Dennis R. MacDonald Rejects Jesus Mythicism!

Facebook LINK.

Dr. Dennis R. MacDonald was interviewed by Edouard Tahmizian, Vice President of Internet Infidels. It's an interesting interview that needs a wide hearing. You can even click below the video for a transcript.

Edouard Tahmizian comments below.

Quote of the Day On Bayes Theorem by josephpalazzo

josephpalazzo replied in Debunking Christianity: Here's Bayes Theorem:

In the denominator P(B) must refer to actual data, not some possibility. This also goes for all the other variables P(AlB), P(BlA) and P(A). As example, what is the probability of turning head on tossing a fair coin, which is 1/2. That number, 1/2, can be verified by tossing a fair coin 1000 times, 10,000 times and so on. It's not a guess, nor some divine revelation of some desirable event. If there is no verifiable data, Bayes Theorem is totally useless..

“Oh, You Know, God. Everyone Knows Who God Is”

Misled by supposed certainties about god  

The title of this article comes from one of my favorite Carl Sagan quotes. He was often asked, when he was giving lectures, if he believed in god: 

 

“I frequently reply by asking what the questioner means by ‘God.’ To my surprise, this response is often considered puzzling or unexpected: ‘Oh, you now, God. Everyone knows who God is.’ Or, ‘Well, kind of a force that is stronger than we are and that exists everywhere in the universe.’ There are a number of such forces. One of them is called gravity, but it is not often identified with God. And not everyone does know what is meant by ‘God.’ The concept covers a wide range of ideas.” (pp. 281-282, Broca’s Brain: Reflections on the Romance of Science) 

 

In fact, we are surrounded by, indeed assaulted by, god concepts continually, every day—and have been since we were toddlers. Even small towns commonly have a few Christian churches, and big cities have many. We know pretty well the god-ideas these churches promote. Not too far from my apartment there is a Catholic church at a street corner, with a statue of the virgin Mary overlooking the intersection; she usually holds a bouquet of flowers, placed there by devout parishioners. She represents a benevolent god.

Humanity’s Urgent Need to Outgrow Religion

The scams and deceptions continue

Here’s a headline that caught my attention this week: “Jesus baptism site makeover aims to draw a million Christians in 2030.” (BBC News, 15 January 2023) The article includes this text: 

“Samir Murad, who chairs the non-profit foundation set up by the Jordanian government to oversee the project, insists the integrity of the area will be maintained. ‘It would be foolish and unwise to try and create a touristic destination that's based on commercialisation and theme park-type issues in a site so holy,’ he says. ‘Let's remember this is the third-holiest site in Christianity. This is the site where Jesus got his calling and so it would be highly inappropriate, if you will, to corrupt it or violate in any way.’”

It will be a “340-acre baptism zone.” They want to attract a million Christian visitors by 2030—but it’s not a theme-park tourist destination? There’s also this line: “Plans for the new development include so-called glamping-style lodging and eateries, serving locally grown organic food.” Glamping? That’s a merger of glamourous and camping. But it would be “foolish” to go for something resembling a theme-park?

"God and Horrendous Suffering" Now $9.99

Kindle edition of "God and Horrendous Suffering" is now $9.99 at Amazon! LINK

A Pop Quiz for Christians, Number 6

What devout scholars know vs. what devout churchgoers believe

A long time ago, devout scholars thought they could strengthen the faith by studying every chapter and verse of the gospels. Thus an industry was born: Christian academia. Many, many thousands of books, commentaries, articles, doctoral dissertations have been written. Not a single word of the gospels has missed their careful attention. But the unintended, lamentable result was that certainties about Jesus were damaged and diminished. It turns out that the gospels fail to meet minimal standards to qualify as history. Most of the devout scholars have been able to finesse this problem: they invent theologies to be able to hold on to Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Chapter 13: "Christianity Can be Hazardous to Your Health, by Harriet Hall

Dr. Skepdoc Harriet Hall died peacefully in her sleep last night. In her honor I present a sample of her work from my anthology Christianity is not Great. If there is any occasion to see the truth of her chapter look no further that how Covid-19 and it's variants have killed, and are still killing, ignorant Christian vaccine deniers. She was one of the greats in our lifetime! If you haven't read that anthology yet, there are a number of really good chapters in it! 

