Ronald S. Hendel: "Giants at Jericho." What a Story Indeed!

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When I say there is no archaeological evidence for the Israelite Exodus, wilderness wanderings, or Canaanite conquest, I mean exactly what I say. Listen to what Ronald S. Hendel said about Jericho. He's a Professor of Hebrew Bible and Jewish Studies in the Department of Near Eastern Studies at the University of California, Berkeley.

This is what he said matter-of-factly:
According to the best interpretations of the archaeological evidence, Jericho was destroyed around 1550 B.C.E. and was not settled again until after 1000 B.C.E. But the emergence of Israel dates to around 1200 B.C.E., right in the middle of this 500-year gap. If Joshua and his troops had surrounded Jericho, there would have been nobody home.
Then Hendel goes on to try to salvage some kind of historicity to the story itself involving mythical giants in the land, whom it was believed were sired from the sons of god mating with women (Genesis 6). But one myth cannot be used to lend credibility to another one. He may be correct about what the Israelites believed, but I see no reason to accept any of this as historical at all. Apparently there were a number of these giants in the land--even Goliath was one of them. Where are the archaeological digs revealing any of the skeletal remains of even one of these giants? Again, there are none.

Christian, does this not trouble you? It should. Such a lack of evidence as this is the same thing we find when it comes to the Mormon claims of people living in America that form the basis of the Book of Mormon. You don't believe the Mormons precisely because of this lack of archaeological evidence. Why then do you not apply this same kind of evidential test when it comes to your own beliefs? This is what it means to take The Outsider Test for Faith. Come on, you can do it.

Atheism, Christianity and Morality

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Okay, there are several arguments I am damned tired of having to argue over and over and over. The issue of atheist morality is one of them. If you have not yet read an atheist response to this question, or if you are truly interested in how an atheist responds to it then check out the following links.

I believe morality is a social construct, and yet I'm a still a good person.

Scroll down on our FAQ sheet to Atheism, Christianity and Morality, and take special note of this link.

Please read these posts before commenting on morality any more...please.

Am I Omniscient Enough to Know There Isn't a God?

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District Supt. Harvey Burnett recently asked me this question:
How much knowledge of the natural universe do you have? What is the percentage? Give me an estimate. I would like to know.
The import of such a question is reflected in the title to this post. Some believers think, perhaps Harvey does too, that in order for me to claim a god doesn't exist I need to know all things. Really? This is so laughable I hardly know where to start, but here we go...

Do I need to have omniscience before I can claim the following things?

1) That there are no unicorns, elves, trolls, or hobbits.
2) That there is no Santa Claus or Easter bunny.
3) That there is no Zeus, Poseidon, Apollo, Artemis, Juno, Janus, Hermes, Aphrodite, Baal, Asherah, Molech, Ra, Hathor, Osirus, Seth, Horus, Thor, or one of the 2,500 deities of the world? Logic alone tells me they cannot all exist! Atheism Blog informs us that at least 500 of these deities are dead. Based on this J.L. Schellenberg argues that the odds are always going to favor the conclusion that your view is wrong in this situation. There are just too many other gods out there that undermine the probability that you’ve got the right one.

While I merely mentioned a few things that directly relate to whether I can claim to know the Christian God exists, there are a host of other things I can claim to know without also claiming omniscience. This includes everything I claim to know, as in E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G, since Harvey likes to use capital letters to emphasize things. Even though I do not have omniscience I can still claim to know everything that I claim to know, all of it. And trust me on this, there are degrees of assuredness to the things I claim to know, so when I say I know George Washington was the first President of the United States my assuredness of that fact in the past is always going to be less than my claim that when I drop a book it will fall because of gravity. So along with any knowledge claim there is an implicit assuredness factor that is left unstated. But I could state them for you if you want me too, with some further reflection. This means there is always a probability factor involved in all knowledge claims, and I also have a good grasp of those claims of mine that have a higher level of assuredness to them than other things I claim to know that I am less sure about.

So when it comes to my denial that the Christian God of the Bible exists I am about as sure of this as I am that George Washington was our first president, since whether or not this God exists is also a historical conclusion regarding the claims that such a God revealed himself in the past--the ancient superstitious past, mind you.

So in answer to Harvey’s question I know enough to know I don't know that much about the universe, kinda like Socrates who said that the wise person is the one who claims not to know much at all.

But, what I do know tells me there is no creator God, no Holy Spirit, no Trinity, no fall into sin in the Garden of Eden, no universal flood, no Exodus or Canaanite conquest, no prophecy about Jesus that specifically points to him as the Messiah, no virgin birth, no incarnation, no atonement, no resurrection, no ascension into the sky, no future coming of the Son of Man, no great white throne judgment, no Satan, no heaven above nor hell below, and no inspired writings from God.

I could be wrong about these things though, as Harvey will be quick to say since I've just admitted I don't know much about the universe. Yes, I could be wrong. I admit this. I could be wrong about George Washington too. But I consider what I do know to virtually eliminate that possibility. You cannot drive a truckload of silly hypotheses and ignorant conjectures based upon non-veridical religious experiences through that small hole of a possibility.

Now I have a question to ask you Harvey. How much do YOU know about the universe (and I’ll throw in the history of theology, the history of the Bible, the history of the church, apologetics, anthropology, psychology, and philosophy)? ;-) My claim is you don’t know what I do.

The Reality of Easter (Passover)

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In the Hebrew Bible, it was the Israelite priests that had themselves chosen by an ancient god of polytheism called Yahweh and set themselves up as his mouth piece leaving their final legacy in the editing of the Hebrew Bible known as “P“ for the Priestly School (This is confirmed by the fact that, with the passing of W.F. Albright (1891–1971) and the Albright School, the historicity of both the Patriarchs and Moses are now understood as pure religious myth.)

As a result of this edited legacy, the Israelite priests severed the Temple and whose control was nothing short of divine dynasty (After the reform of Josiah ended local shrines that posed competition for the Jerusalem Temple 2 Kings 22 - 23).

Here the grain, meat and drink offerings where served to the national god Yahweh only by this limited and tightly controlled priesthood. While whole offering sacrifices are discussed in the Hebrew text, the late and general procedure for offering a sacrifice, was (as in the case of meat) by taking only the best unblemished animals (“without blemish” is the requirement for sacrifice that runs throughout the entire book of Leviticus or a text constituting a major document of the Priestly school). Moreover, slaughtering it in the proper kosher method by bleeding it and then burning the fat, guts and bones to Yahweh while keeping the eatable portions for the priests themselves. What was not eaten by the priests was sold to the general Israelite population living in Jerusalem or the neighboring towns for money to maintain the Temple and spending money for these priests to support their families.

The Priestly Code is a complex religious document that demands sacrifice for sin offerings from everything from childbirth to a national Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) of an animal sacrifice by the High Priest to a yearly massive slaughter house event require of all Israelites called Passover. It is at such time as Passover that the strong stench of animal urine, dung and blood along with the bellowing cries of animals waiting for slaughter could be totally over powering when the streets around the Temple ran red with animal blood diluted with both urine and fecal matter. This, to such over lords as the Greeks (Seleucids such as Antiochus IV) and the Romans, Jewish sacrifice was totally repulsive.

Should this lunar event fall further into the heat of spring, the stench was multiplied along with pollution and disease. (We might note here that, just like a slaughtered Temple animal, the dying Jesus’ blood, as well as that of the other two criminals crucified on either side of him would have also been mixed with his own urine and fecal matter along with vomit which would most likely would have covered his chest due to a slow suffocating death.)

{In this respect, the Catholic crucifix (which depicts a loin cloth over the Jesus‘ private parts) is nothing but a pious depiction of the horrible reality of Roman crucifixion created not to offend its use in public churches above the altar. (The fact that medieval religious art depicts only Jesus nailed to the cross while the other two criminals are tied to their crosses is simply to help the pious religious mind think that ONLY Jesus alone shed his blood and clearly to teach a major Christian dogma in the doctrine of atonement and salvation.)}

With the Temple rededicated under the Hasmonaeans and the Jews now under Roman control, Judea was now given to Herod the Great to rule. To keep things civil, Herod's religious choices made sure the Temple affairs were run by secular priests or, what the New Testament calls Sadducees. (Josephus Antiques XV, XVI, XVII 1-8)

For the average religious Jew, secular life and religious law were meshed into one. Other than satisfying the tax burden of Rome, the life of a pious Jew as to satisfy the Torah requirements of their national religious life and heritage.

