Case Studies In What It Takes To Believe: Don Camp

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Don Camp has roosted here at DC, making unsubstantiated faith-based claims. He tried making the case that faith is trust, then he provided an historical example by asking why we should not trust William Bradford's journal. Even if we're not familiar with his example, anyone can apprehend his point. He wrote:
My point about William Bradford was that we have reports of the history of Plymouth Plantation from only a few people, the primary one being William Bradford. Can we actually know anything without trusting Bradford's account - having faith in his report?

My second question is whether that is real knowledge since the basic evidence would be the journal of William Bradford.

Final question is how we might test the reliability of Bradford's account.
I ask my readers to answer his questions since they are so easy to do with reference to the Gospels and Camp's god. Have at it. I see he's respectful but there are major differences between these two cases, something he just cannot see because faith blinds him. School him but try being respectful if you can. For my part it's simply unbelievable that this is what it takes to believe in the gospels and/or in Camp's god.

"Faith is Pretending to Know Things You Don't Know" Just Like the Sophists in the Days of Socrates, Who Was Wise Because He Knew He Didn't Know.

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I consider Peter Boghossian's stipulative definition of faith to be a sound one from all I know about how apologists defend their faith (above). I documented this in my somewhat sarcastic book, How to Defend the Christian Faith: Advice from an Atheist. Check it out. It'll surely surprise most of you. Take a look at the blurbs.

The problem is faith. Faith is the mother of all cognitive biases. Faith leads believers to play the childish pretend game of religion. To have faith is to have a misplaced childish trust in non-existent deities. Faith is the entrance ticket to the fantasy-land of religion. Faith is a virus of the mind that stunts the growth of a person. It keeps people childish in their thinking.

In response, the brain of the believer will lie to its host. It will make shit up to hide the fact that its host believes in fairy tales. The host will be told lies that the overwhelming consensus of scientists is based on faith, that people need their particular parochial modern deity in order to live good moral lives, that atheism is a religion even though atheists do not believe in supernatural forces and/or beings, the list go on. Believer, you must bring your brain to heel by demanding objective evidence before concluding something, by proportioning your assent to the strength of the evidence, and by denying your brain the natural tendency to prefer wish-fulfillment over the cold hard truth. You say you really want to know the truth? Okay then. Force your brain to read this book: Christianity in the Light of Science: Critically Examining the World's Largest Religion. Check it out. It'll surely surprise most of you. Take a look at the blurbs.

Since faith is indeed pretending to know things you don't know, then faith does not deserve a whole sub-discipline known as Philosophy of Religion in our secular universities either, as I argued Unapologetic: Why Philosophy of Religion Must End. For readers not studying or teaching philosophy of religion classes, the book is a manifesto against faith itself. I argue against pretending to know things we don't know. So I'm not only calling for the end of the philosophy of religion sub-discipline, but also an end to philosophy of religion itself, at least, how it's currently being practiced by almost everyone. I think the book could revolutionize what readers think of religion. In it you'll learn how to effectively deal with faith-based claims and how to spot them. Check it out. It'll surely surprise most of you. Take a look at the blurbs.

Agnotology and Christian Apologetics

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In the following link we learn of agnotology:
The cigarette industry did not want consumers to know the harms of its product, and it spent billions obscuring the facts of the health effects of smoking. This search led Robert Proctor to create a word for the study of deliberate propagation of ignorance: agnotology.

It comes from agnosis, the neoclassical Greek word for ignorance or ‘not knowing’, and ontology, the branch of metaphysics which deals with the nature of being. Agnotology is the study of wilful acts to spread confusion and deceit, usually to sell a product or win favour. LINK.
Let me put it to you, my readers. Are Christian apologists purveyors in agnotology? Are they deceivers or the deceived? How many of them aim to deceive, if so? How do we know they aim to deceive, if so? What kind of mental gymnastics do they use in justifying their deceit, if so? If instead they are merely deceived, who or what is deceiving them? Since they're deceived what are the best ways to convince the brainwashed, the deluded and the indoctrinated that they are in fact deceived? Can this be done at all? I'll be testing ideas for my next book/anthology in the coming month or so. Please chime in. Ask others to chime in. The assumption is that Christianity is false to the point of a delusion. Since this is the case what then of Christian apologists?

