Quote of the Day by Stephen Hawking On God and the Big Bang

GearHedEd introduced this quote by saying: Hawking doesn't see God in imaginary time. He says so explicitly:

...if one knows the state of the universe in imaginary time, one can calculate the state of the universe in real time. One would still expect some sort of Big Bang singularity in real time. So real time would still have a beginning. But one wouldn't have to appeal to something outside the universe, to determine how the universe began. Instead, the way the universe started out at the Big Bang would be determined by the state of the universe in imaginary time. Thus, the universe would be a completely self-contained system. It would not be determined by anything outside the physical universe, that we observe. [Source requested in the comments].

How the Brain Tricks Us into Knowing about God

The payoff, of course, is that we don’t

When believers set out to defend the faith, they commonly find themselves entangled in Christianity’s multiple, messy contradictions. When backed into a corner, we may hear—with sighs of exasperation— “Well, how did all this get here? It didn’t just happen!” God-the-creator is the default, retreat defense. “Whew, that should settle it! Don’t be daft, you silly atheists, you’re talking nonsense to claim there isn’t a Great Engineer behind it all.”

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Question of the Day, by Gary M

What evidence do you have that Yahweh is the Creator God? -- Gary M

For important, even essential background reading on this question, see Dr. Jaco Gericke's chapter 5, "Can God Exist if Yahweh Doesn't", in The End of Christianity. The paperback is $4.29. There's no excuse for not getting it now! There is no objective evidence for a creator, much less for identifying Yahweh as the creator.

Believers ought to honestly re-examine what they falsely believe is evidence for creation by their sect-specific god. For instance, the god of the gaps reasoning is not evidence of anything, except that there is a gap in our understanding. Just because scientists discover a mystery in the natural world doesn't mean believers get to substitute a bigger mystery, a non-natural spiritual one without objective evidence for it--their own sect-specific god. Never forget it was science that discovered these mysteries, not religion, and that science is the only path to travel if we hope to solve them. Science, not religion, has had an overwhelming track record, one that allows me to say it's the only way to know the nature of nature, its workings and its origins.

Also important, even essential background reading on Gary M's question--the best of the best on the topic of prayer--is Dr. Valerie Tarico's chapter 14, "If Prayer Fails, Why Do People Keep At It?" in Christianity in the Light of Science: Critically Examining the World's Largest Religion. There is no objective evidence for answered petitionary prayers, much less for identifying Yahweh as the deity who answers the prayers of all the believers in the world.

Since there's no objective evidence for answered prayers, as Tarico shows, why would anyone claim there's evidence that Yahweh created the universe (or any deity for that matter)? Wouldn't objective evidence for answered prayers be available if there's a god who expects us to believe s/he created the universe? If there's a god who doesn't provide objective evidence for answered prayers, which can be scientifically tested in real time a multiple number of times, how can s/he expect us to believe s/he created the universe without this present-day objective evidence? Why are we expected to believe in creation as a unique event in the far far distant past, one that science doesn't have much access to and might not be able verify due to it's very nature, without any objective evidence for answered prayers?

Makes sense of an omniscient god right? This makes the guy who shot himself in the foot out to be a smart person! The centuries old news is that an omniscient prayer-answering creator god does not exist. Neither does Yahweh. Never did.

Trust No One When Wanting To Know The Truth, Not Even God!

In the comments Jason wrote:

Trusting what Mr. Loftus has to say about God and Christianity is like trusting that a harlot will remain faithful and true to you, only your odds are slightly better with the harlot.

Hi Jason, you need not trust anything I say, really. Just honestly think through and investigate what I say for yourself. If you disagree, then okay. But trust has noting to do with honestly thinking through and investigating the truth of your faith. Trust isn't something YOU should do either! You shouldn't trust your parents who raised you to believe, nor your preacher who was raised by his parents to believe, nor anyone else who was raised to believe by their parents. Parents are notoriously wrong about religion! In fact, no one should be trusted to know the truth about the nature and workings of the universe, along with which religion is true, if there is one. No guru, prophet, witch-doctor, shaman, faith-healer, Sunday school teacher, religious professor or secular professor. We shouldn't even trust what Richard Dawkins or Jerry Coyne tells us about the evidence for evolution. That's because it's the evidence that convinces, not the personalities behind it. [We can say we trust the consensus of scientists working in an area of study, since that's the highest level of confidence we can attain, or peer-reviewed papers, insofar as they show awareness of the current literature and evidence available].

