I wish Christian apologists would get their stories straight on this question. Apologists who seek to soften the problem of religious diversity, and who want to explain why a diverse number of religious believers have their prayers answered, will say Yahweh and Allah are the same god by different names. So say Paul Moser, David Marshall, Victor Reppert, Randal Rauser and many others.
Christians who seek to be honest however, will say no they're not the same god! Interestingly enough, William Lane Craig says they are not the same god! Jack Cottrell agrees with Craig. Roger Olsen's answer is both yes and no! Olsen:
Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God? It’s not as simple a question as it appears and therefore no simple, straightforward answer should be given. The question itself begs analysis—before any answer can be given. I worry that people who jump to answer “yes” may be motivated more by political correctness and/or fear of persecution (of Muslims) than by clear thinking about the theological differences between Islam and Christianity. I also worry that people who jump to answer “no” may be motivated more by Christian fundamentalism and/or fear of terrorists than by clear thinking about the historical-theological roots of Islam in Jewish and Christian monotheism.
One of my seminary professors—a bit more cynical than most—wisecracked about Karl Barth’s 12-volume magnum opus on Christian theology, “Nobody knows 8,000 pages about God—not even in German.” The key word here is knows. Just how does anyone figure out God—has anyone actually done it?—based on hard evidence? It would be greatly appreciated if the legions of Christian theologians and apologists could provide just one page of bona fide God knowledge.
Hence, long ago I got into the habit of scrawling in the margins of theology books, “How does he know this?” And when I came across especially florid sentences: “How do theologians learn to talk like this?” But often I simply wrote, “Theobabble!” in response to nonsense and obfuscation.
My anthology is coming out in the Fall! To see the contents click here.
-Michael Shermer, publisher ofSkeptic magazine:
I thought I knew a lot on these topics—inasmuch as I was once a born-again Christian myself and made these arguments, then became a born-again Skeptic debating believers—but I learned more from reading this one book than all other works combined. The Case against Miracles belongs in every library and personal bookcase of both believers and skeptics.
--Peter Boghossian, author of A Manual for Creating Atheists:
The Case Against Miracles is the most important anthology to ever be written about miracles.
--Christian apologist Dr. Gary Habermas:
Christians need be aware of what non-Christian scholars are saying. In this thoughtful and stimulating volume, editor John Loftus brings together a number of the most accomplished atheists and other skeptics to deal with the crucial topic of miracles, an issue that is important on all sides.
--Assistant Professor of History at Arkansas Tech University, Dr. Gregory Michna:
The assorted contributors who provided essays for The Case Against Miracles offer a range of arguments—from the philosophical and intellectual to specific historic deconstructions—suggesting that miracles fly in the face of reason and should be met with credulity. They provide a wide survey of issues inherent in miraculous claims that will give any reader much to consider.
--Trent Horn, a Christian apologist who earned three master’s degrees in theology, philosophy, and bioethics, and the author of nine books, including Answering Atheism:
While some entries are stronger than others, The Case against Miracles represents a powerful critique of the miraculous. Its central arguments demand the attention of any serious defender of the Christian faith.
--David Fitzgerald, author of Nailed, Jesus: Mything in Action, and The Complete Heretic's Guide to Western Religion series:
Every John W. Loftus book is a must-read; he continues to assemble some of the finest and most insightful minds in contemporary counter-apologetics. Putting biblical miracle claims under the magnifying lens, it weighs the evidence and finds them wanting. The Case against Miracles is a superb resource and a handy field guide for anyone forced to traipse through the treacherous jungles of the miraculous.
Dr. David Madison:
The previous four Loftus anthologies have left little of Christianity intact. Of course, apologists continue to flail, but the case against miracles—so massively documented in this new 562-page book—wipes out all vestiges of this primitive, magical thinking.