Maybe It’s Not the Worst Book in the Bible…

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…But It’s a Contender

It would be such a relief—such a gift to the cause of compassionate religion—if Christians (especially of the paid-apologist variety, e.g., theologians, priests, ministers) could get over Paul’s Letter to the Romans. In my post on this blog 14 October 2016, I characterized this 16-chapter patch of scripture as a ‘toxic brew of bad theology,’ and stated my reasons for doing so. I also announced my plan to write analyses of each the 16 chapters, my atheist critique to be wrapped by January. I fell short of that goal: here I am starting in January. So, here goes, my take on Romans 1.

Scholars suspect that Paul’s opening paragraph was based on a liturgical formula current at the time (1:2-5), more or less summing up basic Christian thought, one key point being that Jesus Christ was a descendant of King David. So I begin with a digression: There is little doubt that Paul belonged to the school of thought that Jesus had been conceived/born the same way everyone else is. We search in vain throughout his letters for any mention of the virgin birth (which would have canceled “descended from David”). Matthew’s famous proof text, Isaiah 7:14, “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son” was the furthest thing from his mind. He would have laughed it off.

Notice how explicit he is in 1:4: Jesus was declared son of God by his resurrection. That is Paul’s obsession; virgin birth would have diluted resurrection as the only credential that mattered. The birth narratives in Matthew and Luke (representing the minority school of thought in the New Testament) indulged this fantasy that seeped into Christian thought decades after Paul wrote; some of the pious assumed it would be cool to graft the pagan his-mother-was-a-virgin idea onto the Jesus story. Those who want to adore Mary will not find an ally in Paul—who never so much as mentions her.

Matthew, by the way, insults our intelligence in the first chapter of his gospel. He begins by tediously listing Jesus’ ancestors back to King David (gotta have that pedigree!) then drops the story of the virgin birth on us: Nope, Jesus didn’t have a father. How come the original readers didn’t catch this glaring non sequitur? And how come this is not the point that Christians today realize that Matthew was a fraud and toss the New Testament into the trash?

End of digression.

If I ever get around to writing a secular commentary on this dreadful epistle, I have the title ready: Paul’s Letter to the Romans: God Is Wrath. After his unctuous flattery of the Roman congregation (1:8-15), he gets down to business, to his flawed, ugly theology.

I want to mention four points.

No, God is not obvious by looking around at nature

In verse 20, Paul lays the groundwork for condemning unbelievers: “Ever since the creation of the world his eternal power and divine nature, invisible though they are, have been understood and seen through the things he has made. So they are without excuse.” So God’s power and nature can be “understood” through what he has made? Actually, precisely because God’s nature and power are invisible, they are not understood. Presumably Paul had the natural world in mind, but theologians with a couple thousand years of practice know that this is feeble: indifferent nature shows no mercy to humans. I suspect Paul didn’t give enough thought to this, because in his letters he explains endlessly what God expects and demands. So rules of conduct to convict sinners aren’t at all so obvious from the “things that God has made.”

God can’t wait to get even

Because people resorted to other gods, especially idol worship, God kicks them to the curb. In verses 24, 26 and 28 Paul states explicitly that God “gave them up”—and we get insights into Paul’s tormented personality by his list of things that God gave people up to: (1) the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the degrading of their bodies; (2) to degrading passions; (3) to a debased mind and things that should not be done. Hmmmm…obsessed about sex much? More about that on the next point. Suffice it to say here that Paul’s concept of God is weighted heavily toward revenge and punishment: God himself gives people up to sin. All this because people did not see fit to “acknowledge God.” No slack given here to folks who didn’t see eye-to-eye with Paul on religion, those who—and this was the big no-no for Paul—cheerfully embraced lust (we’d all be better off if Paul had given it a try). Paul doesn’t seem to have heard the stories about Jesus hanging out with sinners.