 

Christianity Can be Hazardous to Your Health,  

by Harriet Hall, MD

Religion will always be a controversial subject, but its impact on health is one area that lends itself to objective investigation.

David Wood vs John Loftus Debate: Did Jesus Rise from the Dead? (May 2015)

A friend who goes by the name Ozzy Ozone just posted this debate with commentary. He sped up the video of my talk without telling people that he did so, until well into it. He just wanted to get through it fast. But it makes me look spastic. If you're interested in the normal speed of the debate, here it is:

Who Was Jesus? Lunatic, Liar, Failed Prophet, Cynic, Sage, Celestrial Being...

Over at The Secular Frontier John MacDonald singled me out for my journey from someone who previously believed Jesus was the Son of God, to thinking he was a failed apocalyptic prophet, to taking an agnostic stance on the question, ending up as a Jesus mythicist. At the international conference on the historical Jesus, put on by GCRR, I had summed up my recent journey, saying:

I have resisted taking a stand on Jesus Mythicism, arguing instead that, “At best Jesus was a failed apocalyptic prophet.” Halfway position. Not so sanguine now. I have since changed my mind. For a few years I embraced agnosticism. I have now established myself enough to take a stand on this issue. At what point can we say all traces of any real Jesus are gone, and that they’re gone because he never existed as a real person in the first place? We have to work with what we have, not what we hope will be discovered. What we can conclude is that whatever traces of a human being we might find behind the ancient tales of Jesus, at best they are indistinguishable from him not existing at all. Any real Jesus is therefore an unnecessary figure we can do without. That’s good enough when it comes to god and science. It’s good enough here. See: SOURCE.

Many atheists are changing their minds on the historical nature of Jesus, but MacDonald singled me out even though I have never argued for the mythicist viewpoint. I guess he wanted my attention. Okay, hi John! I hope 2023 is a good year for you! That being said, since I've never argued on behalf of my current viewpoint, I'm not going to argue with MacDonald either. Nonetheless, I want to refer everyone to the influence of the authors in my co-edited book with Robert M. Price, Varieties of Jesus Mythicism.

In addition to those authors there's the influence of Richard Carrier. In the first place he convincingly shows the book of Acts is fiction. In the New Testament that book is supposed to connect readers of Paul and the gospels to the 1st century historical church, and it fails, miserably. His talk in 2015 was significant for me. Carrier also wrote a significant recent essay, How We Can Know 1 Clement Was Actually Written in the 60s AD, which leads readers to question what we know about early church history itself, apart from the book of Acts. That essay puts all traditional timelines up for questioning and debate. So readers can understand my current view, especially if you read Bart Willruth's 2 Part essay, Reassessing Paul's Timeline. If Willruth's essay was available before we published our Jesus Mythicism anthology, I would've included it. Willruth says:

Robert Price, in his book "The Amazing Colossal Apostle" suggests that Paul's letters date from the late first century CE to the second century CE. While we differ on where to assign a re-dating of Paul, we both recognize that there is no reason to hold to traditional dating. In his post, "How do we know the Apostle Paul Wrote His Epistles in the 50's AD", Richard Carrier acknowledges that "I don’t consider this matter as settled as mainstream scholars do. Paul’s Epistles do fit remarkably well in the 50s B.C."

Willruth argues "we have enough reason to point to Paul's probable timeline of letters in the 40's -30's BCE." Then says, "If this chronology is correct, Paul would never have heard of Jesus of Nazareth and couldn’t have been writing to Christians as we would recognize them." He concludes:

The Colossal Embarrassment of Mark 16

A Bible chapter that damages Christian credibility 

The case can be made that most Christians don’t take all that seriously the god described in their Bible. This god knows amazing things about every human:

 

“…even the hairs of your head are all counted.” (Jesus-script, Matthew 10:30)

 

It is aware of everything that every person says: 

 

“I tell you, on the day of judgment you will have to give an account for every careless word you utter.”  (Jesus-script, Matthew 12:36)

 

And it knows everything we think: 

 

“…on the day when, according to my gospel, God through Christ Jesus judges the secret thoughts of all.” (the apostle Paul, Romans 2:16)

 

This attentive, intrusive god is also massively impressive on a cosmic scale: “Oh Lord, my God when I, in awesome wonder, consider all the worlds thy hands have made, I see the stars, I hear the rolling thunder, thy power throughout the universe displayed…” (from the hymn, How Great Thou Art)

Upcoming Debate: "Does God Exist?"