--Dan Barker Co-President of Freedom From Religion Foundation and author of Godless, Mere Morality, Free Will Explained, GOD: The Most Unpleasant Character in All Fiction, and Life Driven Purpose:
This book is a secular miracle! An extremely rare event. There are hundreds of pro-miracle books, but when was the last time you saw a comprehensive anthology by such eloquent critics of miracles? For gathering this well-reasoned material into such an accessible volume, John Loftus should be canonized.
--Karen L. Garst, PhD, Editor of Women Beyond Belief:
In this book much shorter than the Bible itself, Loftus has marshaled all the key arguments to prove that people should seriously doubt all religious miracle claims. It should be required reading in all seminaries.
--Mark W. Gura, president of Atheist Alliance of America, author, and atheist activist:
The Case against Miracles is a must read go-to book for showing the key flaws in the arguments Christian apologists use to convince people that miracles are real. It covers the Old Testament and New Testament miracles, and everything from the alleged virgin birth, to Jesus’ mythic resurrection and the failures of Christian apologetics. It’s the best book ever written on miracles.
--David Kyle Johnson, Ph.D, author of The Great Courses’ “The Big Questions of Philosophy”:
John Loftus’ The Case Against Miracles is a must read for anyone who truly and honestly wonders whether a miracle has ever occurred. Especially useful is its treatment of Craig Keener and his reports of the miraculous. Not only is the speciousness of Keener’s stories exposed, and the myriad faults of his investigate approach laid bare, but the details of how investigation into the miraculous must be approached is clearly articulated.
[Written by Teresa Roberts] In Christian theology, eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was the sin that caused the downfall of humankind. Apparently, the worst thing a human can do in the eyes of god is to acquire knowledge. Every tree bearing fruit in the garden was available to Adam and Eve except the one, the big tall tree bearing answers to their questions. That tree was strictly forbidden.
The Methodist Church in rural Indiana that I attended as a kid was not too many notches above Quaker simplicity. There were modest stained glass windows, but the only other art, above the altar, was the famous Warner Sallman portrait of Jesus. There were flags on both sides of the altar, the Christian and American. No one gave much thought to the presence of the latter; how could Christianity and our patriotic certainties not be in sync? We were sure that apostle Paul had it right: “…where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty,” (II Corinthians 3:17) although Paul didn’t have democracy in mind at all.
Having reviewed the television program I wanted to address some of the content from the Jesus : His Life website as well, namely the page that addresses the historicity of Jesus. I do find it significant that they address the existence of Jesus at all, at least acknowledging the growing number of people who doubt that Jesus was a real person. This is my last post covering the His Life series.
The website for the program includes several pages that address various aspects of Jesus lore. One such page addresses the question of whether Jesus existed at all. The page notes that a survey by the Church of England found that 22 percent of Brits didn't believe that Jesus was a real person.
We are then told, however, that of course the overwhelming majority of New Testament scholars (the majority of whom are Christians) do believe that Jesus was a real person. So what evidence does the site put forward to support the existence of Jesus?
A Review of Vitaly Malkin’s Dangerous Illusions: How Religion Deprives Us of Happiness
A challenge that theists have never met—as far as I know they’re not even working on it—is to show doubters and skeptics where we can find reliable, verifiable data about God. The catch is that all theists must agree, “Yes, that’s where to find it.” The endeavor flounders because theists have never been able to agree on which God data are reliable and verifiable. They don’t agree on whose revelations, scriptures, visions, and prayers are authentic. Just try, for example, to get a handle on which Christianity is the right one. In other words, humans have bungled religion badly: It’s a mess.
In a prior post I reviewed the first three episodes of the History Channel program Jesus : His Life. I've skipped the 4th through 6th episodes and will here be reviewing the final double episode that covers the Crucifixion. The Crucifixion episode also focuses on Mary Magdalene - leading with misinformation right out of the gate.
