What Contrary Evidence Troubles Me?

Davis Marshall asked me three questions:

What existentially difficult questions do you even admit face you, as an atheist? What contrary evidence troubles your confidence? Do you dare confess?

Let me take the last one first. I think he is probably "projecting" onto me. That line of psychological reasoning goes like this: "Since I have secret doubts then John probably does too." I'm not presuming to know this about him, but I suspect it's true. Perhaps he'll say that having doubts is a good thing, since he could claim it to be a mark of an open-minded person. Nonetheless, I have no trouble telling people what I think. He knows this. Perhaps that's why he asked. But he envisions me secretly fearing hell, worrying that if I am wrong I'm doomed, or worrying whether I'm doing a good thing by arguing against Christian faith, or that I hide some facts that support faith whenever it's inconvenient to do so. So in obliging his request what follows isn't a confession. I have no secret or hidden questions so there is nothing to "confess." This doesn't mean I know everything. I am continually learning as I go, and I have a lot of unresolved questions about the Bible, theology, and the history of the church. I have a lot of philosophical questions, the kinds that science can solve in principle, if not outright. I have questions about whether there will ever be a grand unified theory of everything, concerning the ultimate origins of everything, of human self-awareness and consciousness, and questions about metaphysical free-will, and the nature of ethics. They all interest me but they are not my specialty.

Honest Christians, Answer This Question!

I'd like for you to be honest with your faith here. No delusional sidesteps, okay? Answer a question having to do with what came first, your faith or your understanding. As we know, Anselm argued that "faith seeks understanding." That's the same stance other believers view their own religions. First they believe, then they seek to justify it by understanding it. Did you reasonably examine your faith before you adopted it? Or, did you try to justify it post hoc, after believing it?

My claim is that justifying something post hoc is an unreasonable way to examine a religion. It's something the Outsider Test for Faith finds to be an inconsistent double standard. For we know from cognitive studies that the strong human propensity is to unreasonably justify what we believe after the fact. We do this in order to resolve the cognitive dissonance in our heads (that uncomfortable feeling we have from for holding two contrary propositions at the same time).

Here's how cognitive dissonance works. You made a public stance in a confession for Jesus. Then you come across disconfirming evidence. What do you do? You already stated publicly you believed. So you must make a choice, either recant and be embarrassed for making a rash commitment, or find some way to escape the force of that disconfirming evidence. Sometimes that escape hole is so small only an ant could crawl through it, but when it comes to faith that'll do just fine.

In any case, this question has two aspects to it. The first aspect is chronological, the second one is logical.

How Did 9/11 Change Your Religious Beliefs?

Huffington Post is asking this question so I thought I would as well.

I've Propped Up a Couple of Christian Sites For Too Long

On or about August 14th I ceased linking to Christian blogs in my sidebar. I had done so for years in some cases under the rubric "Sites I Visit From Time to Time." What I didn't realize is that by doing so I was propping up their audiences. I made them more important than they were. And anyone who had anything nasty to say about me eventually congregated at them. The owners of those blogs reveled in their success and learned that by berating me they could get even more hits. So this played itself out over and over until those sites became cesspools of Loftus bashers. Two of them used to be ranked by Alexa at or about the 600,000th mark. Now look at their Alexa rankings, but before you do, let me crow a bit at my absolute power over them. *peep* *peep* ;-)

Howard Bloom: "A Does Not Equal A"

I've previously recommended Howard Bloom's new book, The God Problem: How a Godless Cosmos Creates. It is an intellectual feast. Bloom's central question is how the cosmos creates without a creator. Even if you disagree with his thesis there are startling insights and gems for thought that will probably stun you. For everyone interested in such a question on both sides of our debates this is sure to be essential reading. Let me tease you with something that might be stunning from chapter 2.

Contra Dr. Rauser on the Outsider Test for Faith (OTF)

Rauser commented on the OTF thusly: "As for the principle that 'you have to assume x is false and then establish its truth before you can believe it,' I'd like John to be consistent and apply the principle to itself.'"