Knee-jerk disgust about women loving women, men loving me

Now, full disclosure before I get into this one: I am gay, so it’s no surprise that I have no patience with Paul’s rant against same-sex love. Sure, we can cut him some slack since his thinking was influenced by severe teaching in the Old Testament—and he lived centuries before human sexuality had been studied. What would we expect? But the folks who want to point to these verses in Romans 1 (vv. 26-27) as binding “word of God”—because “saint” Paul said them—are blind to their own hypocrisy: they don’t notice that Paul shuddered at heterosexuality as well! Everything in his writings about sexuality screams dysfunction! And we have the impulse to scream at Paul, “Get a life!”

Paul disdained men loving women: “It is well for a man not to touch a woman. But because of cases of sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.” (1 Corinthians 7:1-2) You read that right: marriage is okay because liability to immortality should drive you to it. Or how about this gem: “And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires” (Galatians 5:24). And this: To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain unmarried as I am” (I Corinthians 7:8). True enough, Paul’s delusions about Jesus returning soon warped his thinking: “…the appointed time has grown short; from now on, let even those who have wives be as though they had none” (I Corinthians. 7:29).

Outside of the most pathetic cults, you will never find a marriage counselor who urges couples to follow Paul’s advice. So please don’t quote him as an expert on love, marriage or sexuality—hetero or homo. And since he was so wrong about so many things (see my 14 October 2016 post), don’t credit him with being tuned into God’s thoughts—about anything. Yet Paul remains the default authority on homosexuality for so many today. No doubt with Romans 1 in mind, the Catholic Church cannot budge from its official position that gay people are “disordered.”

Paul’s long list of those who “deserve to die”

Full stop, Christians. How can anyone read the ending of Romans 1 and say, with a straight face, that Paul should be called a saint? Or that this text merits inclusion in “the good book”? Here he shows us his full venom: “… they are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, rebellious toward parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. They know God’s decree, that those who practice such things deserve to die…”

It’s a common Christian dodge that the nasty god of the Old Testament gave way to the loving God of the New Testament. But Paul does his best to keep the wrathful god alive and hovering over hapless humans. He includes gossips and rebellious children among those who deserve to die—according to God’s own decree. I guess it’s actually a good thing that—apart from obsessive scholars—the Letter to the Romans is pretty much ignored by the faithful, for whom The Man Upstairs is a benevolent figure, a cosmic buddy. Hildegard of Bingen is a saint with far more appeal than Paul: “”God hugs you. You are encircled by the arms of the mystery of God.”

One of those obsessive scholars was C. H. Dodd, who wrote in 1939 that The Letter to the Romans is “the first great work of Christian theology.” Please, say it ain’t so.


David Madison was a pastor in the Methodist Church for nine years. He has a PhD in Biblical Studies from Boston University. His book, Ten Tough Problems in Christian Thought and Belief: a Minister-Turned-Atheist Shows Why You Should Ditch the Faith, was published last year by Tellectual Press.




Why Have I Been Unusually Quiet Lately?

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Three things happened in my life about the same time that explain why I've been unusually quiet these last few months. The first was Trump being elected as my President. Ugh! What a setback that was for the United States and world at large. All of our/my efforts as a liberal active Democrat in my state of Indiana were dashed for the foreseeable future (perhaps eight years?), with the potential rise of my former governor Mike Pence as the next President. Double Ugh! A certain amount of fatigue set in. Was the work worth it? Why bother?

The second was the publication of my book Unapologetic. This book is my tenth one. This meme to the right was made by Dr. David Madison from that book. I may write/edit other books, but I have no strong desire to do so right now, and to be frank, I don't think this will change anytime soon. For the first time in ten years I have no book in the works, and it feels good! Because of this I write less here at DC, since I used this blog as a way of testing ideas. I feel it's time to relax and enjoy life much more. I have a body of work out there, and it's pretty good. It has lasting value for which I am very happy.