...if you were raised a Catholic and gullible enough to believe a medieval legend that the Scala Santa, also known as the Holy Stairs, were brought from Jerusalem to Rome circa 326 AD by St. Helena, mother of Constantine the Great. It's believed Jesus climbed them on the day of his crucifixion. In a second picture look how worn these stairs are after centuries of pilgrims. "This is the first time in 300 years that the walnut wood covering over the steps has been removed. It first was placed on the steps at Pope Innocent XIII’s request in 1723 to preserve the marble. The staircase was uncovered on Thursday and will remain that way through June 9, allowing visitors to ascend the steps on their knees, as is tradition. After the two-month window, the wood covering will be replaced, meaning this will likely be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for Christians to see the steps in their original form." You'd better book your trip today!!! More Religion Pics of the week here.
When I heard about the History Channel’s new TV special, Jesus : His Life, I was quite interested to see how they were going to handle the subject. As the author of the recently published book, Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed, obviously I knew that my perspective on the subject would be different than whatever might be presented, but I was still quite interested to see how they were going to present the subject matter.
It’s no wonder there are thousands of different Christian brands. The New Testament itself has fueled so much heated debate, diluting the One True Faith and provoking endless irreconcilable interpretations. So pity the poor laypeople. Largely isolated from theological wrangling, they have to figure out the essence of the faith from what they’ve learned in Sunday school. One theme, of course, represents Jesus as the embodiment (literally) of I John 4:8, “God is love.” That has had staying power, and John 3:16 is probably the best PR jingle ever.
This was brought home to me recently when I had a conversation with a Christian on Facebook. Here’s what I heard from him: “Love is the main theme throughout the New Testament.” “Love is the primary message of Jesus.” Christianity’s “primary tenet is love for all humanity.” See, John 3:16 works! I suggested some of the texts that show this is not the case at all, far from it, but these made no dent in his uber-confidence about love. I might as well have been shooting arrows at a tank.
According to many Christian apologists, we have good evidence for the truth of the resurrection. Two things in particular are usually mentioned: First, that many of the followers of Jesus were willing to risk their lives in order to spread the gospel. And second, that the discovery of the empty tomb was made by women.
That the disciples risked their lives, and in the majority of cases ended up being executed, shows they really believed in Jesus’ resurrection, for who would be willing to take things that far for something they did not believe? That women were the ones who found the empty tomb shows that the story wasn’t made up, since women weren’t trusted as sources of information in those days — and thus, if anyone were making up the story, they would have said it was men who made the discovery.
These arguments are, of course, extremely weak. But rather than criticizing them directly (for that, see for example my book The Truth about God, pp. 68-72), I’d like to pose a question regarding miracle claims in other religions. Let’s take Buddhism and Islam as examples.
After publishing Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed in late 2018 I have become increasingly engaged in the field of biblical studies and Christian origins. The subject of mythicism is a complex one that is fraught with problems, as is the entire subject of Christian origins, because of the vast array of competing claims in the field, some of which are of dubious academic quality. Nevertheless, I believe that the field is maturing and has reached a point of growing consensus around a model for Christian origins without the existence of a human Jesus.
[Written by Teresa Roberts] Growing up in a genuine American cult, I soon learned that my body created a problem for the men in the church. Even as a young girl, I was expected to dress modestly and conduct myself in a way that would become a woman of god — with shamefacedness and sobriety. Except for my neck, hands and head, all else must be covered. Bare skin, even the shape of my body beneath my clothes could be used by the devil to cause a man to sin. According to the brethren, sexual thoughts were as bad as sexual deeds. If I shirked my duty as the sexual gate keeper, I could be the cause of god sending men's souls to hell. Of course, I'd end up in the burning lake of fire, too, as a great seductress.
Here is the first review of my anthology "The Case against Miracles"! Thanks so much Dr. Karen Garst! LINK. She wrote:
In a book much shorter than the Bible itself, Loftus has marshalled all the key arguments to prove that people should seriously doubt all religious miracle claims. This book should be required reading in all seminaries.