Instead, you must honestly think through the important questions on you own. Investigate the truth as if you were never raised to believe. The very fact you think it's about trust rather than an honest investigation of the truth tells us you're not doing what's needed to know the truth.

Now I'm continually reminded that faith is trust, trust in some god or another. This is wrong-headed. The reason is because the god trusted is already the god believed to exist. Faith or trust in one's own god results in the same god as initially believed. So honest believers who are genuinely interested in knowing the truth shouldn't even trust their own god! You should literally and categorically trust NO ONE when honestly thinking through and investigating the nature and workings of the universe, along with which religion is true, if there is one. To read a rigorous defense of this kind of thinking check out this book. - Cheers

The Delicate, Dicey Task of Revising Revelation

Theologians boldly rise to the occasion

What to do when God has favored you with new revelation? I don’t mean just a casual vision or two—but with a Cosmos-shattering revelation update: You have been given the word that God has revised a whole salvation scheme. How do you mesh this new scheme with the old system in place for centuries? We see the apostle Paul wrestling with this very task in chapter 4 of his Letter to the Romans.

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All sophisticated theology is obfuscationist theology

All sophisticated theology is obfuscationist theology, the goal of which is to obscure the unreasonableness of theology itself. Now imagine some atheist philosopher of religion thinking there is more merit to sophisticated theology over a hillbilly from Kentucky, and you see the problem with almost all atheist philosophy of religion.

Quote of the Day by Shay Chandler (On Facebook)

Shay Chandler:

Why do some religious people take it personally when I say I'm an atheist? It's not like their God is the only God I don't believe in. I don't believe in any of them.

I've long ago concluded the word "God" (capital "G") is a name for a specific god, the god of Christianity. That is to say, when someone in the western world writes or says the word "God" without qualification (as opposed to "my god," or "a god" or "the Jewish god", etc,) that person is referring to Christianity's god. This is due to the Christianized cultural dominance of the word "God" as a divine conceptual being. So no, "God" is not Allah, nor is "god" "God" at all. They're all "gods"; culturally conceptual deities. In fact, the word "God" in these here parts is a loosely sect-specific parochial Christian deity encompassing the incompatible characteristics believed by different Christianities. Period.

Matthew W. Ferguson to Join Us

Matthew W. Ferguson is a Ph.D. graduate student in Classics at the University of California, Irvine. He'll write for us here at DC for at least one planned post having to do with David Marshall's recent book Jesus is No Myth. Given the blurbs written for it by Craig Blomberg and Timothy McGrew, it looks like David Marshall is here to stay. I look forward to what Ferguson has to say.

Recently Ferguson opened up his life to us right here. At the end he wrote some encouraging and instructive words about living life in the shadow of death:

Life flies by quickly, and we never know when our last day will be. As someone who believes that our conscious experience is finite, it reminds me to make the most out of every moment. My life in this physical world is the only one that I will ever have, and I plan to cherish it to the fullest. I wish the same for all others who live with kindness and empathy.

What to do…with the brains evolution gave us

Religion wins if we can’t teach our brains Good Thinking

In the musical My Fair Lady, lyricist Alan Jay Lerner punctured misogyny by showing it in full foolishness. Professor Henry Higgins is the ultimate “confirmed old bachelor” who is distressed by his attraction to Eliza Doolittle. He bluntly warns his friend Colonel Pickering, “I will never let a woman in my life.” Female heads, he declares, are “filled with cotton, hay and rags.” “Straightening up their hair is all they ever do. Why don’t they straighten up the mess that’s inside?”

But Professor Higgins was only half wrong. That is, all human brains, male and female, are prone to the cotton-hay-and-rags syndrome. Throughout the millennia, humans have been wrong about so much, and—sorry, Professor Higgins—men have been the major culprits. We can blame the men especially for the monotheism represented in the Bible—a major mess of contradictions, if ever there was one. But the fault lies not with gender, but with the brains that we owe to the clumsy evolutionary process. We have to work hard to outsmart our brains.

