Plantinga is Grossly Monumentally Massively Wrong

Christian philosopher Alvin Plantinga defends exclusivism by arguing that it “need not involve either epistemic or moral failure, and that furthermore something like it is wholly unavoidable, given our human condition.” He tells us there are three alternatives to religious diversity, (1) to continue believing, (2) to withhold belief, or (3) to deny one’s belief. Against (2) withholding belief, he argues “there is no safe haven here, no way to avoid risk. In particular, you won't reach safe haven by trying to take the same attitude towards all the historically available patterns of belief and withholding: for in so doing you adopt a particular pattern of belief and withholding, one incompatible with some adopted by others. You pays your money and you takes your choice, realizing that you, like anyone else, can be desperately wrong. But what else can you do? You don't really have an alternative.” Against (3) denying one’s belief, he argues this “is not a way out.” For “if I do this I will then be in the very same condition as I am now.” For he will be denying propositions that others believe in and will no more be able to convince them they are wrong than if he didn’t do this. So he opines that the charge of intellectual arrogance “against exclusivism is hoist with his own petard,” for it is “self-referentially inconsistent.”

Given religious diversity the proper attitude, the adult attitude, is doubt. At the minimum it means withholding belief. At most it means denying belief. There is a huge difference between assenting to a belief and doubting it, just as there is between assenting to a belief and denying it. There are just too many ways to be wrong. So there is no epistemic parity between belief and doubt (or rejection) at all. Doubting (or rejecting) a belief is easy. We all do it all of the time. The hard part is to set forth a positive case for one particular belief out of the myriad number of them available. For Plantinga to say doubt (or denial) is “self-referentially inconsistent” is grossly monumentally massively wrongheaded. The person doing the doubting or denying something simply says there isn’t enough evidence to positively assent to that belief. And people all over the world do this with respect to the other faiths they reject. How is that “self-referentially inconsistent”? Is Plantinga’s denial of all other religions also “self-referentially inconsistent”? People cannot have a “self-referentially inconsistent” belief until they believe in something. The way he uses the word “belief” is akin to claiming that a historian who argues we do not know what happened at Custer’s Last Stand has a belief about what happened, i.e., that we do not know what happened at Custer’s Last Stand. Does that make any sense, that a historian who says “I don’t know what happened at Custer’s Last Stand” is saying “I know what happened at Custer’s Last Stand”? If such a conclusion is to be considered a belief then Plantinga is equivocating on the meaning of the word. For then the word “belief” is equivalent to the word “doubt.” Can we say Plantinga doubts Christianity? Can it be said that as a non-believer I believe in Christianity? Does it even make sense to say this about the relationship of Plantinga to Christianity, or me to Christianity? Hardly.

Occidental vs Oriental Ontological Arguments

When it comes to the ontological argument most believers can use it to their own conceptions of god. An eastern pantheist could easily begin Anslem’s ontological argument by conceiving that the greatest conceivable being is the One, that which cannot be conceived. This conception of the One denies that there is a personal god, something westerners conceive differently because of being born and raised in the Occident rather than the Orient. But by following the train of reasoning involved, the proper conclusion would be that therefore the One, that which cannot be conceived, exists. For westerners who think this is irrational the easterner could simply reply with a koan. A koan is a story, dialogue, question, or a statement which is used in Zen-practice to silence the questions of the rational mind. A famous koan says: “Two hands clap and there is a sound. What is the sound of one hand?” This is because to easterners, reason cannot approach or understand or conceive the One, the ultimate reality. People who say that they cannot understand something are emphatically not saying that they understand it. Polytheists, as far as I know, could also use the ontological argument to argue for the head god of their pantheon of gods, if they are unaware (and hence cannot conceive) that other people in other parts of the world have bigger conceptions of god.

Is Atheism a Religion?

