Okay, The Time Has Come, I'm Done

[Edited July 6, 2012: Below is my original post where I said I was done arguing with Christians and done wasting so much time here. It wasn't long before I was back, this time arguing mostly with the atheists at Freethought Blogs, which can be read here in reverse chronological order. Now I am done arguing with atheists too, that is, unless there is something egregious that needs to be addressed by me. Again, I'll stick around, comment on occasion, and update people from time to time. I have assembled a good team of bloggers here so enjoy them. Back to your regularly scheduled program.]

I have no more desire to engage Christians. They are deluded, all of them. I have never been more convinced of this than I am now. I have better things to do. I spent 39+ years of my adult life on a delusion. If I add the years of my childhood that's almost my entire life. Yet this is the only life I will ever have. It's time to move on, or at a minimum take a very long hiatus. I just finished what may be my last book, on The Outsider Test for Faith, to be published by Prometheus Books early next year. How many times do I need to kick the dead horse of Christianity? I don't think I need to say anything more. If what I have written isn't good enough then nothing is good enough for some Christians. What I intend to do is turn this blog over to a few qualified people. I'll still be a part of it and I suppose I'll post something from time to time. But I see no reason to waste large chunks of my time on this delusion anymore. [Edit: For further clarification I commented below.]

Articulett Responds To The Question of the Origins of the Universe

Jeff Foley wrote: Let us keep it simple, then: prove or disprove the necessity of at lease one "being" which has the power of being "in and of" itself (aseity). All that exists is the result of this/these "being(s)." As a scientist and philosopher, you should be familiar with the proposition: Ex nihilo, nihil fit (from nothing, nothing comes.) I am using the proposition as a postulate; at least one "being" must "be" (has aseity.) Either something must have aseity, or things pop into existence from "thin air." Let us call this/these being(s) God. Should I assume that you do not believe in God, and instead you believe that all that exists came from "thin air"? Articulett responds:

Why Do I Regularly Promote My Books?

I must apologize to regular readers of this blog since I promote my books often. It probably annoys a few of you. But I do so just like a mother wants to talk about her new baby. Why not? As you can see from the Blogger Pageviews we're getting 129,000 hits a month (no they're not all from me, either!). And many of these hits are new visitors to DC. So I want them to know about my book, Why I Became an Atheist, which is getting some superior reviews. Likewise for The Christian Delusion, and The End of Christianity.

The OTF is the Solution to Religious Diversity

I want people to see the Outsider Test for Faith (OTF) as the solution to an incredible amount of religious diversity. This is a problem that needs a solution. No other methods have worked before. If people cannot find solutions to problems within a business they hire solution specialists who offer ways to solve it. Mediators find ways to bring people together by offering ways they can see their differences in a better light. That’s what the OTF does. The goal is to offer a fair test to find out which religion is true if there is one. The OTF grants that a religious faith can be reasonable and asks believers to test their faith with it, just as it grants that non-belief is reasonable and asks non-believers to consider the religious options available. It grants the possibility that one particular religious faith could pass the test, just as it grants the possibility that none of them do. To be a fair and objective test it must allow that any conclusion could result from taking the test, and the OTF does just that. If someone disagrees he or she will not only need to find fault with it, but also propose a better test. What’s the alternative?

The skepticism required by the OTF is expressed as follows: 1) It assumes one's own religious faith has the burden of proof; 2) It adopts the methodological naturalist viewpoint where we assume there is a natural explanation for the origins of that religion, its holy books, and it’s extraordinary claims of miracles; 3) It demands sufficient evidence, scientific evidence, before concluding a religion is true; and most importantly, 4) It disallows any faith in the religion under investigation since it cannot leap over the lack of evidence by punting to faith.

Believers may object that if they assume the skepticism of the OTF it will automatically cause them to reject their religious faith, and as such, doing so unfairly presumes its own conclusion. But I think not, not if there is objective evidence, sufficient evidence, for one’s religious faith. For if it exists then even a skeptic should come to accept it. Many people are convinced every day about issues when the evidence suggests otherwise. If God created us as reasonable people then the correct religious faith should have sufficient evidence for it since that’s what reasonable people require. Otherwise, if this evidence doesn’t exist in sufficient quantities then God counter-productively created us as reasonable people who would reject the correct faith. It also means that people born as outsiders in different geographical locations will be condemned to hell (however conceived) by God merely because of when and where they were born. This doesn’t bode well for an omniscient omnibenelovent but wrathful kind of God. Even apart from such a God concept the only way to settle which religious faith is true is to rely on sufficient evidence.