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Faith-Based Puzzle Solving Vs Examining Evidence Objectively

I have to admit it, of all the Christian visitors here at DC, Don Camp has been one of the best. He's polite and has more knowledge than most others who have commented here. And he's indefatigable. I had to limit him to ten comments a day lest he hijack my blog, for no other reason than that I cannot engage him as often as he requires. Did I say he's indefatigable? I challenged him to read my magnum opus, and he's doing just that, skipping some chapters and reading others thoroughly. He's also patiently taking the time to write responses to what I wrote on his blog.

I cannot shake him folks. Yet he's just as delusional as others who are not as knowledgeable or indefatigable or polite. One might ask why I'm highlighting him here, since it grants him more credibility that he deserves. So let me tell you why. I don't know. ;-) Maybe it's because he's likeable. Maybe it's because he can help make my case stronger, especially by articulating it better. Maybe it's because he might be reachable. Maybe it's because atheists who comment here might help him see the truth. Maybe he can be used as a test case in how apologists special plead their case when defending the indefensible. How about ALL OF THE ABOVE!

Camp recently wrote two posts on Moses and the Exodus that are instructive. Here is my best response. It probably won't work, but here goes anyway.

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Quote of the Day by GearHedEd On Apologetics

Apologetics is damage control applied to an incoherent myth, designed to try and explain difficulties away. It's like trying to compress a balloon between your hands. Every time you think you've squeezed it down, it pops out in another direction, and you can't cover all the bases simultaneously.

News Flash: All 240 Family Christian Stores Are Closing!

There is quite a bit of controversy about this decision too.

See for yourselves.

"No, the Crazies Aren’t Coming Out from Under Rocks" by Robert Conner

This is an interesting read, written by Robert Conner. His final words:

No, the crazies aren’t coming out from under the rocks—they’re coming out of the churches and mosques, synagogues and temples, just like they have for the past couple of thousand years, and they’re bringing their crazy with them, a heaping platter of crazy with a steaming side order of crazy.

If I had to make a wager, I’d bet the inaptly named Homo sapiens is a dead man walking. LINK.

Paul the Apostle and the Hogwarts Factor

For Paul, sin was a disease of the soul...he was sure he knew the cure

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Why Do Atheists Bother?

Joelyn:

Part of the problem with Evangelical religious beliefs is that some want to make parts of it public policy (e.g., eliminate marriage equality, reproductive rights, etc.)

Frankly, I couldn't care less about any one's religious delusion as long as they are law abiding, do no harm to minors (deny health care based on faith healing) and don't want to impose via public policies their religious strictures on my personal life. So as long Christian apologists enter the public square chewing on their religious delusions, I'll be right there chewing back. Why not? If they can compete in the marketplace of ideas, that's their problem not mine. Cheers!

Wayne Thompson:

Well said! It’s not simply because they knock on our doors with an invitation to church. They vote (which is their right as much as ours, of course). But, they also have PACs which pressure elected officials to get their religious-based agendas through Congress, even though the churches are not taxed like the rest of us.

When millions of delusional people think that an imaginary superman in the sky is in charge of everything, how can they be expected to take issues like Climate Change seriously or even try to understand it? After all, Climate Change wasn’t mentioned in their Bronze Age instructional manual, so why should they believe it? The Evangelical vote was largely responsible for why the world is now having to deal with a President Trump. These are the kinds of outcomes you get when people don’t base their beliefs upon evidence and use reason in making their decisions.

Don Camp (a Christian):

So, what has that to do with you?

I honestly don't get the new atheists' anger. So you don't believe. Okay. So you don't like people knocking on your door with an invitation to church. Say no thank you politely. What's the big deal?

Herald Newman:

It has everything to do with [us]. Delusioned people, who believe nonsense, are making the world a worse place because of that nonsense! I have every right to fight nonsense when it spills over into my life!

Found here. Enjoy.

Should We Trust NT Testimony That Jesus Arose from the Dead?

Here's a Christian named Angie on Facebook about testimonial evidence of the resurrection of Jesus:

Angie: "One method of determining good evidence is the testimony of others. Courts use testimony all the time and consider it in making decisions. We have the testimony of several hundred people who saw Jesus after his death and burial. This must be considered in believing or denying this event. One day there might be an explanation of this, but not yet."

My response:" Would you and others keep your facts straight? We don't have evidence 500 people saw the resurrected Jesus. What we have is someone SAYING 500 people saw the resurrected Jesus."

----------------

Angie: "What's so preposterous about one's testimony? Used all the time in court as respectable evidence."