Randal, there is some really solid overwhelming evidence that when it comes to your religion you should presume it has the burden of proof, which is to assume it is false. It's hypocritical to do otherwise, since that's how you REASONABLY approach all other religions that you reject. If your faith passed the OTF then you would be crowing about it. The fact that you intuitively recognize it doesn't is the only reason you rail against the OTF. There are a great many things you accept that you would change your mind about if someone presented sufficient evidence against them. Evidence has a way of breaking through to us all. Why doesn't your faith have that kind of sufficient evidence for it?

Let's put it this way: If God created us with minds that need sufficient evidence to believe and did not provide the needed evidence to believe, then he took away with one hand what he demands on the other hand. It also means that reasonable people who demand sufficient evidence to believe, reasonable people who were not born in a Christian privileged culture, will be condemned to hell by that same God simply because they were born as outsiders. Even the great Catholic apologist G.K. Chesterton argued for an outsider test for faith.

Some Mistakes of Moses (Continued)

The God of Moses was a God with hands, with feet, with the organs of speech. A God of passion, of hatred, of revenge, of affection, of repentance; a God who made mistakes:—in other words, an immense and powerful man.

Note: as before, the following is an excerpt chosen by my friend Julian Haydon from an 84 page paper written in 1879 by Robert Ingersoll. Says Haydon, "There were some Christians who were beginning to reject a talking serpent in favor of allegorical explanations; but there were millions who regarded every word in the Bible as holy fact. Ingersoll was contending with the latter. His tactic is to recount the story as told; drive home the clear meaning; allow the impossibilities and contradictions to speak for themselves; and draw stinging conclusions."

Evolution - don't throw the baby out with the bath water

I was having a discussion about evolution over on a thread at Skeptic Blogs, a case of someone, not necessarily a denier, thinking there were genuine issues with evolution that needed answering. I answered his five points with ease - some typical misconceptions. But it did make me think about the epistemology of Creationists and evolution deniers; something which I have thought about before and want to share (it is lifted from my latest Skeptic Blogs post).

I was having a discussion about evolution over on another thread of a post I made from the other day. After explaining a few misconceptions and showing that evolution really does have a good smorgasbord of evidence to support it as a theory in a way that promotes bewilderment in the face of denial.

It reminded me of this issue with denial:

Denial of evolution, usually from a presupposed position of theistic necessity (very few atheists deny evolution!), comes in two shapes:

Quote of the Day, By Robert Ingersoll

If Christ was in fact God, he knew all the future.

Before Him like a panorama moved the history yet to be. He knew how his words would be interpreted.

He knew what crimes, what horrors, what infamies, would be committed in his name. He knew that the hungry flames of persecution would climb around the limbs of countless martyrs. He knew that thousands and thousands of brave men and women would languish in dungeons in darkness, filled with pain.

He knew that his church would invent and use instruments of torture; that his followers would appeal to whip and fagot, to chain and rack. He saw the horizon of the future lurid with the flames of the auto da fe.

Biblical Discussions Are Notoriously Manufactured

Earlier I had said that written out discussions are notoriously manufactured. I said that in reference to Randal Rauser's book, but it's hard to escape the conclusion that all of them are to some degree (barring audio or video-taping). This is especially true when one side of a particular debate gets to write them. Now for the Bible lesson of today. Read the chapter I've reproduced below from Luke's Gospel. Have you ever actually seen religious debates like the ones in this chapter, where one side (Jesus) repeatedly and conclusively stumped the other side? I haven't. It's manufactured. Don't trust it to represent what actually happened. Hint: The Pharisees and Sadducees were not convinced, I guarantee it, and they had rejoinders which were never written down by the gospel writers. The Bible is a biased book that needs corroboration at every turn, and it lacks it.

Wannabe Christian Apologists, Tackle This Book!

I recently received Howard Bloom's massive new book, The God Problem: How a Godless Universe Creates. It looks like a real intellectual feast, although I've only skim-read it at this point. You can look inside the book at Amazon to see for yourselves. Bloom's central question is how the cosmos creates without a creator. Even if you disagree with his thesis there are startling insights and gems for thought that will probably stun you. For everyone interested in such a question on both sides of our debates this is sure to be essential reading.