The third thing is a person. Her name is Sheila. I am captivated by her, photos below. I'm not so superficial as to think looks are all that matter, but she's a good looking woman. She's also a witty smart successful professional and mother who loves me more than I deserve. I'm going to do everything I can to keep her, and I think I can. She's also a Christian (of sorts) who goes to an evangelical church. I've attended three times so far, where I hear pop-psychology as if it's something to be found in the Bible, which it isn't. So for anyone out there who thinks I treat Christians badly realize that the most significant person in my life is a Christian (of sorts). In fact, almost all of my friends are Christians.

Once a Christian, Always a Christian?

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No. But there are many ties that bind….

Dennis R. Trumble Favorably Reviews "Christianity in the Light of Science"

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LINK. Here is a link to something about Dr. Trumble. His review is below. Enjoy

Shallow Theology from the Cheerful Pope

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Com’on, Your Holiness, You Sound Like a C – Student at a Second-Rate Bible College

In August 2016 an earthquake struck central Italy, killing 297 people and injuring more than 300. I’m sure at least some believers—especially those wandering in the rubble—were brought to the brink of cynicism in the face of such horrors: What can God be up to? In the Earthquake Control Department, isn’t now the time for almighty to mean something?

Mourners might not know of H. L. Mencken’s declaration, “The whole Christian system, like every other similar system, goes to pieces upon the problem of evil,” but looking at crushed babies, they might give Mencken a thumbs-up. If someone dared to pat me on the back at that moment and whisper, “God is here to comfort you”—my response would be an obscene version of get-out-of-my-face.

In fact Christian posturing about a benevolent Cosmos—engineered and supervised by a loving deity—is shown to be nonsense in the face of earthquakes and tsunamis, hurricanes and tornadoes (among many other things that nature throws at us).

Christian apologists have written endless streams of theobabble for centuries trying to square this theological circle. But Catholic theologian Uta Ranke-Heinemann is candid: ““The question of the origin of evil, of what causes the tears and deviltries of the world, the question that no theologian has so far managed to answer, is one that humans have always posed.” (Putting Away Childish Things, p. 62).

But Popes are in charge of the brand—they’ve got a big business to protect and defend—so pushing theobabble that supposedly sounds good is what they do best. So Francis rushed in to play the comfort card. His meaningless words qualify superbly as diversionary fluff:

“I cannot fail to express my heartfelt sorrow and spiritual closeness to all those present in the zones afflicted. I ask you to join me in praying to the Lord Jesus, who is always moved by compassion before the reality of human suffering, that he may console the broken hearted, and through the intercession of the Virgin Mary, bring them peace.”

How pathetic. Especially for those who are skepical about long-dead heroes who supposedly live in the sky (or in our hearts?). Is that the best he can do? This is theology distilled into sentimentality, something I might expect from a mediocre Bible college graduate assigned to a backwoods pulpit. I suspect that many among the devout, through their tears, give a shrug to this theological white noise.

They want to know why. People in the deepest pain imaginable have looked their pastors in the eye, pleading for answers that make sense. The answers aren’t there. In Chris Chibnall’s superb BBC drama, Broadchurch, about the murder of an 11-year old boy in a small English coastal town, the parents sit with a young parish priest out of his depth trying to ease their anguish. The father stammers a few words: “Just need some answers, don’t we? We need some help. You have a line to the Big Man, why don’t you ask him? We’re drowning down here.”

Well, if there’s anyone with a line to the Big Man, isn’t it the Vicar of Christ on Earth? Who else might have the Red Phone on his desk? “Jesus will console and Mary will bring you peace” just doesn’t cut it. If that’s the best the Pope can do, he simply demonstrates, once again, that Mencken was right.


David Madison was a pastor in the Methodist Church for nine years, and has a PhD in Biblical Studies from Boston University. His book, Ten Tough Problems in Christian Thought and Belief: a Minister-Turned-Atheist Shows Why You Should Ditch the Faith, was published by Tellectual Press in August 2016.






Was Jesus Born of a Virgin?, Part 3

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Part 2 can be found here. Realist1234 responded. My introductory remarks: 'Q' is a hypothetical document that most NT scholars think best explain the synoptic gospels. Yes, there is a minority view. Do you want to hang your belief in the resurrection on a minority view? And if your god desires belief unto salvation why did he allow the evidence to lead most scholars to think Q exists?