With no separation between religion and state, Temple corruption was rampart as noted by both Josephus and the Gospels. In short, what we find in the selling of animals in the Temple was none other than one of the first examples of a Capitalistic economy where profit is a motivating factor. Or better put, why travel to Jerusalem with an animal which one must feed and water on the journey and which may get blemished on the way; when one could simply take advantage of the “Buy Here; Sacrifice Here” convenient store Temple offerings. After all, money was a lot easier to carry up to Jerusalem for Passover than an animal.

Since the secular Sadducees control the Temple and the selling of sacrificial animals near the altar; for a price, one was guaranteed an animal without blemish would be guaranteed pass the test of the priest and leave everyone happy (whether it was in fact spotless could be certainly over looked for a good selling price).

The fact that Jesus is depicted in the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew 21: 12 - 14; Mark 11: 15 -18; Luke 19: 45 - 47) as objecting to the buying and selling in the Temple places his theology more in line with the Pharisees who were highly conservative in their theology, but who lack any control over the Temple.

This mixture of religion, state and Capitalism ended abruptly in 70 CE when the Romans burnt the last Temple ending both the secular sect of the Sadducees and over 2,000 years of sacrificial of offerings to Yahweh.

Against Presuppositional Apologetics

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I was recently asked what I thought about Presuppositional apologetics. Here is my lengthy response in its entirety and unedited:
I don't bother with them much. They're in a world of their own. One simply cannot presuppose the truths of disputable historical events prior to investigating whether or not those events actually took place and keep a straight face.

Penn & Teller On the Placebo Effect

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Look, we know most people will believe most any tale if it's told by a sincere person whom they respect. WE KNOW THIS! And we also know that once people believe something to be true they will seek to confirm it and they will discount contrary evidence. WE KNOW THIS! One example of this is the Placebo effect (see video below). So once again, what exactly is wrong with being skeptical about that which we were taught to believe? Christian, don't say that I must also be skeptical of that which I affirm, because I am. That's why I describe myself as an agnostic atheist. You need to deal with this question and not deflect it back to me. You need to be skeptical about that which you were taught to believe.

Great Posts at Common Sense Atheism

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As I've said before, I like what I read over at Common Sense Atheism. Consider bookmarking this site like I have. Here's a sampling of what you can find there:

1) The Explosion of Early Christianity, Explained;

2) "Atheists are not generally more rational or careful than believers";

3) "Atheists should focus less on a believer’s intellectual needs and more on their human needs";

4) What William Lane Craig is Right About;

5) 400+ Atheist Debates

Richard Carrier v. William Lane Craig Debate the Resurrection of Jesus

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The Outsider Test for Faith

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[Written by John W. Loftus] Here's an edited version of my Outsider Test for Faith chapter, which I read to the Evangelical Philosophical Society. My book fleshes it out much better and responds to all known objections:

THE OUTSIDER TEST FOR FAITH
by John W. Loftus

The most important question of all when it comes to assessing the truth claims of Christian theism is whether we should approach the available evidence through the eyes of faith, or of skepticism. Complete neutrality, while desirable, seems to be practically impossible, since the worldview we use to evaluate the evidence is already there prior to looking at the evidence. So the question I’ll be addressing today is whether we should adopt a believing or a skeptical predisposition prior to examining the evidence for a religious set of beliefs. I’ll argue that a skeptical predisposition is the preferred one to adopt.

My Outsider Test for Faith (OTF) is just one of several arguments I use to demonstrate that when examining the evidence for a religious set of beliefs the predisposition of skepticism is warranted. There is overwhelming, undeniable and non-controversial evidence for the test itself that can be found in the sociological, anthropological, and psychological data. I’ll start with some of this data that forms the basis for the test. Then I’ll describe the test, provide some examples of what it demands of the believer, and defend it from six major objections.

There is a great deal of discussion among Christian apologists over Bayesian “background factors,” which play a significant role in assessing the truth of Christianity in general, the likelihood of the resurrection of Jesus, the probability of miracles, and the problem of evil. But the most important background factor of all for cognitively assessing the truth claims of religious faith is one’s sociological and cultural background.

The basis for the outsider test has been stated adequately by liberal Christian philosopher John Hick: “It is evident that in some ninety-nine percent of the cases the religion which an individual professes and to which he or she adheres depends upon the accidents of birth.” That is to say, if we were born in Saudi Arabia, we would be Sunni Muslims right now. If we were born in Iran, we’d be Shi’a Muslims. If we were born in India, we’d be a Hindus. If we were born in Japan, we’d be Shintoists. If we were born in Mongolia, we’d be Buddhists. If we were born in the first century BCE in Israel, we’d adhere to the Jewish faith at that time, and if we were born in Europe in 1000 CE, we’d be Roman Catholics. For the first nine hundred years we would’ve believed in the ransom theory of Jesus’ atonement. As Christians during the later Middle Ages, we wouldn’t have seen anything wrong with killing witches, torturing heretics, and conquering Jerusalem from the “infidels” in the Crusades. These things are as close to being undeniable facts as we can get in the sociological world.

Had we lived in ancient Egypt or Babylon, we would’ve been very superstitious and polytheistic to the core. In the ancient world, we would’ve sought divine guidance through divination, tried to alter circumstances through magic, and believed in the dreaded evil eye.

There are a whole range of issues that admit of diversity in the moral and political areas as well, based to an overwhelming degree on the “accidents of birth.” Caucasian American men would’ve believed with President Andrew Jackson in manifest destiny, our God-given mandate to seize Native American territories in westward expansion. Up through the seventeenth century we would’ve believed that women were intellectually inferior to men, and consequently we wouldn’t have allowed them to become educated in the same subjects as men, much less to vote. Like Thomas Jefferson and most Americans, we would’ve thought this way about black people as well, that they were intellectually inferior to whites, while if we were born in the South, we would’ve justified slavery from the Bible. If in today’s world we were born in the Palestinian Gaza strip, we would hate the Jews and probably want to kill them all.

These kinds of moral, political, and religious beliefs, based upon cultural conditions, can be duplicated into a lengthy list of beliefs that we would’ve had if we were born in a different time and place. Voltaire was right: “Every man is a creature of the age in which he lives, and few are able to raise themselves above the ideas of their time.”

Social conditions provide us with the initial control beliefs we use from that moment on to incorporate all known facts and experiences. That’s why they’re called control beliefs. They are somewhat like blinders. From the moment we put them on, we pretty much see only what our blinders will let us see, because reason is mostly used to serve them.

Michael Shermer, a former Christian turned atheist, has done an extensive study of why people believe in God and in “weird things.” He argues: “Most of us most of the time come to our beliefs for a variety of reasons having little to do with empirical evidence and logical reasoning. Rather, such variables as genetic predispositions, parental predilections, sibling influences, peer pressures, educational experiences, and life impressions all shape the personality preferences and emotional inclinations that, in conjunction with numerous social and cultural influences, lead us to make certain belief choices. Rarely do any of us sit down before a table of facts, weigh them pro and con, and choose the most logical and rational belief, regardless of what we previously believed. Instead, the facts of the world come to us through the colored filters of the theories, hypotheses, hunches, biases, and prejudices we have accumulated through our lifetime. We then sort through the body of data and select those most confirming what we already believe, and ignore or rationalize away those that are disconfirming. All of us do this, of course, but smart people are better at it.”

Christian philosopher Robert McKim concurs in some respects. He wrote: “We seem to have a remarkable capacity to find arguments that support positions which we antecedently hold. Reason is, to a great extent, the slave of prior commitments.” Hence the whole notion of “an independent rational judgment” is suspect, he claims. This is not to deny that Christian apologists defend their faith with reasons. Of course they do. These apologists, if they’re good at what they do, will be smart people. But as Michael Shermer also reminds us, “smart people, because they are more intelligent and better educated, are able to give intellectual reasons justifying their beliefs that they arrived at for nonintelligent reasons.”

Psychiatrist Dr. Valerie Tarico describes the process of defending unintelligent beliefs by smart people. She claims, “it doesn’t take very many false assumptions to send us on a long goose chase.” To illustrate this she tells us about the mental world of a paranoid schizophrenic. To such a person the perceived persecution by the CIA sounds real. “You can sit, as a psychiatrist, with a diagnostic manual next to you, and think: as bizarre as it sounds, the CIA really is bugging this guy. The arguments are tight, the logic persuasive, the evidence organized into neat files. All that is needed to build such an impressive house of illusion is a clear, well-organized mind and a few false assumptions. Paranoid individuals can be very credible.” In her opinion this is what Christians do and best explains why it’s hard to shake the evangelical faith. Of course, I don’t expect Christians to agree with her that this is what they do, but then they cannot deny that people of religious faith do this. What else can best explain why there is still a Mormon church now that DNA evidence conclusively proves Native Americans did not come from the Middle East?