A Typical Discussion With a Christian

In homage to Randal Rauser's book The Swedish Atheist, the Scuba Diver and Other Apologetic Rabbit Trails, which is set in a conversational tone, let me do the same from my perspective. I have but a few minutes right now so this could be bettered, and these type of written out discussions are notoriously manufactured *cough* *cough*. But let Smoe represent a Christian and Joe a non-believer.

Give Drs. Rauser and Marshall a Big Welcome!

Christian apologists Drs. Randal Rauser and David Marshal seem to have conspired together to comment here as a tag team in a wrestling match against me at DC. Why? Because I have "a big audience," said Rauser in a comment, an audience of atheists, agnostics and skeptics. And so it seems with Marshall as well. Give them a big warm DC welcome. No, seriously, I welcome them. Now I don't want to be over-run with Christian apologists, but I suppose they will be met with more atheists who want to debate them over the issues that divide us. So I would welcome this too. Just be careful when it comes to my involvement. Don't assume that if they have the last word that I cannot answer them, and don't expect me to have the time to answer them either, since I now have a second job (I had told my readers this might be necessary for a long time, and the time has come. I'm tired of living on a meager income). I'd like to say some additional things about this development, if it's something that will continue into the future (and of this I don't know).

David Marshall's Failed Attempt to Argue Against the OTF

It's not just me who thinks he fails. So does the A-Unicornist. I previously had tried disabusing Marshall of his arguments right here but to no avail. Now he even wants to debate me on it!

An Index for Dr. Jaco Gericke's Writings Here at DC

If you admire Jaco's scholarship like I do, you may want to read his posts here at DC. Just click. They appear from the most recent ones to the oldest. Enjoy. [First posted 7/15/10]

Dr. Peter Boghossian on NPTR: "Faith is a Cognitive Sickness"

Listen to internet radio with NationalProgressiveTalkRadio on Blog Talk Radio

An Open Letter To Dr. Randal Rauser

Randal Rauser is a test case for how Christian apologists operate. So here is my open letter to him based on all of our dealings.

Dr. Rauser, I've concluded that you are just playing games, intellectual games, head games. You say you want to engage the non-believer and so you initiated a book with me to show that you do. But you don't listen. Of that I am sure.

My Response to Dr. Rauser's Criticisms

About a year ago Dr. Randal Rauser wrote a series of reviews on chapters for The End of Christianity, an anthology I edited. He wasn’t the only one who did so and I lacked the energy to respond to them all at that time. I don’t feel the need to do so now either. Intelligent readers can decide for themselves. The problem is that most Christians will read Christian reviews of my books without actually reading what I and other atheist authors actually said, which is unfair and prejudicial. I’ll place my books up against any Christian reviewer of them, but you must read them to see for yourself. Then Christians can see how contorted the reasoning must be in order to defend what I consider to be indefensible. Nonetheless, I will oblige Randal who asked me to take a look at what he wrote, only in so far as he offered criticisms of what I said in it. Other authors can do so if they like banging their heads against the wall, like I apparently do. ;-) Here goes:

Quote of the Day, by B_R_Deadite99

"Believing is easy, thinking is hard."

Is There Any Evidence For Christianity At All? A Review.

Here's the evidence. Are you ready? Christians have the argument from ignorance which is a known informal fallacy, that is, the as yet unexplainable mysteries of existence. Then you have private subjective anecdotal religious experiences, something every believer claims to have, which basically nullifies that subjective private evidence. Then you have historical evidence from the ancient pre-scientific superstitious past. Historical evidence is paltry evidence indeed, especially when it comes to the ancient superstitious past. Am I missing anything? Christians basically got nothing, nothing substantial that is. Not in comparison to science. All Christians do is attack science at this point which is a mark of a deluded person. Who in their right mind would not see this as it is? There is no parity between the "evidence" to believe and the evidence that causes me to disbelieve, at all.

So Far So Good, a Review of SBs and a Clarification

Our new Skeptic Blogs Network has gotten off to a great start with 45,000 pageviews in 15 days. This is only the start. We have 13 excellent bloggers and 39 more applicants to join us, some of which are really good ones. In the next couple of weeks or more we’ll have some very exciting news to share so stay tuned, visit often, and subscribe so you don’t miss a thing. We think we’re about to blow the doors off this thing with the changes and explode into your living rooms. Okay, Okay, I get a bit excited. ;-)

People have asked me that since I now blog in two places, at my flagship Blog, Debunking Christianity (DC), and also at Skeptic Blogs (SBs), how do I plan on doing this? We’ll as Tevye says in the Fiddler on the Roof, “I don’t know. But it’s a tradition.” Actually, I have an idea.