Paul may not have needed to talk about the virgin birth, or indeed of many realities about Jesus' life. But why not? You assume he believed what we find in the canonical Gospels even though he doesn't mention the virgin birth. Can you establish that? He and Peter disagreed on circumcision. What else did they disagree about? Surely there were other things. Nonetheless, there was a need to discuss the virgin birth. His discussion of original sin in Rom. 5-8 (according to most theologians) demands it. Had he done so he would've disarmed critics who would say Jesus suffered from original sin if he was born the natural way. So why didn't he?

What Is Bad Theology?

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Hint: John 3:16 Is Pretty Bad

On Reviews of My Book Unapologetic

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According to this review my book Unapologetic: Why Philosophy of Religion Must End is an "mandatory/essential read for people interested in the issues it addresses! I've copied it below for your convenience. There's more to my book than merely calling for atheist philosophers to end their own discipline. It's also a manual for teaching readers how to effectively deal with religion and other faith-based paranormal claims.

I expected some bad book reviews since my target is the philosophy of religion. What I didn't expect are utterly unfair reviews by people who should know better, who are destroying their own credibility in writing them. So far they nitpick at it rather than deal with its focus--one reviewer doesn't even tell readers what I'm doing in it, basically leaving them clueless. In any case, these two posts of mine effectively answer the bad reviews I've seen so far: 1) On The Value of Philosophy and Definitional Apologetics; 2) Isn't it inconsistent to criticize the legitimacy of Philosophy of Religion?

Was Jesus Born of a Virgin?, Part 2

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Part 1 can be found here. I received a response from a Christian who switched topics from the virgin birth to the resurrection of Jesus and the mysteries that science hasn't solved yet. He argued the resurrection of Jesus supports the virgin birth of Jesus and that, even if the virgin birth is hard to believe he could never believe what an atheist like me does. My brief reply is instructive I think.

Billions of people were raised to believe something differently. As outsiders they could no more be convinced of your type of Christianity, than you could be convinced of their particular religion. Given this, the most charitable thing we can say about how people adopt their religion is that learning one's religion on Mama's knees is an unreliable way to know which religion is true, if there is one. Agreed? In other words, billions of people have been indoctrinated to believe something false. How do you know you aren't one of them? Do you want to know? Or are you having fun trying to match wits with me/us?

My Book "Unapologetic" Is Getting Out There!

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Josh Baker posted this pic in a comment on Facebook from Powell's City of Books. Pretty cool! It's getting out there.

Was Jesus born of a virgin?

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You would think that if Jesus was born of a virgin, and that such a belief is important to Christianity, the Christian clergy would all believe it. But significant numbers of them don't:

http://www.wnd.com/2015/12/christian-preacher-nativity-story-just-fairy-tale/

According to a 1998 poll of 7,441 Protestant clergy in the U.S., the following ministers said they didn’t believe in the virgin birth:

American Lutherans, 19 percent
American Baptists, 34 percent
Episcopalians, 44 percent
Presbyterians, 49 percent
Methodists, 60 percent

Yet another poll, in 1999, surveyed 103 Roman Catholic priests, Anglican priests and Protestant ministers in the U.K. That poll found 25 percent did not believe in the virgin birth, according to ReligiousTolerance.org. A 2004 survey of ministers in the Church of Scotland found 37 percent don’t accept the virgin account.

The clergy are educated Christians and they have much more at stake in maintaining their faith as traditionally believed. We would not expect so many of them to reject the virgin birth. The fact so many of them do so shows the evidence for the virgin birth is not there.

Jesus wasn't the only son of a god in ancient times

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Christians are either ignorant of this fact or they unreasonably deny its impact. Why should anyone in today's society believe the virgin birth of Jesus since the so-called testimony of it comes from the same ancient superstitious world that believed in other virgin births? The fact is, Jesus wasn’t the only son of a god in ancient times, as biblical scholar Richard C. Miller previously argued here at DC: 'Tis the Season to Debunk Ridiculous Claims . . .

Isn't it inconsistent to criticize the legitimacy of Philosophy of Religion?