On Death, Part 1 and 2

Check these two videos out.

Evolution Occurs Faster Than You Think

Link

How Science Leads to Naturalism (At Least For Me)

We should be skeptics of extraordinary claims of miracles in the ancient past. Tell me why we shouldn't? There are too many of them in every culture, too many mythical stories.

Science must assume a natural explanation for every event. Historians must do likewise. When in the Infancy Gospel of Thomas we find that Jesus took clay, made it into birds and let them fly, how should a historian proceed? He cannot take that claim seriously.

My claim is that even if Jesus did miracles there is no way given the historical tools at our disposal to say that he did. Doing so against the tools available to us can only come by way of faith. But faith claims more than the evidence allows. So why should anyone embrace faith? If faith is a legitimate way of accessing what happened in the past then even though a historian must deny Jesus created birds out of clay anyone can simply say that he did based on faith. With faith anyone can say anything that was reported in the ancient past happened as reported. But we know better.

This is science.

So the question for a believer is that if a historian cannot conclude miracles occurred in the past then why do you believe the Bible? And if you cannot believe the Bible what would you really believe? That is, if there was no Bible, if there was no reason to believe it, what would you believe? If science produced the results I just described then you would trust science to help solve other mysteries of the universe.

Science is based on reason so it doesn't exclude philosophical analysis. Science and philosophy are bedfellows. You always see an experiment coupled with reasoning.

And if the Bible is no longer authoritative as God's word then you are free to conjecture other possible gods that might exist, like a scientific one who has been creating and then re-creating one universe after another to see how the creatures in his universes behave. I see no reason why a god could not have created this one last universe from a quantum wave fluctuation with all of the fine tuning needed to produce this universe before committing deicide. There are many possibilities like this, none of which would ever lead you to that a Triune God sent his son to die and rise from the grave. So at that point you jettison these other god hypotheses as irrelevant to properly understanding why we exist and you simply trust science to do its thing.

This is how it happened with me.

[First posted on 11/21/10].

Victor Stenger On Science and Religion

Link.

Are Skeptics Exclusivists? Apologist David Marshall Opines, "Yes." *Sigh*

I've tried to disabuse him of this. Anyone else want to try? ;-) He said:

You make the epistemic claim:

A1 "There isn’t enough evidence to positively assent to that belief."

or the historical claim:

A2 "Religionists have not produced the evidence to believe."

A in both cases is in conflict with non-A, and therefore excludes it. A1 and A2 are also both universal claims to know what you can't possibly know. That kind of sweeping claim makes more sense on theism, in which God could presumably reveal it to you, than on atheism, in which you are just one, subjective, biased, brain in a skull with a few cords sticking out, like billions of other such brains, evolved with an eye to reproductive success, not truth. Link

Plantinga is Grossly Monumentally Massively Wrong

Christian philosopher Alvin Plantinga defends exclusivism by arguing that it “need not involve either epistemic or moral failure, and that furthermore something like it is wholly unavoidable, given our human condition.” He tells us there are three alternatives to religious diversity, (1) to continue believing, (2) to withhold belief, or (3) to deny one’s belief. Against (2) withholding belief, he argues “there is no safe haven here, no way to avoid risk. In particular, you won't reach safe haven by trying to take the same attitude towards all the historically available patterns of belief and withholding: for in so doing you adopt a particular pattern of belief and withholding, one incompatible with some adopted by others. You pays your money and you takes your choice, realizing that you, like anyone else, can be desperately wrong. But what else can you do? You don't really have an alternative.” Against (3) denying one’s belief, he argues this “is not a way out.” For “if I do this I will then be in the very same condition as I am now.” For he will be denying propositions that others believe in and will no more be able to convince them they are wrong than if he didn’t do this. So he opines that the charge of intellectual arrogance “against exclusivism is hoist with his own petard,” for it is “self-referentially inconsistent.”