"All it would take is for you to be born a Shiite. That's the easy part. Indoctrination brings with it the certainty of faith. What would it take to change your mind? I'll tell you. Reject testimonial evidence coming from the past and seek instead sufficient objective evidence. People lie, they misrepresent the truth, they tell tales and spread propaganda. But the objective evidence doesn't lie. Treat your own indoctrinated faith just as you treat the religions you reject. It's the only way to know which religion is true, if there is one. It's the only way to eliminate a whole host of cognitive biases that keep you inside your delusions. [Here's a list of the top 12 to avoid.] Photo Link. Click on the pic to enlarge:
We all have different perspectives on this issue and mine are not meant to tell others what to do, but are merely for consideration. I suspect how we deal with believers depends on factors like 1) how much religion has hurt us, 2) how much we know about the religion under examination, as well as 3) what we think of the apologists we are dealing with, 4) the kind of venue in which the discussion is taking place (i.e., person to person, comedy, lecture, online blog, podcast, vblog, or book), 5) the nature of our target audience, and 6) whether we think staunch believers can be convinced and consequently whether our goal is to convince them, or to convince others who are on their way out, or already out the door.
The supreme killer text in the New Testament—the one that wipes out the story that Jesus rose from the dead—is a gift to us from the author of Matthew’s gospel. This is worth noting as Easter is upon us, but I wonder how many believers notice this text; or, for that matter, how many have done even a little due diligence on the gospel accounts of Easter morning.
My colleague at the Debunking Christianity Blog, Robert Conner, has offered a solid analysis in this book, Apparitions of Jesus: The Resurrection as Ghost Story—and his sharp wit as well:
“I've long suspected that what the majority of people know about Christianity derives from its major holidays. They get their religion from Christmas cards and Easter imagery—thinking the Easter Bunny was one of the twelve apostles and candy eggs were on the menu at the Last Supper.” (Conner, Debunking Christianity Blog, 16 November 2018)
I received a recent comment about my forthcoming anthology against miracles: "I’m eagerly looking forward to this book even though, after Hume, I’m not sure what more needs to be said."
This is nice to hear! I think it's my best anthology yet, but then I've thought that about each one as they were published. Probably no one is more eager to see this book published than me, as I've put so many many hours into it. Still, it's a legitimate issue as to why such a book is needed at all, especially after Hume's arguments.
I agree with you about David Hume. He's regarded as the most important English speaking philosopher, except that there are some powerful objections against what he wrote against miracles, even coming from atheists themselves. Since Christians keep writing books in defense of miracles as if Hume never wrote a thing, they need answered. This is a book that defends Hume and responds to specific miracle claims in the bible and in today's world. There hasn't been a book length treatment of miracles like this written by atheists in, I don't know, forever, and it's long overdue. Actually, it's Hume plus Strauss plus Darwin equals the destruction of Christianity and religions in general.
David Hume's influence over others is towering, and rightly so. In 1748 he wrote a pioneering chapter of objections against miracles in his book, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding (chapter 10). This changed the course of theology, since he had a great influence on Friedrich Schleiermacher, considered to be the father of modern theology.
David Friedrich Strauss in turn was greatly influenced by Friedrich Schleiermacher at the University of Tübingen (1825-1831), who regularly attended his life of Jesus lectures. In 1835–36, at the age of 27, Strauss published his magnum opus--a mammoth of a work--titled The Life of Jesus Critically Examined, 2 vols. In it he denied the historical value of the Gospels and rejected their supernatural claims, describing them as historical myths.
Then in 1859 Charles Darwin's book On the Origin of Species was published which destroyed the Christianity believed at that time, along with others that were built on the rubble afterward. The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy on "David Hume" says, "Charles Darwin regarded his work as a central influence on the theory of evolution." Bet you didn't know that!
