PZ Myers and JW Loftus Compared

The reason I like Pharyngula is that PZ doesn't give a shit what the religious think except when they try to make their stupid ideas and actions affect those outside their sanctuary. Then, it's no-holds-barred ridicule.

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My Response to Ed Brayton of Freethought Blogs

Ed Brayton says he welcomes disagreement. Does he? If we both started driving toward each other we could meet halfway in an hour and a half for a few beers and laughs. We are that close to each other in our views too. We are not world’s apart. I suspect he welcomes disagreement from people he considers his friends. Am I his friend? We shall see. While Ed appreciates my work very much (thanks so much Ed!) he recently answered two questions of mine and offered two basic criticisms of me. Let's start with the questions.

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How To Avoid Just Talking To Ourselves

It is inevitable that when people form a community they have a tendency to eventually forget why they formed that community in the first place. It depends on the type of community of course, but usually this is this case. So communities are in danger of becoming myopic and focused on themselves, their needs, and their issues. Being involved in a community demands that people in that community talk to one another about their community needs. They must talk about the issues of that community for they are relevant to the people in it. I have noticed this when it comes to some of the Freethought Bloggers, but other places as well.

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Christian Scholars Are Defending Me? Now I Know I'm Doomed! ;-)

In writing to Jeffrey Jay Lowder who is the co-editor and contributor to the best skeptical book so far on the resurrection of Jesus, Christian philosopher Victor Reppert used me as a contrast with the “so-called” New Atheists:

I think the New Atheists are doing things which are a fundamental betrayal of the basic rules which must underlie all discourse concerning matters so serious as religion. It affects people like John Loftus, who has some interesting ideas, but invariably ruins the possibility of serious discourse with him by propagandistic tactics. A kind of atheist fanaticism is brewing, which undermines the very process which makes atheist-theist dialogue at all rewarding. Link

David Marshall, a Christian apologist who has written several books defending his faith, said:

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How To Self-Destruct As a Movement

I write this as an attempt to open up a real dialogue among atheists with no axe to grind (as best as possible). It's about self-destructing as a movement. Is there any danger the atheist movement in general can self-destruct? No, not a chance. Over-all there is no danger for atheism as a whole since atheists have gained and are gaining too many victories. I think however that some atheist communities can do so, yes.

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A Response to Justin Griffith a Freethought Blogger

You can read our respectful exchange right here. My response follows:

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What is the Mission Statement of Freethought Blogs (FtB)?

Before reading any further this present post was prompted by responses to my post In Defense of DJ Grothe. I'm not picking a fight with the FtB but I would really like to know what the mission statement of the mammoth skeptical Freethought Blog is. What unites them? What is it? Most organizations have a mission statement. I think the FtB's should come together to produce one. I would really be interested beyond the fact that they are non-believers. I'm not talking about what they agree about, since they are united about non-belief and the need for diversity, but rather what their agendas are, their goals for being there. However, my guess is that if they produced one it would be so broad of a statement that it would end up being equivalent to something like this:

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In Defense of DJ Grothe

Greg Laden, a Freethought Blogger, is calling for the resignation of DJ Grothe who is the President of the James Randi Foundation (JREF) which hosts The Amazing Meeting (TAM) every year. A few other Freethought Bloggers have cooperatively written posts that criticize him. Do you ever wonder why several Freethought Bloggers write on the same topic from time to time? It's because they all share an email where they talk among themselves and ask other Bloggers to chime in. As far as I can tell, what provoked this debate was a post by Ashley Miller after the Women in Secularism Conference, where she wrote:

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The Freethought Festival Was Fantastic!

I just returned from this wonderful model of a freethought convention. The speakers were lined up by Chris Calvey who did a wonderful job of getting top-notch speakers in a wide diversity of topics. If you go to the "schedule" link they will be putting up audio and video of the talks. For now let me recommend Veronica Drantz's talk, "The Gender Binary & LGBTI People - Myth and Medical Malpractice." I wonder how effective her talk will be without the video, since she used a number of very helpful charts. I was aghast at how doctors have treated Intersex people. Richard Carrier's talk on "The Historicity of Jesus" was superb. If he documents his arguments extensively, as I know he will, then I can easily endorse his next book on the topic. It will advance the discussion, I guarantee it. Sean Faircloth is traveling around the country promoting a Ten Point Plan for Secularizing America, which I am excited about. It was good meeting Valerie Tarico, JB Eberhard, PZ Myers (who is coming out with a book titled, "The Happy Atheist"), and DJ Grothe, for starters, people I hadn't met before. Annie Laurie Gaylor sent personal greetings from Dan Barker who was in Pennsylvania this past weekend. She said to me that Dan had asked her to say hello to everyone, especially to Richard Carrier and me, which I thought was nice. While I wasn't a speaker I was interviewed on a radio program where I was asked what I thought of the Festival. When that is made available I'll link to it.