I’ve investigated my faith from the inside as an insider with the presumption that it was true. Even from an insider’s perspective with the Christian set of control beliefs, I couldn’t continue to believe. Now from the outside, it makes no sense at all. Christians are on the inside. I am now on the outside. Christians see things from the inside. I see things from the outside. From the inside, it seems true. From the outside, it seems almost bizarre. As Mark Twain wisely said, “The easy confidence with which I know another man’s religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.”

This whole inside/outside perspective is quite a dilemma and prompts me to propose and argue on behalf of the OTF, the result of which makes the presumption of skepticism the preferred stance when approaching any religious faith, especially one’s own. The outsider test is simply a challenge to test one’s own religious faith with the presumption of skepticism, as an outsider. It calls upon believers to "Test or examine your religious beliefs as if you were outsiders with the same presumption of skepticism you use to test or examine other religious beliefs." Its presumption is that when examining any set of religious beliefs skepticism is warranted, since the odds are good that the particular set of religious beliefs you have adopted is wrong.

The OTF is no different than the prince in the Cinderella story who must question forty-five thousand girls to see which one lost the glass slipper at the ball last night. They all claim to have done so. Therefore, skepticism is definitely warranted. This is especially the case when an empirical foot match cannot be had.

The amount of skepticism warranted depends on the number of rational people who disagree, whether the people who disagree are separated into distinct geographical locations, the nature of those beliefs, how they originated, how they were personally adopted in the first place, and the kinds of evidence that can possibly be used to decide between them. My claim is that when it comes to religious beliefs a high degree of skepticism is warranted because of these factors.

Surely someone will initially object that this is quite draconian in scope. Why take such an extreme stance? It’s because that’s how religious people approach all of the other religious faiths but their own. If someone claims she cannot do this because no one can test anything without assumptions of some kind, then this test challenges the believer to switch her assumptions. If she simply cannot do this, then let me suggest doing what RenĂ© Descartes did with a methodological (or hypothetical) doubt, although I’m not suggesting his type of extreme doubt. Hypothetically consider your faith from the perspective of an outsider.

If she refuses to do this then she must justify having such a double standard. Why does she test other religious beliefs differently than her own? For someone to object that what I’m asking is unfair, she has the burden of proof to show why her inconsistent approach to religious faith is justified in the first place.

I’ll grant that what I’m asking is a tough thing to do. That’s because, as anthropologist Dr. David Eller argues, our culturally inherited beliefs are what we use to see with. We don’t see culture. We see with culture. Our culturally inherited beliefs are much like our very eyes themselves. We cannot easily pluck out our eyes to look at them. But we must attempt this if we truly want to examine that which we were taught to believe. Only the honest the consistent and the brave will ever do this.

To the Christian theist the challenge of the outsider test means there would be no more quoting the Bible to defend the claim that Jesus’ death on the cross saves us from sins. The Christian theist must now try to rationally explain it. No more quoting the Bible to show how it’s possible for Jesus to be 100% God and 100% man with nothing left over. The Christian theist must now try to make sense of this claim, coming as it does from an ancient superstitious people who didn’t have trouble believing Paul and Barnabas were “gods in human form” (Acts 14:11; 28:6). The Christian theist must not assume prior to examining the evidence that there is an answer to the problem of horrendous suffering in our world either. And she’d be initially skeptical of believing in any of the miracles in the Bible, just as she would be skeptical of any claims of the miraculous in today’s world supporting other religious faiths. Why? Because she cannot start out by first believing the Bible, nor can she trust the people close to her who are Christian theists to know the truth, nor can she trust her own anecdotal religious experiences, since such experiences are had by people of all religious faiths who differ about the cognitive content learned as the result of these experiences. She would want evidence and reasons for these beliefs.

The outsider test also challenges believers to examine the social and cultural conditions of how they came to adopt their particular religious faith in the first place. That is, believers must ask themselves who or what influenced them and what the actual reasons were for adopting their faith in its earliest stages. Christian, just ask yourself whether the initial reasons you had for adopting your faith were strong ones. Just think about the problems you’ve experienced in your churches along with the intellectual problems you wrestle with in meetings like these. If you could go back in time knowing what you know now about how Christians behave in the church would you still choose to believe? And those initial arguments that convinced you to believe would surely be thought of by you as simplistic and unworthy of your consideration today. Just ask yourself if you would’ve become a Mormon instead, had a joyous friendly Mormon group approached you at that same vulnerable time in your life. Most all of us, most all of the time, do not have good initial reasons to accept our religious faith, which from that time forward acts like a set of blinders with regard to how we see the evidence. We just end up believing what we were taught to believe by people we trust in a Christian dominated culture.

At the very minimum, a believer should be willing to subject her faith to rigorous scrutiny by reading many of the best-recognized critiques of her faith, most of which are written by other professing believers. Evangelical faith, for instance, can be thought of as a small branch out on a limb called Christianity which is attached to a huge tree called religion. The debate should start by settling the question of which Christianity represents true Christianity in our world today. Then too today’s Christian faith bears little resemblance to the theologies and the ethics of the Christianities in the past, and it will bear little resemblance to future Christianities because the Christian faith is like a chameleon, ever changing with the progression of knowledge. But once that debate between Christians is settled, if that’s even remotely possible, the next debate is between Christianity and all other religions on the planet. I claim evangelicals cannot win the first debate, much less the second one. Cultural anthropologist Dr. David Eller is right: “Nothing is more destructive to religion than other religions; it is like meeting one’s own anti-matter twin.” (p. 233).

Nonetheless, if after having investigated your religious faith with the presumption of skepticism it passes intellectual muster, then you can have your religious faith. It’s that simple. If not, abandon it like I did. I suspect that if someone is willing to take the challenge of the outsider test, then her religious faith will be found defective and she will abandon it along with all other religious faiths, like it has me.

Answering Six Major Objections:

One: Religious believers will all object that the OTF does not show their particular religion to be false simply because it’s an overwhelming sociological fact that we believe based upon when and where we were born. William Lane Craig asks, “How does the mere presence of religious worldviews incompatible with Christianity show that distinctively Christian claims are not true? Logically, the existence of multiple, incompatible truth claims only implies that all of them cannot be (objectively) true; but it would be obviously fallacious to infer that not one of them is (objectively) true.” He’s right about this, as are Muslims and Mormons who can say the same thing with regard to their respective faiths. After all, someone can be right if for no other reason than that she just got lucky to be born when and where she did.

But how do you rationally justify such luck? This is why I’ve developed the challenge of the outsider test in the first place, to test religious faiths against such luck. If the test between religious faiths is based entirely on luck, then what are the chances, based on luck alone, that the particular sect within Christian theism that one adheres to is correct?

Two. It’s objected that there are small minorities of people who choose to be Christian theists who were born and raised in Muslim countries and that people can escape their culturally adopted faith. This is true. But these are the exceptions. Christian theists respond by asking me to explain the exceptions. I’m asking them to explain the rule. Why do religious beliefs dominate in specific geographical areas? Why is that?

When it comes to these converts, my opinion is that most of them do not objectively weigh the evidence when making their initial religious commitments. They mainly change their minds due to the influence and believability of the evangelist and/or the wondrous nature of the religious story itself. They have no initial way of truly investigating the proffered faith. Which evangelist will objectively tell the ugly side of the Bible and of the Church while preaching the good news? None that I know of. Which evangelist will tell a prospect about the innumerable problems that Christian scholars like yourselves wrestle with in meetings like this? None that I know of. Which evangelist will give a prospect a copy of a book like mine along with a copy of a Christian apologetics book, and ask her to read them both before making a decision? Again, none that I know of.

Three. It’s objected that merely because rational people disagree about something does not justify skepticism about a particular claim. On the contrary, I think it can and it does. The amount of skepticism warranted depends on the criteria I mentioned earlier. Rational people don’t bet against gravity, for instance, because there is evidence for it that was learned apart from what she was taught to believe in a geographically distinct location. She can personally test it. I’m claiming religious beliefs are in a different category than the results of repeatable scientific experiments, and that this claim is both obvious and non-controversial. Skepticism is best expressed on a continuum, anyway. Some belief claims will warrant more skepticism than others. I’m claiming that religious beliefs warrant probably the highest skepticism given the sociological facts. At the risk of offending believers here, religious beliefs, like beliefs in the Elves of Iceland, the trolls of Norway, and the power of witches in Africa, must be subjected to the highest levels of skepticism given both the extraordinary nature of these claims and how some of these beliefs are adopted in the first place.

