For Discussion: What is a “New Atheist”?

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At the annual meeting of the SBL Hector Avalos argued the distinguishing characteristic of the New Atheist was a secular apocalyptic, that is, a focus on the dangers of religion in an age of weapons of mass destruction. Tom Flynn, editor of Free Inquiry and The New Encyclopedia of Unbelief recently argued there is nothing new with the New Atheism. Then (believe this or not) some people think my Outsider Test for Faith (OTF) is "Not quite new, but not old either…Just atheist." But I'm here to tell everyone that what may really distinguish a so-called New Atheist from an Old Atheist is the moral perspective found in Sam Harris's book The Moral Landscape, which Richard Carrier shares in the last chapter for the forthcoming anthology, The End of Christianity. In any case, what do you think?

Thom Stark on Paul Copan's Apologetics

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So that Christians are better prepared to defend the Bible, I would like to offer a lesson on biblical apologetics. Over the summer, I have been reading biblical apologists incessantly, feeding off their every word. Along the way, I’ve learned a trick or two on how to defend the Bible. Today’s lesson is brought to you courtesy of Paul Copan, professor of philosophy and ethics at Palm Beach Atlantic University and author of When God Goes To Starbucks: A Guide To Everyday Apologetics.

Copan shows us how to defeat accusations that Yahweh is a moral monster with a few simple moves. The Copan motto is: selectivity spells success. All you have to do to defend the Bible and defeat your opponents is to use the evidence selectively. Selective readings of the evidence are the quickest and simplest way to defend the truth of God’s Word and beat down any of God’s hostile accusers. Enjoy reading more.

Thom Stark: "I think every Christian should be paying attention to Loftus..."

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That's pretty cool for him to say that, I think. He goes on to say: "...even, if not especially, when we don’t like the way he talks and what he has to say." You see, a problem originated when I highly recommended Stark's forthcoming book, The Human Faces of God. I had written:
The only reason evangelicals still exist is because most of them simply do not read. Those who do read don't read works like his. The few who do read works like his don't do so to learn anything. They already have their blinders on from a few years of indoctrination in an evangelical college of their choice. In my opinion when it comes to understanding biblical scholarship the phrase "educated evangelical" is an oxymoron.
Is this rhetoric? Nope. I meant it. It's now the quote of the day!

The Jesus in the Gospels Never Existed!

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[Written by John W. Loftus] Yep, that's right. It comes from something that mythicist Steven Carr recently wrote:

There's a New Kid On the Block, Thom Stark, So Watch Out Now

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Look at the advanced praise for Thom Stark's book, The Human Faces of God: What Scripture Reveals When It Gets God Wrong (forthcoming with Wipf & Stock Publishers). This is some very good stuff, reminiscient of James Barr's book Beyond Fundamentalism. The only reason evangelicals still exist is because most of them simply do not read. Those who do read don't read works like his. The few who do read works like his don't do so to learn anything. They already have their blinders on from a few years of indoctrination in an evangelical college of their choice. In my opinion when it comes to understanding biblical scholarship the phrase "educated evangelical" is an oxymoron.

Atheism is at the Heart of Science

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Hendy, who comments at DC, is struggling with what to believe. Anyone care to help him out? He's welcoming your advice. For me agnosticism is the default position and that's where he seems to be right now. I could wish we would all be as intellectually honest with the evidence. But once we admit no supernatural beings exist and that no supernatural explanations are reasonable, such an agnostic (non-knower) is actually an atheist (non-theist), and that's all anyone needs to be, for at that point he trusts the sciences rather than faith to tell him what to think. David Eller makes the case that atheism is at the heart of science. Good luck Hendy.

Why Are There Natural Explanations For Everything?

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Perhaps you Christians can suggest reasons why a God like yours created the universe and man in such a way that there are natural explanations for why we exist, how we think, who we are, and why we behave as we do. As far as I know there are natural explanations for everything you claim a supernatural deity did. You don't think these explanations are good ones, okay, but they exist and they persuade many if not most scientists working in those fields.

Why then is it that your God created this world as he did and revealed himself as he has done that are indistinguishable from him not creating the universe or revealing himself at all? This is what I want to know. In fact, why does reasonable nonbelief exist at all?