Earlier in April I announced I'm done writing and editing books. I'm not done writing, blogging, speaking, debating, or doing interviews though. Far from it! I have been invited to debate in person whether God exists. How would you go about such a broad topic?

Good News for the New Year!

I am pleased to announce that my 2021 book, Ten Things Christians Wish Jesus Hadn’t Taught, and Other Reasons to Question His Words… 

is now available in Spanish translation: 

The Kindle version will be priced at $.99 through January 3rd: LINK

The paperbound version costs $10.95. LINK

Please help spread the word about this Spanish translation!

I want to thank especially: 

David Cáceres González in Chile for doing the translation. A few months before beginning work on the project, he interviewed me about the book—and added Spanish subtitles. 

Tim Sledge, my publisher/editor at Insighting Growth Publications. Tim does a superb job critiquing and reviewing the manuscripts he’s preparing for publication. Tim’s own books include:

Goodbye Jesus: An Evangelical Preacher’s Journey Beyond Faith

Four Disturbing Questions with One Simple Answer: Breaking the Spell of Christian Belief

How to Live a Meaningful Life: Focusing on Things That Matter.

Cheers and Happy New Year,   David Madison  

David Madison was a pastor in the Methodist Church for nine years, and has a PhD in Biblical Studies from Boston University. He is the author of two books, Ten Tough Problems in Christian Thought and Belief: a Minister-Turned-Atheist Shows Why You Should Ditch the Faith (2016; 2018 Foreword by John Loftus) and Ten Things Christians Wish Jesus Hadn’t Taught: And Other Reasons to Question His Words (2021). His YouTube channel is here. He has written for the Debunking Christianity Blog since 2016.

 

The Cure-for-Christianity Library©, now with more than 500 titles, is here. A brief video explanation of the Library is here. 

 

Please support us at DC by commenting on and by sharing our posts, or subscribing, donating, or buying our books at Amazon.

All Is Calm, All Is Bright: Not According to Jesus

The coming of his kingdom will be horrific

“Silent night, holy night! All is calm, all is bright. Round yon Virgin, Mother and Child. Holy infant so tender and mild, Sleep in heavenly peace, Sleep in heavenly peace.” The sentiment-saturated Christmas season is gradually receding, with its images of baby Jesus in the manger and Handel’s magnificent music: “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” 

 

This text is from Isaiah 9:6, which the New Testament itself never applies to Jesus. This an example of inventing a Jesus that measures up to your ideal. During the runup to Christmas, I saw memes on social media that reflect this concept: “Instead of putting Christ back into Christmas, try putting Christ back into Christians.” Along with this we hear that Jesus was about love, compassion, helping the poor, caring for refugees: Jesus the good guy, Jesus the best guy.

On Self-Promotion

          This ad was placed as an insert in a local paper.

For about 15 years I owned a carpet cleaning business. My father installed and cleaned carpet so it was natural I did the same when I was no longer a minister. I bought a small established company for $35k, called Brock's Carpet Cleaning Inc. I got the money from a divorce settlement. I had to compete with other established businesses. The way to do that is to promote your business. So I did, with flyers, radio commercials with celebrities praising our company--like a former Mayor--and in coupon books. Notice the section "Don't Just Take our Word For It!" If you have a product to promote then you must promote it, and testimonials help.

I followed the same model when it came to books, since I was an unknown, having no recognition from the four horseman, or WLCraig. My book publishers spent next to nothing on promotion. Prometheus Books just sent out complimentary copies to people, as did others. Darren at GCRR held conferences on my books which helped!

I shared what others were saying about my books just as I shared what people had said about my carpet cleaning. BTW: I prided myself on being The Spot Geek, saying that "If I can't get a spot out then no one can." I educated customers by saying there is a difference between a spot and a stain. A stain is a chemical reaction that changes the color of the fibers. No one can get that out, although there are a few kits and techniques to colorize them back to the original color.

Anyway, people told me not to promote my books, that doing so is unprofessional. I promote them, yes, but you'll never (or almost never) find me saying my books are the shit, which they are! ;-) I let others do the talking for me. When they say so, I in turn say so. So say I!

On Book Publishing and Royalties

On Book Publishing

Craig is on the left. Strauss is on the right.