My answer: "We have no way to cross-examine this testimony. How do we know the results would not be exactly as we found out with Joseph Smith and Mormonism? You're asking us to accept non-cross examined testimony from a couple of different writers in the ancient distant past, and that's not reasonable for extraordinary miraculous claims."

Was Hitchens right: Does religion poison everything?

No. But it does far more harm than good

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Dr. Richard Carrier On Why You Can’t Cite Opinions On Whether Josephus Mentioned Jesus Before 2014

Carrier presents the latest interesting scholarly findings right here.

Unplugging the Robo-Craig 5000

One rainy afternoon, Johnny ventured to explore the attic and came across a dusty old bin buried under a mound of discarded boxes. Flashlight in hand, he managed to open the box, discovering a garbled collection of old toys, his father’s childhood companions.

“Daddy, daddy,” Johnny cried, awkwardly making his way down the attic ladder, one toy in hand, “What is this?”

“Why that’s my old Robo-Craig 5000, Johnny. Let’s plug him in and see what happens.”

His father took the toy figure from Johnny’s hand, attempted to dust it off, and plugged in the worn extension cord protruding from his back.

“Jesus under fire! Jesus under fire!” exclaimed Robo-Craig. “Position more radical than Borg!” “Lüdemann, Crossan, Lüdemann . Borg. Borg. Borr rr…” Robo-Craig sputtered to a halt.

“What’s he saying, father?”

“Those were some of his old play-friends, Johnny.”

Johnny shrugged. Disinterested, the boy sped off to program a science brainPop mod on his Android device.

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Don Camp Knows His Indoctrinating Catechism Fairly Well. Now He Should Think Through It!

Don Camp has roosted here at DC for some time now. I wonder what his motivation is. I hope he's here to test his faith against the evidence, but of that I can't say. He's a former teacher/professor of literature classes and his comments are respectful and polite. His arguments are always a brand of special pleading though, which he cannot see. What he's doing is spitting out the catechism he was taught at an early age, by mindlessly quote-mining from the Bible and/or the catechism theology built on it. He knows his catechism well even if he has never thought through it. Let's see if an atheist can make him think about it. Take a good look at what he said:

In the end, it is not what you believe that is crucial but who you believe. A person may believe all the doctrine he is taught as a kid in a Christian home and still not be a believer because he is not trusting in the person or the mercy of God.

Surely you have heard this said before. I said it. Every ex-Christian has probably said it. So Camp tells us nothing we haven't considered before. Nothing. Yet he may think it's profound. It's not profound at all. It's a mess of words intended to confuse truly inquiring minds and obfuscate (or hide) the truth from minds like Camp himself--who mindlessly wrote them!

Where do Camp's words come from? Is Camp plagiarizing someone else? No. Yet the exact words he used above are not found in the Bible either. In fact, there isn't a quote that comes close to saying this, nor is this the only thing we find stressed in the New Testament. Oh sure, belief is stressed, but so are two other things. First, in the epistles we find that if anyone teaches false doctrine or believes it, they are doomed to hell. Christians derive their doctrines from the gospels, just as surely as they do the epistles. So doctrine is stressed. Second, in the gospels obedience is stressed by Jesus. In the epistles obedience is stressed too. Paul demands it as an apostle.

So once again, where did Camp get these words? Well, I'm here to tell you it's in the catechisms we all grew up on when being indoctrinated by our parents in Sunday School, and catechism classes. Other than that I don't know where they originated from. Surely not from Augustine, Aquinas, Calvin, Luther or Zwingli. Do they make sense? No.

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"John, which one of your books would you recommend for me to read?

I was asked this question by a Christian who comments here at DC. I replied as follows:

It depends on your interest, and/or ignorance, so take a look at my book descriptions and see for yourself.

My challenge to you is to pick one, any one, and read through it. If you come to a book that does not tell you something significant you haven't considered before, then stop reading my books. But if each successive book does tell you something significant you haven't considered before, keep reading them until you're done with them all. If cost is a factor then get them at your local library.

Even if you should choose to read my co-written book, "God or Godless," because you want a Christian apologist to help you think through the issues, that won't help you! As Led Zeppelin sang, when the levee breaks "crying won't help you; praying won't do you no good." ;-)

You have no more excuses.

Be well.

Mythbusters Shows Why There's No Contest Between Science and Faith. Science Always Wins!