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One major criticism of my book Unapologetic is seriously misguided to the point where my critics are just ignorant. I dealt with it in my book, especially at length on pages 181-184. But I can dispel with it quickly here. The criticism is that it's hypocritical or duplicitous or inconsistent or contradictory and perhaps even self-referentially incoherent to call for the end of philosophy of religion while using the philosophy of religion to do so.

If this criticism is sound then no one can ever call for the end of philosophy of religion. No one. Ever. This criticism forever insulates philosophy of religion as a discipline from ever being criticized. But why must that be the case, unless philosophy of religion is seen as beyond all criticism or justification? Upon what basis does a discipline need no justification? Critics must therefore state why the discipline they love so much needs no justification. But if it needs justification then it's possible that under rational scrutiny it may fail to be a legitimate discipline in the secular university.

Give Christians an Inch, They’ll Take a Light Year

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God Shows Up Late

Believers get whiney and petulant when we delete God from “in the beginning,” so, for the sake of argument, let’s wipe their tears and soothe their troubled spirits by granting that a god must have launched the Cosmos—pending the latest updates from cosmologists.

But give Christians that inch and they’ll take a light year. They overreach and rush in with assumptions and faith babble. They’ll want to push the Bible agenda. Their swarms of ideas about their god are as deeply entrenched as the belief in god-the-originator. They leap to the conclusion that the God described in the Bible is the one that triggered the Big Bang. And they’re shocked to be told that this doesn’t follow at all. God is God . . . what’s the problem?

Unapologetic Is an Audible Book and in Barnes & Noble

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You can now get "Unapologetic" in an an audio format. Listen to a sample on Amazon. I also chanced upon a copy in the philosophy section of my local Barnes & Noble store. Yeahhhhh!

Myth Versus History: Playing hide-and-seek with Jesus, by Robert Conner

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Given the ubiquitous superstition of his era and the festering resentment of the Jewish populace in Roman occupied Palestine, there was nothing particularly noteworthy about the message or career of a certain Joshua of Nazareth, better known as Jesus of Nazareth—Jesus is the Latinized form of Ihsouj (IÄ“sous), the Greek rendering of ciriiry (Yehoshua), Joshua, meaning “Yahweh delivers.” Joshua son of Nun, or Jesus son of NauÄ“ (Ihsouj o Nauh),1 the eponymous hero of the book of Joshua, represented the mythic triumph of Jewish theocracy over gentile paganism. The name, which embodied the very hope of salvation, of freedom, of rescue from the gentile Roman overlords, was understandably popular in 1st century Palestine.

An Excerpt with Discussions About My New Book "Unapologetic"

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Hemant Mehta, the Friendly Atheist, announced my newest book Unapologetic. I had missed it when it first appeared on November 30th. He also posted it on his Facebook wall. Check out the excerpt and the comments below each announcement. There's more to my book than merely calling for atheist philosophers to end their own discipline. It's also a manual for teaching readers how the effectively deal with religion and other faith-based paranormal claims.

Top 30 Atheist Blogs And Websites Every Atheist Must Follow by Feedspot

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Debunking Christianity was recently ranked in the top ten among atheist sites by Feedspot!! Pretty cool this is! Check their list out. Stop here. Read. Learn. Be challenged. Engage.

The UFO of Bethlehem - Through Atheist Eyes with Frank Zindler

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The Lazarus Stunt

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Theology-Soaked Fiction

The Pope and the Big Bang

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Maybe Our Brains Are too Puny?

Quote of the Day On The Value of Philosophy and Definitional Apologetics

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Over the last decade I have found that one bastion for Christian apologists has been philosophy, especially the philosophy of religion. The scholars have honed their definitional apologetics in such a fine-tuned manner that when engaging them in this discipline, it’s like trying to catch a greased pig. Or, to switch metaphors, trying to chase them down the rabbit’s hole in an endless and ultimately fruitless quest for definitions. What’s an extraordinary claim? What constitutes evidence? What’s the definition of supernatural? What’s the scientific method? What’s a miracle? What’s a basic belief? What’s a veridical religious experience? What’s evil? They do this just like others have done over questions like, “What is the definition of pornography?” And then they gerrymander around the plain simple facts of experience. I would rather deal in concrete examples like a virgin who supposedly had a baby and a man who supposedly was raised from the dead. [From Unapologetic: Why Philosophy of Religion Must End, p.28]
Notice the red letter edition? The reason why I prefer to deal in concrete examples is because of how Christian philosophers use definitions to obfuscate their own theology. It isn't because I'm anti-intellectual. Nor do I think definitions are unimportant. I just want truth to prevail.  