Extreme Tourists Encounter Extreme Superstition

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Bart Willruth, a former team member at DC (look him up), sent me an essay to publish below. Looks like he's read my book. Enjoy

Quote of the Day by Chuck O'Connor

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This goes into the humor department, lol.

With Thinking Skills Like These No Wonder You Believe

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In a recent post I had written this sentence: "Joe, my goal is to change the minds of one person at a time, alone as they read my book." Then a Christian named Neal responded: "Man, your opinion of yourself is quite deluded. The idea that after Hume, Nietzsche, Comte, Marx, Engels, Popper, Russell, Sartre, Schopenhauer, Ayer, Chomski, and the list could be multiplied on and on now suddenly a second-rate atheologian like John Loftus has the arguments that will demolish Christianity once and for all is more than just hubris, it is outright self-deluded narcissism. Your estimation of your own abilities is quite exaggerated."

Does anyone know what a non-sequitur is? Neal's response is one.

Peter Phua, Writing for CFI About My Magnum Opus

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You've got to admit that had someone written such a glowing review of your book you'd be popping your buttons too--to hell with humility, that's a Christian virtue ;-). See below:

Truth? What do You Think?

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A skeptical Blogger insists he's on to something important so I decided to link to what he wrote. It's long. I have my doubts. It seems he wants to develop a rational step by step approach to reasoning with a believer. In my experience this has not worked. Believers switch topics once we corner them. In some ways that's legitimate to do because they have Bayesian background beliefs that are not presently on the table but form the background for why they think the present one on the table is more probable than not. In my experience it takes a slam dunk cumulative case dealing with all of the background beliefs that one can write about in a single readable book that refers to other tomes defending each claim.

Quote of the Day by Robert M. Price

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"What evangelical apologists are still trying to show...is that their version of the resurrection was the most compatible with accepting all the details of the gospel Easter narratives as true and non-negotiable...[D]efenders of the resurrection assume that their opponents agree with them that all the details are true, that only the punch line is in question. What they somehow do not see is that to argue thus is like arguing that the Emerald City of Oz must actually exist since, otherwise, where would the Yellow Brick Road lead?....We simply have no reason to assume that anything an ancient narrative tells us is true." The Case Against the Case for Christ, (pp. 209-210).

Quote of the Day by Sam Harris

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Consider: every devout Muslim has the same reasons for being a Muslim that you have for being a Christian. And yet you do not find their reasons compelling....Why don't you lose any sleep over whether to convert to Islam? Can you prove that Allah is not the one, true God? Can you prove that the archangel Gabriel did not visit Muhammad in his cave? Of course not. But you need not prove any of these things to reject the beliefs of Muslims as absurd. The burden is upon them to prove that their beliefs about God and Muhammad are valid. They have not done this. They cannot do this....The truth is, you know exactly what it is like to be an atheist with respect to the beliefs of Muslims. Isn't it obvious Muslims are fooling themselves? Isn't it obvious that anyone who thinks that the Koran is the perfect word of the creator of the universe has not read the book critically?...Understand that the way you view Islam is precisely the way devout Muslims view Christianity. And it is the way I view all religions." Letter to a Christian Nation (pp. 6-7).

Quote of the Day by Alvin Plantinga

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Yep, this one comes from fundamentalist Christian philosopher Alvin Plantinga, who wrote:
"To show that there are natural processes that produce religious belief does nothing, so far, to discredit it; perhaps God designed us in such a way that it is by virtue of those processes that we come to have knowledge of him. Suppose it could be demonstrated that a certain kind of complex neural stimulation could produce theistic belief. This would have no tendency to discredit religious belief....Clearly, it is possible both that there is an explanation in terms of natural processes of religious belief, and that these beliefs have a perfectly respectable epistemic status." Warranted Christian Belief (p. 145).
Why is this the quote of the day?

American Christianity is not well, and there's evidence to indicate that its condition is more critical than most realize — or at least want to admit.

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So writes William Lobdell for the LA Times today, after telling us of Anne Rice's defection from her faith. He also reported on some other interesting facts about Christians:

Paul Tobin Responds to The Infidel Delusion (Part 2)

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Part 1 can be found here. Quote of the day from Paul Tobin below:
I shake my head in wonderment when I see the evangelical mind at work.

