delusional blindness.

To read more on the OTF click here.

Thomas Talbott Replies

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I have found most of the criticisms of the Outsider Test for Faith (OTF) are asking it to be something that it is not. The rest are based in a lack of understanding, probably because of the need to believe and defend what cannot be defended. The OTF is expressed to believers that they should examine their own faith with the same level of skepticism they use when examining the other religious faiths they reject. This has annoyed believers, since what it asks is that there should be no double standards when evaluating religious faiths, one for your own culturally inherited religious faith and a different one for the other religious faiths you reject.

The Idea of an Outsider, a Further Critique of Thomas Talbott, Part 1

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On pages 15-20 of the paper written by Christian philosopher Thomas Talbott, “The Outsider Test for Faith: How Serious a Challenge Is It?,” he critiques the idea of an outsider. Let me begin with pages 15-16.

First let me say that whenever it comes to defending any argument critics will offer objections that the author may not have initially considered. This comes as no surprise since authors cannot usually anticipate everything. Even if they can anticipate additional objections they cannot say everything they know in an initial article or chapter. It’s an ongoing dialogue of learning as we go, in making the best case in light of new objections, in responding to these additional objections, and in refining or revising the argument in light of them. That’s why many articles in the journals end up being made into whole books. It looks as if that will happen with my OTF someday too.

The Idea of an Outsider, a Further Critique of Thomas Talbott, Part 2

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On pages 15-20 of Christian philosopher Thomas Talbott’s “The Outsider Test for Faith: How Serious a Challenge Is It?,” he critiques the idea of an outsider.

Talbott's Anticipated Objection to the Rawlsian "Veil of Ignorance" Scenario

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This post anticipates what Thomas Talbott might say to my suggestion that he should get behind the Rawlsian Veil of Ignorance.

Talbott on Progressive Revelation Versus My Claim That Theology Evolves

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I have been faulted for starting my critique of Thomas Talbott's essay at the end. The claim is that I have not dealt with the substance of his critique of the OTF, and that it is found in the earlier portions of his essay. If so, then Talbott himself was wrong to title his last section as "A Fundamental Inconsistency in the Loftus Approach." (p. 20) For what does it mean to use the word "Fundamental" if it is not Fundamental? In any case, I'm going through his essay with a fine toothed comb and will get to it all, so hold your pants on.

To Thomas Talbott on Rape, a Material World, and the OTF

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If I cannot convince a person who argues for a rape ethic that he is wrong, then maybe we should just lock him up in advance. And if I cannot convince a person that there is a material universe, then maybe he should be under intense psychiatric care. In either case, people like them have abandoned reason and science to a delusion that stems from a religion. The OTF seeks to evaluate religion fairly according to reason and science. Tom, you intuitively know your faith does not pass the OTF. So you attack the test. But please tell us why you prefer a double standard, one for evaluating your own culturally inherited faith (with modifications, I know) and a different one for evaluating the faiths of others. This is the point, Tom. Why the double standard? Why? I cannot imagine this in our court system; that fairness means asking the judge to be unfair??? I can hear Tom before a judge now, "Your honor, I humbly request that you decide my case by ignoring the scales of justice in my favor." This is what Tom wants, and he's a Christian philosopher! No wonder I say he gives the philosophical disciplines a bad name, and I am serious, dead serious. Either adopt the same standard for judging all religions or you have been exposed as a deluded person not interested in the truth.

Articulett, A Woman, Responds to Talbott and Reppert on Rape

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Watch out now boys! Get ready for this smack-down:

Another Response to Thomas Talbott, Informing Him Why Rape is Wrong

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In a section titled “A Fundamental Inconsistency in the Loftus Approach,” Talbott says I have no reason to think rape is wrong based on the Outsider Test for Faith (OTF), and claims Victor Reppert’s “previously expressed arguments are pretty decisive in my opinion.” (pp. 20-21) One of these so-called decisive arguments has to do with why we think there is a material world, something I've already addressed. If I'm harsh with Talbott and Reppert then let it be said I don't appreciate Talbott's demeaning attitude toward me. If he can dish it out he should be able to take it.

Another Response to Talbott on the Existence of a Material World

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This is funny but what I think:

Responding to Thomas Talbott: On Why I Think There is a Material World

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Christian philosopher Thomas Talbott recently criticized The Outsider Test for Faith (OTF) in what looks to be an article he might submit to a philosophical journal. I would hope if he does, the editor would include my response if he wants to fully inform his readers. I plan on responding in some detail to his essay in a series of posts. This is the first one.

Thomas Talbott's Critique of the Outsider Test for Faith

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I am honored that Christian universalist Philosopher Thomas Talbott, of Willamette University, has offered a critique of my Outsider Test for Faith. Which can be found here. I plan on responding but I might not get to it for a month (it's not on my high priority list given the other projects I'm involved in right now). [Edit, sorry to say I didn't find anyone's criticisms to deserve the book I had offered for the best one.]