Four. Someone may object that my argument is self-defeating. They’ll ask: “Do my cultural conditions overwhelmingly ‘determine’ my presumption of skepticism? If so, then, as Alvin Plantinga questions, are my beliefs “produced by an unreliable belief-producing process” too? If not, then why do I think I can transcend culture but a Christian theist can’t transcend her culture?” In answer I think it’s extremely difficult to transcend our culture because, as I mentioned before, it provides us with the very eyes we use to see with. But precisely because we know from anthropological and psychological studies that this is what culture does to us, it’s possible to transcend the culture we were raised in.

[Example] We know that people do not truly see or hear reality as it is. What we see is filtered by our eyes. What we hear is filtered by our ears. We see and hear only a very limited amount of data in the world. But if we saw and heard the whole electromagnetic and sonic spectra we’d basically see and hear white noise. We know this even though we can’t actually see or hear the white noise for ourselves. We also know that the ground we walk on is moving like a swarm of bees on the microscopic level. So it’s this scientific knowledge about the world which leads us to be skeptical about that which we see and hear.

The same thing is can be said when it comes to anthropological and psychological studies that show we should be skeptical of that which we were led to believe, even though we can’t actually see anything about our beliefs to be skeptical about. And the OTF is as sure of a test as we can come up with to examine our culturally adopted beliefs.

The truth is that my argument is not self-defeating at all. It suggests we should doubt what we believe. It’s not self-defeating to say the odds are that we are wrong. After all, we’re talking about the odds here. Agnostic philosopher J. L. Schellenberg deals with this same type of criticism in these words: “Now this objection can be sound only if my arguments do indeed apply to themselves, and it will not take much to see that they do not.” For there is a huge difference between defending a religious set of beliefs as the one and only correct set, and denying that a set of religious beliefs is justified. His claim is that the adherents of any given religious set of beliefs “have not successfully made their case; it bides us to continue investigation . . . because skepticism is always a position of last resort in truth seeking contexts.”

Five. In arguing that one’s religious faith is overwhelmingly adopted by the “accidents of birth,” have I committed the informal genetic fallacy of irrelevance? This fallacy is committed whenever it’s argued that a belief is false because of the origination of the belief.

I don’t think the genetic fallacy is as much of a big deal as people think it is, especially in religious contexts. If someone has a paranoid belief about the CIA spying on him and we find that the genesis (or origin) of his belief comes from him taking a hallucinogenic drug like L.S.D., then we have some really good evidence to be skeptical of his paranoid belief, even though we have not actually shown his belief to be false in any other way, and even though by doing so someone could say we have committed the genetic fallacy. So in a like manner if we can determine that the origins of the earliest Christianities were created purely by ancient superstitious human beings, we have good grounds for skepticism. But even more to the point, if all of our beliefs are completely determined by our environment then that’s the case regardless of the fact that by arguing for this it commits the genetic fallacy.

Still, there is no genetic fallacy here unless by explaining how believers first adopt their faith I therefore conclude that such a faith is false. I’m not arguing that these faiths are false because of how believers originally adopted them. I’m merely arguing believers should be skeptical of their culturally adopted religious faith because of how they first adopted them.

Six. One final objection asks whether this is all circular. Have I merely chosen a different metaphysical belief system based upon different cultural factors? I deny this, for I have very good initial grounds for starting out with skepticism based upon the sociological, anthropological and psychological facts. Methodological procedures are those tests we use to investigate something. How we go about investigating something is a separate issue that must be justified on its own terms, and I have done so here. Someone cannot say of the outsider test that I ought to be just as skeptical of it as I am about the conclusions I arrive at when I apply the test, since I have justified this test from the facts. One must first dispute the outsider test on its own terms.

Isn't God's Creation Wonderful? Praise Jesus!

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Predation in the wild. Poisonous creatures. Parasites. Such a perfectly good God you have there. NOT!







Parasites.

Christianity’s Living Core is Theological Argumentation and Not Miracles

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This is how The Truth Once Delivered to the Saints was handled:

Jesus argues with his parents. (Luke 2: 44 - 50 & John 2: 1 - 4)

Jesus argues with the Pharisees, Sadducees and Scribes.

Jesus argues with the common Jewish people he came to teach.

Jesus argues with the Apostles.

The Apostles argue among themselves.

The Jerusalem Jewish Jesus sect (under James and Peter) argue with the Hellenists.

Paul argues in his letters against Peter.

Paul argues with unnamed Judaizers and boasts that he only preaches the truth in his churches.

Paul argues with Barnabas and John Mark ending with their splits.

The Early Church Fathers argue amongst themselves over who is really orthodox and who is heretical.

The Western Christians argue with the Eastern Christians over dogmas and who is really the true Church; ending in a split forming the Roman Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox traditions.

Catholic Monastic Orders argue, fight (in some cases kill members of the other Orders) and split into new traditions under the Pope.

Luther argues with the Catholic Church labeling the Pope as the Anti-Christ and splits.

Calvin argues with the Catholic Church and with Luther and splits.

Henry VIII argues with the Pope ending in a split and starting the Church of England.

Puritans argue with both Catholics and Protestants and sail to the New World to get freedom of religious truth: But only as they themselves under stand Biblical truth.

Once the issue of freedom of religion was established in the United States, the “Made in American” new Christian religions argued their way into existence: Mormons, Seventh Day Adventist and Christian Science.

The five present day Book of Mormon sects attack and argue with each other. The Branch Davidians split off from and argue with the regular Adventist Church and the Christian Science argues with Unity Christianity.

Alexander Campbell travels the early 19th century United States and argues with the established Christian sects and churches over Biblical orthodox truth starting the Campbellites.

Christian Fundamentalist argue with Christian Liberals.

The King James 1611 Version (The Textus Receptus) group argue and debate with Westcott - Hort's eclectic Greek text.

For the last 2,000 years, Christianity has survived by argumentation and its so called debate to established the real orthodox Christian truth.

Based on its cantankerous tradition, it is little wonder that the Dark Ages commenced after Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the Rome Empire.

People such as JP Holding, Joe Hinman, Jason, District Super. Harvey Burnett and many Christians who stop by DC to challenge postings are simply only doing what the earliest New Testament traditions (The Pauline Corpus) demand that should be done: The argumentation of the illusive orthodox Christian truth.

In my next post, I’ll present a radical new thesis as to how Christianity was born and why, by its very nature, it is so argumentative.

What About the "Experience" of a Miracle?

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I received an email that asked me what I thought about experiences of miracles. Can I explain them away? What do I think about these claims? Here's the email and my response:
Many people say they have experienced the supernatural - receiving a miracle, hearing God speak to them, etc. Pastors such as Mark Driscoll write about their experience with prophetic dreams, seeing demonic attacks, etc. (His book "Confessions of a Reformission Rev detail these things). I have a friend who goes to a Christian school, and tells of the time they prayed for a girl with a broken foot - the next day, it was healed. She didn't have to wear her cast anymore, she was walking fine, etc.

It would be easiest to say that they are lying, making these stories up - but I know my friend, and have no reason to think he would make up a story like that (He's not charismatic, and has never claimed to have seen any other "miracles"). Additionally, I have verified this story of the "healed foot" - everyone claims it really happened. Still, it's tough for me to fully trust this, as I have never personally seen this kind of supernatural event take place.

Obviously, people from other religions claim to experience this too - it doesn't seem to be limited to Christianity, although the large majority of miraculous stories/healings are found in the Christian faith. Would you tend to believe that most/all of these experiences are fictional?

Honestly, at this point in my journey, I just want to know the truth - which is what drew me to you, as I know you are after truth as well. I'm sure you have thought about the claims of supernatural experience, so if you could offer any insight into this area, I would greatly appreciate it.
In part here is my response:

I'm not an answer man. There are mysteries to life, true, and precisely because they exist there will always be room for faith. So I usually tell them that if I had the same experience they had then I would probably believe too. The question is why I don't? I do know that people count the hits and discount the misses, and that people of faith want to see a miracle, which might incline them to see one. I also tell people that even as a Pentecostal in my former years I never saw a miracle and that's all I can say about my personal experiences, for if God didn't supply one then, why should I expect him to now?

I also ask them why God does these miracles for some people and not for others who die miserable deaths. And then I ask why people of other faiths also report these kinds of things.

On religious experiences read this.

On faith healers you must see this documentary!

On the power of brain manipulation you must see this from Derren Brown (I recommend episodes 2-4 especially).

--------------
I hope this helps, and I hope others who are troubled by these kinds of unexplained phenomena look through each of the links provided above to decide for themselves.