Reviewing A Lopsided Bar Room Book Discussion About a Belief System No One Holds, Complete With Annoying Corny Cheesy Humor, Part 3

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I'm reviewing Randal Rauser and Justin Schieber's conversational style book, An Atheist and a Christian Walk into a Bar: Talking about God, the Universe, and Everything.

I've previously mentioned the lopsidedness between Rauser and Schieber's academic credentials. This matters because breadth of knowledge matters, if nothing else. A self-taught person like Schieber cannot get the breadth that comes from taking the core classes required to earn bachelors, masters and doctoral degrees. It's the breadth of knowledge Schieber lacks, even if he has a fair understanding of the material in this book, and he does have a fair understanding of it, not an expert understanding. I've also talked about the content and criticized the co-authors for discussing the classical concept of god because no one, or practically no one, holds to it in today's world.

As I write this review I wrestle with who might want to buy a copy. Not me. I haven't learned anything significant from reading it, but then experts cannot be the target audience either. Which expert would ever quote Schieber's words in this book, saying, "On this matter Schieber said: '...quote...'" Or, "For more on this topic I recommend what Schieber said in An Atheist and a Christian Walk into a Bar. I know of no expert who would do so. Furthermore, the conversational style of the book is not conducive to an elaborate in-depth defense of an argument for one reason, it's just a conversation. Each co-author must allow the other co-author time to respond, so you never get to read an elaborate and lengthy defense of any given argument.

Moreover, I would rather read what Schieber said without having to read Rauser's take downs of what he said. This would've been more interesting to me, especially because it was annoying to wade through the muddy waters resulting from Rauser's dredged up obfuscations of Schieber's arguments (none original with him). Rauser's got nothing here. Yet Schieber seems so happy to be invited to co-write the book he never presses his arguments to the end and even bends over backwards in the face of Rauser's ignorance to be polite and respectful at all costs to Rauser, his superior (after all, the book looks better on his resume than on Rauser's). The real cost is the truth. Schieber either cannot adequately defend his arguments or he's too timid to do so. As a result, truth suffers.

What about typical bar room people, the Joe Six-Pack's of the English speaking world? Would they want to buy and read this book? Probably not. In too many cases the co-authors treat readers as if they're ignorant. The stories they tell in it are long and simplistic and take up too much space that would better be served getting to the point and arguing that point. This is standard Rauser. It's what he does, and he does it well if you find that type of writing useful. I don't. Many of his stories are analogies I find unhelpful because they don't clarify but rather obfuscate. What's interesting is that Schieber does the same thing, having learned from Rauser, a bad role model in my opinion, and so he's equally annoying. The stories dumb down the discussion, trying to reach down to the bar room person. But then dumb people still don't want to be treated as if they're dumb, right? Then the co-authors turn right around and forget about these readers by using language they probably cannot understand, plus more.

The Kindle Version of "Unapologetic" is Now Available!

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The Kindle version of "Unapologetic" is now available!

Reviewing A Lopsided Bar Room Book Discussion About a Belief System No One Holds, Complete With Annoying Corny Cheesy Humor, Part 2

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I'm reviewing Randal Rauser and Justin Schieber's conversational style book, An Atheist and a Christian Walk into a Bar: Talking about God, the Universe, and Everything.

I've previously mentioned the lopsidedness between Rauser and Schieber's academic credentials. This matters because breadth of knowledge matters, if nothing else. A self-taught person like Schieber cannot get the breadth that comes from taking the core classes required to earn bachelors, masters and doctoral degrees. It's the breadth of knowledge Schieber lacks, even if he has a fair understanding of the material in this book.