Quote of the Day by Walter

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I have the hardest time believing that the creator of the entire cosmos put on a 'meat suit' to masquerade as a human for thirty something years just so this deity could undergo some form of blood ritual sacrifice so that the other 2/3 of his triune self could then feel good about forgiving humans for not living up to an impossible standard of perfection. Further, this deity's forgiveness is contingent upon believing in revelations and miracles that only happened in the ancient past. Any god that will only reveal "himself" in the ancient past should not be surprised nor upset that large numbers of people don't believe in him today. - Walter

Christians Must Denigrate Reason, Science and Evidence to Believe

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I've said before that most Christians must denigrate reason, the sciences and evidence in order to believe. This just in, another Christian denigrates the sciences in order to believe. I've seen believers do this time and again. But with Paul Manata it is extremely blatant. So, let me get this straight Paul, just because the social sciences don't yet "have anything remotely approaching a scientific understanding of human society" we can dismiss what they do tell us about human society, eh? Until the social sciences "predict human behavior comprehensively and reliably" there is nothing at all we can learn from them, right Paul? Balderdash! Complete and utter foolishness. Oh but wait, faith demands foolishness.

Of Lions and Dogs: They Can Remember, Have Emotions, and Feel Compassion

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Since human beings have evolved from the lower animals we would expect the lower animals to exhibit some of the traits we have developed more fully. There is plenty of evidence they can remember, have emotions, and feel compassion. They also know in limited ways that they are doing wrong. I see this in my cat every day. When we say no he throws a temper tantrum. Some dogs poop on the carpet when neglected to get our attention, if we're gone too long. This evidence bolsters the claim that morality evolved and it also presents theists with what I call "The Darwinian Problem of Evil." Why do they suffer so much if a perfectly good God exists?

The Darwinian Problem of Evil Visualized

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This is an excellent graphic video about natural evils and the problem of animal suffering that was made by Rhetorical Bullshit based on my chapter in The Christian Delusion. Just ask yourselves while watching it: 1) What did animals do to deserve their sufferings? (Hint: nothing); 2) What moral lessons are they supposed to learn from their sufferings? (Hint: none); 3) Will they all be rewarded in heaven for their sufferings? (Hint: What about parasites?); 4) Can a perfectly good God be reconciled with this amount of suffering? (Not a chance!).

Top Seven Ways Christianity is Debunked By the Sciences

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[Written by John W. Loftus] God is dead, Friedrich Nietzsche predicted it over a century ago. No, God did not die. We just came to the realization he never existed in the first place. We no longer need him to explain what needs to be explained. We now have better natural explanations of the existing phenomena. They explain more without recourse to the ad hoc theories that supernatural explanations offer believers. Theologians came to realize this in the 60's as announced on the cover of Time magazine, April 8, 1966. What killed him? The sciences.

The Top Ten Ways to Avoid Being Criticized

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[Written by John W. Loftus] After thinking about this topic may I present to you the top ten ways to avoid being criticized:

Here are Links to Several Interviews I've Done

Starting with the most recent ones to later ones:

David Pakman Interviews Me: How an Evangelical Christian Preacher Became an Atheist. March 25, 2016

I was interviewed by the Legion of Reason which included Nathan Phelps, aired September 28, 2015.

In this September 2015 interview by the Humanist Hour we talk about my upcoming book, How to Defend the Christian Faith: Advice from an Atheist.LINK.

Does Christianity Pass the Outsider Test?, Part 1 with David Marshall, aired Jan. 24, 2015, for the Unbelievable? program. I wrote a response to this podcast where I accused the host of not even trying to be fair.

Does Christianity Pass the Outsider Test?, Part 2 with David Marshall, aired Jan. 31, 2015, for the Unbelievable? program.

Bill Cunningham's interview aired in December 2014.

Fox News Radio with Alan Combs interview on November 2014.

The Filipino Freethinkers with Red Tani, on January 6, 2014.

NonTheology, about my Outsider Test for Faith, first aired August 5th 2013. We had some fun.

Reasonable Doubts Podcast, where I talk about my two most recent books, aired on June 21, 2013.

Unbelieveable Podcast with Randal Rauser, aired June 15, 2013.

The Malcontent's Gambit Interview about my book "The Outsider Test for Faith" on May 7, 2013.

Minnesota Atheist Interview about my book "The Outsider Test for Faith" on April 21, 2013.

Christian Meets World Interview, aired July 29, 2012.