No it is not! It's not even a worldview. No matter how you define religion it must include supernatural forces or beings, and atheists deny them. If a Christian reader thinks atheism is a religion then please provide for us a definition of religion that applies both to Christianity and to its denial. Define it such that it applies to all groups that believe in the supernatural and also to groups that deny the supernatural. My guess is that any definition of religion that includes atheism will either deny the inherent supernaturalism of religions like Christianity, or will end up reducing religion to the lowest common denominator of a social grouping. Give it a go, okay? One lame attempt would be to say that atheism is a religion because it takes a position on metaphysical issues, I suppose, but then by the same token, as Dr. David Eller wrote: "If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby." [First published 5/20/09]

CFI Charges Country Club with Religious Discrimination After Cancelled Dawkins Event

On April 30, 2012, the Center for Inquiry (CFI) filed suit against a Michigan country club for religious discrimination and breach of contract after the club cancelled an event because of the attendees’ lack of religious beliefs.

CFI is charging the Wyndgate Country Club in Rochester Hills, Michigan, and its owner with violation of the Civil Rights Act and with breaking its contract with CFI’s Michigan branch. The Wyndgate cancelled a scheduled CFI–Michigan event to be held October 12, 2011, that would have included an address by Richard Dawkins.

The Wyndgate justified breaking its contract by stating that “the owner does not wish to associate with certain individuals and philosophies,” referring to the “philosophies” of Professor Dawkins and other nonbelievers. The expressed reasoning for the cancellation specifically referenced Dawkins’ October 5, 2011, appearance on The O’Reilly Factor, during which Dawkins’ atheism was central to the conversation. Wyndgate thus denied use of its public accommodations entirely on the basis of religion.

“This was to be an opportunity for friends to gather, enjoy each other’s company, and hear from one of their favorite authors, an internationally renowned professor; but the Wyndgate opted to breach its contract simply because atheists would be taking part,” said Steven Fox, Legal Director for CFI. “If this kind of discrimination was directed at any religious group there would rightfully be no end to the outrage. The fact that the victims are nonbelievers makes it just as wrong, just as unacceptable, and just as unconstitutional—and we will not let it stand.”

Since filing suit, the case has been featured in media coverage by such outlets as The Detroit News, The Oakland Press, MLive, and WJR’s Frank Beckman Show.

Read more »

Richard Carrier's Talk On the Historicity of Jesus For the Freethought Festival

It's really good (audio), something that if he presents as a hypothesis and documents well, as I know he will, should advance the discussion about Jesus.

Dawkins Foundation: Innovating for a Secular World. A Call to Action by Sean Faircloth, Madison, WI

Chris Hallquist Asks For Input On His New Book

I just wanted to let you know that I'm working on another book, and finally have a plan that may lead to finishing the damn thing. I'm in the process of working the material I have into coherent drafts of chapters, which as I write them get published via my blog. Here are the first two installments:

Introduction: The one book that will convince you Christianity is false

Chapter 1: Don't Panic!: On Finding Atheism Unfamiliar and Scary

If you could link to this, it would be greatly appreciated, because I'm trying to get as many comments as possible on the drafts, and hopefully even build excitement about the book. Also, I found your post with the long quote from Bruce Gerencser, which you posted last week, very interesting, and I wouldn't mind some advice on "approach" from him. If you can get him--or anyone else--to read and comment on the drafts it would be greatly appreciated.

My response:

My Interview With the Freethinkers Hour

I was told that if I said something I wanted edited out that it would be, just start over. I mispronounced the word "mythologized" and expected I could start over. Sheesh. Enjoy. This interview was largely about the recent Freethought Festival I attended in Madison, Wisconsin.

Why Evolution is True and Why Many People Still Don’t Believe It

This is a lecture by Jerry Coyne as part of the Evolution Matters Lecture Series featuring scientists from Harvard and around the world who are on the cutting-edge of advancing our understanding of evolutionary science. His talk begins at 8:30 but Andrew Berry's introduction to Coyne is extremely glowing.



After watching these excellent videos the Christian might want to consider once again how evolution challenges Christian dogma.

This is the Funniest Video I Have Probably Seen...and Intelligently Done

See what you think:

God is Love (But He Is Also Just)

Biblical scholars have looked at the Hebrew word for justice (mishpat) and concluded that it is basically equivalent to mercy. Nonetheless see what you think:

Again, What If Christians Went On Strike?