 

I didn’t get an agent for any of my books. I contacted the publishers directly myself. If you do a search for agents, finding one may help get your book picked up by a mainstream publisher. Just write an outline, 1-2 chapters, and a query letter to get them interested in selling your work. My big problem is that I never sought a mainstream publisher. I didn't figure it would be worth the wait to get a rejection letter in the end of the process, due to the polemical adversarial tone in most of my books.

I self-published my first book with Trafford Books in 2004. It was titled, From Minister to Honest Doubter: Why I Changed My Mind. I had to do most all the work in formatting it. In it I had a photo of my two professors, James Strauss, who taught at Lincoln Christian Seminary, and Bill Craig, who taught at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School (TEDS). Strauss attended my graduation from TEDS in 1985, where I earned my third master's degree, a ThM. Half of my hours were taken under them both at these two schools. They were my advisors and mentors.

Now as unbelievable as this is, I didn't know at the time, when I self-published this book in 2004, how influential Bill Craig had become since I left TEDS in 1985. I thought it was worth mentioning, but nothing more than that. But when Edward Babinski saw it in print he told everyone about it. People think I'm trying to hitch a ride on the coattails of Craig's acclaim, but I assure you I'm not. My work stands on its own. But people want to know. They want to know if Craig had a wayward former student, and if so, what does that student know that Craig doesn't know? So I mention it. It's mention-worthy, that's all.

Here's the Scoop On the Virgin Birth of a Boy God

See what YOU think! First read Part 1 then read Part 2. For the best book-length analysis of the virgin birth see Robert Miller, Born Divine: The Birth of Jesus and Other Sons of God. Miller wrote the chapter on Jesus fulfilling prophecy for my anthology, The Case against Miracles. See also Jonathan Pearce's book The Nativity: A Critical Examination.

Margaret Downey's Tree of Knowledge 2021

Margaret Downey is an important person among secularists, humanists and atheists.

Downey has had a prolific career in secular activism. She is the founder of the Freethought Society, and the Thomas Paine Memorial Committee. She is a past board member of the American Humanist Association, and the Thomas Paine National Historical Association. She is a current board member of the Freedom From Religion Foundation. Downey also serves as an advisor for the Robert Green Ingersoll Birthplace Museum and the Openly Secular campaign.

Year after year I watched as she decorated her yearly "Tree of Knowledge" with books she thought were important, as I was publishing mine. Then she finally decorated her 2021 tree with all 12 of mine. Finally! How many books of mine can you spot?

Merry Mythmas To One And All!

Here are a few pics for you! 

Here I am in front of historic lights in Fort Wayne, Indiana.

Why I Became an Atheist: A Former Preacher Rejects Christianity

I'm done writing and editing books, so I'm highlighting each one of them in thirteen separate posts.

My first published book, Why I Became an Atheist: A Former Preacher Rejects Christianity, is my magnum opus! If you don't have it you're missing out on what I consider to be my most important work. Pictured is the 2nd edition published in 2012. The 1st edition was published in 2008. Very rare is an atheist book that gets a second edition!

I'm described as a "Former Preacher" in the title. I'm not just a preacher though. I'm a philosopher with several advanced degrees and plenty of classroom time as an instructor of philosophy, ethics, critical thinking, western literature, apologetics, hermeneutics, and a few Bible classes. I taught for the Trine University, Kellogg Community College, Lincoln Christian College, and Great Lakes Christian College. So the words "Former Preacher" don't fully describe me, even though I was in the ministry for about 15 years, mostly while I was also teaching. I had wanted my publisher to call me a "Former Apologist" but they thought few people understood what that means.

I started teaching philosophy and ethics classes in 1985, first for the College of Lake County, in Grayslake, Illinois. In my first class I lost about half my students. As I think back, it was probably due, in part, because I was a flaming evangelical. A larger factor was because the students could not understand me. Yep, that's right. Being in a Ph.D. program at Marquette University, after earning three masters degrees, I didn't know how to bring the information down to college students. So I thought my teaching career was over before it began. Luckily the chair of the philosophy department told me this happens more often than not for first time philosophy instructors. *Whew*

Over time I became an expert teacher, bringing highly complex ideas down to first year students. I eventually learned how to communicate to the average educated person in the pew. My goal was, and is now, to keep it as simple as possible without being simplistic. The problem with this goal is that there are some elitist readers who think I'm ignorant, for if I was smarter and better educated it would reflect in my vocabulary. Smart, highly educated people, it's assumed, use the nomenclature requisite with their educational achievements.