"Think Atheist" Interview About My Revised WIBA Book, aired April 8th, 2012.

With Barry Lynn of Culture Shocks, on 8/16/11.

With Irreligiosophy on 8/9/11.

Think Atheist Radio Show, which aired March 27, 2011.

Minnesota Atheists, which aired March 20, 2011.

A three part interview on the Tuesday Afternoon podcast aired between January 27th and February 10th 2011.

Oklahoma Atheist podcast aired October 26, 2010.

American Freethought aired July 2, 2010.

My Interview on "Conversations From the Pale Blue Dot", aired April 28th 2010, about my book, The Christian Delusion.

My Interview on the Freedom From Religion program, aired April 3rd, 2010.

My Interview on the Enlightenment Show, September 9th, 2009.

My Interview with Minnesota Atheists. Talk #0071, May 24, 2009.

The Things That Matter Most, March 1, 2009.

CFI's Point of Inquiry, January 30, 2009.

My Interview on the Freedom From Religion program, November 15, 2008.

The Infidel Guy Show, November 14th, 2008.

CFI of Indiana Freethought, September 28th, 2008.

Robert M. Price and I are interviewed together on The Enlightenment Show of Freethought Ft. Wayne, August 17, 2008.

The Friendly Atheist, June 26, 2008.

By Infidelis Maximus, July 2, 2007.

People Believe and Defend That Which They Prefer to Be True
And the Facts Won't Change Their Minds

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It’s one of the great assumptions underlying modern democracy that an informed citizenry is preferable to an uninformed one....If people are furnished with the facts, they will be clearer thinkers and better citizens. If they are ignorant, facts will enlighten them. If they are mistaken, facts will set them straight. In the end, truth will [win] out. Won’t it?

Maybe not. Recently, a few political scientists have begun to discover a human tendency deeply discouraging to anyone with faith in the power of information. It’s this: Facts don’t necessarily have the power to change our minds. In fact, quite the opposite. In a series of studies in 2005 and 2006, researchers at the University of Michigan found that when misinformed people, particularly political partisans, were exposed to corrected facts in news stories, they rarely changed their minds. In fact, they often became even more strongly set in their beliefs. Facts, they found, were not curing misinformation. Like an underpowered antibiotic, facts could actually make misinformation even stronger.

TOP 16 WAYS TO GET A WOMAN/ WIFE ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE

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This list was sent to me by Ed Babinski:

Contra Victor Reppert on the Emotional Appeal of Christianity

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Vic had written:
I understand the emotional appeal of Christianity. I also understand what isn't so emotionally appealing about it, such as the claim that I am a sinner whose actions offend the creator of the universe. If I were to invent a religion that appealed to me emotionally, I wouldn't pick Christianity.

Paul Tobin Responds to The Infidel Delusion (Part 1)

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When John Loftus informed me that there is a “book length rebuttal” available on the net to The Christian Delusion I was expecting an intellectual challenge but instead what I found amounts to no more than relatively lightweight and easily dismissed assertions.

Triablogue’s Moral Relativism Exposed

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Killing children could sometimes be obligatory, according to Triablogue.

People Believe and Defend That Which They Prefer to Be True

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I take it that the title to this post is uncontestable and undeniably true from what we know about human beings. The ONLY responses I have gotten from believers are these two: 1) The Ad Hominem Tu Quoque Fallacy which does nothing to address the point (see link); and 2) "No this does not apply to me when I assess the truth claims of Christianity because I am the exception to the rule." [How can all of them be the exception to the rule if this is the rule?]

What a load of bunk, oh but wait, what's the title to my Blog again? Ahhhhh, yes.

Dr. Valerie Tarico Responds to the Triabloguers

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She does so in the form of a letter to me:
John, you have asked me to respond to a critique at the site, Triablogue, of my chapter, “Christian Belief Through the Lens of Cognitive Science” for The Christian Delusion. Reading the critique, I am struck, primarily, by the perception that the reviewers, in attempting to state their case, overstate mine. Psychology is a profession focused not on possibilities but on practicalities – not on how things might function in an abstract, philosophical sense, but rather on what we can know about how they do function in the ordinary lives of ordinary humans (and sometimes other species). Psychology asks and attempts to answer a set of questions regarding the contingencies–-replicable cause and effect relationships—that govern people’s lives. At this level of analysis, there is a tentative but useful distinction between knowing and not knowing.