My initial argument can be found here. Randal Rauser asked about the practical specifics of how this might take place. They don't matter. What if Christians kept their faith to themselves? What if Christians didn't share their faith with anyone else? Grant this and then ask yourself if there is anything about the Christian religion that would survive into the future. We all think other religions would die out. Why then does he suppose that his faith would not? In order to suppose that his faith would not die out he needs to provide some objective evidence that his God is doing something now that would help convert people if Christians stopped sharing the gospel.

So, what objectively is his God doing now? He hasn't answered.

What Happens When Evangelicals Attract the Best and the Brightest? The Test Case of My Alma Mater, Lincoln Christian University

President Dr. Keith Ray is a friend of mine. We were students together under Dr. James Strauss. I know Keith wants to attract the best and the brightest scholars to teach at LCU. And it looks like he has done that. He attracted Chris Keith and Anthony Le Donne. But these two scholars have caused quite a stir among the constituents of LCU. Who are they?

Ed Jones On a Viable Solution to the Jesus Puzzle

A viable historical solution to the Jesus puzzle has taken place within the Guild of NT studies, the only discipline capable, not only of identifying our primary Scriptural source of apostolic witness, but of appropriately interpreting this source as well. However, “few are they who find it” even among well-known NT scholars. Finding it, this historical solution, is “a task to which specialized knowledge in the areas of philology, form and redaction criticism, literary criticism, history of religions, and New Testament theology necessarily applies.” (Hans Dieter Betz). “Over the last two centuries, there gradually emerged a new access to Jesus, made available through objective historical research.” (James M. Robinson). Under the force of present historical methods and knowledge this new access was brought to a highly creditable understanding during the 1980’s.

Dr. Randal Rauser Says I Came Up With a New Argument!

I don't know whether it's new or not, but the thought tickles my fancy. A novel argument is hard to come by these days because the ancients have stolen all of our ideas! Here is what Rauser said:

John Loftus just came up with a new argument against Christianity. He summarized it like this:

1) If Christianity is true then the Christian faith will probably not die out if Christians stop proselytizing.

(2) The Christian faith will probably die out if Christians stop proselytizing.

(3) Therefore Christianity is [probably] false.

It is, if nothing else, a novel argument. Link

My argument asks What Would Happen if Christians Went on Strike?

Schneier on Harris on Profiling

Sam Harris featured a guest post by security expert Bruce Schneier on profiling, who says: 1) Profiling people who “look Muslim” will have a high false positive rate, 2) “looking Muslim” is a hopelessly indefinable criterion, 3) terrorists will use profiling to avoid detection, and 4) it’s a strategy to alienate those who could be on our side. Link. It looks like they will be dialoguing about it in the future. At least Sam is willing to learn. Good for him!

Quote of the Day, by Mike Aus

The more I read Jerry Coyne's blog the more I love it. Link.

What Would Happen If Christians Went On Strike?

This post was provoked by Walter earlier, in the quote of the day, who asked, "Aren’t Christians supposed to be guided to the truth by the Holy Spirit? Are John’s arguments more powerful than the Third Person of the Trinity?"

Workers go on strike when they are overworked and underpaid. So I got to thinking what would happen if Christian believers from around the world went on strike. This strike would be against having to do all of the evangelistic and apologetic work themselves. What if they stopped praying for others to be saved? What if they stopped telling others about Jesus? What if Christians stopped evangelizing and arguing on behalf of Christianity? What if all evangelists, missionaries, and apologists went on strike?

I'm serious! What would happen? Think about this. I know Christians think they have a commission mandate to do evangelistic work, so it'll never happen. Consider it a thought experiment instead. Can God do this work himself? If he can, then why does he need for anyone to do this work at all? If he cares, really cares for people, then he should do something himself. Would God step in and show he cares? Would he do what is right because it is the right thing to do regardless of whether Christians helped him? Would Christianity survive and even thrive into the future? Or, would Christianity die out as God lets the world and its people go to hell? If God sits back and does nothing while the world goes to hell then he cannot be a good God, or perhaps he's just too lazy. ;-) Read to the bottom where I make a reasonable prediction that could very well upset your apologetic cart for good.