Those of us who were fans of the program Mythbusters, hosted by Adam Savage and Jamie Hyneman, were taught over the course of thirteen years how to think like scientists. In the episode below you'll see how they tested and debunked the moon hoax, the one that claims we never landed on the moon. After the mythbusters finished their tests anyone who continues believing there was a governmental conspiracy to fake a moon landing are nuts. Yep. Nuts. And they even say these people are nuts. That's N-U-T-S!

The same kind of scientific testing can be done to test the claims of Christianity. And the results are the same as the moon hoax theory. Anyone who continues to believe in Christianity despite the overwhelming scientific evidence that debunks it, is nuts too! The only excuse is that most believers are ignorant about this evidence. Be ignorant no more! Try reading just one book about this evidence, if you dare. Take seriously what Donald R. Burleson said when reviewing my recent anthology Christianity in the Light of Science for The American Rationalist.



Burleson talked about each of the chapters in it then concluded by saying:

All in all, this volume is a worthy collection of essays to the effect that science interacts with considerable violence against the claims of the Christian religion and, by extension of some of the arguments, against religion more generally...I would rate this book as a must-read for anyone interested in the matter of religion versus science. After all, it is a fundamental schism in human experience. As Bertrand Russell used to say (I paraphrase): In science there is knowledge, but in religion there is only opinion.

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Michael Nugent to Debate William Lane Craig

Michael Nugent is a writer from Dublin, Ireland, and chairperson of the advocacy group Atheist Ireland. He will debate William Lane Craig on March 21st. I've heard him talk and read some of the things he has written and think he'll do well in this debate. Kudos to him! We'll be watching.

Now I'm interested more than ever in the criteria Dr. Craig looks for in a debate opponent. I guess I still don't meet them. Oh, well!

How One Atheist Group is Using My Books

Aaron Lietz and Jason Blair recently contacted me on behalf of the San Diego Coalition of Reason (which is under the United Coalition of Reason). They had a unique request concerning my anthology, The Christian Delusion. They contacted me with it, via email:

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Is the Church really filled with hypocrites? No.

But the apostle Paul noticed a few…

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Still Another Testimony On "Why I'm an Atheist"

Here is a link to an intelligent philosophically minded person's story of why s/he's an atheist. See if any of these reasons resonate with you. The site is named, Atheism And The City: Exploring Philosophy, Religion & Atheism In The Context Of Contemporary Urban Life.

My Interview On the Phil Ferguson Show About My Book "Unapologetic"

Here's an interview on my latest book Unapologetic which I hope you learn from. There's a lot of misunderstanding about it. Phil Ferguson gets it! I don't mind the disagreement. What bothers me is the mischaracterization of it by philosophy of religion students who have a vested interest in disagreeing with it. Help correct the misunderstanding by sharing this if it interests you. Later this year the Free Inquiry magazine will include a major article by me based on it.

Biblical Scholars Denounce Trump's Executive Order

Alan Kurdi, a child in a refugee family, died on September 2, 2015

The Society of Biblical Literature is the largest organization of academic biblical scholars in the world. It consists of many “units” that address specific topics within biblical studies.  Many of those units have drafted statements opposed to President Donald J.Trump’s Executive Order of January 27. However, some of those units still use the Bible (with actual "prooftexts") as an authority to justify their opposition.  

Our group of biblical scholars, called the Metacriticism of Biblical Scholarship unit, is devoted to a secular approach to the study of Bible, and so we decided to draft a statement that specifically disavows the use of the Bible as an authority to endorse or oppose any government policy.  We focus on humanitarian and legal arguments. Below is our statement.

The Metacriticism of Biblical Scholarship unit in the Society of Biblical Literature expresses its opposition to the Executive Order issued by President Donald J. Trump on January 27, 2017 that immediately suspends entry of citizens of Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen into the United States.

We recognize that the Bible bears contradictory views about immigrants, and we do not utilize the Bible as an authority to set any government policy or to oppose any government policy.

Our opposition is firstly based on the detrimental effect that such an order has on the welfare of victims of oppression and violence that will now be trapped within the listed countries. The Order, in effect, is a death sentence for thousands of men, women, and children of many religious backgrounds who are trying to flee violence.

As members of a community of scholars, we also are concerned that the Executive Order adversely affects the ability of scholars from the listed countries to interact with those in the United States. Such interactions are a key component of expanding knowledge and building relationships across the globe.