People Believe and Defend What They Prefer to Be True

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People believe and defend what they prefer to be true. This is an obvious and non-controversial fact. That's who we are as human beings. That's what we human beings do. That's what psychological studies have repeatedly shown us over and over.

Richard Dawkins: If Science Worked Like Religion

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I've been faulted for suggesting that the Outsider Test for Faith (OTF) has force primarily against religious faiths. I think this because of the nature of them, how they were first adopted, the evidence (or lack thereof) that can decide between them, and so forth. To see why, check out the video below by Richard Dawkins. The sciences are in an entirely different league than faith:

The Outsider Test for Faith Visualized

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[Written by John W. Loftus] I've argued for the Outsider Test for Faith (OTF) but most believers just don't get it. For people like that I've made a playlist of five short videos so they can see what they refuse to see because they're blinded by faith.

Amateur Hour at Triablogue

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Triablogue’s amateurs have compiled a supposed refutation of The Christian Delusion. Some uninformed bloggers are already hailing it as a “massive” and definitive refutation. Yet, even the most superficial look at Triablogue’s efforts reveals yet another instance of amateurs who don’t know enough to know that they don’t know enough about the topics they discuss.

Being merciful to DC’s readers, I will not provide an exhaustive catalog of Triablogue’s factual errors, illogical arguments, or misreadings of my chapters. I will provide a few samples within these categories:

A. The Credentials Card
B. Ill-read Reviewers
C. Misrepresented arguments
D. Misunderstood Arguments
E. The Ridiculous and the Mundane

Contra Paul Manata on the OTF (Part 2)

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This is the second part of my response to Paul Manata's criticisms of the Outsider Test for Faith (OTF). Part 1 can be read here. Again, I'll not repeat myself. In this part I'll examine where Paul also claims it's not a sound argument. Really? Let's look at this.

Contra Paul Manata on the OTF (Part 1)

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On February 11, 2006 I first proposed the Outsider Test for Faith (OTF) in response to something Paul Manata wrote. I think this is instructive. There is nothing quite like discussing/debating the issues that divide us. We learn from doing so. Most of the time it helps me understand how to make a better case against Christianity as it did on that day. So Manata and I have a history, he cursing the day he provoked me to propose the test, and me further refining it from additional criticisms. Along the way Manata has repeatedly tried unsuccessfully to disabuse me of this argument. So here he comes again with more failed arguments. Let's see about them.

Contra Steve Hays and Jason Engwer on the OTF

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I'm in the process of assessing Triablogue's online book against The Christian Delusion. Since I don't want to repeat myself if you haven't already done so read my first response.

On Assessing Triablogue's Review of "The Christian Delusion"

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I've had enough contact with Triablogue authors to know that I will never get in the last word. And I do not consider them honest in dealing with me. They will quote things out of context and misrepresent me because as Calvinists they do not think I deserve any respect at all. After all, if their God has foreordained me to hell then they have the right to heap additional abuse on me, and they have done so (this is such a nice version of Christianity developed by angry men for angry men, isn't it?). In any case they have written an online book of 257 pages against The Christian Delusion (TCD) so I think some response is needed, especially since I'm seeing links pop up all over the net linking to what they wrote.

Is God Necessary for Morality? Hell NO!

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Just see what happened to William Lane Craig when he debated Louise Antony and then Shelly Kagan on this topic. He lost both times.

Then don't miss Edwin Curley's talk, My Ways Are Not Your Ways: The Character of the God of the Hebrew Bible. Watch it and tell me with a straight face that the God of the Bible is the objective standard of morality. Yeah, right.

I've written some posts on this topic myself to be found here under the rubric "Atheism, Christianity and Morality."

Who Says One Book Can't Change Your Beliefs?

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Previously I had asked whether reading one book could change a person's beliefs (#10 in that link). Apparently it can (well two anyway):
Hey John, just wanted you to know that I threw 20 years of Fundamentalist Baptist Bible teachings away because of your books. Thank you! Your books introduced me to the truth that there were no answers and that Christianity was absurd to the core! I was just more embarrassed that I didn't see what you saw, but that's what happens when you go to Christian Schools, Churches, and Camps....you only get one side of the picture! --Tim Zajac on Facebook.

