Was Jesus Born in Bethlehem?

[Written by John W. Loftus] Let's take a look at a few details in the Gospels with regard to the birth of Jesus.

Toby Keith's Remedy For the War on Christmas...Bah, Humbug to Him!

He's a great song writer, but come on now...such ignorance knows no bounds:

The Five Most Asinine Christian Arguments I've Seen

[Written by John W. Loftus] Although there are so many to chose from let me highlight five of the most asinine types of Christian arguments I’ve seen:

1) "You were never Christians."

This comes from Calvinists who think only real Christians will persevere and be in heaven. We've addressed this till the cows come home. Just look at our responses in our FAQ sheet. See especially my particular response. The problem with this claim is that the ones making it cannot do so based on what they believe. For all they know we really were/are Christians, saved in Jesus with our names written in the Lamb's book of life. It's just that right now we're backsliding. They have no idea whether or not we'll return to the fold before we die. But the bottom line is that we did in fact believe the gospel just as Christians now do. God never kept his promise to save us even though we believed.

2) "I know God in Christ exists because I've experienced him in my life."

The whole problem with using this repeatedly as an argument is that it does nothing to change the mind of a person who doesn't have such a religious experience. It's one thing to believe because of a religious experience, which can be had by people who have different and even contradictory ideas as a result of the same experience. But it's another thing entirely to argue that because you had such an experience I should believe. This is not only asinine, it's very annoying. You can believe because of whatever experiences you have had. But when you attempt to engage people who claim not to have had these experiences (or that they were not veridical) you must meet us on common ground. You must argue on behalf of what you believe with reason. When it comes to these religious experiences you must argue that yours are veridical and that others who claim them are not. This means you must provide a philosophical argument, not antecdotal evidence.

3) “You don’t understand what true Christianity is all about.”

People making this claim think we’ve chosen an easy target when we debunk evangelical Christianity, and that Christianity is much different than that. Some of the most ignorant ones making this claim think that if we only understood true Christanity we would become believers (lol). I’ve seen this argued by existentialists, liberals, Catholics and other believers normally thought of as part of a "cult" by mainstream Christians.

Here is my usual response to these believers. Christianity is “a many splendored thing.” Like a chameleon it changes with the times and adapts to specific geographical locations (how evolutionary of it!). How can we debunk something that has these moving goals posts? We can't. So, we’ve chosen to debunk conservative, evangelical, or “Biblical” Christianity. It has the most obnoxious presence in politics and on the web. One former team member put is this way:

Not only is fundamentalist Christianity the greatest threat in the United States to science, tolerance, and social progress, but it is also the most prevalent form of Protestant Christianity to be found in our nation, whether you like it or not. It is the fundamentalist religious right that holds the reigns of the Republican party (which currently controls the nation, in case you didn't realize), and it is this same fundamentalist religious right that lobbies for the teaching of lies in public school and fights against funding for embryonic research that could potentially save the lives of millions.

Whether you like it or not, it is this flavor of Christianity that makes the loudest, most obnoxious, most dangerous impact on the world today, giving us plenty of good reason to direct the brunt of our attacks in its vicinity.

If you’re a liberal, existential or Catholic believer then we just might share some of the same criticisms of that which we take aim at, so join us in this goal, just like James McGrath does from time to time. Otherwise, start a Blog titled “True Christianity,” and invite all professing Christians there to hammer out your differences. If you can come to a consensus then come back here and we’ll debunk that consensus (lol). But don’t be so ignorant as to do that here. We know the differences. We just target a specific kind of Christianity because that’s the only way to be effective in debunking any of them. And don’t kid yourself, either. There are some aspects to our debunking that debunk all religions and all Christianities. Many of the beliefs we debunk are affirmed in the Apostles, Nicene and Athanasian creeds. So to you I say, if the shoe fits, wear it; if not, then don’t.

4) “Quoting Bible Passage X shows that we are wrong.”

These people I call the “Bible Thumpers." They are responding to our arguments with the very evidence we are questioning. A believer simply cannot reasonably respond to an argument that the Bible is unreliable by quoting from the Bible. If you don’t accept what I say about this then listen to Christian professor Dr. Dan Lambert, who told his students how to respond to the arguments in my book in these words: "You cannot use the Bible to try to refute his points or to support your own. You must use logic and critical thinking primarily." Here's the Link

5) For the most asinine Christian argument I've probably ever heard, here's a link.

Okay? Do you understand?

[First posted 6/16/09]

Richard Dawkins Debunks Noah's Ark

Victor Reppert is Feeling the Heat of the Outsider Test for Faith

Yep, just look at the title to his latest post: If I had been born in Saudi Arabia, would I have been a Muslim? Hell, no! "Hell No"? Hmmm. That's an expletive! To quote Shakespeare, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." A reasonable person would simply say "I don't think so," although that wouldn't be reasonable either. See Brenda's comment below, which is a perfect response:

Consider This, God is the Ultimate Troll ;-)

If he speaks like one and acts like one then he is one! ;-) Link.

Thanks Again My Friends!