I Get These Kinds of Emails at Least Once a Week Now:

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Hi John, I wanted to thank you for your site. I have been a Christian for several years now, and stumbled upon your site. Quite honestly, it really rocked my world – I had thought the Christian apologetics that had been taught to me answered every question that non-believers could pose, and left no room for doubt. However, after spending hours on your site and then reading your book, it is extremely obvious to me that the case against Christianity is far stronger than the one that supports it.

Don't Visit DC Unless "You are Prepared for Serious Attacks on Your Faith"

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So says Mike over at Ransomed Heart. He also said DC's arguments are presented in such a way "so as to actually shake my faith." But he still believes anyway because he has a relationship with his triune God, something rational argumentation apparently cannot touch.

Really? Come on now believers. Does this not remind you of a little girl who has an imaginary friend and believes her friend exists no matter what we say to her? It's like these Christian believers were raised in a cloistered monastery or something. Have they never ever met people who say the same things about Allah or the Jewish Yahweh, or the Mormon God, the Jehovah's Witnesses God, or Native American spiritual forces, or the Hindu God? Where do these Christian people live who reject arguments in favor of such a relationship? I'm serious. Do they actually have jobs where they must rub shoulders next to other people who say they have a relationship with a different god, one of over 2,500 deities of the world? Atheism Blog informs us that at least 500 of these deities are dead, where we also read:
J.L. Schellenberg argues that the odds are always going to favor the conclusion that your view is wrong in this situation. There are just too many other gods out there that undermine the probability that you’ve got the right one.
Now did he just present an argument?

You betcha he did.

David Wilkerson Predicts Mayhem Will Soon be in the Streets of NYC.

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David Wilkerson is the author of The Cross and the Switchblade, one of the most popular books in evangelical history. (It's ranked #32 in Christianity Today's list of "Top 50 Books That Have Shaped Evangelicals.") On March 7, Wilkerson posted an "urgent message". It began:
AN EARTH-SHATTERING CALAMITY IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN. IT IS GOING TO BE SO FRIGHTENING, WE ARE ALL GOING TO TREMBLE — EVEN THE GODLIEST AMONG US. For ten years I have been warning about a thousand fires coming to New York City. It will engulf the whole megaplex, including areas of New Jersey and Connecticut. Major cities all across America will experience riots and blazing fires — such as we saw in Watts, Los Angeles, years ago.

There will be riots and fires in cities worldwide. There will be looting — including Times Square, New York City. What we are experiencing now is not a recession, not even a depression. We are under God's wrath.
Then at the end he wrote:
Note: I do not know when these things will come to pass, but I know it is not far off. I have unburdened my soul to you. Do with the message as you choose.
Wait just a minute! Why pick on major cities here? Why not some small towns instead? And doesn't this already describe certain streets in NYC anyway? Besides, why are preachers like him so interested in a doom and gloom message? Is it that they are secretly upset at Americans and want them to suffer and die? Is it to raise money? Is there some correlation with a rise in gifts when the message is one of doom and gloom?

But how can we hold Wilkerson's face to the floor on this prediction? Is it too vague to do so? The subtitle says that "An Earth-Shattering Calamity Is About To Happen." Earth shattering? I'm sure we would all recognize this if it happened, right? Is the time limit for the prediction too vague? Why is this an "urgent" message if the events are not to happen for another year? What does the word "urgent" in "urgent message" mean? And if it does not happen in Wilkerson's lifetime will the Christian community rise up as one and denouce him as a false prophet?

Ha, ha. I know the answers. This would be sad if it weren't so damn funny. As far as I know if we just laugh hard enough at him we may find Wilkerson and some members of his church secretly trying to start these fires and looting themselves just to get the ball rolling!

The Relationship of the Bible to the Christian Faith: Indispensable?

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There is no such thing as Christianity. There are only Christianities, local ones, which operate in local settings. Need I remind you how many branches there are around the world?

As I've said, I left my faith behind when I could no longer believe the Bible. It was a process that began with the recognition that the stories in Genesis 1-11 were nothing more nor less than mythic folktales.

My faith was an evangelical Christian faith, one that believes what the Bible says. So when I could no longer believe the Bible I could no longer believe. It was that simple to me.

The interesting thing about this is that liberal and Catholic Christians will hear my story and pretty much scoff at me, since their faith is not based upon the historical accuracy of the Bible. I find that strange, very strange. But they don't. They claim that if I started out with the correct faith to begin with I wouldn't have left the fold later when my faith in the Bible was shattered.

This is an interesting argument, one I completely reject, since I don't understand why I should believe the community of believers when the stories they preach are not founded on the historical truth. But I raise the issue here. Is the relationship of the Bible to the Christian faith, indispensable?

As an atheist I'm not in the business of settling "in-house" arguments between Christians, and this is one of those type of arguments, one of many. Although, I do think the conservatives have this right.

I'll Be Speaking at the Mid-West Regional Meeting of The Evangelical Philosophical Society

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That's right! The EPS meets in conjunction with the ETS where I'll be presenting and defending my Outsider Test for Faith in the midst of these Christian scholars. They meet at Ashand Theological Seminary on March 20-21st (next weekend!), and I'll be speaking Friday at 11:40 AM. I'd love to meet readers of this blog. I'll be the first atheist invited to speak at such a meeting, so as you'd guess, I'm both excited and a bit nervous.

Could This Be True, That William Lane Craig "Would Not Jump at the Opportunity" to Debate Me?

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Here's an email I received from an admirer of my work:
I would pay whatever the cover charge would be to see you and William Lane Craig have a two hour debate! I can readily see why he would NOT jump at the opportunity.
Could this be true? Naw, not for a second.

Churches Headed for Collapse

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With recent reports that more Americans say they have no religion -- now comes this prediction: Evangelicalism on the outs, says author Jim Brown.


Also:
A Christian writer is predicting a "major collapse of evangelical Christianity" to occur within ten years.

Christian blogger Michael Spencer says evangelicalism as it is known in the West is "bloated and hyper-inflated" and will soon collapse because of its emphasis on the culture war and affiliation with the Republican Party. According to Spencer, many people who are identifying themselves as evangelicals are not at all sold on the evangelical version of personal discipleship and commitment to Jesus Christ.

He expects about half of evangelical churches will die off in the next 25 to 30 years due to generational reasons or because their members become more attracted to a secular version of life.
(OneNewsNow - 3/12/2009)

"We are on the verge – within 10 years – of a major collapse of evangelical Christianity."

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So says evangelical Michael Spencer. See Link. The new emerging Christianity, if this happens as predicted, is what I meant when I said Christianity simply reinvents itself in every generation.

HT Russ

Apostates and the Trust Factor

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I've written about the fear factor earlier. Christians and atheists fear for the future if one side dominates the landscape. Now let me write about the trust factor. We don't trust each other to be truthful and objective with the evidence. Red flags go up whenever the other side makes an argument because we don't trust each other's research nor their authors. On each side of the fence we think the other side distorts its facts to fit their preconceived conclusions.

That’s why Ed Babinski has argued that if we do a great deal of reading we will eventually read an author just a little to the left of us, perhaps in college as part of a research project. While this author may be outside our comfort zone he’s not so far out there that we can't give him some kind of benefit of the doubt. Then if he convinces us we’ll read a book he recommends which might be to the left of him. This process takes place slowly if at all. That’s the process by which I learned to reject my Christian faith. It wasn’t because I read the atheist literature, although I read a few of their books, it was because I continued to read book after book by Christian authors who were more theologically liberal than the previous one. It was Christian scholarship that eventually caused the downfall of my faith. And their books were books that didn’t throw up the red flags because they were only a step to the left of me rather than being way over on the other side of the intellectual universe.

When it comes to the trust factor there is one type of person who stands in the gap between atheists and Christians. It's the apostate; whether it’s a former Christian who became an atheist, or a former atheist who became a Christian. The impact of their apostasy has more of an effect when we personally know them, but it does have a general impact on the other side anyway, especially the more well-known the person is.

These apostates are usually not liked by the side they left because they are an embarrassment to them. Since apostates have some kind of credibility the opposing side tries to discredit them. That’s probably one of the reasons why the team members here at DC are personally attacked so much. The attempt is to discredit us in one way or another so believers can write us off. It makes them feel better. It lets them sleep at night. It reassures them that the problem wasn’t with the faith at all, but rather that the problem was us.

Okay, I guess.

My view is that people just change their minds from time to time, that’s all. We do this about a myriad of issues throughout our lives. Why should it be different with regard to religious or non-religious beliefs? We don’t ever need to attack the apostate who leaves our side for the other side. I don't do this. People are people and they believe for different reasons, that’s all.