The TSA screws up again: makes mother fill up empty bottles of breast milk

Link.

Quote of the Day, by Walter ;-)

Aren’t Christians supposed to be guided to the truth by the Holy Spirit? Are John’s arguments more powerful than the Third Person of the Trinity?

Jerry Coyne On Whether God Can Create Mutations

Philosopher Eliottt Sober says we can’t rule this possibility out. Look how Coyne responds. You see, if we cannot rule out a possibility then a possibility is all that's left. Once again folks, probabilities are all that matter. As far as I can tell Sober is a philosopher who is simply defending the relevance of his own discipline. ;-)

The Web's Best Videos on Evolution, Creationism, Atheism and More

Click here. Below are three of them by QualiaSoup about science and evidence:

The Bible's Buried Secrets: The Garden of Eden

A Decent Review of My Revised Book, WIBA

Several people have told me they plan on reviewing my revised and expanded book, Why I Became an Atheist, and comparing it to the first edition. I've been waiting. Until then here's one:

the best popular level atheist book:

John's massively revised book surpasses the original in just about every way (the original was very good, so this is saying something). The sections on explaining faith, the cumulative method, and the reasons why theists reject the classical arguments for god greatly surpass anything in Hitchens, Dawkins, or Harris. Like in the first edition, he also does an excellent job explaining the way apologists use worldview and how his Outsider Test plays into this. On top of these more academic investigations, John explores the Bible (both Old and New Testament) and the historical Jesus. These will probably be more helpful in a casual level discussion of these issues.

If one seeks a good introduction to the arguments and nuances of "the God debates", this book is probably the best starting point because it goes over all of the relevant material but is not as technical as something like JL Mackie's classic The Miracle of Theism. Link.

I'm flattered and humbled of course. I've wondered if Richard Dawkins doesn't recommend it because of these kinds of blurbs. Who knows? But I don't say these kinds of things. Others do. So it's not my fault. ;-)

Quote of the Day, by Professor James East

This suggests a kind of "dual" of the OTF - an Insider Test for Other Faiths: Try and defend against your own criticisms of other religions with the same kind of excuses you'd use to defend your own religion. Link.

There Isn't Anything I Haven't Considered Before

I have talked to many believers face to face and online for about six years. Not one of them believes me when I say there isn't anything important they can tell me that I haven't considered before. Almost to a person they speak and write as if they can share something new that would cause me to change my mind. It's pathetic to me, and frustrating. I have to start all over with each new believer to convince them of this. Even now some believer just may comment below with what is perceived as something new, or a new approach to reaching me. Many have tried arguing with me. Others have ridiculed me--remember, it's supposed to have an effect when we do it to believers!? Some have tried being kind to me. A few have asked me to come "experience God" at their worship service.

Prayer: What Does The Science Say?

Old Yearbook Pictures When at Great Lakes Christian College

I liked my guitar. I only played it for Jesus.

Dr. James East and Articulet on Prayer, the OTF, and Rejecting Religion

There has been an interesting discussion between Dr. East and our own Articulet which I'd like to highlight. East says he rejected Christianity because of the OTF. It begins with a discussion on prayer where East says:

Ignorant Quote of the Day, by Keith R on Scientism

Scientism is self-refuting because it can’t be scientifically proven that we should only believe scientific facts, and since scientism isn't a scientifically proven fact it should be rejected. Scientism destroys science because it rejects presuppositions that science relies upon. Science makes several assumptions such as there is an observable universe outside of our minds and that universe behaves in a uniform and repeatable way. These assumptions can’t be scientifically proven true so without the justification of philosophy these assumptions would have no logical merit. Inductive reasoning, which is the epistemological heart of science, can’t be scientifically proven. Inductive reasoning says that events will probably proceed as they have in the past, but there is no way to support this presupposition as events could change at any time. Also, scientism invalidates the mathematics which science relies upon since math can’t be scenically proven. Mathematic proofs such as 2+2=4 are taken to be necessarily true. If scientism invalidates inductive reasoning and mathematics then it destroys the only source of truth that it claims is true. Link

Jerry Coyne has written a response to this kind of stuff right here. If nothing else, all reasonable people can agree with Michael Shermer when he says, the scientific method is the best tool ever devised to discriminate between true and false patterns, to distinguish between reality and fantasy, and to detect baloney. Come on now, what's the problem, and more importantly, answer this simple question: What's the alternative?