I just want to offer a shout out to the skeptics here who help in answering the personal attacks on me and the arguments of some utterly ignorant Christians. It means a lot to me, really. What buffoons some of them are. I have no clue what they hope to accomplish but they certainly view me as a threat, and of that they are right. It's just that I'm reading what they write and it's completely ignorant for the most part. I would've said that as a Christian professor when I was teaching apologetics. It's a shame that with a Bible in hand they think they can answer us, isn't it? They are unaware how ignorant they are. Is there anyone else out there who can reason with us? Oops, sorry, they're all ignorant.

Most Christians are Brainwashed or Indoctrinated to Believe, Here's Proof:

This Week In Holy Crimes

What business do religious leaders have in telling us what to believe or do? Sheesh.

Joseph Lewis on the 10th Commandment

I've written before about Joseph Lewis who was a pioneering American freethinker. Read this except from his monumental 644 page book The Ten Commandments concerning the 10th one, where he writes:

This Commandment was never intended to prevent envying another's possessions, but rather to avoid the evil consequences of "coveting" in the magical sense. Coveting was not mentioned as an undesirable trait to be avoided because it is unethical, immoral or antisocial; it was recorded and made part of the Decalogue because the superstition prevailed in Hebrew tribal society that envious thoughts would bring ill luck and misfortune, through sorcery and witchcraft, to the person against whose property the "coveting" was directed. Covetous desires, they believed, would call into existence the malevolent spirits of the "evil eye," which by devious and diabolical methods would cause the loss of the coveted possessions. Link.

The Positivist Canard

Christian apologists keep crowing on about their criticisms of positivism as if that ends the matter. What best describes positivism:

Positivism refers to a set of epistemological perspectives and philosophies of science which hold that the scientific method is the best approach to uncovering the processes by which both physical and human events occur.Link

There is something to positivism these apologists have overlooked. We cannot offer a logical DEDUCTIVE proof that science is the only game in town. To criticize positivism as if it did is to knock down a straw man. Yes, the positivists did make sweeping statements so they fell prey to some criticisms. But what we really want to say is that it's very probable science is the only game in town. That cannot be refuted. And that is all we need to say. If they want to continue hanging their hats on what is "possible" time and again, have at it. That's the definition of faith. We will keep insisting on that which is probable not that which is possible.

Christian Apologists Must Denigrate Science and Scientists Themselves

That's right. I've said this before. Anything apologists can do to denigrate science is what they'll do to defend their faith. That's why there is the science vs religion debate in the first place. That's why creative science had to fight an uphill battle against church censure and threats of violence. Case in point is Victor Reppert in disputing the results of the social sciences which have confirmed several biases we have as human beings, especially cognitive bias [<---READ THE LINK!] which has conclusively shown us we believe what we prefer to believe and when faced with contrary evidence we actually dig our feet in deeper into what we believe, depending on our vested interests. Now why does he feel the need to dispute these findings without offering any counter-evidence? It's because he has faith, that's why. Faith can be used to trump almost any evidence and if not, then just denigrate science--or scientists themselves. Hey, don't believe me? Then read what he said:

Gallup Poll: Four in 10 Americans Believe in Strict Creationism

...and yet there is hope. The percentage of people who don't think a god was involved in evolution is climbing. Link

Are Christian Apologists Liars, Ignorant, or Blind?

Keep in mind I'm talking here about credentialed Christian apologists and not the myriad numbers of hacks out there, some of which are liars for Jesus and certainly ignorant. My informed judgment of credentialed apologists, having been one of them, is what follows. If they are lying to defend their faith they are lying to themselves. This is not impossible to conceive given cognitive dissonance theory which predicts that when presented with falsifying evidence believers will deny it depending on how much vested they have in their belief. And they are certainly ignorant about many things, sometimes willfully ignorant. But none of this is done on a conscious level and for that reason they are not conscious of the lies or their ignorance. After all, only the ignorant are ignorant of their ignorance.

And yet I have known many Christian apologists who are clearly informed about many things. They face our arguments head on, or so it seems to them. Take for example Dr. Victor Reppert. In the following few sentences I don't think I've ever run across such a short yet adequate summation for the case for faith in the resurrection of Jesus:

Dr. James McGrath: "The War on Christmas"

So to those in the English-speaking world who consider themselves Christians, my recommendation is this: stop complaining about the "de-Christianization" of a holiday that we ourselves stole (sorry, borrowed) from others and successfully hijacked for more than a thousand years. Link.

Quote of the Day, by Dr. John Shook

"If God exists, then all is permitted." Link

My Oh My, Didn't Pre-Scientific People Believe in Some Strange Beings:

Biblical Beings- Angels, Cherubim, Seraphim, Tetramorph, and others..

Serpents & Dragons- Dragons, Amphiptere, Amphisbaena, Basilisk, Chimera, Cockatrice, Hydra, Gorgon, Wyvern (also Lindworm), and others...

Part-Human Creatures- Centaur, Harpies, Ipotane, Lamia, Manticore (and Catoblepas and Leucrocuta), Moon-Woman, Satyr, Sphinx, and others...

Winged Beasts- Caladrius, Gansas, Griffin, Goose Tree, Hippogriff, Martlet (and Bird of Paradise), Opinicus, Pegasus, Peryton, Phoenix, Roc, and others...