To Respond or Not to Respond; That is the Question

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From time to time a friend will send me a link to a site that attempts to deal with an argument of mine. I'm glad people are thinking and attempting to deal with my arguments, of course. But some of these sites are filled with so many obvious straw man type arguments, non-sequiturs, either/or fallacies, and/or ad hominems that it amazes me these writers actually think they've considered my arguments at all. I don't think this is just a matter of believers who are blinded by their faith, although that's certainly a factor. It's that they cannot think. There are rules for thinking critically and these people cannot do it.

In any case, when I see these types of sites I figure it won't do any good to respond because if they couldn't think critically in their first post they won't be able to do so a second time in response to my comment.

The "Best Book Ever Produced" on Evolution.

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That's what Michael Shermer says of Donald Prothero's book Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why It Matters, in his latest eskeptic. He wrote...
The claims of the Intelligent Design creationists are brilliantly encapsulated and devastatingly dismantled by the geologist and paleontologist Donald Prothero in the best book ever produced on the subject. In particular, Prothero’s visual presentation of the fossil and genetic evidence for evolution is so unmistakably powerful that I venture to say that no one could read this book and still deny the reality of evolution. It happened. Deal with it.

The Fear Factor: Are Atheists and Christians Fearful of the Future Should the Other Side Win This Cultural War?

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I hear this coming from Christians, that they fear for their future if atheism gains more political influence, as I do coming from atheists concerning the Christian influence in our society. Are these fears justified? Can we all right now decide to commit ourselves to the separation of churches and state in advance of who wins this cultural war? Will that help assuage our respective fears? In hopes this could help I do. I strongly affirm the separation of churches and state. And although atheism is not a church nor a religion I strongly affirm that there should be no anti-religious test for state office and that no one should teach or affirm atheism in our schools, nor that words like "We Are a Godless Nation" replace the words "In God We Trust" on our currency (even if we would remove the present words off our bills), etc. etc.

Why I Left Christianity

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While I was quite young my mother began taking me and my other siblings to an inner city Southern Baptist mission. At the age of twelve I went to a religious summer camp by invitation of one of my Junior High school teachers. It was at this camp that I “accepted” Christ and first professed Christianity. I continued attending the Baptist mission until I was 17 when I realized that I was not living the Christian life that I professed. I then dedicated my life to being a consistent Christian and became intensely interested in theology.

At this early stage of my life I went through a number of theological changes and transitions. I moved from dispensationalism to amillennialism, Arminianism to Calvinism and embraced the tenets of Landmarkism. For those interested Landmarkism is a branch of the Baptist family that sees itself as the true heirs not only of the Baptist faith, but of the apostolic faith. Landmarkism and Landmarkers believe they can trace their churches back through the centuries of Christian history back to the apostles. They call it Baptist Church Succession or chain link successionism. This viewpoint was popular among Baptists of the 19th century but has many holdovers still today.

I was with the Landmark Baptists for about 20 years and even created a website dedicated to defending the basic ideas of Calvinistic Landmarkism. During this time my theological views continued to develop and change. My views of the church (and Landmarkism in general) began to moderate, so for example, I came to reject the chain link succession view and instead I embraced the concept of a “spiritual kinship.” I also rejected tithing which is very popular among most Baptists of all types. Although many of my theological views tended to moderate, some on the other hand became more hardened such as my Calvinism. I found the concepts preached by the Protestant Reformed Church and Gordon Clark very interesting and couldn’t deny their logic. I was drawn to their double predestinarianism, superlapsarianism, denial of the free offer of the gospel, and their emphasis on rationality and reasoning.

Although I remained with the Landmarkers for 20 years it was during the last two to three of those years that I came to fully reject their views. Instead I embraced “house church” theology and ecclesiology as I found it to be very scriptural and aligned very well with the way many scholars conceived of the early church. The problem for me was that I could not find any house churches in my area that were Calvinistic as most were typically Arminian and Charismatic.

Around the year 2000 I had found a strong Calvinistc group that met in my area where the guy pastoring the group was sympathetic to many of the house church concepts. After some reluctance I finally visited the group and then joined them and remained with them for over 8 years. The thing that sets this group apart from the ones that I had been in contact with in the past was their emphasis on the work of Christ (understood from a strictly Calvinistic perspective) and the doctrine of Justification by imputed righteousness. For them these were the heart of the gospel message so much so that they denied a person was truly a Christian if they did not hold to them. They had no problem with the idea that all Arminians were lost and even traced their “true” conversion to the Christian faith to when they embraced these views. Any religious faith before then was defined as false religion holding to a false gospel. And yes, I did embrace these viewpoints as well because they made sense to me. Oddly enough it was during my time with this group that I also embraced evangelical egalitarianism.

This should give you enough information about my theological background to give you an idea of where I came from and the direction of where I was headed.

One of the things that I have always been very interested in since I first became theologically aware was Christian apologetics. I have read numerous books on different topics from young earth creationism, to the inerrancy and reliability of the Bible, to the existence of God and the resurrection of Christ.

About two years ago I was studying a number of related topics: the historicity of the Old Testament, the creation account in Genesis, and the age of the cosmos. It was during these studies that the evidence for an ancient earth became so strong that I could no longer deny it. Of course this led to a number of questions related to Genesis, the flood, Adam and Eve, and creation and evolution. Having been taught young earth creationism all of my life this was quite shocking to me. This led to my restudying the historicity of the Old Testament, especially the early chapters of Genesis, and this in turn opened the whole question of biological origins. These studies and four books in particular are what led to my rejection of the Christian faith.

These four books changed my whole perspective on the Bible and biological origins so I want to briefly mention each one and some of the arguments that they contain. All are written by evangelical Christians who still hold to some form of conservative Christianity.

The first of the books was Peter Enns, Inspiration and Incarnation: Evangelicals and the Problem of the Old Testament. Much of what Enns is saying corresponds to a lot of what other Old Testament scholars like Paul Seeley have been writing about: in order to understand the Old Testament we need to understand its background. The literature of the ancient near east has a huge impact on understanding and interpreting the Old Testament whether we are talking about the creation account, the Noahic flood, or the wisdom, or prophetic literature. There is also the amount of theological diversity within the Old Testament that can be found between the different authors, books, and time periods that are often contradictory. There is also the issue of how the New Testament authors understand and interpret the Old Testament using first century Jewish hermeneutical principles that we would reject today.

The next book that had a major impact on my thinking was Coming to Peace with Science by Darrel R. Falk. This is the first pro-evolution book that I had ever read and once I finished it I was thoroughly convinced. Evolution is not what most Christians make it to be and the evidence for it is overwhelming. Some of the things that Falk brings up include the evidence for an ancient universe that can be accurately measured using radiometric dating. I had always been taught to not trust this dating method but Falk shows that we can indeed believe its results. The distribution of fossils in the fossil record corresponds to the evolution of life, from single celled organism, to multicellular life, to the vast array of life forms that we see today. There is the evidence of organisms with transitional features such as Pakicetus and Archaeopyeryx and the various fossil series such as the whale and the horse series. There is also the evidence from the geographical distribution of life and DNA. And these are just the tip of the iceberg.

Another book that clinched it for me in favor of evolution was Stephen Godfrey and Christopher Smith’s book Paradigms on Pilgrimage: Creationism, Paleontology, and Biblical Interpretation. What Falk did for biology, these guys do for paleontology. The evidence of fossil footprints and various other types of trace fossils at various levels of sediment blow “flood geology” out of the water. The natural history of life that is recorded in the sediments is easily explained by evolution, but cannot be done by any form of creationism.

The fourth book was God’s Word in Human Words: An Evangelical Appropriation of Critical Biblical Scholarship by Kenton Sparks. By the time that I read this one I had already rejected inerrancy and was looking for a way to still hold to the Bible as some form of God’s word. Sparks does want to maintain the inspiration of the Bible but most evangelicals would not agree with his explanation and besides the evidence he brings forth is just too overwhelming against it. It is simply a fact that most evangelical scholars do not deal seriously with biblical criticism and Sparks calls them on the carpet over and over again. Some of these critical problems include the close similarity of the ancient near eastern literature with the Old Testament which needs to be adequately assimilated by evangelical scholarship. There are serious problems with the Pentateuch such as authorship (it is pretty much a consensus that Moses did not write much, if any, of it), its chronology, theological diversity, and historicity. There are the questions of the historicity of Exodus, and more generally Israelite historiography. There are multiple issues with the prophets including their message, content and failed prophecies. Take Daniel for example, the evidence is that it was written around 175-164 BCE and that the four kingdoms prophesied where Babylon, Media, Persian, and Greece (and not the traditional Babylon, Medo-Persian, Greek and Rome) and that the author thought that the kingdom of God would break in to destroy Antiochus but that his prophecy failed. In the New Testament there is the issue of the liberty that the Gospel writers take in presenting their stories and the flawed hermeneutics used by the New Testament writers in general. Again, this is just the tip of the iceberg.