Given religious diversity the proper attitude, the adult attitude, is doubt. At the minimum it means withholding belief. At most it means denying belief. There is a huge difference between assenting to a belief and doubting it, just as there is between assenting to a belief and denying it. There are just too many ways to be wrong. So there is no epistemic parity between belief and doubt (or rejection) at all. Doubting (or rejecting) a belief is easy. We all do it all of the time. The hard part is to set forth a positive case for one particular belief out of the myriad number of them available. For Plantinga to say doubt (or denial) is “self-referentially inconsistent” is grossly monumentally massively wrongheaded. The person doing the doubting or denying something simply says there isn’t enough evidence to positively assent to that belief. And people all over the world do this with respect to the other faiths they reject. How is that “self-referentially inconsistent”? Is Plantinga’s denial of all other religions also “self-referentially inconsistent”? People cannot have a “self-referentially inconsistent” belief until they believe in something. The way he uses the word “belief” is akin to claiming that a historian who argues we do not know what happened at Custer’s Last Stand has a belief about what happened, i.e., that we do not know what happened at Custer’s Last Stand. Does that make any sense, that a historian who says “I don’t know what happened at Custer’s Last Stand” is saying “I know what happened at Custer’s Last Stand”? If such a conclusion is to be considered a belief then Plantinga is equivocating on the meaning of the word. For then the word “belief” is equivalent to the word “doubt.” Can we say Plantinga doubts Christianity? Can it be said that as a non-believer I believe in Christianity? Does it even make sense to say this about the relationship of Plantinga to Christianity, or me to Christianity? Hardly.

Occidental vs Oriental Ontological Arguments

When it comes to the ontological argument most believers can use it to their own conceptions of god. An eastern pantheist could easily begin Anslem’s ontological argument by conceiving that the greatest conceivable being is the One, that which cannot be conceived. This conception of the One denies that there is a personal god, something westerners conceive differently because of being born and raised in the Occident rather than the Orient. But by following the train of reasoning involved, the proper conclusion would be that therefore the One, that which cannot be conceived, exists. For westerners who think this is irrational the easterner could simply reply with a koan. A koan is a story, dialogue, question, or a statement which is used in Zen-practice to silence the questions of the rational mind. A famous koan says: “Two hands clap and there is a sound. What is the sound of one hand?” This is because to easterners, reason cannot approach or understand or conceive the One, the ultimate reality. People who say that they cannot understand something are emphatically not saying that they understand it. Polytheists, as far as I know, could also use the ontological argument to argue for the head god of their pantheon of gods, if they are unaware (and hence cannot conceive) that other people in other parts of the world have bigger conceptions of god.

Is Atheism a Religion?

No it is not! It's not even a worldview. No matter how you define religion it must include supernatural forces or beings, and atheists deny them. If a Christian reader thinks atheism is a religion then please provide for us a definition of religion that applies both to Christianity and to its denial. Define it such that it applies to all groups that believe in the supernatural and also to groups that deny the supernatural. My guess is that any definition of religion that includes atheism will either deny the inherent supernaturalism of religions like Christianity, or will end up reducing religion to the lowest common denominator of a social grouping. Give it a go, okay? One lame attempt would be to say that atheism is a religion because it takes a position on metaphysical issues, I suppose, but then by the same token, as Dr. David Eller wrote: "If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby." [First published 5/20/09]

CFI Charges Country Club with Religious Discrimination After Cancelled Dawkins Event

On April 30, 2012, the Center for Inquiry (CFI) filed suit against a Michigan country club for religious discrimination and breach of contract after the club cancelled an event because of the attendees’ lack of religious beliefs.

CFI is charging the Wyndgate Country Club in Rochester Hills, Michigan, and its owner with violation of the Civil Rights Act and with breaking its contract with CFI’s Michigan branch. The Wyndgate cancelled a scheduled CFI–Michigan event to be held October 12, 2011, that would have included an address by Richard Dawkins.

The Wyndgate justified breaking its contract by stating that “the owner does not wish to associate with certain individuals and philosophies,” referring to the “philosophies” of Professor Dawkins and other nonbelievers. The expressed reasoning for the cancellation specifically referenced Dawkins’ October 5, 2011, appearance on The O’Reilly Factor, during which Dawkins’ atheism was central to the conversation. Wyndgate thus denied use of its public accommodations entirely on the basis of religion.

“This was to be an opportunity for friends to gather, enjoy each other’s company, and hear from one of their favorite authors, an internationally renowned professor; but the Wyndgate opted to breach its contract simply because atheists would be taking part,” said Steven Fox, Legal Director for CFI. “If this kind of discrimination was directed at any religious group there would rightfully be no end to the outrage. The fact that the victims are nonbelievers makes it just as wrong, just as unacceptable, and just as unconstitutional—and we will not let it stand.”

Since filing suit, the case has been featured in media coverage by such outlets as The Detroit News, The Oakland Press, MLive, and WJR’s Frank Beckman Show.

Read more »

Richard Carrier's Talk On the Historicity of Jesus For the Freethought Festival

It's really good (audio), something that if he presents as a hypothesis and documents well, as I know he will, should advance the discussion about Jesus.