I got back and received the good news that Prometheus Books has accepted my proposal for a book on "The Outsider Test for Faith." Yep, I'm excited. Now to finish up the manuscript.

Ed Brayton, the Founder of Freethought Blogs, Comments

Ed wrote:

I’m really saddened by all this infighting, not because there is disagreement on how to approach these matters — such disagreement is inevitable, even healthy — but because it is becoming so personal and nasty. I think John has done and continues to do very important work; I would not have invited him to join FTB in the first place if that were not true. And I do understand his decision to leave FTB and do not harbor any ill will at all over it. I hope he continues to do the great work he’s always done at his own blog. But it is also clear to me that John is incredibly thin-skinned. Even civil disagreement, such as Natalie’s post, is called an “attack” by “mean-spirited” people who are out to get him. Natalie may well be wrong in her criticism — who among us has not been at times? — but that is easily responded to in an equally civil manner rather than with “Oh my god, they’re attacking me!”

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I Do Not Like Arguing With Atheists

That's right. I don't. Not one bit. I learn from other atheists, that's for damned sure. But given my focus and goals I dislike it to the extreme. For it wastes my time when I should be spending it arguing against evangelical Christians, and they visit me here. That's one of the reasons I have not argued against other atheists much at all. And that was one of the major reasons I left Freethought Blogs. There were just too many atheists and not enough Christians. I found myself arguing with the atheist commenters, some of whom showed no better critical thinking skills then the ignorant believers I have encountered here time and again. Atheists do not, on the whole, have much better critical thinking skills than the general populace. We don't see it until there is a disagreement, for until then it looks like we agree because we are good thinkers. They also didn't show me much respect, at least, that's what I felt. So it's better for me over here. I wish them all well, a few of whom I consider my friends. They can do their thing. I'll do my thing. But I learned something. I might argue against other atheists from time to time when I see ignorance. Hell, maybe I'll even permanently change the header to this blog to "Debunking Ignorance." How does it look to you? ;-) [Edit, I've changed it back.]

Why Must People Always Personally Attack Apostates?

It's typical of human nature to say nasty things about someone who leaves a church, ministry, or social grouping of any kind. "He wasn't one of us in the first place." "He has some big problems." People do this. When it happens we should expect it. Christians do it with former believers. Skeptics do it too. They do it with people who become believers again. They also do it when one leaves their social grouping. I left Freethought Blogs. Now the attacks have started even though up until recently I have not said anything negative about my experience there. If Natalie Reed's post is not indicative of the “mean-spirited” atheists at Freethought Blogs then what is, even if many of them are not like her at all.

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Some Atheists are Schmucks ;-)

Some of them remind me of Christians when disagreement arises. Enjoy.

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In Defense of Rebecca Watson

This is one of my posts when I was at Freethought Blogs.

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On Divisive Atheists and Some Freethought Bloggers

In February 2002, four years before his book The God Delusion was released in 2006, Richard Dawkins called atheists to arms in a TED talk. His talk wasn’t aired until April of 2007. He makes it clear he wants a campaign much like the gays used to gain acceptability in American society. His final sentence was, "let's all stop being so damned respectful."

At that point there was a split among atheists. A line was drawn in the sand. Although I admit that his approach has been very effective in getting people to take notice of atheists, at the same time I object to the demand that other atheists must adopt that same attitude or approach.

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There is No Atheist Community, No Atheist Movement

I want to briefly make the case that there is no atheist community. There are only atheist communities. There is likewise no atheist movement. There is only an atheist momentum. Atheists do not even share the same goals. Again, briefly, because my time is limited, here goes.

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What PZ Myers Fails to Understand

Up until recently I have not criticized other prominent atheists. I have tried to be accommodating so we could provide a unified front. But that has been shattered, especially with the feeding frenzy over the insensitive comments of Richard Dawkins to the concerns of women like Skepchick. Listen, I am a feminist to the core. It's one of the main reasons why I seek to rid our world of religion, especially Christianity, my niche. But since the united atheist front is gone I've decided to speak out against my own side when it seems one of them is not helping with this goal. I take no pleasure in this. But I must.

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Skeptics and the Question of Audience: Who Are We Writing To?

So far I have not been able to get the attention of many skeptics, including Richard Dawkins, and PZ Myers. Yes, I have tried, several times. Sure, they are very busy. But I just learned why I probably haven’t, which is what I had suspected. For the record I have purposely not criticized Richard Dawkins or the other New Atheists, either in my book or on this blog. In fact, I recently defended Dawkins and the other New Atheists, including Bill Maher for his movie Religulous, in a talk I did at the Society of Biblical Literature against a few scholars who thought their arguments lacked substance. You can read what I said here. I also defended Dawkins in a long series of email exchanges that took place last year between skeptic James Lazarus and me, which were copied to Jeffrey Lowder, Steve Hays, David Wood and some others. It got heated since I did not back down in my defense of Dawkins.

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