Quote of the Day, by GearHedEd

I literally haven't prayed in decades, and my life is no worse for wear than anyone else's...Blasphemy is a victimless crime.

Why I Am Justified in Telling God What To Do?

How dare I demand that God gives me what I need to believe? How dare I tell him how he should reveal himself to me? How dare I question the reasonableness of revealing himself in the pre-scientific past such that I must accept what ancient people claimed to have seen in a remote part of the world, or be condemned to hell if I don't? How dare I disbelieve because of the so-called mysteries of an eternal three-in-one God, who became incarnate, and who died for my sins, even though none of these doctrines make any rational sense at all.

Well I do dare to demand better of God, if he exists. That's the point. How am I to know he exists when his lack of divine forethought led to massive slaughter among Christians themselves over the stupidest of doctrinal trifles that if he had foreseen them and had even average communication skills he could have averted? Or, he could have told us more important things than what to do with our penises and vaginas, by giving us the knowledge to make vaccines and anesthesia for surgeries?

Why do I demand better things? It's simple:

If God created me as a reasonable human being, then I can doubt the reasonableness of a God who fails to give me what I need to believe as a reasonable human being.

If God created me as human being who seeks sufficient evidence to believe, then I can demand that he gives me the sufficient evidence I need to believe.

Connect the dots.

Of course, maybe he doesn't want reasonable people? Who knew? ;-) But then, why am I who I am? Still, if that's the case then he could snap his omnipotent fingers and take away my critical thinking skills so I would believe as others do. I did at one time. Then I grew a brain, just as ex-Mormons, ex-Muslims, ex-Orthodox Jews, ex-Scientologists and others did. ;-)

Emotionally Engaged People Do Not Think Clearly At All

Christians really believe they have a personal relationship with their God. They feel certain of it. They really believe their God listens to them and in turn is communicating to them, answering their prayers. They really believe their God agrees with what they believe too, which I find to be a dangerous thing. They are emotionally engaged just like most every believer in other religions with their own gods. So consider for a moment someone who was in love. Could you say anything of a critical nature of that lover and get a rational discussion? Have you ever listened to someone who was angry? Could you say anything of a positive nature of the person that anger was directed against and get a rational discussion? Not usually in most cases. Outside of religion in mundane examples we see this with crystal clear clarity. An outsider who is not emotionally engaged can have a better view of such things because emotionally engaged people do not think clearly at all. We already know this about human beings because the brain was built haphazardly by the process of evolution. How much more so when it's emotionally engaged. But wait, there's more!

Some Mistakes of Moses By Robert Ingersoll (Continued)

First, here's a note from my friend Julian Haydon who is submitting something from Robert Ingersoll for us to read each week:

These are extracts from an 84 page paper written 1879 by Ingersoll. There were some Christians who were beginning to reject a talking serpent in favor of allegorical explanations; but there were millions who regarded every word in the Bible as holy fact. Ingersoll was contending with the latter. His tactic is to recount the story as told; drive home the clear meaning; allow the impossibilities and contradictions to speak for themselves; and draw stinging conclusions. Most of the biblical story is here omitted. Now to get to Ingersoll himself.

Dr. Matt McCormick's New Book Is Out. I Just Got My Copy!

How To Engage a Christian

Someone in my CFI online class asked me what the best strategy is for discussing faith with a Christian. What would you say? My response:

There are so many Christianities there is probably no one single way to proceed. You just have to start listening. I like to provoke at least enough doubt that they will read a book or two on it by atheists. I like to quote other Christians against each other. That has shown itself to be effective since it's not pitting their particular faith against atheism.

I like to show weaknesses in the Bible and the theology that comes from it, most notably its superstitious nature and the barbaric nature of Yahweh. My claim is that once the brain of the believer is divorced from the Bible he or she probably wouldn't believe at all.