Dawkins Foundation: Innovating for a Secular World. A Call to Action by Sean Faircloth, Madison, WI

Chris Hallquist Asks For Input On His New Book

I just wanted to let you know that I'm working on another book, and finally have a plan that may lead to finishing the damn thing. I'm in the process of working the material I have into coherent drafts of chapters, which as I write them get published via my blog. Here are the first two installments:

Introduction: The one book that will convince you Christianity is false

Chapter 1: Don't Panic!: On Finding Atheism Unfamiliar and Scary

If you could link to this, it would be greatly appreciated, because I'm trying to get as many comments as possible on the drafts, and hopefully even build excitement about the book. Also, I found your post with the long quote from Bruce Gerencser, which you posted last week, very interesting, and I wouldn't mind some advice on "approach" from him. If you can get him--or anyone else--to read and comment on the drafts it would be greatly appreciated.

My response:

My Interview With the Freethinkers Hour

I was told that if I said something I wanted edited out that it would be, just start over. I mispronounced the word "mythologized" and expected I could start over. Sheesh. Enjoy. This interview was largely about the recent Freethought Festival I attended in Madison, Wisconsin.

Why Evolution is True and Why Many People Still Don’t Believe It

This is a lecture by Jerry Coyne as part of the Evolution Matters Lecture Series featuring scientists from Harvard and around the world who are on the cutting-edge of advancing our understanding of evolutionary science. His talk begins at 8:30 but Andrew Berry's introduction to Coyne is extremely glowing.



After watching these excellent videos the Christian might want to consider once again how evolution challenges Christian dogma.

This is the Funniest Video I Have Probably Seen...and Intelligently Done

See what you think:

God is Love (But He Is Also Just)

Biblical scholars have looked at the Hebrew word for justice (mishpat) and concluded that it is basically equivalent to mercy. Nonetheless see what you think:

Again, What If Christians Went On Strike?

My initial argument can be found here. Randal Rauser asked about the practical specifics of how this might take place. They don't matter. What if Christians kept their faith to themselves? What if Christians didn't share their faith with anyone else? Grant this and then ask yourself if there is anything about the Christian religion that would survive into the future. We all think other religions would die out. Why then does he suppose that his faith would not? In order to suppose that his faith would not die out he needs to provide some objective evidence that his God is doing something now that would help convert people if Christians stopped sharing the gospel.

So, what objectively is his God doing now? He hasn't answered.

What Happens When Evangelicals Attract the Best and the Brightest? The Test Case of My Alma Mater, Lincoln Christian University

President Dr. Keith Ray is a friend of mine. We were students together under Dr. James Strauss. I know Keith wants to attract the best and the brightest scholars to teach at LCU. And it looks like he has done that. He attracted Chris Keith and Anthony Le Donne. But these two scholars have caused quite a stir among the constituents of LCU. Who are they?

Ed Jones On a Viable Solution to the Jesus Puzzle

A viable historical solution to the Jesus puzzle has taken place within the Guild of NT studies, the only discipline capable, not only of identifying our primary Scriptural source of apostolic witness, but of appropriately interpreting this source as well. However, “few are they who find it” even among well-known NT scholars. Finding it, this historical solution, is “a task to which specialized knowledge in the areas of philology, form and redaction criticism, literary criticism, history of religions, and New Testament theology necessarily applies.” (Hans Dieter Betz). “Over the last two centuries, there gradually emerged a new access to Jesus, made available through objective historical research.” (James M. Robinson). Under the force of present historical methods and knowledge this new access was brought to a highly creditable understanding during the 1980’s.

Dr. Randal Rauser Says I Came Up With a New Argument!

I don't know whether it's new or not, but the thought tickles my fancy. A novel argument is hard to come by these days because the ancients have stolen all of our ideas! Here is what Rauser said:

John Loftus just came up with a new argument against Christianity. He summarized it like this:

1) If Christianity is true then the Christian faith will probably not die out if Christians stop proselytizing.

(2) The Christian faith will probably die out if Christians stop proselytizing.

(3) Therefore Christianity is [probably] false.

It is, if nothing else, a novel argument. Link

My argument asks What Would Happen if Christians Went on Strike?

Schneier on Harris on Profiling

Sam Harris featured a guest post by security expert Bruce Schneier on profiling, who says: 1) Profiling people who “look Muslim” will have a high false positive rate, 2) “looking Muslim” is a hopelessly indefinable criterion, 3) terrorists will use profiling to avoid detection, and 4) it’s a strategy to alienate those who could be on our side. Link. It looks like they will be dialoguing about it in the future. At least Sam is willing to learn. Good for him!