Let's turn a bit to its content. Rauser chose to make three chapter long arguments as did Schieber. Rauser's arguments focused on: 1) God, faith and testimony, 2) God and moral obligation, and 3) God, mathematics and reason. Schieber focused on: 1) the problem of massive theological disagreement; 2) the problem of the hostility of the universe, and 3) the evolution of the biological role of pain. These are all good interesting topics as far as they go.

Before they begin they talk about why god matters in chapter one. Now if I were Schieber and I were asked why God or gods mattered, I would say because people matter. God matters because there have been, and continues to be, a massive amount of suffering caused by the belief in God, or gods. That would be my focus, and I've edited a book on that topic with regard to Christianity, titled Christianity is Not Great: Why Faith Fails. Schieber doesn't feel the pain that belief in God or gods has caused. So he lacks the motivation to care. What he's doing is having an interesting dialogue for the sake of dialogue, and that's simply not good enough. Schieber says:
Ultimately, it matters little to me that readers are unlikely to have been swayed in either direction. I did not begin this dialogue with a primary goal of acquiring new notches on my atheistic belt. I began this project because I love the dialogue, the concepts involved, and the joy I get with exploring the mechanics of how arguments interact. (p. 206).
He needs to get some hypothetical fire in his belly for all of the people who have been burned because of god beliefs. For him this is merely an interesting discussion and that's it, because he lacks breadth. Treating god-belief as an interesting topic simply does not cut it. People have died and are dying because Rauser's god-belief is held by broadly two thirds of the world. Schieber should read more. I recommend the book by Elicka Peterson Sparks, The Devil You Know: The Surprising Link between Conservative Christianity and Crime.

Instead, Rauser and Schieber focus on why the existence of God is the intellectually responsible thing to discuss for intellectually responsive people, and that we should take classical theistic beliefs seriously. Get that? Neither do I. There ought to be over-riding reasons to take God beliefs seriously. Those reasons should be because there is good evidence to do so (which Rauser should have said, but couldn't, which by itself is telling), or in Schieber's case, because belief in God has produced, and still produces, harm (Schieber's missed opportunity). Then incredibly they choose to focus on a set of beliefs that conceptualize the classical theistic God. For them this god "is a necessarily existent nonphysical agent who is omniscient omnipotent, and perfectly good." (p. 27) There are three massively wrong things about choosing to focus on this classical view of god.

Reviewing A Lopsided Bar Room Book Discussion About a Belief System No One Holds, Complete With Annoying Corny Cheesy Humor, Part 1

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Randal Rauser has teamed up with Justin Schieber to write a conversational style book, published by atheist publisher Prometheus Books, titled An Atheist and a Christian Walk into a Bar: Talking about God, the Universe, and Everything. Academically speaking Dr. Rauser earned a PhD from King's College, London, and is a professor of historical theology at Taylor Seminary in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. He also has written nine books, including one he co-authored with me, titled God or Godless?: One Atheist. One Christian. Twenty Controversial Questions. Schieber, the co-author of this book, is a second year student at Grand Rapids Community College. How is it, you ask, that these two teamed up? Well, let me tell you. I don't know. Schieber is self-taught on these issues and intelligent, I'll admit. But intelligent readers who think academic credentials are important won't expect anything less from this book than a student who is out-matched by professor Rauser. At the very least, Schieber is not Rauser's equal by far. I was asked by an atheist publisher, who was considering publishing this book, whether or not it would be worth publishing. I said no, and they didn't publish it. My main reason for saying so is because of the lopsidedness of the participants, and it does show in this book. Atheist readers, who are asked to pony up money for a book, want reassured their view is represented by someone who knows what s/he is talking about, someone who is a somewhat equally educated credentialed participant. That's one major flaw with this book. Readers want equal representation. But Prometheus Books disagrees. How is it, you ask, that Prometheus Books published it? Well, let me tell you. I don't know. There are other major flaws. What are they, you ask? Well, I do know.

The Day God Overslept (Well, One of Many Days)

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Theodicy, AKA The Litany of Excuses