By the time I finished reading the book by Sparks I sat down and realized that there was nothing left for me to believe. The overwhelming evidence for biological evolution, the natural history of the world, and the historical critical problems with the Bible left me dumb founded. I came to the conclusion that I was no longer a Christian and that I had to reject the faith that I had believed, loved and cherished for so long. I now consider myself an agnostic but am very suspicious that atheism is probably true and am leaning more and more in that direction.

I am still very interested in things related to religion in general and Christianity in particular as it helps me to see where I was, where I am now and to be more equipped at discussing these things with Christians who are still locked into their false hope.

Calvinist Professors Are Targeted at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary

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"I will say," president Patterson said, "that Southwestern will not build a school in the future around anybody who could not look anybody in the world in the eyes and say, 'Christ died for your sins.'" Link. As I've irreverantly said before for other reasons Calvinism is Bullshit.

More Poll Data on Unbelief

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Given the Poll Data that was recently released where we learn 15% of Americans have no religion, former team member "d" cataloged other Poll Data in the last few years on unbelief:


Faith is Not an Acceptable Answer

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We’ve argued against the concept of faith many times before, but let me try again. I have argued that the Christian faith originated as a purely human religion completely accountable by humans acting in history without needing any divine agency at all. But setting that important discussion aside, faith is a cop out, especially when it comes to the number of things Christians must take on faith in order to believe. Let’s recount some of them.

1) No reasonable answer can be given for why a triune God, who was perfect in love neither needing nor wanting anything, created in the first place. Grace and Love are non-answers, especially when we see the actual world that resulted. For Christians to say God wanted human creatures who freely love him is nonsense, for why did he want this at all? If love must be expressed then God needed to express his love and that implies a lack.

2) It’s hard enough to conceive of one person who is an eternally uncaused God, much less a Godhead composed of three eternally uncaused persons. There are some Christians who maintain the Father eternally created the Logos and the Spirit, while others claim that three persons in one Godhead is simply an eternally brute inexplicable fact. Why is that brute fact more reasonable to accept than accepting the brute fact of the laws of the universe, which is all that’s needed to produce the universe? There are social Trinitarians and anti-social Trinitarians. Both sides accuse the other side of abandoning the Chalcedon creed, either in the direction of tri-theism, or in the direction of unitarianism.

3) This triune Godhead is also conceived of as a timeless being who was somehow able to create the first moment of time. How a timeless being could actually do this is extremely problematic. For if his decision to create a first moment of time is an eternal one, then there could be no temporal gap between his decision to create the first moment of time and the actual creation of the first moment of time. If there was no temporal gap between God's eternal decision to create a first moment of time and the creation of that first moment, then his decision to create would alone be sufficient for a first moment of time to be created. God could not eternally decide to create at any future point since there is no future point for him to create. So if a timelessly eternal God decided to create at all then the universe is eternal and never had a first moment in time.

4) This timelessly eternal triune God who parodoxically created time must now forever be subject to events in time. He cannot become timeless again, for to do so would destroy all that happened in time as if these events never happened at all. So although God somehow existed outside of time before creating the first moment of time he must now forever experience a sequence of events. Whereas before creation he was a timelessly existing being he is now going to forever experience a sequence of events that is never ending.

From here it only gets worse.

5) We are told that the Logos, the 2nd person of the trinity, became a man. No conception of this God-man in the flesh has yet been able to stand scrutiny. How, for instance, can such a being be 100% God and 100% man with nothing left over? All attempts to solve this problem have failed.

6) But we’re not done, for we’re told this God-man atoned for the sins of man. No sense can be made of how the death of Jesus actually forgives sins. There is no relationship between punishment and forgiveness at all. We forgive people who have not been punished and sometimes we won’t forgive people even after they've been punished. To say that in order to forgive someone they must first be punished does not describe forgiveness at all, anyway. It describes revenge. Revenge can never be a moral reason for acting and revenge has nothing to do with offering forgiveness. We don't even need for people to ask forgiveness in order to forgive them. Sometimes it's better for our mental health to forgive someone regardless of whether or not they're even sorry for what they've done.

7) This God-man was a unique never-before-existing being who is described in the creeds as one unified person. Here an additional problem surfaces. Where is the human side of this God-man now (i.e. the human nature of Jesus)? Since this human side of the God-man was sinless he couldn’t be destroyed, nor could this human side of the God-man be separated from the divine side, for such a being was now one person according to the creeds. So theologians have concluded that the trinity includes an embodied Logos. Now we have a trinity with an embodied 2nd person in it. Picture this if you will!

8) Stepping forward a bit, sinners sent to hell retain their free will, since it’s argued they continue to rebel in hell, while the saints who enter heaven have their free will taken away to guarantee there will be no future rebellion in heaven. If free will is such a great gift why reward people by taking it away from them and punish people by having them retain it? That makes little sense to me.

I’ve only touched on a few of the beliefs needed to make sense of Christianity. There are many others, and some Christians have different scenarios. But who in their right mind would embrace Christianity if he or she heard about them all when first being challenged to believe? Very few people. That’s what I think.

But we’re not done yet. For there is the additional problem of the lack of evidence for these beliefs. Archaeology disconfirms the flood and Exodus stories. What we have are the claims of people who wrote the books that later were accepted into the Bible. Why should I believe what they wrote? Why should I believe that the sun stood still, or that a star pointed down to a specific place, or that a virgin gave birth, or that a man walked on the water just because of what a person in the superstitious past wrote? Even in the Bible itself we see how the people of that same era believed in the actions of gods and goddesses like Apollo, Zeus, Baal, Artemis, and others, which hardly anyone accepts today. So why do Christians accept one set of claims in the past but reject the others? The same evidence supports them all: Testimonies by superstitious people in the past.

Christians must defend too many beliefs, any one of which, if incorrect, would be fatal to their whole worldview. These beliefs are based upon the conclusions of historical evidence which is extremely problematic given the nature of that evidence and the nature of the superstitious pre-scientific people in the ancient past.

Christians must defend things like the existence of the social Trinitarian God (versus an anti-social Trinitarian God) of the Bible (which had a long process of formation and of borrowing material from others) who never began to exist and will never cease to exist (even though everything we experience has a beginning and an end), who never learned any new truths, who does not think (for thinking demands weighing temporal alternatives), who is not free with respect to deciding his own nature, who revealed himself through a poor medium (history) in a poor era (ancient times), who condemns all of humanity for the sins of the first human pair, who commanded genocide, who allows intense suffering in this world (yet does not follow the same moral code he commands believers to follow), whose Son (the 2nd person of the trinity) became incarnate in Jesus (even though no one has ever made sense of a person who is 100% man and 100% divine) to be punished for our sins (even though there is no correlation between punishment and forgiveness) who subsequently bodily arose from the dead (even though the believer in miracles has an almost impossible double-burden of proof here) and now lives embodied forever in a “spiritual” human body who will return to earth in the parousia (even though the NT is clear that the end of all kingdoms and the establishment of God's kingdom was to be in their generation), who sent the 3rd person of the trinity to lead his followers into "all truth" (yet fails in every generation to do this), who will also judge us based upon what conclusions we reach about the existence of this God and what he has done (paralleling the ancient barbaric thought police), and who will reward believers by taking away their freedom and punish the dammed by letting them retain their freedom?

Since the larger the claim is the less probable it is, the Christian faith is simply too improbable to be believed by reasonable people. Period.

Proof Positive that ONLY Christians Can Have Morals and Ethics!

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Time and time again we atheists at DC are sternly informed that, without God, we atheists have no base at all for morals and ethics which can ONLY come from God alone.

Well, as they say: “The Devil is in the Details!”

Police Arrest Pastor for Allegedly Setting Fire to His Own Church
Church Previously Vandalized On Several Occasions


Anderson, SC
Monday afternoon, Rev. Christopher Daniels, who is from Belton, was charged with second-degree arson. His bond was set at $25,000.
The State Law Enforcement Division has joined the Anderson County Sheriff's Office in the investigation.
In recent months, there have been incidents of graffiti and vandalism in the church that are still under investigation.
Investigators said Blue Ridge Baptist was targeted by vandals four times at the end of 2008.
In mid-December, gang symbols and hate-filled messages were left in the church's Sunday school building.
Earlier that month, the same thing was done to the classrooms downstairs.
Rev. Daniels is being investigated by the State Law Enforcement Division also as a suspect in the earlier vandalisms which caused over $20,000 worth of damage to the chruch.


More Americans Say They Have No Religion.