The Dilemma for Christian Apologists

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Christians will object to the following dilemma, no doubt. On the one hand, if they cannot explain how a miraculous event took place, outsiders will deny it happened at all. On the other hand, if they can explain how it might have occurred, then outsiders can say it’s no longer a miracle. All I can say here is that this is the unavoidable nature of the case when it comes to reported miracles in the pre-scientific superstitious historical past. Outsiders need sufficient evidence of miracles in today’s world to accept the Christian faith. Without this evidence the Christian apologist will always have a near impossible time defending his faith, and as such, I think he should simply abandon this attempt. Without present-day evidence or present day miracles, Christianity probably cannot be adequately defended at all. [First posted 8/12/07]

Dr. Avalos on Accreditation and Jim West.

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This is his response to Jim West's ranting against accreditation seeking colleges. Enjoy

Positive Thinking For An Atheist?

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I was asked on Facebook about positive thinking for an atheist. Here's my advice:
When it comes to positive thoughts you must learn to believe in yourself. Repeat after me: "I am an important person." "I can achieve my dreams." "I can make a difference." Say it every day a few times per day. You will come to believe what you say. So say it. Then dream big dreams. Don't be afraid to fail. You will fail from time to time. But you will learn for the next time. So dare to fail. And do not listen to the naysayers if you know they're wrong. They are a dime a dozen. You will never achieve anything unless you try. Find like-minded people to learn from who believe in you and hang out with them.

There Was No Worldwide Flood, By Robert R. Cargill, Ph.D.

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Christian Bible thumpers need to listen to their own scholars.
There was no worldwide flood. Simply put: there is no evidence whatsoever for a worldwide flood. In other words, it’s impossible. It is time for Christians to admit that some of the stories in Israel’s primordial history are not historical. It is ok to concede that these stories were crafted in a pre-scientific period and were designed to offer ethical answers to questions of why and not questions of how. Link.

We Are Approaching the Golden Age of Atheism

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Atheist author David Mills argues in this 47 minute video that there are ten reasons why we are approaching a "Golden Age of Atheism."

Have You Been De-Baptized? Edwin Kagan of American Atheists on Nightline

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What do you think of Kagan's claim: "Atheists have no chance whatsoever of prevailing in a direct confrontation with believers. There are far too many [believers]." Does it resemble what David Eller said: "Christians are not easily argued out of their religion because...they are not ordinarily argued into it in the first place." Richard Carrier also chimed in on the use of ridicule.

A Slave to Incompetence: The Truth Behind David Marshall’s Research on Slavery by Dr. Hector Avalos

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Since the rise of the “New Atheism” there have been many Christian apologists who think that they have defeated the arguments of the New Atheists such as Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens. A few of these apologists are seasoned theologians and scholars. Others are what I call “hack” writers, who basically cut-and-paste material found in secondary sources, but who do not: 1) check the accuracy of the secondary sources; 2) have the competence to check those sources independently and directly, even if they wish to do so. The goal of hack writing is to publish something quickly and with little effort and so these books are often very thin bibliographically.

Such a hack writer is David Marshall, author of The Truth Behind the New Atheism: Responding to the Emerging Challenges to God and Christianity (Eugene Oregon: Harvest House Publishers, 2007). To illustrate our point, we shall examine almost every sentence in a section titled, “Jesus Frees Slaves,” and found on pages 144 to 148 of that book.

More Proof People Defend What They Prefer to Be True.
Case in Point: Jim West Rants Against College Accreditation

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Jim (aka "Where's Waldo") West usually has the number one ranked Blog among SBL's Bibliobloggers every month. This is supposed to mean something I guess. In a post he submitted for The Bible and Interpretation West rants against the "exploitative" nature of college accreditation companies. But guess what? He has a degree from an unaccredited college and teaches for one too, oh my! Here we see a person who should know better arguing against that which he doesn't have simply because he doesn't have it. Why am I not surprised? I've never heard an educated person ranting against an education. Only the uneducated do so. And only an unaccredited person/teacher would do the same thing with regard to accreditation. I commented further there. Sheesh.

Could One Book Change What You Think?

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Cobourg Atheist runs a nice website from Canada which has the equivalent number of readers as mine does. He featured an essay of mine on dealing with atheist books. While you're there take a look around.