"We can't be certain how the Arabs became Muslim", says researcher Tom Holland. Fascinating! Was Mohammad ("the Praised One") originally Jesus? Was Islam originally a non-trinitarian Christian sect that rejected the need for an atonement on the cross? The evidence from coins don't lie. People do. This is extremely interesting and new to me. Makes sense. The first video is by the Atheistic Republic, who got me thinking. The others back it up.
...you were born somewhere else in the world. You might even pay to have bad karma removed! Which shows corruption abounds. So let me put it to you, to the degree there is corruption in a religious organization then to that same degree it's not from a caring god or a supernatural power. If so, say goodbye to all religions! For more religion photos of the week, see this LINK.
There are countless memes going around that ridicule talking snakes and donkeys, the ark full of animals, and a woman created from a rib. Who really cares about any of these? Any more than we care about fables describing floating axes, the sun standing still, or bears mauling boys who ridiculed a prophet. Aside from those who insist that the Bible is inerrant, ordinary devout folks don’t get too bent out of shape by the folklore.
But the ordinary devout folks also somehow manage to evade the grimmer, weirder ‘important’ teachings of the New Testament. If churchgoers spent as much time reading the Bible—really digging in—as they do watching movies, there would be more discomfort than they bargained for—and maybe quite a few would take their pastor aside to whisper, “Hey, Rev, this Bible chapter is really freaking me out.” Or do they just shrug their shoulders? They want to love their Jesus. It’s up to the minister to understand ‘all that Bible stuff.’
When I hear someone say that a god is responsible for something that happened or a decision that they've made, I cringe. Most things about religion have become cringe worthy to me. The more I explore the deeply entrenched mythologies of my own culture, the harder it becomes for me to take much of what humans do seriously. Little by little, I've realized that when it comes to our world view, most people simply embrace the one they've inherited. Religion is easy to pick on, however, because it's so full of blatant fairy tales. Yet, it's equally difficult to dispel, because the religious are such elitists. To break through their privileged exterior takes a sledge hammer, blow torch and chainsaw. They're not only blind to reason but they honestly seem to believe that they have a personal connection to the most powerful being in the universe.
All you had to do is be born into a different family and religious culture. That means you'll be going to hell too, if you don't confess Jesus as Lord and Savior! So wouldn't you wish you would treat your inherited Jewish religion as if you were an outsider, a nonbeliever, in hopes you might find the religion of Jesus before you die? Then you should test the religion you were actually born in with fairness and no double standards. For more religion photos of the week See this LINK.
In a shift that stands to impact both religion and politics, survey data suggests that the percentage of Americans who don’t affiliate with any specific religious tradition is now roughly the same as those who identify as evangelical or Catholic.
According to newly released General Social Survey data analyzed by Ryan P. Burge of Eastern Illinois University, Americans claiming “no religion” — sometimes referred to as “nones” because of how they answer the question “what is your religious tradition?” — now represent about 23.1 percent of the population, up from 21.6 percent in 2016. People claiming evangelicalism, by contrast, now represent 22.5 percent of Americans, a slight dip from 23.9 percent in 2016.
That makes the two groups statistically tied with Catholics (23 percent) as the largest religious — or nonreligious — groupings in the country.
“Nones have been on the march for a long time now,” Burge said. “It’s been a constant, steady increase for 20 years now. If the trend line kept up, we knew this was going to happen.” LINK.
“God inhabits eternity, outside of time and space.” So a pastor friend once told me, perhaps without realizing how much hard work was required for theologians to make God sound so good; they’ve been at it for centuries, redesigning God endlessly: an endless quest for respectability.
It’s just a fact, however, that the god who rampages through both the Old and New Testaments is a nasty-tempered tribal deity. Those who protest this assessment would do well to remember the story of Noah: “drown ‘em all” was old Yahweh’s approach to cleaning up sin—and getting even. And when Jesus ‘returns’ there’ll be a repeat—so Jesus himself promised (Matthew 24:38-39).