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This is according to an Associated Press story from a recent poll. Link. According to a Washington Post story "15 percent of Americans have no religion" and "the percentage of Americans who call themselves Christians has dropped dramatically over the past two decades." The actual survey can be found here, but I haven't read through it yet. We are slowly winning...very slowly. Everyone who has ever spoken out has been a part of this slow trend.

The Blasphemy Board Game

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This board game created by Steve Jaqua will be used by the CFI Michigan group for a night of fun for the whole family this Wednesday. It looks interesting. Be sure to click on the small FAQ link at the bottom. Your aim is to convince others that you are the genuine Jesus. To do this your Jesus must give stirring sermons, perform miracles, attract devoted followers, and make every effort to discredit his rivals. In the end, he must get himself killed. That's when you win the game. What? That's Blasphemy!

I Think Christianity is a Cult.

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Here's a ten part essay on cults, including how they recruit, how cult members are deprogrammed, and so forth. I think most Christianities are cults from the various descriptions I read there. What d'ya think?

Finally, a Book that Educates the Masses: A Review of Bart D. Ehrman's Book, Jesus Interrupted

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You can find my review of Bart D. Ehrman's book Jesus Interrupted, by following this link and then scrolling down on the page. If you find it helpful I'd appreciate a "yes" vote on the review. There's also a button next to my name that says "see all my reviews." Click on it if you want to read some other book reviews I've written, two pages of them.

Eyewitness: How Accurate Is Visual Memory?

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Although the earliest Gospel of Mark was conservatively written over 40 years after the life and death of Jesus and, although these stories circulated in various oral traditions for decades by people who were to illiterate to give these narratives some form of textual stability; major Christian apologists assure us that, other than some minor textual problems that probably were added by careless scribes copying the text, the originals are very trustworthy accounts of what the Historical Jesus really said and did. But is this really the case at all?

Below are two links from CBS’s 60 Minutes that reveal the problems and deception of eyewitness accounts and how they can not be trusted.

Exclusive: The Bunny Effect

Manufacturing Memories

How Human Reasoning Makes Or Breaks the Biblical God of Miracles

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When it comes to Biblical faith, the Bible is equal to a chemical catalyst (a substance that increases the rate of a chemical reaction without itself undergoing any change). By this I mean that if the Christian believer has the will to believe, then this person also has the ability to explain away exactly why either God or prayer fails to work, or explain a positive random event as the will of God or an answer to prayer.

An example of the Bible as a catalyst would be the story of the Prophet Elijah on Mount Carmel squaring off with the 450 heathen prophets of Baal (and 400 heathen prophets of Asherah: I‘m not sure what happen to them ( 1 Kings 18: 20 -40)).

I can not count the times I heard this preached on at Bob Jones University and in many Baptist churches as an example of what faith in the true God can do. Hey, we all know lighting is a destructive force and how even Jesus (Luke 9: 54) just as Luke in Acts has Paul ( Acts 9: 3 -9 = Acts 22: 6 - 11 = Act\s 26:12 -18) seeing such forces of nature as miracles from God.

On the other hand, I have never heard the wild, but equally truthful Biblical story of Jacob tricking Laban out of his flock by peeling the bark off a stick and placing it near the animal‘s watering hole to cause the breeding animals to produce striped, speckled, and spotted offspring:

“Then Jacob took fresh rods of poplar and almond and plane trees, and peeled white stripes in them, exposing the white which was in the rods. He set the rods which he had peeled in front of the flocks in the gutters, even in the watering troughs, where the flocks came to drink; and they mated when they came to drink. So the flocks mated by the rods, and the flocks brought forth striped, speckled, and spotted." (Genesis 30: 37 - 39).

But whether one story is preached on a lot to show the power of God while the second story in avoided like the plague from the pulpit; as for as the Bible is concerned, they show the power of faith in men blessed by God.

So, if one believes the Bible as written form Genesis to Revelation, it does not matter whether if Elijah is facing down the 400 prophets of Baal on Mt. Carmel; Jacob peeling the bark off a stick to make the DNA in animals mutate and produce weirdly marked offspring or Jesus coming back from the dead on the third day, as for as the Bible goes, they all carry equal Biblical truths or Biblical facts.

Now, since these Biblical stories of God working miracles in the past must be accepted on faith if one is to be a Christian (a point we hear all the time from comments posted here at DC), for the faithful and unquestioning Christian, this Biblical catalyst will set in motion human denial of the logical for the religious mind that believes God can and does act today though miracles just as he did in the Bible. Since the believing Christian can not “Throw the baby out with the bath water”, then the miracle of Jacob’s peeled sticks carries the same miracle truth as the resurrection of Jesus; though not the same theological importance.

We usually hear stories from survivors who have experienced an acute situation in which God has saved their life. This is often heard on radio and television newscast following a plane crash in which religious people give tanks to their God for sparing their lives.

If the entire human life on the plane is spared (as was the case of US Airways Flight 1549 landing in the Hudson River in New York recently) then the catalytic Bible with its miracle stories of faith seems to vindicate itself.

However, when an entire plane goes down, leaving no survivors at all or when over half the passengers are killed during a crash, we only hear the praises to God from the humans still alive and able to talk while the majority of passengers killed are strangely pushed aside and silently left out of the miracle of God’s protection in this equation.

As noted above, an acute situation does not leave one time to relax and think logically, but rather the suddenness of the situation makes it a “Knee Jerk Reaction” based on a cry for help from the divine realm ( the old “there are no atheists in a foxhole” reaction).

On the other hand, doing a chronic or long term situation, one has more time to weight in on the Biblical claims and this mostly leads the victim to conclude both God and the Biblical miracle stories just don’t work.

An example of this is my 14 year old daughter went into End Stage Renal Failure in 1999. I vividly remember the night she and her Renal Nurse came home from choosing a peritoneal dialyzer and how she cried stating that she had to pick out a machine she had to be hooked up to every night to remain alive for the rest of her life.

I also remember the good intentions of the many churches which formed Prayer Chains for my daughter’s recovery. I recall the night a pastor stopped by to assure her that God loves her and will take care of her. But I was even more struck by her response to this pastor. She said: “I love my cats and dog and I take care of them because I love them. If God loves me, then why didn’t He take care of my kidneys?” The pastor just stood there.

Again, in contrast to the acute plane crash situation, the chronically afflicted victim has had time to be exposed to God though faith and prayer and has rightly reasoned that they are basically among the dead passengers in a plane crash.

To further prove my point concerning the chronically afflicted victim and their lack of faith in God and the Biblical catalytic miracle stories; every two years we attend the Transplant Games where people who have had kidney, heart-lung, pancreas, bowel, liver and other donor organs (from both living and dead people (given so that others facing chronic illness and death can live)) attend to celebrate life by competing in athletic competition of life and friendship. The ages of these people include anywhere form a one year old child to 80 plus senior citizens.

As a former seminary student and preacher, I wanted to see how these transplant patients (most must take 20 plus pills per day the rest of their life to keep from rejecting their life giving organ) felt about God and religion.

To experience this on a large scale, I attended both the Opening and Closing Ceremonies in which up to 3,000 transplant patients attended and where many gave talks about life and the wonders of modern medicine and their loving thankfulness to the donor families.

Nowhere, and I repeat, nowhere, and at no time was there ever a prayer offered at these opening and closing events! Nowhere and at no time did anyone in these two hour plus ceremonies ever mention, thank or praise God, Jesus or religion as making it possible for them to live (instead, and contrary to the Bible, they praised “sinful man” and his works).

Unlike the acute person who “Finds God” in a panic during a passing time of trouble, these former long term chronically ill transplant people have seen the failure of God, prayer and religion in their lives. Many of the children and youth see themselves born (or created) by the very God the Bible and churches exhort them to turn to. They know and have first hand experience of the futility of religion and Biblical miracles. (Sorry District Supt. Harvey Burnett!)


While the Bible and its God labels humanity as sinful and in need of salvation that can only come from faith and God, these thousands upon thousands of transplanted people know as a fact, that without modern doctors and drugs, they would be just another head stone in some cemetery waiting for Jesus to come back in just another failed Biblically based miracle promise.

Crusade: A March Through Time

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We rented a movie recently and my wife didn't know there was probably a Children's Crusade in the 13th century. They all got slaughtered. Regardless of whether there was or not, this movie shows you how people of faith think and argue. The movie is instructive I think, for the boy hero of the story was troubled by it all. Christian, how would you respond to such faith talk? Watch the movie and tell us. That's exactly how you sound to us!

Dr. David Eller Interviewed on the Secular Nation

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Eller is the author of Atheism Advanced, which I highly recomend. Link