A New Meme, The Oblivious Christian Apologist

See also here, and here.

Quote of the Day, by Andreas Schueler on Matthew Flannagan

People might think I was hard on Christian philosopher and apologist Matthew Flannagan when he argued against the Outsider Test for Faith (OTF). But Andreas quoted from him and then summed it up by saying: "Calling this 'stupid' is an insult to stupid people." Here's the comment by Andreas. He first quoted from Flannagan, who said:

The reason you [me, John Loftus] gave for being sceptical about religious beliefs was the religious diversity that exists across cultures and time. People brought up within a Muslim society tend to be Muslim. If they were brought up in a different time and place they would not be. The same features apply to science, if you had been brought up in the 14 century you would not believe in evolution or relativity. If you were brought up in NZ maori culture in the 1700’s you would not accept scientific methodology at all. So by the OTF you should be sceptical of science, yet you claim its childish to be so.

Andreas: "Calling this "stupid" is an insult to stupid people. I think this response would be appropriate:"



Then Andreas offers another quote from Flannagan, saying it "...might be even dumber than the last one:"

Finally, note you [me, John Loftus] reintroduce the problem at a new level. Because you state “Science has produced the goods in an overwhelming number of areas” two problems with this. First, how do you know its produced the goods, presumably by a scientific survey of the past results of science. So your using science to vindicate science. Great, then one can argue the bible is the word of God because the bible says so.

Andreas again: "If he would have just said this in a debate, it would already be incredibly stupid. But using a computer and the internet to communicate this message is just stupidity of truly epic proportions..." Link.

-------
 
Anyone who needs this explained to them is ignorant. There are some people who simply cannot be helped. They are impervious to reason. Flannagan is one of them. Since believers like him cannot be helped I highlight what he must say in order to defend his faith. I do this in order to show more reasonable believers how their top-notch apologists reason with non-believers. Hint: It is stupider than stupid. This has ALL the markings of a brainwashed person who needs an intervention. Now you might think Flannagan is an aberration, but I assure you their name is Legion.

Apologists Are Made to be Stupid Because of Their Delusion

Do I even need to comment further? Let me just highlight what Christian apologist Matthew Flannagan wrote in response to the Outsider Test for Faith (OTF). Some people simply cannot be helped. Sophisticated theology is bankrupt if he is one of it's defenders, and I mean it. All I have to do is link to the discussion, let him have the last word and laugh at his ignorant, utterly ignorant, responses. Join with me folks, in laughing. Like most apologists he is impervious to reason. Like most of them I must prove their faith is nearly impossible before they will see it as improbable, which is an utterly unreasonable standard. Take note of how Matt doesn't need to provide a better method than science, which forms the basis for the OTF. Come on Matt, are you stupid or what? I no longer care what Christian apologists think if this is how they reason. If this is the best they can do then the good ship "Christian" will certainly sink eventually. They are on the wrong side of history. Of that I am certain.

Skeptical Books On Jesus

There are several books published in the last few years by skeptics. The most well-known ones are by Bart Ehrman and Robert M. Price. But there are some lesser known books that this post is intended to draw your attention to, some of which I have not read.

Jerry Coyne Compares World Religions to Science

Link. I love the two world maps he used, one of world religions and the other of world-wide scientific conclusions. I've used the first map before but I really love the second one. I'm planning on tracking down the source for both of them. The first map comes from Warren Matthew's book, World Religions (Wadsworth Publishing), seen here in the first link. The second map I'm trying to locate with no success. Is there a generic copyright-free world map that someone could doctor up to look like this one for my book on the OTF?