The Executive Order, along with many related statements made by Mr. Trump, suggest that the basis for this action is partly based on religious discrimination. He declared his intent to ban all Muslims in December of 2015, and he has since stated that he wants priority given to Christian refugees, who are not the majority of those experiencing violence in the listed countries. 

Identifying a religious preference for entry, or for the denial of entry, into the United States is neither consistent with our Constitutional principles nor with the general principles of equality.

We, therefore, denounce in the strongest possible terms the premises and consequences that this Executive Order will have for our fellow human beings and for the entire academic enterprise that is global in scope.

Hector Avalos (Co-Chair), Iowa State University
Rebecca Raphael (Co-Chair), Texas State University
Krista Dalton, Columbia University
André Gagné, Concordia University (Montreal, Canada)
Ed Silver, Wellesley College
Stephen Young, Appalachian State University

Resurrection and Reception Now in Nice Softcover!

Delighted to announce that Resurrection and Reception in Early Christianity is now available in nice, affordable softcover for pre-order ($46) at Routledge Books! [also available on Amazon]. This book demonstrates that the resurrection tales in the New Testament were originally written and read as fictional, i.e., as non-historical narrative embellishments meant to exalt the significance of the founder of the earliest Christian movement(s), thus effectively dismantling the linchpin claim of modern Christian ideology.

"Early Christianity emerged in a world of intense interaction among the devotees of different cults and religions. Narratives, images, ritual practices, and ideas continually crossed the boundaries of religious groups. With the interdependence of ancient religions as his starting point, Richard Miller shows the close relation of the early narratives of Jesus’ resurrection with pre-existing pagan and Jewish narratives of divine translation. This study makes a significant contribution to the study of Early Christianity and the religious trends of the Roman Empire." ―Angelos Chaniotis, Professor of Ancient History, Institute for Advanced Study, Princeton, NJ, USA

"Richard Miller's reading of ancient Greco-Roman narratives concerning the disappearance of heroes and demi-gods successfully challenges the traditional reconstructions of the formation of resurrection accounts in the Gospels. Miller moves with theoretical sophistication through an impressive array of ancient texts and shows how early Christian stories about Jesus were developed in the context of literary imitation and emulation that characterized the Mediterranean world in antiquity."―Giovanni Bazzana, Harvard Divinity School, USA

"This is a ground-breaking study of the literary antecedents for the resurrection stories in the Gospels, with wide-ranging implications for Christian history and theology. Never again can the resurrection stories be read and interpreted apart from their ancient literary context." ―Dennis Smith, Phillips Theological Seminary, USA

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The 2017 Debunking Christianity Challenge

In the past few years I've proposed twelve reasonably priced college level books for Christians to read, one per month for the year. My challenge is for Christians to read our books and test their faith. As I've argued, most believers do not seriously question their faith. Christian, do you want to be different than almost all other believers? Do you want to do what only a rare number of them will do? Then take the 2017 DC Challenge. Hey, what do you have to lose? If our books cause you to become stronger in your faith that's good, right? But if your faith cannot survive we've done you a favor, that is, if you're really interested in the truth.

The fact that Christians won't do so is because their culturally indoctrinated and/or brainwashed brain has convinced them that their search for truth ended sometime before they ever became adults. So they won't read our books because they don't want to know if their faith is false. That's right, they don't want to know the truth. That's the number one indicator one's faith is false, or perhaps rather, that deep inside them believers fear it's false. Mormons, Muslims, Orthodox Jews and others would react exactly the same way. They don't want to know if their childhood faiths are false either. In any case, no more soundbites. No more reading one blog post at a time. Sit down for yourselves and read through whole books written by atheists who were former believers.

I've had 9 books published in 8 years (effectively 10 books with the revision of my magnum opus WIBA). You'll have to forgive me if I cannot resist the supposition that my books are among the best. Wouldn't you? Especially when they receive such high praise as my magnum opus has. Every one of my books is unique, doing what few other atheist books have done, if any of them. To understand what I mean consider this. While all my books were listed in previous DC Challenges I'll not list them this time. I'll list others instead. I'll start my list with this month (since I'm late this year). Keep in mind my recommendations are only as good as my knowledge of the available books goes.

Here then without adieu are the 12 books for the 2017 DC Challenge:

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