One guy sent me a supposedly new cosmological argument for the existence of God. I responded by asking him if this is the reason he became a believer in the first place. He had to say no. So I asked him what were his initial reasons for believing in the first place, saying this question is much more important to me than anything else. He didn't like this at all. He wanted to debate this new argument of his. I asked because people who became believers in their different religions probably stated out young in their faith as taught by their parents in their respective cultures. Since the adult attitude is skepticism they ought to re-examine these reasons as an outsider or non-believer would. For if one's faith cannot be accepted by an outsider with such a perspective, then that particular God would be found condemning people for simply being born in a different culture, and that's unreasonable for a reasonable type of God.

Church Names Are Revealing

I saw a church yesterday that had this name: The Church of the True God. Yep, that was its name. Everyone else is going to hell. Church people are deluded. For the most part they all think that. This church states it with candor. Then I saw another church named "Prince of Peace Lutheran." These churches don't even know their Bibles. Exodus 15:3 "The Lord is a man of war: the Lord is his name."

A Major Second Temple Scholar Joins the Case Against the Existence of Jesus Christ

Did Jesus Exist?

Professor Davies is well known for his books, “In Search of "Ancient Israel: A Study in Biblical Origins” (now in its 2 edition) and his newest book, “Memories of Ancient Israel: An Introduction to Biblical History--Ancient and Modern”, Westminster John Knox Press, 2008.

Enjoy

24 Hour Youtube Atheist Marathon for Doctors Without Borders - Sept 8th 2012

The Youtube atheist community has raised over $100,000 for Doctors Without Borders over the past three years, and it is nearly time for their annual marathon.  It will take place the weekend of 8/9th September. Familiar faces will be appearing on the show including Aronra, Zomgitscriss, ProfMTH, C0nc0rdance, Matt Dillahunty, and Seth Andrews (The Thinking Atheist).  Here is DPRJones explaining how it works:

Thought For Today

“There are some people who can receive a truth by no other way than to have their understanding shocked and insulted.”

Carl Sandburg (January 6, 1878 – July 22, 1967)

On the Christian Doctrine of Salvation and Damnation: Fact or Faith?

We get confirmation here at DC all the time from Christians that God exists whether we atheist believe it or not! Thus, it is an affirmed fact that “God” does NOT and IS NOT based on faith . . . He exists and will judge both the good (Saved) and the bad (Damned) at the Final Judgment “according to their works:

Ockham's Razor and Christianity and why I have been scarce

I don't know if anyone has missed me, but I have become scarce around here as John, myself and the rest of the team at Skeptic Blogs have been setting up shop and getting things moving. I have migrated my old blog and revamped it over at SBs: A Tippling Philosopher. On the blog, I have guest posts from Andreas Schueler, Cody Rudisill and Aaron Adair, and accept other decent pieces from anyone else willing to contribute good sound writing to the cause.

Come join in the fun. Here is a piece I posted the other day, which I have embellished a little. Also, I hope to still contribute the odd piece here as time permits - I just thought I'd let you know what was going on.

Ockham's Razor and Christianity:

Here is a definition of Ockham’s Razor:

Ockham's Razor: the principle that entities should not be multiplied needlessly; the simplest of two competing theories is to be preferred.

The Meaninglessness of Sin

P1. If God created us as Christians claim, then God gave us “human nature.”

P2. If human nature allows us to sin, then God is to blame for the problem of evil.

C. Therefore, God is to blame for the problem of evil. Link

No Cross No Crescent, New To Skeptic Blogs

I was raised in the Islamic world...My goal in writing this blog is going to be presenting science and skepticism. I hope to bring more of an international perspective to the table and expose religious doctrines for the harmful they are, and the suffering they cause way too often for women, gays, dissenters and religious minorities. I wish to bring to light the religious roots of some of violent conflicts around the world causing graves tragedies and loss of life, as I think that this is a very serious issue that gets next to no attention in the media. From the threat the rise of dominionist and christian reconstructionists poses to US democracy, to plight of women in Afghanistan accused of “sexual crimes” under Islamic Sharia, I hope to make the issues visible, as the traditional media have always been giving religion the kind of deference it doesn’t deserve and has never earned. Link