You can see this same "dumbing down", as the elitists call it, reflected in my writings. While I could use technical philosophical language, and quote from the original Hebrew and Greek languages in the Bible, I found that so long as I was accurate I didn’t need to impress people by writing for the scholars.

This is reflected in a few blurbs for my books.

The Bible Fails as “God’s Truth”—and That’s a Big Relief

The few good bits are swamped by the many bad bits

When the movie, The Ten Commandments, was released in 1956 I was a 14-year-old devout Christian living in a small town in northern Indiana. I saw the film in our town’s only cinema, and was especially awestruck by the slender fiery finger of God descending from the sky to blast onto the stone tablets those famous ten commandments. Yes, that must have been exactly how it happened. I suspect that movie played a role in securing a firm place for this famous law code in American consciousness.

The Christian Delusion: Why Faith Fails

I'm done writing and editing books, so I'm highlighting each one of them in thirteen separate posts.

I envisioned my first anthology The Christian Delusion to be an extension of my first book, Why I Became an Atheist. I thought it would be great to get experts to write on topics I addressed in my book. All the themes in it expand on issues raised in my very first book. I personally think The Christian Delusion delivers a powerful blow to conservative Christianity, especially when combined with its predecessor.

Dawkins: I named the book The Christian Delusion after Dawkins' popular bestseller The God Delusion. His focus was on God. Mine was focused on the Christian God. I had hoped it might get his attention. It didn't. In fact, none of the so-called New Atheists--publicly acknowledged my books.

The End of Christianity

I'm done writing and editing books, so I'm highlighting each one of them in thirteen separate posts.

This anthology was named after Sam Harris's book The End of Faith like some others of mine. The so-called New Atheists took aim at God. My books took aim at Christianity in specific, because I knew the most about that religious faith.

After my first anthology, The Christian Delusion, I started telling authors the due date for their submissions was one month earlier than the actual deadline, to avoid last minute submissions. If I was concerned how the chapter was going I would ask for an outline, or rough draft along the way.

The Outsider Test for Faith: How To Know Which Religion is True

I'm done writing and editing books, so I'm highlighting each one of them in thirteen separate posts.

I had wanted the subtitle to be "How to Know Which Religion Is True If There Is One, since I don't think there is one. But that was rejected by my publisher for some ignorant reason I forget now.

Most of my books were conceived and tested on this blog in debates with believers. This is the case with this book more than any other. Here's the Amazon link to my book. In it I'm arguing for a fair test to help believers examine their own faith honestly, without any special pleading or double standards. I am arguing that every honest seeker should embrace it. This should be seen in the first few pages of my book. While I think the test leads to unbelief, that's a separate debate.

God or Godless: One Atheist. One Christian. Twenty Controversial Questions.

I'm done writing and editing books, so I'm highlighting each one of them in thirteen separate posts.

Today I'll tell you about my co-written book with Dr. Randal Rauser, God or Godless?: One Atheist. One Christian. Twenty Controversial Questions, published in April, 2013.

The first thing to say is that Rauser contacted me to co-write the book without first reading my magnum opus Why I Became an Atheist. That's instructive, since he didn't research into how formidable of an opponent I might be.

Christianity is Not Great: How Faith Fails

I'm done writing and editing books, so I'm highlighting each one of them in thirteen separate posts.

The first thing you should know is that the publisher wanted to name this book, Deliver Us From Evil. Since my goal was to produce books named after the Four Horsemen (plus Victor Stenger, who just missed that party with his 2007 NY Times Bestseller, God: The Failed Hypothesis), I was adamantly opposed to it. So was Richard Carrier, and I think Russell Blackford, who all voiced our objections.

On hindsight, after I failed to edit a book named after Daniel Dennett's book, like Breaking the Christian Spell, I wish we had used that provocative title instead. It sounds sexy doesn't it? Deliver Us From Evil. I like it now, especially after the rise to power of Christian Theocratic/Nationalists with the twice impeached one-term former President Donald Trump, and the January 6th failed coup attempt on American democracy after failing to steal a presidential election.