Land Beasts- Bonnacon, Bunyip, Cerberus, Gulon, Ibex, Lamb Tree, Mantygre, Mermecolion, Musimon, Salamander, Su Unicorn, Yale, Yppotryll, and others...

Sea Creatures- Devil Whale, Kraken, Nereid, Mermaid, Scylla, Siren, Sea Bishop, Sea Monk, Sea Horse, Sea Lion, Sea Serpent, Siren, and others...

Link

The Evolution of Hell

Religion in all of it's aspects has evolved over the centuries. So have notions about god, religious morality and hell.

Dr. Keith Parsons: What Really Happened on Easter Morning?

As I have argued elsewhere (see my essay in The Empty Tomb), I do not think that we have enough information to establish ANY account about what really happened during "Easter Week." If I had to conjecture, I would imagine a scenario (and a scenario is all we can have) something like this: Click here for more.

David Eller's New Book "Cruel Creeds, Virtuous Violence" Reviewed

Jack David Eller's new book, Cruel Creeds, Virtuous Violence: Religious Violence Across Culture and History has been reviewed by the Library Journal:

Taking on a highly volatile subject with admirable objectivity, Eller (anthropology, Community Coll. of Denver; Cultural Anthropology: Global Forces, Local Lives ) has written a thorough academic study of religious violence from an anthropological and sociological perspective. Drawing extensively on examples from the history of various religions around the world, he covers the full range of religious violence, going well beyond the current hot topics of war and terrorism to include sacrifice, self-injury, persecution, and ethno-religious conflict. He even devotes a chapter to nonviolence and religion. Overall, his argument is highly nuanced and avoids any temptation to oversimplify the complexities of human violence and its relationship to religion. VERDICT Eller makes a commendable effort to avoid taking sides or focusing too heavily on one particular religious tradition. Those seeking either a spirited defense of religion or a ruthless attack on it should look elsewhere. This book is ideal for those studying or teaching anthropology, sociology, and religion and looking for a scholarly and objective overview of a complicated subject. Brian T. Sullivan, Alfred Univ. Lib., NY.

John's Top Ten List of How to Deal With "The Christian Delusion" Book

My anthology The Christian Delusion has been out for awhile. Based upon the Christian responses I've seen on Amazon and other blogs, here are the top ten ways to deal with it:

It's Possible to Change Minds Against the Overwhelming Odds

Pardon me here. I'm not bragging. I'm just astounded that what I do is making a difference against the overwhelming odds, as I wrote about earlier. It's encouraging to me personally. Here are three such stories:

Well, I am (was) a five-point Calvinist, Reformed Baptist type, who recently lost my faith thanks to the two books by John Loftus (see? I didn't make it very far into the challenge). Losing your faith hurts a lot, and frankly, has made me angry because it feels like something very precious has been taken away from you. Then you think about it more, and it makes you even angrier and ashamed to be deceived into believing something so totally false and unworthy of the time and talents wasted on it. Then after some time, anger leads to depression. But I see a bright, glorious light at the end of the tunnel, and as far as I can see, it is not an oncoming train like the theists assured me I needed to fear. So, thank you, Mr. John Loftus. It's hurt like hell, but so far it's all been worth it! Link

The Free Will Fumble: Why Christians Treat it Just Like They do With Unanswered Prayer

Christians have developed so many ways to escape the force of the evidence that it’s frustrating to those of us who are trying to reason with them. I’ve written about several of them before. There is the big one I call The Omniscience Escape Clause. Another one I haven’t quite developed yet I call The Faith Trump Card, which is leaping beyond the actual probabilities of the evidence itself. No reasonable person can leap beyond what the evidence calls for. If Christians conclude it’s 51% probable Jesus arose from the dead then they simply cannot conclude they know he did. That’s an unjustified leap. If I thought it’s 51% probable the Colts will play in the Super Bowl and win it this year (fat chance) I would be ignorant to say I know this will happen, especially enough to bet all my meager life savings on it (which is zilch).

Who Says We're Wasting Our Time?

We're making a difference one person at a time.

One day I was at a Barnes and Noble browsing around. I got to the Philosophy section, and picked up The Christian Delusion. Part 2 of the book is titled "Why the Bible Is Not the Word of God." After reading about some historical, scientific, and moral errors I went to the Christian Inspiration section of the store to get a Bible so I could read the context of each verse. Finally, hours later I renounced my faith. Link

The Chronicle of Higher Education: "Among the Evangelicals: Inside a Fractured Movement"

It appears that American evangelicalism is finally coming into its own as a subject of social research and academic attention well beyond the scope of those who identify with it as insiders...Yet as soon as evangelicalism becomes a subject, it splinters and splits. Indeed, taken together, recent studies by more-or-less outsiders show there is no such thing as evangelicalism. The term represents a broad range of significantly different theologies, practices, and religious movements within Christianity, and there are often tensions among and within them. Which is no revelation at all to most more-or-less insiders, who call themselves evangelicals, however qualified, and who argue as much with others who do the same as with those of us who don't. Link

Apparently even among people who claim the Bible is God's word it's like herding cats!